Kim Winslow on the Zingano-Tate stoppage

MMALivesHereMMALivesHere Posts: 80Free
Cat Zingano stopped Miesha Tate in the final round of the fight of the night at the UFC TUF 17 finale last weekend. She did so with a brutal series of knees followed by a thunderous elbow, but some have said the stoppage was early. Their argument is that although Tate was hurt, she had dropped for a takedown to avoid more damage. If that’s true, the stoppage was indeed early, as shooting for a takedown would qualify as intelligent defense. The referee for that bout was Kim Winslow, who’s no stranger to controversy. Tate levelled a barrage of criticism at Winslow after the fight, but the referee is not about to apologise. While Winslow can’t comment on individual decisions, she had this to say to US Combat Sports:

“I will tell you what I tell all my fighters in the pre-fight one-on-ones. If I say, ‘Fight back, you are in imminent danger of me stopping your fight and you have to give me a reason not to,’ if you respond to the command and show that you can intelligently defend yourself I will let it continue whether or not your attempts are successful. It is on you to continue to try until you are out of danger or the round has ended. When you stop attempting to get out of the situation or just go back to what got you warned in the first place, it’s your way of letting me know you have had enough and I am coming in to stop it. How much time I give you is always dependent on the amount of damage you are taking. Safety is the first priority and it’s my job to make sure you come back to fight another day if you choose to.’”

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  • i_run_thisi_run_this Posts: 19,277Free
    didn't read cuz its kim winslow
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  • PoloRidahPoloRidah Posts: 11,136Free
    I think the stoppage was justified. Tate was taking some serious damage. The knees Cat was landing were brutal.
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  • wedo619wedo619 Posts: 1,216Free
    edited April 2013
    BruteDion said:

    And that's why Kim was wrong...she said he expects the fighter to do something that will get them out of danger which does not include the very act that got them in danger in the first place

    What he is inferring is that the TD attempt didn't matter cuz she felt the TDs are what got her in danger in the first place

    That is wrong on two fronts....

    1. It is not kims job to determine what course of action a fight should take to defend themselves

    2. Kim lacks the mma knowledge to know what a fighter would normally do when backed against a wall and is taking alot of damage

    - most of the good refs know what a fighter is trained to do to defend themselves when they are hurt...and one of the defend yourself 101 is going for a TD...Kim is very lacking in MMA know how it seems...most of the refs will change up how they handle a situation based of the figheters skills in the ring after also talking to thay fighter in the back..any fighters will tell the ref what they prefer to happen if a situation arises (I.e Randy wants a lot of time if hes hurt/Sapp wants little time if hes hurt)....I'm not saying Tate told her to cut it short or let it go...but Kim should know that Tate is in deed a Wrestler and if she shoots for a TD when hurt she is still there

    to bad tate got dropped by knees followed by a punch and was not attempting a takedown here watch as much as you would like
    Post edited by wedo619 on
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  • wedo619wedo619 Posts: 1,216Free
    umm damn uploads
    zinganotatefinish.gif
    320 x 180 - 8M
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  • KeemKeem Posts: 6,862Free
    edited April 2013
    Im sure Meisha would of came back and props to her, but that was like 4 straight knees on target; too much damage taken in that one inpartucular instance in an already high octane kind of fight
    Post edited by Keem on
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  • BlackziliansBlackzilians Posts: 565Free
    people say that Tate was shooting for a takedown......... but seriously whats a single leg takedown going to do when Cat is on the hunt and Tate is trying to recover I kinda agree with the stop but UFC and Dana need to stop with this Winslow business.
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  • PoloRidahPoloRidah Posts: 11,136Free

    people say that Tate was shooting for a takedown......... but seriously whats a single leg takedown going to do when Cat is on the hunt and Tate is trying to recover I kinda agree with the stop but UFC and Dana need to stop with this Winslow business.

    I'm pretty sure Dana and the UFC don't chose who ref's the fights. That is the athletic commision.
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  • OmoplataypusOmoplataypus BostonPosts: 4,534Free
    Bigfoot, I mean Kim Winslow, was right. IMO Meisha got dropped by that Hellbow more than she was shooting for a TD.

    Good stoppage and Meisha needs to stop being va.ginahurt about it.
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  • wedo619wedo619 Posts: 1,216Free

    Bigfoot, I mean Kim Winslow, was right. IMO Meisha got dropped by that Hellbow more than she was shooting for a TD.

    Good stoppage and Meisha needs to stop being va.ginahurt about it.

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  • _Finish_Him__Finish_Him_ Posts: 11,533Free
    The Elbow lands right on her blocked hands ,She was shooting for TD maybe hurt as F*** but not done yet! Kim Winslow isnt a really good ref her octagon or cage orders takes nobody series good example last WE how often is a fighter aloud 2 hold the cage man do something about it, blanco i guess ,holding da cage 4 his life 6-7 times at least and she let it go and how can she stop 2 welterweights or even flyweights...cmon! its a combat sport...
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  • BlackziliansBlackzilians Posts: 565Free
    Galvanik said:

    Kim Winslow: bad ref, good stoppage. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    quote of the wise

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  • MaximumBobMaximumBob Posts: 1,288Free

    Tate can take an insane amount of punishment without tapping, she refused to tap against Rousey who then broke her arm.

    Was she getting smashed by Cingano, yes. Was she out, no. Could she have continued, who knows, but given the importance of the fight, and the fact that Tate seems oblivious to pain, she should have been given more time.

