Love him or hate him Diaz did bring up a valid point you don't often hear..

DarksjeikDarksjeik Posts: 2,245Free
At the post fight presser he said he did the best he could with what he had to work with. That's actually an interesting point.

GSP isn't just one guy, He has an entire crew around him finetuning him like a machine and making sure he doesn't have any worries about things like nutricion, schedules, money, transportation, trainingpartners etc etc. all specifically catered towards him. Everything is taken care of for him. There must be around 30-35 people behind the curtains. All this obviously has to do with budget.

You could wonder if the average WW could ever compete with those kind of resources?

btw not taking anything away from his abilities ofcourse, inside the octagon it's still only one man !


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  • Gabri1985Gabri1985 Manchester, England Posts: 7,695Free
    Everyone starts at the bottom, gsp and any other fighter who has those resources has had to work there **** off to get them baring the ones like Penn who was born into money.
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  • DarksjeikDarksjeik Posts: 2,245Free
    Gabri1985 said:

    Everyone starts at the bottom, gsp and any other fighter who has those resources has had to work there **** off to get them baring the ones like Penn who was born into money.

    Absolutely, I'm not taking that away from him but as is, there an advantage he has that few others have. There's more to fighting than just the 25 min. he spends in the cage.



  • MGunMGun GOATPosts: 3,140Free
    I can't feel sorry for someone who earns/has 20 times more money than me. And I'm sure he has enough to afford the stuff you mentioned in your op. I don't know about sparring partners though but one would think that there are quite a few good fighters that would like to train with Nick (for free?), since basically every fighter is a fan of Nicks style.
  • Gabri1985Gabri1985 Manchester, England Posts: 7,695Free
    Darksjeik said:

    Gabri1985 said:

    Everyone starts at the bottom, gsp and any other fighter who has those resources has had to work there **** off to get them baring the ones like Penn who was born into money.

    Absolutely, I'm not taking that away from him but as is, there an advantage he has that few others have. There's more to fighting than just the 25 min. he spends in the cage.

    If they get to the top like gsp then they can get the same kind of team he has, his talent got him that team. It's and advantage he worked for, all the others have that opportunity.
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  • zaksamezaksame Posts: 4,342Free
    The things GSP gets out of his camps is NOTHING Diaz has to worry about.Diaz's problem is his head.
    GSp is a one dimensional fighter,he SHOULD be very easy to train for.The problem is HARD WORK,most think they are working as hard,but i doubt it,GSP is in really good shape.Smacking boxing gloves is not the same cardio workout.Pulling ropes or lifting cowbells is again dumb.Rolling on the floor with half **** BJ is again doing little.

    GSp has soooooo many holes in his game,it is just lack of smarts that makes these guys struggle.These guys seldom attack GSP ,nor do they try and take him down first.They also tend to fight standing straight up,might as well ask to be taken down.GSP uses one move,the dip and drive TD,he does NOT use trips or throws nor Bjj.Even on the ground he tries to use arm power instead of technique,you NEVER se him use grape vines to control the legs.
    Diaz has been training for a lot of years with good fighters,Shield's is a really good fighter,so no excuse from that standpoint.Gracie is a supposed wiz in BJJ so again no excuses.
    IMO Maia and Hendrick's will expose GSP's weaknesses.This is not really becuase either are smart but more so their skill set is what will give GSP trouble.Diaz does not fight smart,he fights the same way al lthe time,so although GSP is predictable,so is Diaz and so is pretty mcuh all the opponents.
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  • classicboxerclassicboxer Posts: 11,848Free
    zaksame said:

    The things GSP gets out of his camps is NOTHING Diaz has to worry about.Diaz's problem is his head.
    GSp is a one dimensional fighter,he SHOULD be very easy to train for.The problem is HARD WORK,most think they are working as hard,but i doubt it,GSP is in really good shape.Smacking boxing gloves is not the same cardio workout.Pulling ropes or lifting cowbells is again dumb.Rolling on the floor with half **** BJ is again doing little.

