After further reflection, My thoughts on Lyoto (vs Dan).

OmoplataypusOmoplataypus BostonPosts: 4,557Free
There appears to be two trains of thought on Lyoto, both have pitfalls but also merit.

On one hand, people think Lyoto fights like last nights are boring. He is a point fighter, reluctant to engage unless an opponent chases him down, leaving themself vulnerable in the process. This aggravates people because he is seemingly hypoallergic to risk. Its a fight, you're probably going to get hit. People who pay good money expect you to lay it all on the line. Hell I could invoke the "warrior spirit" mentality of coming home with your shield or on it.

On the other hand, people think Lyoto fights like last nights are simply an execution of clean, superior technique. Agression, excitement, and finishes, are not as important as mimimizing damage, minimizing wasted energy, and effective, relatively lower risk strikes. Lyotos speed allows him to excel here.

My personal view is a muddled combo of both. I hated last nights fight because it was boring with a capital B. Lyoto ran a good 5 steps backwards everytime Dan came forward with punches. Sometimes he countered, sometimes he didn't. Nothing that landed, even the better couple of kicks, phased Hendo, who coming into this fight had been recently wobbled a few times. Hendo came with the aggression and willingness to make the fight a Shogun/Hendo caliber show. Lyoto had no such intentions.

But can you really blame him? Hendo has the H bomb that has wrecked almost anyone he's touched with it. Why take the chance of falling prey to it? Fighting exactly the way he did is the only way Lyoto gets past Dan and that much closer to a title shot.

Ultimately, I understand why the fight went down the way it did, but it doesn't make me hate watching it any less.
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Comments

  • SteelerNation43SteelerNation43 Posts: 12,654Free
    The one part i think your wrong with is Hendo came in with aggression...

    He didn't, he was just as hesitant to engage.

    He wasn't cutting Lyoto off....he played right into his game.

    Don't understand why Lyoto is getting all the hate here.
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  • joeyp1joeyp1 Posts: 272Free
    edited February 2013
    he has technique and no great chin. he has power, but again it is through technique.

    how do people expect him to fight. he is a martial artist trading almost solely on technique and styles he incorporated to further his own.

    lyoto machida is basically a ufc 1 contestant that pulls a stance and gets smashed by tank abbot into a wheel chair.

    the only difference is he continued to add to his technique.

    i respect the hell out of him for even having the balls to be locked in the cage with legit monsters who are also elite skilled athletes. never mind beating them.

    others take trt and trade on gameness and chin. then they go out and party.

    lyoto drinks piss and his wet dream of a night out is learning obscure approaches and moves from steven seagal.

    he is locked in a cage with a human pit bull terrier.

    in a dog fight hendo would savage him,

    in a human fight machida by technique.
    Post edited by joeyp1 on
  • SteelerNation43SteelerNation43 Posts: 12,654Free
    joeyp1 said:

    he has technique and no great chin. he has power, but again it is through technique.

    how do people expect him to fight. he is a martial artist trading almost solely on technique and styles he incorporated to further his own.

    he is locked in a cage with a human pit bull terrier.

    in a dog fight hendo would savage him,

    in a human fight machida by technique.

    this, did people expect Lyoto to get in a brawl with him?
    image
  • carnages41carnages41 Posts: 36,258Free
    joeyp1 said:

    he has technique and no great chin. he has power, but again it is through technique.

    how do people expect him to fight. he is a martial artist trading almost solely on technique and styles he incorporated to further his own.

    lyoto machida is basically a ufc 1 contestant that pulls a stance and gets smashed by tank abbot into a wheel chair.

    the only difference is he continued to add to his technique.

    i respect the hell out of him for even having the balls to be locked in the cage with legit monsters who are also elite skilled athletes.

    others take trt and trade on gameness and chin. then they go out and party.

    lyoto drinks piss and his wet dream of a night out is learning obscure approaches and moves from steven seagal.

    he is locked in a cage with a human pit bull terrier.

    in a dog fight hendo would savage him,

    in a human fight machida by technique.

