Carmouche Neck Crank

KingZerxst

I'm really shocked this hasn't been talked about too much. When Liz was cranking on Rousey's neck, I was just waiting for it to snap. Especially when Ronda wash shaking her off her back and onto the ground. Is it just me, or is this a very VERY dangerous move? Not as in submission dangerous, but as in fighter safety dangerous. I feel like if Liz didn't slip off when Ronda was twisting her off her back, she might have actually done some serious damage to her neck. It could just be me, but I was honestly hoping she didn't brake her neck in the process. Should this be looked at any further or maybe even be banned? It's hard to say it should be banned without anyone being injured, but it definitely had me on the edge of my seat.

SteelerNation43

everybody was focused on Rousey's chest...

but forreal...that was a legit neck crank.

Just what WMMA needed....Rousey winning while facing some adversity.

StompGrind

KingZerxst said:

I'm really shocked this hasn't been talked about too much. When Liz was cranking on Rousey's neck, I was just waiting for it to snap. Especially when Ronda wash shaking her off her back and onto the ground. Is it just me, or is this a very VERY dangerous move? Not as in submission dangerous, but as in fighter safety dangerous. I feel like if Liz didn't slip off when Ronda was twisting her off her back, she might have actually done some serious damage to her neck. It could just be me, but I was honestly hoping she didn't brake her neck in the process. Should this be looked at any further or maybe even be banned? It's hard to say it should be banned without anyone being injured, but it definitely had me on the edge of my seat.

A Neck crank from the back position with leg hooks in is generally not a real threat of doing serious damage. Neither is the one from Scarfhold where you trap the arm with your leg and pull the head like Hardy tried against Anthony Johnson. It's painful but unlikely to cause any serious damage because you don't really have that much leverage.

Where you do have plenty leverage......

The standing guillotine where you crossface the jaw into front face lock neck crank ( aka the grovit ) can be dangerous because you have rediculous leverage there. Dan Miller's Guillotine in the IFL against Dave Phillips was similar to this and Barnett vs Noguiera which was a true face lock neck crank is a perfect example and potentially dangerous.

Another dangerous one ( the most dangerous imo ) is the crucifix neck crank from side control where you trap the head and underhook the same side then walk your hand deep and switch your base to Kesa Gatame leg position and lean back. You can catch to intial postion from standing off a front headlock or guillotine or from the guard or from a front headlock on the ground after sprawling and then you use it to reverse them over switch base walk the hand up and lean back some to apply the neck crank. There is a rediculous amount of pressure when applying the finish from the top from that Kesa Gatame base and even the strongest most flexible neck can't take that kind of pressure and you're forced to tap or risk serious damage to your neck.

Bottom line is people need to know when to tap. Sometimes it's a little hard to know when the severe damage point is reached and it's time to tap because they come on soo fast like heel hooks and inverted heel hooks. It doesn't take much pressure because your position is so compromised then snap crackle pop.

But generally besides those two i mentioned and the twister the rest are not quite that bad.

classicboxer

StompGrind said:

KingZerxst said:

I'm really shocked this hasn't been talked about too much. When Liz was cranking on Rousey's neck, I was just waiting for it to snap. Especially when Ronda wash shaking her off her back and onto the ground. Is it just me, or is this a very VERY dangerous move? Not as in submission dangerous, but as in fighter safety dangerous. I feel like if Liz didn't slip off when Ronda was twisting her off her back, she might have actually done some serious damage to her neck. It could just be me, but I was honestly hoping she didn't brake her neck in the process. Should this be looked at any further or maybe even be banned? It's hard to say it should be banned without anyone being injured, but it definitely had me on the edge of my seat.

A Neck crank from the back position with leg hooks in is generally not a real threat of doing serious damage. Neither is the one from Scarfhold where you trap the arm with your leg and pull the head like Hardy tried against Anthony Johnson. It's painful but unlikely to cause any serious damage because you don't really have that much leverage.

Where you do have plenty leverage......

The standing guillotine where you crossface the jaw into front face lock neck crank ( aka the grovit ) can be dangerous because you have rediculous leverage there. Dan Miller's Guillotine in the IFL against Dave Phillips was similar to this and Barnett vs Noguiera which was a true face lock neck crank is a perfect example and potentially dangerous.

