Phil Davis: "Wrestling is a much stronger art form than Brazilian jiu-jitsu."

TrollsmasherTrollsmasher Posts: 385Free
You can't disagree with him. If you look at all the top guys they all have a strong wrestling background.

Their hasn't been many UFC champions that r pure BJJ guys since the very early day's of MMA, but now everyone knows how to defend the submissions so they aren't as effective.

Their is a reason why everyone says the best background to have coming into MMA is wrestling.

Source: http://fiveknuckles.com/mma-news/Phil-Davis-Wrestling-is-a-much-stronger-art-form-than-Brazilian-jiu-jitsu.html
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  • OzprideOzpride Posts: 4,057Free
    First of all, I'd appreciate if you would man up and admit you're a pleb who works for the rubbish site 5N.

    Second of all, screw wrestling. It's stronger, agreed, but there is no 'art form' to it in any way possible and mr wankerful is a complete turd for claiming it






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  • BruteDionBruteDion Posts: 10,489Free
    That's stupid...u say there has not been many pure bjj champs?...there has been not many pure wrestler either

    All the wrestler who were champs also trained bjj....Brock lesnar is the best example of Davis flawed logic

    Brock lost to Mir cuz he didn't know the basics of how to defend a heel hook and its set up....but once he started to bjj and its defence of it he was able to rape the mir who has almost no wrestling....lesnar was only able to beat mir cuz he knew how to not put himself in a bad spot again
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  • BruteDionBruteDion Posts: 10,489Free
    I have said it be4....pure bjj with no knowledge of wrestling > pure wrestling with no knowledge of bjj....the early ufc proved this

    It's just in this modern day the wrestler have taken to learning bjj to help defeat it...the top bjj schools to this day do not wanna learn even the basics of wrestling and its thier down fall

    **** they didn't even liked heel hooks and banned them until rickson had to use one to win a torney and onky then did they accept it

    Bjj is the slowest growing in modern mma today and its hurting them
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    What do you get when you take A.Silva's clinch game + Mark Hunt's Iron Chin + Mushy Lady Parts?

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  • SykloneSyklone Posts: 63Ultimate
    He's right, wrestling is a fantastic way of controlling your opponent so you don't have to fight.
  • ijosefijosef Posts: 1,640Free
    I think the various styles are slowly melding together, so someone training in true mixed martial arts will learn "grappling," which will be a variety of techniques from wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Sambo, catch & folkstyle wrestling, etc.

    I think the last pure wrestling versus pure BJJ we saw was Royce Gracie versus Dan Severn. Severn was able to control Gracie for 15 minutes until Royce finally sunk in a triangle choke and tapped him out. If it had been the modern three five minute round format, Severn would've won an extremely boring lay and pray decision. If he'd had some basic BJJ defense, he could've won that fight.

    Echoing what's been said above, a highly skilled wrestler with a good grasp on basic submission defense can be a huge obstacle for someone who is still stuck on pure BJJ.
  • TrollsmasherTrollsmasher Posts: 385Free
    ijosef said:

    I think the various styles are slowly melding together, so someone training in true mixed martial arts will learn "grappling," which will be a variety of techniques from wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Sambo, catch & folkstyle wrestling, etc.

    I think the last pure wrestling versus pure BJJ we saw was Royce Gracie versus Dan Severn. Severn was able to control Gracie for 15 minutes until Royce finally sunk in a triangle choke and tapped him out. If it had been the modern three five minute round format, Severn would've won an extremely boring lay and pray decision. If he'd had some basic BJJ defense, he could've won that fight.

    Echoing what's been said above, a highly skilled wrestler with a good grasp on basic submission defense can be a huge obstacle for someone who is still stuck on pure BJJ.

    very well said. I agree 100%
  • BruteDionBruteDion Posts: 10,489Free
    edited January 2013
    It's a shame really...BJJ as a whole would get more cred if its top schools would bring in some wrestling to the level of strong wrestling gyms (or its fighters) are willing to bring bjj in

    There is a good list of strong wrestlers who are a threat to sub guys...but how many top bjj guys are known to have sick takedowns?....only like Jacare or Palhares have decent TD
    Post edited by BruteDion on
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    What do you get when you take A.Silva's clinch game + Mark Hunt's Iron Chin + Mushy Lady Parts?

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  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Posts: 1,234Free
    Phil Davis wasn't feeling very artistic with Rashad I guess.

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  • classicboxerclassicboxer Posts: 11,823Free
    The number 1 fighter in the world today has weak wrestling.
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  • He chose his words carefully. Notice how he said something like "art form" and not martial art. Its because wrestling is not a a martial art aka actually fighting.
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  • creep_bbcreep_bb Posts: 121Free
    edited January 2013
    No it's not.Wrestling can only work if the guy using it IS trained in BJJ so as to avoid submissions. If not, he'd get tapped. Just out of the top of my head... look at Sonnen and look at GSP/Fitch/Weidman/Barnett
    Post edited by creep_bb on
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  • cromwellcromwell Posts: 655Free
    the whole point of being a mixed martial artist is exactly that, you have to be trained in all aspects. you can't just go in with pure bjj, you cant go in with just wrestling, you can't go in with just striking, you would be a fool not to have every weapon available to you. davis can't tell me he has never trained bjj.
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  • SykloneSyklone Posts: 63Ultimate
    whoever is stalling (guy on bottom holding top guy in place desparately to avoid fighting from his back or guy on top holding guy on bottom in position to prevent having to fight) should be deducted a point whenever there is a standup.
  • V3djV3dj Posts: 15Free
    Its MMA no one with one skill set only lasts long everyone trains all aspects of mma these days some are better at wrestling some better at bjj or striking but without the basics at least of all elements then you wont last long nowadays as there are no secrets anymore...
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  • BruteDionBruteDion Posts: 10,489Free
    cromwell said:

    the whole point of being a mixed martial artist is exactly that, you have to be trained in all aspects. you can't just go in with pure bjj, you cant go in with just wrestling, you can't go in with just striking, you would be a fool not to have every weapon available to you. davis can't tell me he has never trained bjj.