    If Machida couldn't exchange with him then he should of lost.....simple as that

    Take your *** beating and leave....don't ****ing run away and try to jew out a decision
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  • joeyp1joeyp1 Posts: 272Free
    edited February 2013

    joeyp1 said:

    he has technique and no great chin. he has power, but again it is through technique.

    how do people expect him to fight. he is a martial artist trading almost solely on technique and styles he incorporated to further his own.

    lyoto machida is basically a ufc 1 contestant that pulls a stance and gets smashed by tank abbot into a wheel chair.

    the only difference is he continued to add to his technique.

    i respect the hell out of him for even having the balls to be locked in the cage with legit monsters who are also elite skilled athletes.

    others take trt and trade on gameness and chin. then they go out and party.

    lyoto drinks piss and his wet dream of a night out is learning obscure approaches and moves from steven seagal.

    he is locked in a cage with a human pit bull terrier.

    in a dog fight hendo would savage him,

    in a human fight machida by technique.

    If Machida couldn't exchange with him then he should of lost.....simple as that

    Take your *** beating and leave....don't ****ing run away and try to jew out a decision
    i dont even know where to start with this. **** wwe, you need to go watch extreme arm wrestling or something.

    0.50 onwards -



    its a human fight, not a dog fight. and in a real fight hendo would probably be dead or completely **** up now.

    it might take 12 hours, but thats how lyoto fights.
    Post edited by joeyp1 on
  • megamanmegaman Posts: 5,281Free
    edited February 2013

    Hendo came with the aggression and willingness to make the fight a Shogun/Hendo caliber show. Lyoto had no such intentions.

    Of course he wanted to turn it into a brawl, that's the only way he wins fights, if that fight was a 5 rounder I wouldn't be suprised if we saw Lyoto starting to dominate more and maybe even finish it by the end, but we had to make way for those two chicks to fight so... **** that..
    Post edited by megaman on


  • SilentDogoodSilentDogood Posts: 237Free
    first round was a draw, second round hendo won, third round machida won, who ever the judges thought won the first round, won the fight
  • PabloskyPablosky Posts: 675Free
    i think the last TD (on final secs round 1) and punches on the ground did the numbers to machida...
    thanks god im less stupid now!

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  • It's funny how I see people compare this fight to Rampage vs Machida it was a slightly more action in the rampage fight and rampage use machidas respect of his power and some foot work to close of the cage and then score points from the clinch where as Dan fought kinda how Tito fought machida purely chasing and losing hope at the end of the second throwing his hands up
  • TheEmperorTheEmperor Posts: 1,764Free
    I havent watched the replay, but im pretty sure Lyoto took a right from Dan and drank it like hot pee in the morning. HBomb is overrated.
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    GSP 1-3-5

  • DerkJitsuDerkJitsu Posts: 150Free
    Both deserve blame but at least Hendo attempted to initiate exhanges. It was the Tito Ortiz fight all over again. Just awful. I'd rather pay money to see the Lyoto in the first round of the Jones fight then the Lyoto that showed up last night. Showing too much patience doesn't seem worthy enough to warrant atitle shot. Make the fight exciting.
  • rick10rick10 Posts: 185Free

    first round was a draw, second round hendo won, third round machida won, who ever the judges thought won the first round, won the fight

    first round was a draw until machida got the takedown

    It was a rough fight , machida got the win period.
    Henderson H bomb is just too dangerous . The only one able to take the H bomb is silva and there is a vdeo outthere of hendo connecting with the spider and doing no damage. Unfortunately machida doesnt have the anderson silva's chin , so he did what he had to do to get the win.

  • BanduraBandura Posts: 1,453Free
    The nature of Lyotos kicks already puts him in a position where he can land more than Dan. Saw it in the last minute or two of round 3. So why run for the hills if you can be more definitively successful? 'effective striking' is only an accurate term for last night if you mean contact. Damage was a non factor
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  • BanduraBandura Posts: 1,453Free

    I havent watched the replay, but im pretty sure Lyoto took a right from Dan and drank it like hot pee in the morning. HBomb is overrated.

