Am I The Only One Who Doesn't Like Herb Dean?

TalkLost

I've always thought he was extremely over rated as a ref and I think he stops fights way to early sometimes, the Lawler and Koscheck fight isn't the first time he's done that.

secondsout

He's been around for ages, learned a lot. Even Mazzegati had some good decisions.

Jbrahams

I find this thread quite racist

joeyp1

we have to like him because he is not white?

what if we are black, and doesnt that presuppose some kind of intrinsic white top and black bottom paradigm? which is in itself quite racist...

theres a mixed race president man.

secondsout

black & white stuff is getting really old, cut it off

joeyp1

secondsout said:

black & white stuff is getting really old, cut it off

exactly. well said. i like his profile and presence. i cant imagine winslow pulling silva out of the way of overeem.

but he gets routinely clocked for early stoppages. and not just in big fights.

the way he looks has nothing to do with it. he looks like a big athletic guy who can break up fights. outside of mccarthy, its hard to think of a ref with a better presence. the issue is with some of his decisions.

zaksame

I used to absolutely hate Dean,i thought him and Big John were rubbish as refs.In saying that i have grown to like Dean,i think he is a decent ref,even though he made a mistake in last nights fight.I would like to also add that it looked like Kos was doing the foolish thing ,sticking his face out to prove those punches did not hurt him.He should have been using more effort to get back up.

Omoplataypus

joeyp1 said:

secondsout said:

black & white stuff is getting really old, cut it off

exactly. well said. i like his profile and presence. i cant imagine winslow pulling silva out of the way of overeem.

but he gets routinely clocked for early stoppages. and not just in big fights.

the way he looks has nothing to do with it. he looks like a big athletic guy who can break up fights. outside of mccarthy, its hard to think of a ref with a better presence. the issue is with some of his decisions.

Agree but doesn't a ref have to be in a preventive mindset at times?

Herb knows the fighters. He knows that Lawler has gigantic power and he doesn't want anyone taking hard unnecessary shots.

I just think that its a fine line to walk between letting a fight continue so you dont rob the fans and protecting the guys in the cage from unwarranted damage.

Herb did a GREAT job letting that Bermudez fight go.

joeyp1

joeyp1 said:

secondsout said:

black & white stuff is getting really old, cut it off

exactly. i like his profile and presence. i cant imagine winslow pulling silva out of the way of overeem.

but he gets routinely clocked for early stoppages. and not just in big fights.

Omoplataypus said:

joeyp1 said:

secondsout said:

black & white stuff is getting really old, cut it off

exactly. well said. i like his profile and presence. i cant imagine winslow pulling silva out of the way of overeem.

but he gets routinely clocked for early stoppages. and not just in big fights.

the way he looks has nothing to do with it. he looks like a big athletic guy who can break up fights. outside of mccarthy, its hard to think of a ref with a better presence. the issue is with some of his decisions.

Agree but doesn't a ref have to be in a preventive mindset at times?

Herb knows the fighters. He knows that Lawler has gigantic power and he doesn't want anyone taking hard unnecessary shots.

I just think that its a fine line to walk between letting a fight continue so you dont rob the fans and protecting the guys in the cage from unwarranted damage.

Herb did a GREAT job letting that Bermudez fight go.

thats like arguing that man utd should get 10 minutes injury time because the ref knows they will score. or when they are winning, the other team shouldnt get any, because the ref knows they will defend.

the ref shouldnt be factoring prior prejudice into a fair contest.

you are right about the bermudez fight tho.

Omoplataypus

That happens all the time in Bball. If a player is known for flopping, the ref is more likely to call him on it. You think any NFL ref is going to hesitate to call Ndamaken Suh for an unnecessary roughness penalty or a personal foul? Thats based on his d bag track record.

It happens all the time and to a certain extent it should. I think its human nature to be inclined to judge something or somebody on there past discretions. Its not always fair, but more often than not people are repeat offenders, so its warranted.


If a ref knows a fighter has devastating power then the fight will be on a shorter leash, unless maybe the opponent is known for having a stout chin ala Hendo or Roy Nelson.

Perfect example happened last night. The lawler fights gets stopped, and Bermudez is allowed to continue.

joeyp1

Omoplataypus said:

That happens all the time in Bball. If a player is known for flopping, the ref is more likely to call him on it. You think any NFL ref is going to hesitate to call Ndamaken Suh for an unnecessary roughness penalty or a personal foul? Thats based on his d bag track record.

