A Little Thing About Frank Mir

Megasoup

Alright, full disclosure: I'm not really a fan, nor am I a critic. I like any fight he's in though. He's exciting and you know it. Anyway,I have compiled a small sampling of Heavyweights who are known for their ground game, whether it be wrestling or submission, and put their numbers of takedowns, passes and submissions next to them. I think the relationship between these two numbers (as racked up within the body of each respective fighters career in the UFC) is relevant and I'll explain why, in case it's not clear. This isn't a score based on the volume of takedowns or passes, more the likelihood that afighter can turn these into fight-ending submissions.



Brock Lesnar TD 11 Passes 14 Submissions 2

Cain Velasques TD 27 Passes 27 Submissions 2

Big Nog TD 7 Passes 16 Submissions 10

Josh Barnett TD 4 Passes 10 Submissions 4

Frank Mir TD 19 Passes 22 Submissions 20



Discuss.

classicboxer

Megasoup said:

Alright, full disclosure: I'm not really a fan, nor am I a critic. I like any fight he's in though. He's exciting and you know it. Anyway,I have compiled a small sampling of Heavyweights who are known for their ground game, whether it be wrestling or submission, and put their numbers of takedowns, passes and submissions next to them. I think the relationship between these two numbers (as racked up within the body of each respective fighters career in the UFC) is relevant and I'll explain why, in case it's not clear. This isn't a score based on the volume of takedowns or passes, more the likelihood that afighter can turn these into fight-ending submissions.



Brock Lesnar TD 11 Passes 14 Submissions 2

Cain Velasques TD 27 Passes 27 Submissions 2

Big Nog TD 7 Passes 16 Submissions 10

Josh Barnett TD 4 Passes 10 Submissions 4

Frank Mir TD 19 Passes 22 Submissions 20



Discuss.

I've always been a fan of Mir's submissions. However, after the first Big Nog fight, Mir thought he was a skilled boxer, which is false.

Megasoup

classicboxer said:

Megasoup said:

Alright, full disclosure: I'm not really a fan, nor am I a critic. I like any fight he's in though. He's exciting and you know it. Anyway,I have compiled a small sampling of Heavyweights who are known for their ground game, whether it be wrestling or submission, and put their numbers of takedowns, passes and submissions next to them. I think the relationship between these two numbers (as racked up within the body of each respective fighters career in the UFC) is relevant and I'll explain why, in case it's not clear. This isn't a score based on the volume of takedowns or passes, more the likelihood that afighter can turn these into fight-ending submissions.



Brock Lesnar TD 11 Passes 14 Submissions 2

Cain Velasques TD 27 Passes 27 Submissions 2

Big Nog TD 7 Passes 16 Submissions 10

Josh Barnett TD 4 Passes 10 Submissions 4

Frank Mir TD 19 Passes 22 Submissions 20



Discuss.

I've always been a fan of Mir's submissions. However, after the first Big Nog fight, Mir thought he was a skilled boxer, which is false.

Oh, he's not that bad! Especially for MMA. I'm sure you know how it's extremely difficult to apply boxing technique, because it requires a lot of gifts in areas that are doggone impossible to work on. Thing's like reflexes and speed are hopelessly impossible to "develop," and agility and timing are not much easier to improve upon. We all know the sad story of knockout power (fortunately for Mir, he seems to have it.) What you're left with is just practicing good, basic fundamentals, like keeping your hands up and circling out after throwing a combination; setting things up with the jab. Mir does these things.

wanderleisilva101

Are these sub attempts you're talking about? I'm still not sure what this proves Mir has fought in the ufc since his 3rd fight that's 20 fights of course he has better numbers than Nog or Barnett they have had far less fights include pride stats and Cain and Brock hardly ever look for submissions they use passes to set up ground and pound. :-??

Megasoup

I did say to not look at the numbers as scores, but more the relationship between takedowns or passes and actual submissions. Mir has a much higher percentage rate of finishing guys with a submission once the fight hits the ground. An extreme example is Cain's 27 guard passes versus his 2 submissions. Not a very good finisher (at least, by submission.) Mir, by contrast, has 22 passes which resulted in 20 submissions, which means that if he passes your guard, you're almost invariably getting tapped out.

jduk

What are you talking about with these numbers? Mir has 22 total fights, with 9 sub wins, so everything you've said is wrong. These numbers do not tell the story of a fight.

classicboxer

Megasoup said:

classicboxer said:

Megasoup said:

Alright, full disclosure: I'm not really a fan, nor am I a critic. I like any fight he's in though. He's exciting and you know it. Anyway,I have compiled a small sampling of Heavyweights who are known for their ground game, whether it be wrestling or submission, and put their numbers of takedowns, passes and submissions next to them. I think the relationship between these two numbers (as racked up within the body of each respective fighters career in the UFC) is relevant and I'll explain why, in case it's not clear. This isn't a score based on the volume of takedowns or passes, more the likelihood that afighter can turn these into fight-ending submissions.