    GSp has soooooo many holes in his game,it is just lack of smarts that makes these guys struggle.These guys seldom attack GSP ,nor do they try and take him down first.They also tend to fight standing straight up,might as well ask to be taken down.GSP uses one move,the dip and drive TD,he does NOT use trips or throws nor Bjj.Even on the ground he tries to use arm power instead of technique,you NEVER se him use grape vines to control the legs.
    Diaz has been training for a lot of years with good fighters,Shield's is a really good fighter,so no excuse from that standpoint.Gracie is a supposed wiz in BJJ so again no excuses.
    IMO Maia and Hendrick's will expose GSP's weaknesses.This is not really becuase either are smart but more so their skill set is what will give GSP trouble.Diaz does not fight smart,he fights the same way al lthe time,so although GSP is predictable,so is Diaz and so is pretty mcuh all the opponents.

    The overrated aspect of jiu jitsu shows itself- whenever a good athlete knows what to look for, jiu jitsu doesn't work.
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  • Gabri1985Gabri1985 Manchester, England Posts: 7,695Free

    zaksame said:

    The things GSP gets out of his camps is NOTHING Diaz has to worry about.Diaz's problem is his head.
    GSp is a one dimensional fighter,he SHOULD be very easy to train for.The problem is HARD WORK,most think they are working as hard,but i doubt it,GSP is in really good shape.Smacking boxing gloves is not the same cardio workout.Pulling ropes or lifting cowbells is again dumb.Rolling on the floor with half **** BJ is again doing little.

    GSp has soooooo many holes in his game,it is just lack of smarts that makes these guys struggle.These guys seldom attack GSP ,nor do they try and take him down first.They also tend to fight standing straight up,might as well ask to be taken down.GSP uses one move,the dip and drive TD,he does NOT use trips or throws nor Bjj.Even on the ground he tries to use arm power instead of technique,you NEVER se him use grape vines to control the legs.
    Diaz has been training for a lot of years with good fighters,Shield's is a really good fighter,so no excuse from that standpoint.Gracie is a supposed wiz in BJJ so again no excuses.
    IMO Maia and Hendrick's will expose GSP's weaknesses.This is not really becuase either are smart but more so their skill set is what will give GSP trouble.Diaz does not fight smart,he fights the same way al lthe time,so although GSP is predictable,so is Diaz and so is pretty mcuh all the opponents.

    The overrated aspect of jiu jitsu shows itself- whenever a good athlete knows what to look for, jiu jitsu doesn't work.
    i actually agree, it's the least affective aspect of mma once guys know what there doing been saying it for a long time.
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  • DarksjeikDarksjeik Posts: 2,245Free
    edited March 2013

    i actually agree, it's the least affective aspect of mma once guys know what there doing been saying it for a long time.




    Then why are we still seeing so many submissions?

    Post edited by Darksjeik on


  • Gabri1985Gabri1985 Manchester, England Posts: 7,695Free
    People will still get subbed, but how many ko/tkos are there compared to subs? also how many times does the guy on top nullify the guy trying to sub from the bottom?
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  • SistiSisti Posts: 5,314Free
    It's like Rocky 4 when the Russian was training with the best resources possible and Rocky just had all heart and was training in the snow and with raw resources. Rocky won because of his unbeliavable heart. Diaz admitted that he didn't have the best training leading up to this that he could have

    Look, if you want to be the best in the world, your training has to reach a whole different level. There's someone out there who has enough heart and willpower to beat GSP, but I don't think that Diaz was that guy. Diaz made a name for himself and will always be someone that has fans, but I didn't think he'd beat GSP. I just want to see the fight that I've always wanted to see, GSP/Silva!
  • jayzeejayzee Posts: 2,028Free
    Simply stated....

    Diaz has all the resources he needs, everything is there, but he downs the wrestling aspect of the sport so he gets caught by wrestling every time almost. If he worked on his wrestling as much as he should, he would have had a better time.