It happens all the time and to a certain extent it should. I think its human nature to be inclined to judge something or somebody on there past discretions. Its not always fair, but more often than not people are repeat offenders, so its warranted.


If a ref knows a fighter has devastating power then the fight will be on a shorter leash, unless maybe the opponent is known for having a stout chin ala Hendo or Roy Nelson.

Perfect example happened last night. The lawler fights gets stopped, and Bermudez is allowed to continue.

its obviously wrong. and all the sports you referenced were american.

Omoplataypus

So what? Im American. Whats that have to do with anything?

If its so obviously wrong why dont you counter argue that point instead of criticizing the nationality of the sports I used.

You can only argue with what you know. I used sports I know and I assume that's why you used soccer.

joeyp1

Omoplataypus said:

So what? Im American. Whats that have to do with anything?

If its so obviously wrong why dont you counter argue that point instead of criticizing the nationality of the sports I used.

You can only argue with what you know. I used sports I know and I assume that's why you used soccer.

taking world sport as a context, two things become apparant.

1 there is no such thing as soccer.
2 whether its the olympics or football or rugby or golf or boxing, all sport is based on fair competition. if american sports are different then thats a new one on me. but american sports are not really relevant to the planet. apart from basketball of course.

Omoplataypus

Well whenever you're done with the semantics, ill get back to the argument.

You mean to tell me if a guy in SOCCER is known for committing some bad fouls or maybe is a little too aggressive and there is a 50/50 play where he and another player collide, then the known over aggressive bruiser isnt more likely to get flagged for the blame? If the same play happens between to footballers with no known aggressive behavior then maybe it doesn't shake out the same way.

This isnt the olympics that happen every four years. Its MMA with the the same refs who frequently ref the same fighters, so they really have no choice (meaning its unavoidable) to become accustomed to certain fighters tendencies.

Again bermudez gets to continue because Grice isn't know for big power and Bermudez basically popped right up anyway. Lawler gets the benefit of the doubt because of his known KO power and Kos probably spent a half second too long on his knees.

Reffing fights completely oblivious of a fighters known traits is dangerous IMO. Letting a pillow fister get an extra shot in is not a big deal but when your dealing with the savage power of lawler it becomes a safety issue. Remember the UFC is doing its best to clean up its image (some still view it as human cockfighting) and has put fighter safety at the forefront, much like the NFL has done recently, but that's another American sport so I guess it holds no water here.

joeyp1

Omoplataypus said:

Well whenever you're done with the semantics, ill get back to the argument.

You mean to tell me if a guy in SOCCER is known for committing some bad fouls or maybe is a little too aggressive and there is a 50/50 play where he and another player collide, then the known over aggressive bruiser isnt more likely to get flagged for the blame? If the same play happens between to footballers with no known aggressive behavior then maybe it doesn't shake out the same way.

This isnt the olympics that happen every four years. Its MMA with the the same refs who frequently ref the same fighters, so they really have no choice (meaning its unavoidable) to become accustomed to certain fighters tendencies.

Again bermudez gets to continue because Grice isn't know for big power and Bermudez basically popped right up anyway. Lawler gets the benefit of the doubt because of his known KO power and Kos probably spent a half second too long on his knees.

Reffing fights completely oblivious of a fighters known traits is dangerous IMO. Letting a pillow fister get an extra shot in is not a big deal but when your dealing with the savage power of lawler it becomes a safety issue. Remember the UFC is doing its best to clean up its image (some still view it as human cockfighting) and has put fighter safety at the forefront, much like the NFL has done recently, but that's another American sport so I guess it holds no water here.

the rules dont discriminate.

theres a difference between human error and the rules.

theres also a difference between acknowledging human error and excusing it or even advocating it.

the rules protect the fighter. lets be real, the reason there has been zero deaths in the octagon is not prejudiced refereeing.

the referee enforces the rules.

the bellator owner was on the radio last week and said a ref told him he was inclined to let a guy take a beating if its the end of the round and that every fighter would support that. thats **** refereeing.

enforcing the unified rules is exactly what they are meant to do. not handicap fighters.

joeyp1

Omoplataypus said:

Well whenever you're done with the semantics, ill get back to the argument.

You mean to tell me if a guy in SOCCER is known for committing some bad fouls or maybe is a little too aggressive and there is a 50/50 play where he and another player collide, then the known over aggressive bruiser isnt more likely to get flagged for the blame? If the same play happens between to footballers with no known aggressive behavior then maybe it doesn't shake out the same way.