Brock Lesnar TD 11 Passes 14 Submissions 2

Cain Velasques TD 27 Passes 27 Submissions 2

Big Nog TD 7 Passes 16 Submissions 10

Josh Barnett TD 4 Passes 10 Submissions 4

Frank Mir TD 19 Passes 22 Submissions 20



Discuss.

I've always been a fan of Mir's submissions. However, after the first Big Nog fight, Mir thought he was a skilled boxer, which is false.

Oh, he's not that bad! Especially for MMA. I'm sure you know how it's extremely difficult to apply boxing technique, because it requires a lot of gifts in areas that are doggone impossible to work on. Thing's like reflexes and speed are hopelessly impossible to "develop," and agility and timing are not much easier to improve upon. We all know the sad story of knockout power (fortunately for Mir, he seems to have it.) What you're left with is just practicing good, basic fundamentals, like keeping your hands up and circling out after throwing a combination; setting things up with the jab. Mir does these things.

He just seems to be very robotic and slow. I know boxing doesn't really work in MMA, but Mir just doesn't impress me at all when it comes to stand up.

spartacus_

jduk said:

What are you talking about with these numbers? Mir has 22 total fights, with 9 sub wins, so everything you've said is wrong. These numbers do not tell the story of a fight.

i guess he meant submissions attempt. but yeah, kinda nonsense

PunchBag

mir has good submissions but poor wrestling. if he can get the fight to the ground then theres a good chance of submission but more often than not he cant

Little_Kang

PunchBag said:

mir has good submissions but poor wrestling. if he can get the fight to the ground then theres a good chance of submission but more often than not he cant

yeah taking down wes sims and tank abotts really show how skilled he is

Megasoup

jduk said:

What are you talking about with these numbers? Mir has 22 total fights, with 9 sub wins, so everything you've said is wrong. These numbers do not tell the story of a fight.

Funny, I got these numbers from the fighter profiles on UFC's website, but you're correct. Maybe it's supposed to be "sub attempts"...but it's listed simply as "submissions." I claim no fault for my error; I went with what should have been reliable information. Pardon me, though.

najma

Lesnar: 100 fights against great fighters/former champs, 99% wins
Mir: 100 fights against bums with no ground game, 70% wins

Yeah, it's great comparing them.

jduk

Megasoup said:

jduk said:

What are you talking about with these numbers? Mir has 22 total fights, with 9 sub wins, so everything you've said is wrong. These numbers do not tell the story of a fight.

Funny, I got these numbers from the fighter profiles on UFC's website, but you're correct. Maybe it's supposed to be "sub attempts"...but it's listed simply as "submissions." I claim no fault for my error; I went with what should have been reliable information. Pardon me, though.

NEVER believe anything the UFC tells you, rookie error right there

KOOKORK

jduk said:

Megasoup said:

jduk said:

What are you talking about with these numbers? Mir has 22 total fights, with 9 sub wins, so everything you've said is wrong. These numbers do not tell the story of a fight.

Funny, I got these numbers from the fighter profiles on UFC's website, but you're correct. Maybe it's supposed to be "sub attempts"...but it's listed simply as "submissions." I claim no fault for my error; I went with what should have been reliable information. Pardon me, though.

NEVER believe anything the UFC tells you, rookie error right there

This is too pessimistic. Never is too much word in MMA.

WarWest

He's Amazin' ??

jduk

WarWest said:

He's Amazin' ??

inb4Sobercuban

classicboxer

najma said:

Lesnar: 100 fights against great fighters/former champs, 99% wins
Mir: 100 fights against bums with no ground game, 70% wins


Yeah, it's great comparing them.

Lesnar was 5-3, 62.5%

sobercuban

jduk said:

WarWest said:

He's Amazin' ??

inb4Sobercuban

^this

zaksame

The numbers like all stats are missing a key point >>>opponents.Stats can never tell you what your own eyes already see,stats are for bookies and gambling.
The HW division is and always has been just awful,i really don't care who wins one fight to the next.When you have a large circle of very mediocre fighters,anything can happen.
Tim Sylvia was a champ in the UFC,Brock walked right in from a circus side show and became champ very quickly.That same Brock also went out rather quickly,he looked terrible versus Reem who in turn looked bad to a rather average Bigfoot.A really bad division where numbers mean nothing.

jduk

zaksame said:

The numbers like all stats are missing a key point >>>opponents.Stats can never tell you what your own eyes already see,stats are for bookies and gambling.
The HW division is and always has been just awful,i really don't care who wins one fight to the next.When you have a large circle of very mediocre fighters,anything can happen.
Tim Sylvia was a champ in the UFC,Brock walked right in from a circus side show and became champ very quickly.That same Brock also went out rather quickly,he looked terrible versus Reem who in turn looked bad to a rather average Bigfoot.A really bad division where numbers mean nothing.

I don't even know if you're serious

waikru

I always liked Mir. I think he just needs to focus on improving his takedowns to get back in the title mix.

PunchBag

if he looses he might get cut