    Your right....his head coach is Lloyd Irving....he's a BJJ back ground coach...Lloyd is always in his corner
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    What do you get when you take A.Silva's clinch game + Mark Hunt's Iron Chin + Mushy Lady Parts?

    A: Cat Zingano....the UFC's true #1 women's contender

    < img src =photo BD2_zps23b2f3d9.jpg>
  • Gabri1985Gabri1985 Manchester, England Posts: 7,695Free
    bjj is the weakest for
    BruteDion said:

    cromwell said:

    the whole point of being a mixed martial artist is exactly that, you have to be trained in all aspects. you can't just go in with pure bjj, you cant go in with just wrestling, you can't go in with just striking, you would be a fool not to have every weapon available to you. davis can't tell me he has never trained bjj.

    Your right....his head coach is Lloyd Irving....he's a BJJ back ground coach...Lloyd is always in his corner
    i hope Davis gets another beat down.
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  • OmoplataypusOmoplataypus BostonPosts: 4,557Free
    Going back a couple of cards, did anybody see that Sambo champ German suplex his opponent 3 times in a row, with the 3rd one basically Koing the guy. That was art.
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  • SykloneSyklone Posts: 63Ultimate
    ^ yep Rustam Khabilov. Was awesome.
  • YerboYerbo Posts: 2,515Free
    He's probably right. But I'd rather watch 2 BJJers rolling than 2 wrestlers dry-humping any day. And that's coming from a former wrestler hah.
  • V3djV3dj Posts: 15Free

    ^ yep Rustam Khabilov. Was awesome.

    So was amazing highlight of that card
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  • OmoplataypusOmoplataypus BostonPosts: 4,557Free
    That guy was like a helpless little baby in Rustam's arms. The technique on display in that fight was beautiful. Boy do I love me some wrasslin slams.
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  • V3djV3dj Posts: 15Free
    yep he was tossed like the preverbial salad
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  • OmoplataypusOmoplataypus BostonPosts: 4,557Free
    Back on topic, wouldn't the best BJJer beat the best wrastler? Even if you manage to take the guy down, slam him, whatever, your still in his world of ground fighting. Even with a basic understanding of BJJ the wrestler would still get subbed in a heartbeat by the BEST BJJer.
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  • V3djV3dj Posts: 15Free
    if its just pure wreslting vs bjj then bjj woould win as u can finish with bjj
    Fact Silva GOAT end of....
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  • OmoplataypusOmoplataypus BostonPosts: 4,557Free
    V3dj said:

    if its just pure wreslting vs bjj then bjj woould win as u can finish with bjj

    But you could win a decision with control via wrestling.
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  • V3djV3dj Posts: 15Free
    like chael vs anderson 1?
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  • OmoplataypusOmoplataypus BostonPosts: 4,557Free
    edited January 2013
    Not saying wrestling is better, just replying to the point that BJJ would win because you can finish. How many times have we seen wrestlers win by completely controlling the fight, thus not needing the finish. Might not be exciting or pretty, but it can and does get the W.
    Post edited by Omoplataypus on
    !!! WAR KELGOAT
    !!! WAR MAIA
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    !!! WAR WEIDMAN  

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    "GOAT List:
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  • Gabri1985Gabri1985 Manchester, England Posts: 7,695Free
    Wrestlers are becoming more and more dominate because it is the best base to start mma with. put it this way Maia is meant to be one of the best bjj guys in mma yet he got destroyed by Silva, Sonnen with his wrestling was 30 seconds away from beating him.

    Wrestlers decide where the fight takes place and that is a huge advantage.
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  • BruteDionBruteDion Posts: 10,489Free

    V3dj said:

    if its just pure wreslting vs bjj then bjj woould win as u can finish with bjj

    But you could win a decision with control via wrestling.
    See that's were people get it wrong....a wrestler can only do that if he knows bjj aswell...no wrestler with no knowlege of bjj can survive on the ground with a pure bjj guy
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    What do you get when you take A.Silva's clinch game + Mark Hunt's Iron Chin + Mushy Lady Parts?

    A: Cat Zingano....the UFC's true #1 women's contender

    < img src =photo BD2_zps23b2f3d9.jpg>
  • Little_KangLittle_Kang Posts: 17,800Moderator, Ultimate
    BruteDion said:

    V3dj said:

    if its just pure wreslting vs bjj then bjj woould win as u can finish with bjj

    But you could win a decision with control via wrestling.
    See that's were people get it wrong....a wrestler can only do that if he knows bjj aswell...no wrestler with no knowlege of bjj can survive on the ground with a pure bjj guy
    I blame the **** judging system. Guard work should be scored differently for everything.

    full guard should be 50/50. So someone landed nice elblws from the bottom that can cut and **** should be scored as normal as regular elbows. Then submission attempts or sweep attemptd c
    should be marked too.

    half guard should be 70/30 for top guy

    this whole top game ideal is crap
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