This isnt the olympics that happen every four years. Its MMA with the the same refs who frequently ref the same fighters, so they really have no choice (meaning its unavoidable) to become accustomed to certain fighters tendencies.

Again bermudez gets to continue because Grice isn't know for big power and Bermudez basically popped right up anyway. Lawler gets the benefit of the doubt because of his known KO power and Kos probably spent a half second too long on his knees.

Reffing fights completely oblivious of a fighters known traits is dangerous IMO. Letting a pillow fister get an extra shot in is not a big deal but when your dealing with the savage power of lawler it becomes a safety issue. Remember the UFC is doing its best to clean up its image (some still view it as human cockfighting) and has put fighter safety at the forefront, much like the NFL has done recently, but that's another American sport so I guess it holds no water here.

also there is no such thing as soccer. thats not semantics. thats reality bud. doesnt matter what you and your tiny provincial tribe think.

america is 5% of the world.

the rest call if football. it is an older game and is the granddad of your game. it is also a ball game played with the feet. not an egg game played with the hands. compared to football, hand egg is a total **** irrelevance.

its a hall mark of american self delusion, arrogance and masochistic dumbfuckery, even trying to re christen or rather americanise the name of the worlds most popular sport.

even your nukes wont help you in this argument, as if you went to war with football, you would lose. youd get absolutely **** decimated by the rest of the planet. and whatever crawled out of the nuclear winter that followed, there would still be people out there playing FOOTBALL. that much we know. son.

considering islam is 25% of the planet, and a lot of them think you are the great satan, maybe america should be known from now on as TGS.

maybe we should find a minority sport like kabaadi and call it "baseball".

more people play it than baseball, so it would hold more weight frankly.

SteelerNation43

KOSHCECK WENT OUT!!!

CONFIRMED AT THE POST PRESSER

joeyp1

SteelerNation43 said:

KOSHCECK WENT OUT!!!

CONFIRMED AT THE POST PRESSER

i actually thought he may have got caught early when no one noticed.

spartacus_

i'm surprised how many "herb was always horrible and i always hated him" fans came out of nowhere

RelentlessRampage

Koscheck should of just mix in striking a little more and not feared Lawler freakishly heavy hands as much

SilentDogood

just you and m-1 global

rodrodMMA92

Even if Kos went out I wanted Lawler to land more shots.

Dark_Horse

I jumped out of my chair and punched the air when Kos goy KTFO'd. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha what amug, great seeing him get smashed. Herb should have let him take some more punishment though.

No_Pantaloons

Yes you are the only one. Stop listening to rogan, he is not the authority on mma. His sparing sessions have totally gone to his head, where he now believes he can call out anyone on anything. Kos got his faced punched in and was not defending. Sure he COULD have taken more, but he was done either way and herb saw it.

KOOKORK

Omoplataypus said:

That happens all the time in Bball. If a player is known for flopping, the ref is more likely to call him on it. You think any NFL ref is going to hesitate to call Ndamaken Suh for an unnecessary roughness penalty or a personal foul? Thats based on his d bag track record.

It happens all the time and to a certain extent it should. I think its human nature to be inclined to judge something or somebody on there past discretions. Its not always fair, but more often than not people are repeat offenders, so its warranted.


If a ref knows a fighter has devastating power then the fight will be on a shorter leash, unless maybe the opponent is known for having a stout chin ala Hendo or Roy Nelson.

Perfect example happened last night. The lawler fights gets stopped, and Bermudez is allowed to continue.

Great answer. I enjoyed reading it.

KOOKORK

joeyp1 said:

Omoplataypus said:

Well whenever you're done with the semantics, ill get back to the argument.

You mean to tell me if a guy in SOCCER is known for committing some bad fouls or maybe is a little too aggressive and there is a 50/50 play where he and another player collide, then the known over aggressive bruiser isnt more likely to get flagged for the blame? If the same play happens between to footballers with no known aggressive behavior then maybe it doesn't shake out the same way.

This isnt the olympics that happen every four years. Its MMA with the the same refs who frequently ref the same fighters, so they really have no choice (meaning its unavoidable) to become accustomed to certain fighters tendencies.

Again bermudez gets to continue because Grice isn't know for big power and Bermudez basically popped right up anyway. Lawler gets the benefit of the doubt because of his known KO power and Kos probably spent a half second too long on his knees.

