is p4p a stupid concept?

SistiSisti Posts: 5,312Free
Who cares who is a better fighter pound for pound? only one thing should matter, WHO IS THE BETTER FIGHTER

Why does MMA just randomly care about p4p. why don't we also say who is the better fighter "age by age," "practice time by practice time," "reach by reach." The bottom line is that there are a lot of factors that make you win a fight, and it's retarded to take away the advantage of weight and try to act like MM is as good of a fighter as Machida p4p when we know Machida's weight is a huge reason why he is a much better fighter
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  • SistiSisti Posts: 5,312Free
    waikru said:

    The "Jon Jones only fight's 185's and retirees? Why is he #2 P4P..." thread has made you gotten to.

    nah, just a concept i thought about. it's funny how p4p is such a huge trend when ufc started on the premise of no weight classes, let's just see who the ultimate fighter is

    could you think of a reason why weight can't be used to help you win a fight, but skill level and athleticism should? all are factors that give you an edge
  • waikruwaikru UFC PresidentPosts: 10,003Free
    Sisti said:

    waikru said:

    The "Jon Jones only fight's 185's and retirees? Why is he #2 P4P..." thread has made you gotten to.

    nah, just a concept i thought about. it's funny how p4p is such a huge trend when ufc started on the premise of no weight classes, let's just see who the ultimate fighter is

    could you think of a reason why weight can't be used to help you win a fight, but skill level and athleticism should? all are factors that give you an edge
    Yeah, weight can be used to smother your opponents to a three round decision. Nobody would cut weight if it offered no advantages.
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  • SistiSisti Posts: 5,312Free
    waikru said:

    Sisti said:

    waikru said:

    The "Jon Jones only fight's 185's and retirees? Why is he #2 P4P..." thread has made you gotten to.

    nah, just a concept i thought about. it's funny how p4p is such a huge trend when ufc started on the premise of no weight classes, let's just see who the ultimate fighter is

    could you think of a reason why weight can't be used to help you win a fight, but skill level and athleticism should? all are factors that give you an edge
    Yeah, weight can be used to smother your opponents to a three round decision. Nobody would cut weight if it offered no advantages.
    the advantage is to fight smaller guys because those guys weigh less and therefore have a disadvantage

    weight also is a huge factor in power
  • bluesybluesy Posts: 2,841Free
    It matters because MMA is a legit sport and not Mortal Kombat.
  • _Finish_Him__Finish_Him_ Posts: 11,585Free
    bluesy said:

    It matters because MMA is a legit sport and not Mortal Kombat.

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  • SteelerNation43SteelerNation43 Posts: 12,654Free
    edited June 2013
    Thats pretty much what P4P means though....who is the best fighter in the world based on their skills and record.

    people who think otherwise are just plain wrong.
    Post edited by SteelerNation43 on
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  • wedo619wedo619 Posts: 1,253Free

    Thats pretty much what P4P means though....who is the best fighter in the world based on their skills and record.

    people who think otherwise are just plain wrong.

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  • wedo619wedo619 Posts: 1,253Free
    OP the P4P concept isnt stupid .your are too stupid to understand what the p4p concept is/means
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  • PunchBagPunchBag Posts: 7,824Free
    its stupid, but no doubt silva is the GOAT
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  • SistiSisti Posts: 5,312Free
    wedo619 said:

    OP the P4P concept isnt stupid .your are too stupid to understand what the p4p concept is/means

    so is ur goal to just be a jerkoff to someone you don't even know when they did nothing bad at all to u?
  • TahuneTahune Posts: 1,879Free
    It works better for boxing maybe?
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  • KOTMFKOTMF Posts: 348Free

    Thats pretty much what P4P means though....who is the best fighter in the world based on their skills and record.

    people who think otherwise are just plain wrong.

    It's not just their skills and record, you have to factor everything in, or else, why would the word "pound" be in there if weight wasn't considered. I've said this before, in order to properly put P4P into rankings, you'd have to have them fight at the same weight. For example, if two guys weigh the same then you know who is better for that "pound/weight". Just to put it into perspective, if a human fought an ant at the same weight, the ant would be better and stronger P4P, obviously at our current sizes the ant would just get crushed, but pound for pound the ant is stronger and if it were our size, we'd be no match for it.
  • SteelerNation43SteelerNation43 Posts: 12,654Free
    edited June 2013
    KOTMF said:

    Thats pretty much what P4P means though....who is the best fighter in the world based on their skills and record.

    people who think otherwise are just plain wrong.

    It's not just their skills and record, you have to factor everything in, or else, why would the word "pound" be in there if weight wasn't considered. I've said this before, in order to properly put P4P into rankings, you'd have to have them fight at the same weight. For example, if two guys weigh the same then you know who is better for that "pound/weight". Just to put it into perspective, if a human fought an ant at the same weight, the ant would be better and stronger P4P, obviously at our current sizes the ant would just get crushed, but pound for pound the ant is stronger and if it were our size, we'd be no match for it.


    The whole reason for the term P4P is to ELIMINATE weight. Take it out of the equation since it would obviously be unfair to compare a HW fighter to a LW fighter.



