Mighty Mouse p4p ranking

keykey Posts: 371Free
Apologies if a repost.

I know p4p is a debatable concept so I'm referring to it in a way of how they measure up in different divisions not if everybody was of equal weight.
DJ is arguably top 5 in two or three divisions and is dominating the FlyW division. I personally don't think many fighters can match that - Anderson has dropped, Gsp i don't think would be as dominant at MW, Aldo? Belfort maybe could.

So where do you currently rank him? I think he is a strong top 5.
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  • carnages41carnages41 Posts: 36,269Free
    #1
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  • Cole1186Cole1186 Posts: 3,721Free
    I say he is below all these guys:

    Anderson
    Jones
    Aldo
    GSP
    Cain
    JDS
    Benson
    Cruz
    Bararo

    Then mighty mouse.

    So top 10, but number 10.
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  • OmoplataypusOmoplataypus BostonPosts: 4,607Free
    Cole1186 said:

    I say he is below all these guys:

    Anderson
    Jones
    Aldo
    GSP
    Cain
    JDS
    Benson
    Cruz
    Bararo

    Then mighty mouse.

    So top 10, but number 10.

    I'd put MM above Cruz (who could easily make FW) and JDS.
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  • keykey Posts: 371Free
    Cole1186 said:

    I say he is below all these guys:

    Anderson
    Jones
    Aldo
    GSP
    Cain
    JDS
    Benson
    Cruz
    Bararo

    Then mighty mouse.

    So top 10, but number 10.

    Wow that is quite far down lol. I think you showed just how difficult a concept p4p really is to be honest. Personally I don't believe Bendo would do well at the division above therefore should not be ranked higher than DJ who I believe could.

    As for JDS he is not champ and can only fight at HW so I don't believe he should be recognized as top 10.

    Strong line up though maybe Barao over Cruz if i was to make a criticism.

    #1

    I like the enthusiasm but maybe a tad optimistic

  • Cole1186Cole1186 Posts: 3,721Free

    Cole1186 said:

    I say he is below all these guys:

    Anderson
    Jones
    Aldo
    GSP
    Cain
    JDS
    Benson
    Cruz
    Bararo

    Then mighty mouse.

    So top 10, but number 10.

    I'd put MM above Cruz (who could easily make FW) and JDS.
    That's tough because Cruz beat mighty mouse already, and it really wasnt a close fight.
    key said:

    Cole1186 said:

    I say he is below all these guys:

    Anderson
    Jones
    Aldo
    GSP
    Cain
    JDS
    Benson
    Cruz
    Bararo

    Then mighty mouse.

    So top 10, but number 10.

    Wow that is quite far down lol. I think you showed just how difficult a concept p4p really is to be honest. Personally I don't believe Bendo would do well at the division above therefore should not be ranked higher than DJ who I believe could.

    As for JDS he is not champ and can only fight at HW so I don't believe he should be recognized as top 10.

    Strong line up though maybe Barao over Cruz if i was to make a criticism.

    #1

    I like the enthusiasm but maybe a tad optimistic

    There is a difference in opinion primarily because of everyone's different interpretation of what we should look for when analyzing the p4p definition. I believe pound for pound means how your skills would translate in other weight classes if the fighter in question physically adapts, proportionately to said weight class, while retaining the same skill set. Example: if Anderson weighed 125 pounds and proportionately kept the same physical characteristics as he has now, how well would he do? He would still be the slickest on the feet, have power, be taller and have reach over most of his opponents, have great bjj, above average TDD, etc. Get what I'm saying about my definition of p4p?

    Mighty mouse doesn't have power to finish with strikes at 125/135, so in theory he would be a weak stiker at any weight class. This is in comparison to other fighters who are born with the power to knock you out with one strike of course. Benson would beat might mouse IMO if he was the same fighter, just bigger. And JDS would beat mouse if JDS was smaller IMO. Tdd is too good and his hands are too slick. But you never know mouse has one hell of a chin....
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  • najmanajma Posts: 2,038Free
    Cole1186 said:

    I say he is below all these guys:
    Anderson
    Jones
    Aldo
    GSP
    Cain
    JDS
    Benson
    Cruz
    Bararo

    Your list sucks monkey dicks. It's just a list of champions and not a list of the best fighters.

    Jones has weak striking, only wins by overpowering smaller opponents. Evans and Machida are way better fighters at LHW.
    JDS is one dimensional, his grappling offence is non-existent, his grappling defence is weak.
    Cain fights in the least talented division against guys who are fat, slow and have limited skils. He'd be a nobody at LW or WW.
    Benson isn't even the best at his weight class. Let's be real here. He doesn't impress.