Another dangerous one ( the most dangerous imo ) is the crucifix neck crank from side control where you trap the head and underhook the same side then walk your hand deep and switch your base to Kesa Gatame leg position and lean back. You can catch to intial postion from standing off a front headlock or guillotine or from the guard or from a front headlock on the ground after sprawling and then you use it to reverse them over switch base walk the hand up and lean back some to apply the neck crank. There is a rediculous amount of pressure when applying the finish from the top from that Kesa Gatame base and even the strongest most flexible neck can't take that kind of pressure and you're forced to tap or risk serious damage to your neck.

Bottom line is people need to know when to tap. Sometimes it's a little hard to know when the severe damage point is reached and it's time to tap because they come on soo fast like heel hooks and inverted heel hooks. It doesn't take much pressure because your position is so compromised then snap crackle pop.

But generally besides those two i mentioned and the twister the rest are not quite that bad.

Can the ref legally stop the fight if someone in one of those refuses to tap?

StompGrind

classicboxer said:

Can the ref legally stop the fight if someone in one of those refuses to tap?

Im not really sure but obviously they can step in if something breaks but by then it's too late and there would be a lot of controversy if refs started stopping submission holds prematurely. If they set a standard where they would be willing to jump in early for certain cervical locks then people would do them more just hoping to get a premature stoppage.

The fact is neck cranks for the most part are not that effective. They are difficult to even set-up in the first place and more difficult to finish and a lot of the time easy to escape so not many fighters go for them.

The ones i mentioned can be dangerous though because when you turn the head it's not so bad by itself but when the head is turned and pressure is applied in opposing directions against the neck going upward and head going downward trapped under the arm or against the chest from that turned neck position then the neck is in such a weak position of alignment that serious injury can occur with very little pressure. Same for the crucifix neck crank because the back is flat and pinned to the mat from over and under so if you switch your base and lean into thier head while walking up the underhook i don't know anyone that has range of motion to put thier forehead into thier chest and be fine.



If he switchs his hips here sitting out flat on his left hip and leans back good bye neck.

classicboxer

I remember when Mir broke Sylvia's arm they stopped it, even though he didn't tap.

StompGrind

classicboxer said:

I remember when Mir broke Sylvia's arm they stopped it, even though he didn't tap.

Yes Herb Dean stopped it AFTER Mir broke it. Not before.

Jbrahams

Imagine that, way to kill the Rousey hype, just snap her neck....

RelentlessRampage

The neck was decent wasn't the best neck crank but a definently put alot of pressure on it

PunchBag

i thought rousey was gonig to tap or go unconcious.

zaksame

That's why they have those refs,they are PAID to make the right decisions.If a ref deemed it could cause serious damage he could stop the fight right there.
In this case it was obvious that it really was not a serious threat because Rhonda shook her off with no trouble at all.i wonder why Carmouche had obviously nothing with her legs,no strength at all to hold on,she just fell right off.You watch the men fight and they often stay up top forever or the guy on the bottom falls to the ground.

The two top chicks in MMA or even the three,are all MUCH stronger than the rest of the field.Cyborg,Rhonda and Carano are so much bigger stronger they actually make the fights look pathetic.it is why Rhonda can easily power her way to control and submission.

I was surprised at how much bigger Rhonda was ,i am sure Carmouche cuts weight and she was miles smaller,so imagine how heavy Rousey actually was.Taller,bigger chest,bigger arms,bigger legs,i mean it was a joke,like watching two different weight classes.I was hoping Carmouche could do something with that Crank,but in the back of my head i knew it was meaningless,the outcome would soon be obvious.

PunchBag

carano isnt a top wmma, most of the top women didnt fight in strikeforce.

waikru

In the postfight conference, Rousey said that it dislocated her jaw. I would say it was pretty effective.

GSP_over_Silva

I would've tapped. **** dat ish, my ****.

GSP_over_Silva

I accidentally disagreed with you, waikru. LOL. My bad, my ****.

RicardoSanchez

waikru said:

In the postfight conference, Rousey said that it dislocated her jaw. I would say it was pretty effective.

I think she said she dislocated her jaw when she was a kid.

waikru

GSP_over_Silva said:

I accidentally disagreed with you, waikru. LOL. My bad, my ****.