Reffing fights completely oblivious of a fighters known traits is dangerous IMO. Letting a pillow fister get an extra shot in is not a big deal but when your dealing with the savage power of lawler it becomes a safety issue. Remember the UFC is doing its best to clean up its image (some still view it as human cockfighting) and has put fighter safety at the forefront, much like the NFL has done recently, but that's another American sport so I guess it holds no water here.

also there is no such thing as soccer. thats not semantics. thats reality bud. doesnt matter what you and your tiny provincial tribe think.

america is 5% of the world.

the rest call if football. it is an older game and is the granddad of your game. it is also a ball game played with the feet. not an egg game played with the hands. compared to football, hand egg is a total **** irrelevance.

its a hall mark of american self delusion, arrogance and masochistic dumbfuckery, even trying to re christen or rather americanise the name of the worlds most popular sport.

even your nukes wont help you in this argument, as if you went to war with football, you would lose. youd get absolutely **** decimated by the rest of the planet. and whatever crawled out of the nuclear winter that followed, there would still be people out there playing FOOTBALL. that much we know. son.

considering islam is 25% of the planet, and a lot of them think you are the great satan, maybe america should be known from now on as TGS.

maybe we should find a minority sport like kabaadi and call it "baseball".

more people play it than baseball, so it would hold more weight frankly.

I don't mark this post Troll, spam, off topic or anything . I just call it disgusting.

KOOKORK

TalkLost said:

I've always thought he was extremely over rated as a ref and I think he stops fights way to early sometimes, the Lawler and Koscheck fight isn't the first time he's done that.

For us as UFC fans the most important job of a ref is keeping a fight interesting and entertaining but for a ref the most important job is protecting the fighters from serious damage. In long run for MMA and UFC it is better to be safe than sorry.

Ps: I like herb dean and don't think he is over rated at all.

SteelerNation43

joeyp1 said:

Omoplataypus said:

Well whenever you're done with the semantics, ill get back to the argument.

You mean to tell me if a guy in SOCCER is known for committing some bad fouls or maybe is a little too aggressive and there is a 50/50 play where he and another player collide, then the known over aggressive bruiser isnt more likely to get flagged for the blame? If the same play happens between to footballers with no known aggressive behavior then maybe it doesn't shake out the same way.

This isnt the olympics that happen every four years. Its MMA with the the same refs who frequently ref the same fighters, so they really have no choice (meaning its unavoidable) to become accustomed to certain fighters tendencies.

Again bermudez gets to continue because Grice isn't know for big power and Bermudez basically popped right up anyway. Lawler gets the benefit of the doubt because of his known KO power and Kos probably spent a half second too long on his knees.

Reffing fights completely oblivious of a fighters known traits is dangerous IMO. Letting a pillow fister get an extra shot in is not a big deal but when your dealing with the savage power of lawler it becomes a safety issue. Remember the UFC is doing its best to clean up its image (some still view it as human cockfighting) and has put fighter safety at the forefront, much like the NFL has done recently, but that's another American sport so I guess it holds no water here.

also there is no such thing as soccer. thats not semantics. thats reality bud. doesnt matter what you and your tiny provincial tribe think.

america is 5% of the world.

the rest call if football. it is an older game and is the granddad of your game. it is also a ball game played with the feet. not an egg game played with the hands. compared to football, hand egg is a total **** irrelevance.

its a hall mark of american self delusion, arrogance and masochistic dumbfuckery, even trying to re christen or rather americanise the name of the worlds most popular sport.

even your nukes wont help you in this argument, as if you went to war with football, you would lose. youd get absolutely **** decimated by the rest of the planet. and whatever crawled out of the nuclear winter that followed, there would still be people out there playing FOOTBALL. that much we know. son.

considering islam is 25% of the planet, and a lot of them think you are the great satan, maybe america should be known from now on as TGS.

maybe we should find a minority sport like kabaadi and call it "baseball".

more people play it than baseball, so it would hold more weight frankly.

wow, you clearly don't know the history of how it got its name....do some research before you spew the **** out your mouth.

Omoplataypus

This thread got hilarious. From Herb to Nukes...

joeyp1

KOOKORK said:

joeyp1 said:

Omoplataypus said:

Well whenever you're done with the semantics, ill get back to the argument.

You mean to tell me if a guy in SOCCER is known for committing some bad fouls or maybe is a little too aggressive and there is a 50/50 play where he and another player collide, then the known over aggressive bruiser isnt more likely to get flagged for the blame? If the same play happens between to footballers with no known aggressive behavior then maybe it doesn't shake out the same way.