    When you are a better wrestler it also helps your striking, since your opponent will worry now if you are going to take them down if they throw a punch, or you get so good at wrestling you no longer fear being taken down so you can choose to stand or force a takedown,,,,,

    Work on your wrestling Diaz, and then you will win more...
    image



  • fobarfobar Posts: 27,337Free
    jayzee said:

    Simply stated....

    Diaz has all the resources he needs, everything is there, but he downs the wrestling aspect of the sport so he gets caught by wrestling every time almost. If he worked on his wrestling as much as he should, he would have had a better time.

    When you are a better wrestler it also helps your striking, since your opponent will worry now if you are going to take them down if they throw a punch, or you get so good at wrestling you no longer fear being taken down so you can choose to stand or force a takedown,,,,,

    Work on your wrestling Diaz, and then you will win more...

    this is truth
    image
    image

  • juice64011juice64011 Posts: 5,965Free
    jayzee said:

    Simply stated....

    Diaz has all the resources he needs, everything is there, but he downs the wrestling aspect of the sport so he gets caught by wrestling every time almost. If he worked on his wrestling as much as he should, he would have had a better time.

    When you are a better wrestler it also helps your striking, since your opponent will worry now if you are going to take them down if they throw a punch, or you get so good at wrestling you no longer fear being taken down so you can choose to stand or force a takedown,,,,,

    Work on your wrestling Diaz, and then you will win more...

    I agree that he needs to work on his wrestling more but at the same time he could train as much as he wants and still won't be an elite wrestler. It's not for everyone and his body type really isn't built for it.
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  • fobarfobar Posts: 27,337Free

    jayzee said:

    Simply stated....

    Diaz has all the resources he needs, everything is there, but he downs the wrestling aspect of the sport so he gets caught by wrestling every time almost. If he worked on his wrestling as much as he should, he would have had a better time.

    When you are a better wrestler it also helps your striking, since your opponent will worry now if you are going to take them down if they throw a punch, or you get so good at wrestling you no longer fear being taken down so you can choose to stand or force a takedown,,,,,

    Work on your wrestling Diaz, and then you will win more...

    I agree that he needs to work on his wrestling more but at the same time he could train as much as he wants and still won't be an elite wrestler. It's not for everyone and his body type really isn't built for it.
    it isnt about being an elite level wrestle, its improving your ability to stop the TD from the start of a fight. A lot of decent wrestlers can stop TD's from elite level wrestlers at the start of a fight when both fighters are fresh. Had Nick been able to do that, he could have had some success in the opening exchanges and possibly change the fight
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    image

  • DoomPatrolDoomPatrol Posts: 746Free
    I don't think there's a line of coaches just waiting to get their opportunity to work with the likes of Diaz.
  • rodrodMMA92rodrodMMA92 TexasPosts: 4,027Free
    @Darksjeik

    still the best sig on the forum.

    And I guess but Diaz should know better. Its not like he's making scrub money and if need be he could call in some wrestlers into the camp.



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  • WarWestWarWest Órale VatoPosts: 33,841Free
    He should have done more

    Money has nothing to do with it

    He smashed GSP's cardio while GSP was in dominant position

    He rocked GSP in the 3rd and if he would have poured it on in the last two rounds he would have finished

    Money or not, Diaz is the idiot for not taking advantage of the situation
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  • DarksjeikDarksjeik Posts: 2,245Free

    @Darksjeik

    still the best sig on the forum.


    Only the best for you guys :D


  • chanman20chanman20 Posts: 4,843Free
    WarWest said:

    He should have done more

    Money has nothing to do with it

    He smashed GSP's cardio while GSP was in dominant position

    He rocked GSP in the 3rd and if he would have poured it on in the last two rounds he would have finished

    Money or not, Diaz is the idiot for not taking advantage of the situation

    This right here. In the later rounds Diaz was stopping the takedowns and even had him on the cage but didn't do anything with it. It should ofmade him pay each time he failed those TDs. He knew by the 3rd GSP was up and he should of went for broke
    “But in the end, the most important thing to accept, is that no matter how alone you feel, how painful it may be, with the help of those around you, you'll get through this too."