Its cool. I thought you were trolling me.

waikru

RicardoSanchez said:

waikru said:

In the postfight conference, Rousey said that it dislocated her jaw. I would say it was pretty effective.

I think she said she dislocated her jaw when she was a kid.

Perhaps I misunderstood her. I thought she dislocated her jaw in the same manner as she did when she was a kid. Either way it looked pretty uncomfortable.

RicardoSanchez

ah she could have ment that I took it the other way but i was watching pretty late before I went to bed so could be me who has it mixed up.It was a sweet moment in the fight either way.Not a position I would like to end up in.

Frontline_Rioter

I guess I'm the only one that didn't seem like she was in any real trouble. The girl is not going to cough up her belt and unbeaten record to a neck crank. That wasn't Maia on her back.

Omoplataypus

Frontline_Rioter said:

I guess I'm the only one that didn't seem like she was in any real trouble. The girl is not going to cough up her belt and unbeaten record to a neck crank. That wasn't Maia on her back.

I wanted Rhonda to win so it had me a little worried but I guess the neck crank is one of those things that looks worse than it really is.

classicboxer

Omoplataypus said:

Frontline_Rioter said:

I guess I'm the only one that didn't seem like she was in any real trouble. The girl is not going to cough up her belt and unbeaten record to a neck crank. That wasn't Maia on her back.

I wanted Rhonda to win so it had me a little worried but I guess the neck crank is one of those things that looks worse than it really is.

I didn't think she would tap to a neck crank, but if Carmouche got her arm down to the neck that would have been the end of women's MMA in the UFC.

StompGrind

classicboxer said:

Omoplataypus said:

Frontline_Rioter said:

I guess I'm the only one that didn't seem like she was in any real trouble. The girl is not going to cough up her belt and unbeaten record to a neck crank. That wasn't Maia on her back.

I wanted Rhonda to win so it had me a little worried but I guess the neck crank is one of those things that looks worse than it really is.

I didn't think she would tap to a neck crank, but if Carmouche got her arm down to the neck that would have been the end of women's MMA in the UFC.

Yeah alot of people give up the neck to deal with the pain of the forearm raking across the jaw and at one point it was fairly close to slipping in under the chin and if that would have happened i believe Liz would have sealed the deal. I don't really agree that would mean the the death of woman's mma in the UFC. They have about 15 female fighters on contract already trying to build the division and it's not all on Honda's shoulders to carry woman's mma. I think Dana finally has hespect for woman's mma and maybe some of the more chauvinist mma fans will now realize the females usually bring it and atleast some of them are pretty high level.

classicboxer

StompGrind said:

classicboxer said:

Omoplataypus said:

Frontline_Rioter said:

I guess I'm the only one that didn't seem like she was in any real trouble. The girl is not going to cough up her belt and unbeaten record to a neck crank. That wasn't Maia on her back.

I wanted Rhonda to win so it had me a little worried but I guess the neck crank is one of those things that looks worse than it really is.

I didn't think she would tap to a neck crank, but if Carmouche got her arm down to the neck that would have been the end of women's MMA in the UFC.

Yeah alot of people give up the neck to deal with the pain of the forearm raking across the jaw and at one point it was fairly close to slipping in under the chin and if that would have happened i believe Liz would have sealed the deal. I don't really agree that would mean the the death of woman's mma in the UFC. They have about 15 female fighters on contract already trying to build the division and it's not all on Honda's shoulders to carry woman's mma. I think Dana finally has hespect for woman's mma and maybe some of the more chauvinist mma fans will now realize the females usually bring it and atleast some of them are pretty high level.

I just don't think an "ugly lesbian" gets the same attention.

StompGrind

classicboxer said:

I just don't think an "ugly lesbian" gets the same attention.

She'll never get as much as Honda but even if Liz won they could sell a card just fine with her as the main even as long as the rest of the card has interesting matchups.

spartacus_

i'm just surprised nobody is talking about Carmouche's upkick trying to strip Rousey's top

that was close

rousey wouldn't tap but i would fap

PunchBag

rousey only looks good plastered in makeup with the lights dimmed, in the ring if 1 of her boobs popped out i would probably have to look away.