    Also, this is dumb.
    image




    All hail the Dark sith ruler, Darth Shubeous!
  • classicboxerclassicboxer Posts: 11,823Free
    According to the "new" UFC, they should both be cut.
    Oakland, CA: Raiders, A's, Warriors
  • GoToGuyGoToGuy Posts: 5,361Free

    joeyp1 said:

    he has technique and no great chin. he has power, but again it is through technique.

    how do people expect him to fight. he is a martial artist trading almost solely on technique and styles he incorporated to further his own.

    he is locked in a cage with a human pit bull terrier.

    in a dog fight hendo would savage him,

    in a human fight machida by technique.

    this, did people expect Lyoto to get in a brawl with him?
    Apparently so. People are dumb. "Zomg, wtf, why didn't he go toe to toe and get H-Bombed into the 3rd row?!??"
    image

  • TahuneTahune Posts: 1,875Free
    GoToGuy said:

    joeyp1 said:

    he has technique and no great chin. he has power, but again it is through technique.

    how do people expect him to fight. he is a martial artist trading almost solely on technique and styles he incorporated to further his own.

    he is locked in a cage with a human pit bull terrier.

    in a dog fight hendo would savage him,

    in a human fight machida by technique.

    this, did people expect Lyoto to get in a brawl with him?
    Apparently so. People are dumb. "Zomg, wtf, why didn't he go toe to toe and get H-Bombed into the 3rd row?!??"
    There is so much butthurt. It makes you wonder if people actually understand what a "gameplan" is.
    Henderson is his own worst enemy, he spent the majority of three rounds looking for that big right hand...
    He deserved to lose IMHO. From a technical "stand up" point of view Henderson is a joke- Nobody can take anything away from his chin or the power in that right hand but he did exactly what Machida expected him to to do.
    Grover- Future LHW champ!
  • OmoplataypusOmoplataypus BostonPosts: 4,557Free
    This wasnt supposed to be a Macheater bashing thread. Just one where I present two sides of the equation and the logical middle ground.

    As for Hendo, I don't know what more you guys wanted from him. He charged forward several times with several punches. He did everything short of a full sprint to get to Lyoto. Macheater was just too fast. No hate. It was the right gameplan. Just thought it made for a boring fight...
    !!! WAR KELGOAT
    !!! WAR MAIA
    !!! WAR CORMIER
    !!! WAR WEIDMAN  

    Active bets:
    TheSinisterUrge-FRANKIE/bj, wedo619-BROWN/silva, MGun-RUMBLE/prayvis

    "GOAT List:
    1. GSP
    2. Ryan LaFlare
    3. Other people"
    I took LyGOATo Machida's piss to the back of the throat and I loved it! wanderleisilva101 is the GOAT

  • classicboxerclassicboxer Posts: 11,823Free

    This wasnt supposed to be a Macheater bashing thread. Just one where I present two sides of the equation and the logical middle ground.

    As for Hendo, I don't know what more you guys wanted from him. He charged forward several times with several punches. He did everything short of a full sprint to get to Lyoto. Macheater was just too fast. No hate. It was the right gameplan. Just thought it made for a boring fight...

    Wrestling is supposed to stop running.
    Oakland, CA: Raiders, A's, Warriors
  • PunchBagPunchBag Posts: 7,820Free
    both guys did exactly what they usually do with hendo adding a few takedowns, fight played out exactly how i expected it to.

    But it was close machida didnt seem urgent even when he could possibly loose. The only time i remember seeing machida urgent was the shogun vs machida 2 fight where he brought it to shogun and ended up getting kod.;
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  • zaksamezaksame Posts: 4,342Free
    I think Lyoto does have the technique and skill to instead of backing up,side step and counter.However Hendo is such a bum,Lyoto just chose to play it 100% safe,why take a chance on a skill move going inside if you don't have to.