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  • BruteDionBruteDion Posts: 10,503Free
    Gabri1985 said:

    zaksame said:

    The things GSP gets out of his camps is NOTHING Diaz has to worry about.Diaz's problem is his head.
    GSp is a one dimensional fighter,he SHOULD be very easy to train for.The problem is HARD WORK,most think they are working as hard,but i doubt it,GSP is in really good shape.Smacking boxing gloves is not the same cardio workout.Pulling ropes or lifting cowbells is again dumb.Rolling on the floor with half **** BJ is again doing little.

    GSp has soooooo many holes in his game,it is just lack of smarts that makes these guys struggle.These guys seldom attack GSP ,nor do they try and take him down first.They also tend to fight standing straight up,might as well ask to be taken down.GSP uses one move,the dip and drive TD,he does NOT use trips or throws nor Bjj.Even on the ground he tries to use arm power instead of technique,you NEVER se him use grape vines to control the legs.
    Diaz has been training for a lot of years with good fighters,Shield's is a really good fighter,so no excuse from that standpoint.Gracie is a supposed wiz in BJJ so again no excuses.
    IMO Maia and Hendrick's will expose GSP's weaknesses.This is not really becuase either are smart but more so their skill set is what will give GSP trouble.Diaz does not fight smart,he fights the same way al lthe time,so although GSP is predictable,so is Diaz and so is pretty mcuh all the opponents.

    The overrated aspect of jiu jitsu shows itself- whenever a good athlete knows what to look for, jiu jitsu doesn't work.
    i actually agree, it's the least affective aspect of mma once guys know what there doing been saying it for a long time.
    Its the same for any style...once you learn its defences then it becomes less successful

    Idk why people only think this bout BJJ...once someone takes up wrestling and the get better at stopping TDs and getting TDs...look at GSP...he was not a wrestler first

    Bjj is not useless...you have to learn Bjj to stop BJJ (or a subing style with some of the same moves)
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  • chanman20chanman20 Posts: 4,843Free
    BJJ>wrestling ;) Mir proved that
    “But in the end, the most important thing to accept, is that no matter how alone you feel, how painful it may be, with the help of those around you, you'll get through this too."

    Chael Sonnen will make Jon Jones look like the can that he is when he becomes the LHW Champion.

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  • OmoplataypusOmoplataypus BostonPosts: 4,625Free
    How did Mir prove that? LESNAR beat the trash out of him the second time around once he knew a little bit of BJJ.

    If one guy has great wrestling and passable BJJ then 9 out of 10 times he beats an opponent with great BJJ and passable wrestling.
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  • BruteDionBruteDion Posts: 10,503Free

    How did Mir prove that? LESNAR beat the trash out of him the second time around once he knew a little bit of BJJ.

    If one guy has great wrestling and passable BJJ then 9 out of 10 times he beats an opponent with great BJJ and passable wrestling.

    mir is way below passable wrestling lol...ue though.that adding muscle is all that he needed to stop lesnar's wrestling lol...he even said he added muscle to help his wrestling but all it did was hurt his bjj....so even his bjj was not at its best
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  • OmoplataypusOmoplataypus BostonPosts: 4,625Free
    So basically it's harder to become passable at wrestling than BJJ?
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  • MaximumBobMaximumBob Posts: 1,288Free


    Diaz made some good points, especially regards scoring. He isn't the most articulate fighter out there, but that shouldn't detract from what he was actually saying.
    I love the fact that he openly expresses his opinions, and damn the consequences, opinions that are often echoed across forums such as this one and many others.
    I like that Diaz has the balls to say what others only think.
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  • BruteDionBruteDion Posts: 10,503Free

    So basically it's harder to become passable at wrestling than BJJ?