    If Tate is absolutely adamant, as she is, that the stoppage was premature, i'm not going to argue against her.
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  • zaksamezaksame Posts: 4,340Free
    That was a total BS comment by Winslow,which proves that she knew she made a bad call.
    Winslow was already moving in before there was any REASON to ask Tate to defend herself.

    Using her **** analogy,so if two fighters were just standing there facing off ,she could yell out ,fight back,if neither does ,she could stop the fight ..lol.Furthermore ,if she has ANY clue about the fight game or ANY sports for that matter,those athletes seldom if EVER hear outside noise,their concentration level is too focused on the task at hand,not on listening to the ref.
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  • PabloskyPablosky Posts: 674Free
    edited April 2013
    its kinda complicated to me to give an opinion here... first i agree to brutedion and zaksame (which its showing a lot of communication skills and knowledge in his post....its always a good thing!).

    Second i think the main reason in martial arts or combat sports to have a ref inside the right its to protect from innecesary or illegal damage, so i preffer a bad calling than a serius injury maybe death.

    But in the last term, when you're fighting and you got rocket you get in a selfprotective mode, nothing rational or something that can be communicated like "OK REF IM FINE HERE" you just wanna survive and then try to gain some momentum... so the fighters got to fight until they feel they can... a perfect example of this was the STRUVE vs HUNT fight, WHAT A FIGHT MY FRIENDS! struve, IMHO, fought until the pain was uncontrolable and went down and got this hands down, but then man was completly ON... not KO'ed or whatsoever...

    so BAD STOPPAGE (cat fight) ... but sometimes this is better than a late stoppage...

    (im getting kinda **** lately because ive felt so much pain in my kickboxing training that im thinking retiring practicing MMA hehehehe)
    Post edited by Pablosky on
    thanks god im less stupid now!

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  • BruteDionBruteDion Posts: 10,485Free

    people say that Tate was shooting for a takedown......... but seriously whats a single leg takedown going to do when Cat is on the hunt and Tate is trying to recover I kinda agree with the stop but UFC and Dana need to stop with this Winslow business.

    it does not matter if the TD would have been successful...its not the refs job to determine the outcome of what a OFFENSIVE move will do...the rules say the fight should he stopped if a fighter can't defend themselves intelligently...

    Tate was trained just like everyone else that if your in a bad spot against the cage you shoot for a TD...and thats what she did

    I don't think she would have got the TD either...but that matter little...who knows what would have happened if it was not stopped...im happy Cat won...and I hope she beats ronda...but a ref who gets in the job of predicting the outcome of a move is going to make bad calls over amd over...remind me whats Kim's rep in MMA as a ref again?
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  • OmoplataypusOmoplataypus BostonPosts: 4,534Free
    edited April 2013
    BruteDion said:

    people say that Tate was shooting for a takedown......... but seriously whats a single leg takedown going to do when Cat is on the hunt and Tate is trying to recover I kinda agree with the stop but UFC and Dana need to stop with this Winslow business.

    ...remind me whats Kim's rep in MMA as a ref again?
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  • IdentityIdentity Posts: 6,842Free
    Just watched it and she was taking brutal knee's and a nice elbow but she weren't out and could of carried on and maybe even won the fight. There was way too much on the line for stop's like that
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  • Oh_NoOh_No Posts: 114Free
    Anyone who thinks this was an early stoppage is an idiot.
  • Yesterdays_HeroYesterdays_Hero Posts: 23,567Free
    Kim is a terrible ref and the stoppage was just up to her standards. Plus it looked like Miesha had her hand down for a knee making it illegal.
  • johnbean83johnbean83 Posts: 1Free
    If Kim didn't stop the fight, the doctors probably would have. Did anyone see the blood pouring from Miesha's face?
  • ijosefijosef Posts: 1,633Free
    I believe it was a premature stoppage. If Kim Winslow wanted to stop it because of the strikes, she should have done so after they landed. Instead, she waits until Tate shoots a failed single leg takedown before stopping it. If she had been paying attention, she also could've separated the two fighters after Cat landed the illegal knee and given Tate time to recover. Still, Cat had the momentum and very well could've finished the fight anyway. Then again, Tate could've survived the round and taken a split decision. We'll never know because of yet another subpar officiating performance turned in my Kim Winslow.

    Either way, I think a rematch between these two would be an exciting fight in the future.
  • ijosefijosef Posts: 1,633Free
    edited April 2013
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    I guess I can't complain about the missed foul - it happened so fast that I didn't even see it the first time I watched the fight. Even the best referees can't see everything. Besides, I wanted Cat to win the fight (although I would've liked to see Miesha and Ronda go at each other in TUF 18).
    Post edited by ijosef on
  • Gabri1985Gabri1985 Manchester, England Posts: 7,695Free
    It was a good stoppage Tate was getting brutalised, it was the td attempt of the desperate, the ref saved her from getting knocked out cold.
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  • WalkLikeAWarrior707WalkLikeAWarrior707 Posts: 6,003Free
    Here's my take. Tate was taking punishment but still fighting back when she could. After the series of knees than the elbow it looked like Tate dropped fromm that last elbow. Kim stepped in because it looked like she got dropped but IMO it looked like she was going for a takedown. Kim could have let it go on a little longer but I think Cat would have just took her out anyway and Tate would have took some unnecasry pusnishment.

    Good call IMO but she could have let it on a tad bit longer
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  • IdentityIdentity Posts: 6,842Free
    **** just look at Kongo vs Barry to what would happen if you have a little patience
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