    I think it is total BS to expect guys to lay it all on the line,imo your an idiot if you WANT to let another guy punch you in the head,it should 100% ALWAYS be to avoid getting hit.I will tell you right now that the UFC is lucky to get into many states and Canada,they have to convince them their sport is SAFE and not a WRECKLESS,chaotic slug fest.

    If it becomes real obvious that the UFC is forcing these guys to fight careless to keep their jobs,they are in for some serious lawsuits.Dana was asked that very question a few venues ago,about if he wanted fighters to fight careless to make him happy and he totally avoided the question.
    Gina Miesha Kyra ...yes please.
  • OmoplataypusOmoplataypus BostonPosts: 4,557Free

    This wasnt supposed to be a Macheater bashing thread. Just one where I present two sides of the equation and the logical middle ground.

    As for Hendo, I don't know what more you guys wanted from him. He charged forward several times with several punches. He did everything short of a full sprint to get to Lyoto. Macheater was just too fast. No hate. It was the right gameplan. Just thought it made for a boring fight...

    Wrestling is supposed to stop running.
    Lyoto has great grappling. Dan's isnt what it used to be.
    !!! WAR KELGOAT
    !!! WAR MAIA
    !!! WAR CORMIER
    !!! WAR WEIDMAN  

    Active bets:
    TheSinisterUrge-FRANKIE/bj, wedo619-BROWN/silva, MGun-RUMBLE/prayvis

    "GOAT List:
    1. GSP
    2. Ryan LaFlare
    3. Other people"
    I took LyGOATo Machida's piss to the back of the throat and I loved it! wanderleisilva101 is the GOAT

  • All I know is they both sucked that night. Lyoto sucked less, so he won...
  • TheEmperorTheEmperor Posts: 1,764Free
    Bandura said:

    I havent watched the replay, but im pretty sure Lyoto took a right from Dan and drank it like hot pee in the morning. HBomb is overrated.

    Also, this is dumb.
    ^^ butthurt.
    texttext

    GSP 1-3-5

  • AxeMurduhAxeMurduh ShuragogaunepechwanPosts: 1,918Free
    Hendo won, anyone who disagrees should not be on the forum.

  • StompGrindStompGrind Posts: 21,211Free
    edited February 2013
    I actually enjoyed the fight for the most part. It wasn't a fight i'd tell others about how exciting it was but it was fine. It was an ok fight to me but just ok. It definitely wasn't Houston Alexander vs Kimbo or Kalib vs Quarry.

    I knew coming into what to expect but i did think there would be a few more engangements but it kept me interested enough that it didn't bore me at all really.

    Lyoto would have been an idiot to get too aggressive and not keep his distance since his plan was to outstrike him on the outside and not go to the ground if possible. Dan would have been an idiot to press the fight too much and walk right into some harder counters and he had trouble clinching to take him down and he couldn't just let Machida come to him and still get picked apart outside. They both played the game how it should have been played and sure a few minor things could have been changed but even if they fought again it's still the same set of problems and still the fight would likely play out very similar.

    Post edited by StompGrind on
  • c_pumphreyc_pumphrey Posts: 929Free
    Dan should of fought like Rampage
  • GobboGobbo Posts: 1,371Free
    zaksame said:

    I think Lyoto does have the technique and skill to instead of backing up,side step and counter.However Hendo is such a bum,Lyoto just chose to play it 100% safe,why take a chance on a skill move going inside if you don't have to.

    I think it is total BS to expect guys to lay it all on the line,imo your an idiot if you WANT to let another guy punch you in the head,it should 100% ALWAYS be to avoid getting hit.I will tell you right now that the UFC is lucky to get into many states and Canada,they have to convince them their sport is SAFE and not a WRECKLESS,chaotic slug fest.

    If it becomes real obvious that the UFC is forcing these guys to fight careless to keep their jobs,they are in for some serious lawsuits.Dana was asked that very question a few venues ago,about if he wanted fighters to fight careless to make him happy and he totally avoided the question.

    Yup, Hendo is such a bum he's been a top 5 in whatever weight class he's fought in for pretty much his career. He's only won a ufc tournament, 2 pride belts a strike force belt had fought in three different weight classes.
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