    Post edited by SteelerNation43 on
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  • SteelerNation43SteelerNation43 Posts: 12,654Free

    KOTMF said:

    Thats pretty much what P4P means though....who is the best fighter in the world based on their skills and record.

    people who think otherwise are just plain wrong.

    It's not just their skills and record, you have to factor everything in, or else, why would the word "pound" be in there if weight wasn't considered. I've said this before, in order to properly put P4P into rankings, you'd have to have them fight at the same weight. For example, if two guys weigh the same then you know who is better for that "pound/weight". Just to put it into perspective, if a human fought an ant at the same weight, the ant would be better and stronger P4P, obviously at our current sizes the ant would just get crushed, but pound for pound the ant is stronger and if it were our size, we'd be no match for it.


    The whole reason for the term P4P is to ELIMINATE weight. Take it out of the equation since it would obviously be unfair to compare a HW fighter to a LW fighter.



    When you do this all you're pretty much left with is Skills and record (including type of guys you fought, their style and the way you've beaten them)
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  • carnages41carnages41 Posts: 36,269Free
    Yes it does make sense, especially when you have oversized fighters like Jones and GSP ruling their divisions
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  • KOTMFKOTMF Posts: 348Free

    KOTMF said:

    Thats pretty much what P4P means though....who is the best fighter in the world based on their skills and record.

    people who think otherwise are just plain wrong.

    It's not just their skills and record, you have to factor everything in, or else, why would the word "pound" be in there if weight wasn't considered. I've said this before, in order to properly put P4P into rankings, you'd have to have them fight at the same weight. For example, if two guys weigh the same then you know who is better for that "pound/weight". Just to put it into perspective, if a human fought an ant at the same weight, the ant would be better and stronger P4P, obviously at our current sizes the ant would just get crushed, but pound for pound the ant is stronger and if it were our size, we'd be no match for it.


    The whole reason for the term P4P is to ELIMINATE weight. Take it out of the equation since it would obviously be unfair to compare a HW fighter to a LW fighter.



    When you do this all you're pretty much left with is Skills and record (including type of guys you fought, their style and the way you've beaten them)
    I understand and that is correct, but what i'm saying is that until the guys fight, it's hard to say for sure who is the best. Because the UFC can't have fights between guys of all weight classes, using who they beat and their skills is just a guess at who people think is the best P4P fighter, you can't say for certain. That's why this list can vary in people's minds. It's easier to compare fighters who are of similar weight, but a lot harder from one extreme to the other. I just see P4P differently in my head. I see it as including weight, but I can see the theoretical way that you describe of eliminating weight and taking every other factor into account, which is a lot harder to rank.
  • SteelerNation43SteelerNation43 Posts: 12,654Free
    edited June 2013
    KOTMF said:

    KOTMF said:

    Thats pretty much what P4P means though....who is the best fighter in the world based on their skills and record.

    people who think otherwise are just plain wrong.

    It's not just their skills and record, you have to factor everything in, or else, why would the word "pound" be in there if weight wasn't considered. I've said this before, in order to properly put P4P into rankings, you'd have to have them fight at the same weight. For example, if two guys weigh the same then you know who is better for that "pound/weight". Just to put it into perspective, if a human fought an ant at the same weight, the ant would be better and stronger P4P, obviously at our current sizes the ant would just get crushed, but pound for pound the ant is stronger and if it were our size, we'd be no match for it.


    The whole reason for the term P4P is to ELIMINATE weight. Take it out of the equation since it would obviously be unfair to compare a HW fighter to a LW fighter.



    When you do this all you're pretty much left with is Skills and record (including type of guys you fought, their style and the way you've beaten them)
    I understand and that is correct, but what i'm saying is that until the guys fight, it's hard to say for sure who is the best. Because the UFC can't have fights between guys of all weight classes, using who they beat and their skills is just a guess at who people think is the best P4P fighter, you can't say for certain. That's why this list can vary in people's minds. It's easier to compare fighters who are of similar weight, but a lot harder from one extreme to the other. I just see P4P differently in my head. I see it as including weight, but I can see the theoretical way that you describe of eliminating weight and taking every other factor into account, which is a lot harder to rank.
    While i agree its harder I also don't take it as something to be set in stone.

    its more of just a talking point to me.

    That's why i think some people have a hard time conceptualizing it. they're looking at it too literally.
    Post edited by SteelerNation43 on
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  • bluesybluesy Posts: 2,841Free
    KOTMF said:

    KOTMF said:

    Thats pretty much what P4P means though....who is the best fighter in the world based on their skills and record.

    people who think otherwise are just plain wrong.

    It's not just their skills and record, you have to factor everything in, or else, why would the word "pound" be in there if weight wasn't considered. I've said this before, in order to properly put P4P into rankings, you'd have to have them fight at the same weight. For example, if two guys weigh the same then you know who is better for that "pound/weight". Just to put it into perspective, if a human fought an ant at the same weight, the ant would be better and stronger P4P, obviously at our current sizes the ant would just get crushed, but pound for pound the ant is stronger and if it were our size, we'd be no match for it.