This isnt the olympics that happen every four years. Its MMA with the the same refs who frequently ref the same fighters, so they really have no choice (meaning its unavoidable) to become accustomed to certain fighters tendencies.

Again bermudez gets to continue because Grice isn't know for big power and Bermudez basically popped right up anyway. Lawler gets the benefit of the doubt because of his known KO power and Kos probably spent a half second too long on his knees.

Reffing fights completely oblivious of a fighters known traits is dangerous IMO. Letting a pillow fister get an extra shot in is not a big deal but when your dealing with the savage power of lawler it becomes a safety issue. Remember the UFC is doing its best to clean up its image (some still view it as human cockfighting) and has put fighter safety at the forefront, much like the NFL has done recently, but that's another American sport so I guess it holds no water here.

also there is no such thing as soccer. thats not semantics. thats reality bud. doesnt matter what you and your tiny provincial tribe think.

america is 5% of the world.

the rest call if football. it is an older game and is the granddad of your game. it is also a ball game played with the feet. not an egg game played with the hands. compared to football, hand egg is a total **** irrelevance.

its a hall mark of american self delusion, arrogance and masochistic dumbfuckery, even trying to re christen or rather americanise the name of the worlds most popular sport.

even your nukes wont help you in this argument, as if you went to war with football, you would lose. youd get absolutely **** decimated by the rest of the planet. and whatever crawled out of the nuclear winter that followed, there would still be people out there playing FOOTBALL. that much we know. son.

considering islam is 25% of the planet, and a lot of them think you are the great satan, maybe america should be known from now on as TGS.

maybe we should find a minority sport like kabaadi and call it "baseball".

more people play it than baseball, so it would hold more weight frankly.

I don't mark this post Troll, spam, off topic or anything . I just call it disgusting.

see this confuses me.

he calls it soccer and everyone else calls it football.

so what.

its not like i was lying.

joeyp1

SteelerNation43 said:

joeyp1 said:

Omoplataypus said:

Well whenever you're done with the semantics, ill get back to the argument.

You mean to tell me if a guy in SOCCER is known for committing some bad fouls or maybe is a little too aggressive and there is a 50/50 play where he and another player collide, then the known over aggressive bruiser isnt more likely to get flagged for the blame? If the same play happens between to footballers with no known aggressive behavior then maybe it doesn't shake out the same way.

This isnt the olympics that happen every four years. Its MMA with the the same refs who frequently ref the same fighters, so they really have no choice (meaning its unavoidable) to become accustomed to certain fighters tendencies.

Again bermudez gets to continue because Grice isn't know for big power and Bermudez basically popped right up anyway. Lawler gets the benefit of the doubt because of his known KO power and Kos probably spent a half second too long on his knees.

Reffing fights completely oblivious of a fighters known traits is dangerous IMO. Letting a pillow fister get an extra shot in is not a big deal but when your dealing with the savage power of lawler it becomes a safety issue. Remember the UFC is doing its best to clean up its image (some still view it as human cockfighting) and has put fighter safety at the forefront, much like the NFL has done recently, but that's another American sport so I guess it holds no water here.

also there is no such thing as soccer. thats not semantics. thats reality bud. doesnt matter what you and your tiny provincial tribe think.

america is 5% of the world.

the rest call if football. it is an older game and is the granddad of your game. it is also a ball game played with the feet. not an egg game played with the hands. compared to football, hand egg is a total **** irrelevance.

its a hall mark of american self delusion, arrogance and masochistic dumbfuckery, even trying to re christen or rather americanise the name of the worlds most popular sport.

even your nukes wont help you in this argument, as if you went to war with football, you would lose. youd get absolutely **** decimated by the rest of the planet. and whatever crawled out of the nuclear winter that followed, there would still be people out there playing FOOTBALL. that much we know. son.

considering islam is 25% of the planet, and a lot of them think you are the great satan, maybe america should be known from now on as TGS.

maybe we should find a minority sport like kabaadi and call it "baseball".

more people play it than baseball, so it would hold more weight frankly.

wow, you clearly don't know the history of how it got its name....do some research before you spew the **** out your mouth.

i do. but its a bs defense. everyone calls it football man. its beyond dumb for 5% of the planet to try to impose a word no one uses on everyone else. its like the most ridiculous masochistic exercise in dumbfuckery ever.

anyone outside of the states is laughing at you every time they hear that word.