    I'm not sayin that...Im saying mir took the wrong game plan...he thought he could up his wrestling to passable (which he never even did) by adding muscle and at the same time he lowered his BJJ with the extra muscle

    Lesnar went into the fight not only with top wrestling but an increased level of bjj...I'm not saying he got ok BJJ then either...we never had to see his bjj defence really cuz Mir didn't attempt many subs cuz he got pounded on for so long

    We can not look at only one fight to praise or condemn a style cuz its just that one fight...only when mma was purely one style uses vs. One style users could we find out which was better(ironic)...but even that was flawed I'm many ways

    Only thing that is for sure that once one fighter no matter the style starts to cross train in another syle but also keeps the tools he had in his base style does he have an advantage over the one style uses...for example Kos
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  • BruteDionBruteDion Posts: 10,503Free
    BruteDion said:

    So basically it's harder to become passable at wrestling than BJJ?

    I'm not sayin that...Im saying mir took the wrong game plan...he thought he could up his wrestling to passable (which he never even did) by adding muscle and at the same time he lowered his BJJ with the extra muscle

    Lesnar went into the fight not only with top wrestling but an increased level of bjj...I'm not saying he got ok BJJ then either...we never had to see his bjj defence really cuz Mir didn't attempt many subs cuz he got pounded on for so long

    We can not look at only one fight to praise or condemn a style cuz its just that one fight...only when mma was purely one style uses vs. One style users could we find out which was better(ironic)...but even that was flawed I'm many ways

    Only thing that is for sure that once one fighter no matter the style starts to cross train in another syle but also keeps the tools he had in his base style does he have an advantage over the one style uses...for example Kos
    Idk why but it will not let me edit my post...I mean by using Kos as a example is he started to learn boxing but his wrestling dropped alot...same goes for Hendo
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  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Posts: 1,234Free
    Wow these forums actually support a new excuse on why Diaz lost every day. He lost because he's by far a worse cage fighter. His corner tells him to go for broke in the last round and he walks in circles taunting instead.. The guy is a joke, who embarrassed himself almost as much as his brother against Bendo. The fact that Hendricks could easily catch Condit with shorter reach is proof of this. I'm sure even the Diaz fans cringed when he tried to insinuate he lost because of the time zone changes.

    P.S GSP was more dominant back when he was a broke nobody.

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  • StompGrindStompGrind Posts: 21,326Free
    edited March 2013



    The overrated aspect of jiu jitsu shows itself- whenever a good athlete knows what to look for, jiu jitsu doesn't work.

    Lmao, you can't be serious. Jiu-jitsu isn't just submissions and the guard you know. Pure Jiu-jitsu alone is not enough though you must bring a mixed game ( just like wrestling is set-up by striking to be more effective ) which makes BJJ easier unless you are just way way more advanced pure grappler then everyone else and have a great deal of experience against GnP and dealing with other grappling styles. Anyway this is mixed martial arts and nothing is in a bubble. Jiu-Jitsu is effective and always will be, depends on the practioner and how well they apply it.

    That's kind of like saying if boxing had a lot of point fighting long range boxers who won a lot of decisions then you go ahead and make the false assumption that in-fighting and sluggers are obsolete which just isn't true and never will be.

    EVERYONE in mma is using Jiu-jitsu. Ofcorurse when two fighters are evenly matched skill wise in jiu-jitsu the better athlete has the advantage.

    If you need an example though where better Jiu-Jitsu beats a great athlete with decent Jiu-Jitsu i guarantee Vinny Magalhaes would have snapped Jones arm in that Vitor armbar situation and Jones is by far the better athlete.
    Darksjeik said:


    i actually agree, it's the least affective aspect of mma once guys know what there doing been saying it for a long time.

    That statement can be made of any other aspect. Two great wrestlers can nullify each others wrestling. Same for Muaythai etc.




    Post edited by StompGrind on
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