    The whole reason for the term P4P is to ELIMINATE weight. Take it out of the equation since it would obviously be unfair to compare a HW fighter to a LW fighter.



    When you do this all you're pretty much left with is Skills and record (including type of guys you fought, their style and the way you've beaten them)
    I understand and that is correct, but what i'm saying is that until the guys fight, it's hard to say for sure who is the best. Because the UFC can't have fights between guys of all weight classes, using who they beat and their skills is just a guess at who people think is the best P4P fighter, you can't say for certain. That's why this list can vary in people's minds. It's easier to compare fighters who are of similar weight, but a lot harder from one extreme to the other. I just see P4P differently in my head. I see it as including weight, but I can see the theoretical way that you describe of eliminating weight and taking every other factor into account, which is a lot harder to rank.
    Up until they finally start having real superfights, it's all just theory and consensus opinion. The only way to truly legitimize the title is to settle things at a CW, which is what they've been trying to do for a while. Right now, they have two of those on the table. Silva vs. Jones will probably happen if Dana let's it happen, but the problem is he's a notorious carrot-dangler and a **** moron. Silva vs. GSP, on the other hand, probably won't happen because Georges thinks it's easier to cut to 155lbs.

    So, in other words: the brothers are game and whitey want none.
  • MegasoupMegasoup Maker of SoupsPosts: 2,386Free
    The concept of who is the best "pound for pound" isn't stupid, but it shouldn't be paid nearly as much attention to as it seems to be on these forums. A fighter being larger isn't necessarily fighting unfair. If a small guy started talking trash to me at a bar and I knocked his teeth out, it wouldn't be a matter of "fairness." He shouldn't have been talking trash.

    They have weight classes so that more people can participate in the sport. If he didn't have to cut weight, Mighty Mouse still wouldn't not going to be competitive with anyone in the UFC currently fighting at welterweight or above (who also wouldn't be cutting weight,) no matter how much muscle or size he managed to pack on.

    So, it evens the playing field for people who are not genetically gifted with size and strength.

    There are no weight classes in basketball or track or any other sport. There is no handicap given to musicians or artists who aren't very creative. FIghting sports are the only ones that do it. I like it, though. It helps make the sport more interesting. But at the end of the day, the Heavyweight Champion is the best fighter in the world.
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  • HellequinHellequin In my car with the garage door closedPosts: 4,165Free
    Sisti said:

    Who cares who is a better fighter pound for pound? only one thing should matter, WHO IS THE BETTER FIGHTER

    Why does MMA just randomly care about p4p. why don't we also say who is the better fighter "age by age," "practice time by practice time," "reach by reach." The bottom line is that there are a lot of factors that make you win a fight, and it's retarded to take away the advantage of weight and try to act like MM is as good of a fighter as Machida p4p when we know Machida's weight is a huge reason why he is a much better fighter

    Yes p4p is a stupid concept.
  • _Finish_Him__Finish_Him_ Posts: 11,585Free
    It's not there will always be a P4P list, and why not! Obviousy Aldo will never fight Cain... but to compare em to their skills is fun!
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  • Yesterdays_HeroYesterdays_Hero Posts: 23,619Free

    It's not there will always be a P4P list, and why not! Obviousy Aldo will never fight Cain... but to compare em to their skills is fun!

    Because it's stoopid. It assumes guys are the same sizes, which they aren't and is stupid to do because different body types are apart of the sport.
  • JunglebirdJunglebird Posts: 9,741Free
    The only people who dont like the concept or pretend to be too stupid to understand it are the people who dont agree with it's rankings.


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  • _Finish_Him__Finish_Him_ Posts: 11,585Free

    It's not there will always be a P4P list, and why not! Obviousy Aldo will never fight Cain... but to compare em to their skills is fun!

    Because it's stoopid. It assumes guys are the same sizes, which they aren't and is stupid to do because different body types are apart of the sport.
    Yeah that's true but you can say that anderson is p4p #1 and jones #2 and so on, it's legit! We'll never know how aldo will do vs Silva, but p4p list is useful!

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  • PunchBagPunchBag Posts: 7,824Free
    edited June 2013
    instead of using the term p4p lets just use anderson silva
    Post edited by PunchBag on
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  • KeemKeem Posts: 6,862Free
    Sisti said:

    Who cares who is a better fighter pound for pound? only one thing should matter, WHO IS THE BETTER FIGHTER

    Why does MMA just randomly care about p4p. why don't we also say who is the better fighter "age by age," "practice time by practice time," "reach by reach." The bottom line is that there are a lot of factors that make you win a fight, and it's retarded to take away the advantage of weight and try to act like MM is as good of a fighter as Machida p4p when we know Machida's weight is a huge reason why he is a much better fighter

    Fighters fight and people watch to see who is the best in the world

    P4P represents the best fighter despite weight classes that prevent some fighters from competing against one another

    No on has to care, but for those who do they are usually participates, fans and followers of the sport. Like any sport
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