    Johnson is well above these guys.

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  • wanderleisilva101wanderleisilva101 Posts: 9,402Free
    I'm not sure where he should rank tbh but personally I wouldn't have him that high, the flyweight still needs more talent and DJ had some losses when he was in a deeper division at BW
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  • Cole1186Cole1186 Posts: 3,721Free
    najma said:

    Cole1186 said:

    I say he is below all these guys:
    Anderson
    Jones
    Aldo
    GSP
    Cain
    JDS
    Benson
    Cruz
    Bararo

    Your list sucks monkey dicks. It's just a list of champions and not a list of the best fighters.

    Jones has weak striking, only wins by overpowering smaller opponents. Evans and Machida are way better fighters at LHW.
    JDS is one dimensional, his grappling offence is non-existent, his grappling defence is weak.
    Cain fights in the least talented division against guys who are fat, slow and have limited skils. He'd be a nobody at LW or WW.
    Benson isn't even the best at his weight class. Let's be real here. He doesn't impress.

    Johnson is well above these guys.

    Did you read what you just said.... A list of champions but not the best fighters..... Ummm helllloo the champs ARE the best fighters because they have beat the best to become champ. Was crack your mothers drug of choice when she was pregnant with you?
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  • keykey Posts: 371Free
    Cole1186 said:



    There is a difference in opinion primarily because of everyone's different interpretation of what we should look for when analyzing the p4p definition. I believe pound for pound means how your skills would translate in other weight classes if the fighter in question physically adapts, proportionately to said weight class, while retaining the same skill set. Example: if Anderson weighed 125 pounds and proportionately kept the same physical characteristics as he has now, how well would he do? He would still be the slickest on the feet, have power, be taller and have reach over most of his opponents, have great bjj, above average TDD, etc. Get what I'm saying about my definition of p4p?

    Mighty mouse doesn't have power to finish with strikes at 125/135, so in theory he would be a weak stiker at any weight class. This is in comparison to other fighters who are born with the power to knock you out with one strike of course. Benson would beat might mouse IMO if he was the same fighter, just bigger. And JDS would beat mouse if JDS was smaller IMO. Tdd is too good and his hands are too slick. But you never know mouse has one hell of a chin....

    Yeah I see what your saying, Anderson has already proved a great WW a world class MW and a good LHW which is why i rank him so highly. But it is that proof which defines my p4p list.

    Using your definition, If MM were the size of say Frankie Edgar I think he would be more successful than Edgar was. His takedowns are superior, his hands are fast (with the lack of power) and he also has a decent reach for a small lad which will allow him to continue to use those hands. The Benavidez fight showed DJ's skills against a power hitter and how he can adapt, a skill which would do him no harm in a fight where size would be proportional.

    I think MM does well in both definitions but you are probably right that he would be a bit further down.
  • Cole1186Cole1186 Posts: 3,721Free
    najma said:

    Cole1186 said:

    I say he is below all these guys:
    Anderson
    Jones
    Aldo
    GSP
    Cain
    JDS
    Benson
    Cruz
    Bararo

    Your list sucks monkey dicks. It's just a list of champions and not a list of the best fighters.

    Jones has weak striking, only wins by overpowering smaller opponents. Evans and Machida are way better fighters at LHW.
    JDS is one dimensional, his grappling offence is non-existent, his grappling defence is weak.
    Cain fights in the least talented division against guys who are fat, slow and have limited skils. He'd be a nobody at LW or WW.
    Benson isn't even the best at his weight class. Let's be real here. He doesn't impress.

    Johnson is well above these guys.

    In not even going to get into the garbageu just spewed out, ur not worth my time kid.
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  • najmanajma Posts: 2,038Free
    Cole1186 said:


    Did you read what you just said.... A list of champions but not the best fighters..... Ummm helllloo the champs ARE the best fighters because they have beat the best to become champ.

    So where's Weidman? He's a champion, right? LOL.
    You are not a smart person. Let me explain this to you:

    You base your nonsense list on a silly assumption that every no.1 guy in any division is always by default better than the no.2 guy from any other division. This is obviously nonsense. Which you yourself admit by placing Silva on the list and not Weidman.
    A talented division may have 3, 4 or even more fighters that are better than the champion from a less talented division.

    Let's say Hendricks beats GSP. So suddenly Barao, Cain and Jones are better P4P fighters than GSP who suddenly isn't one of the 8 best fighters only because he's now the no.2 guy at WW? Use your brain.

    You contradict yourself in your list, because Anderson Silva isn't a champion anymore, yet you put him on the list! You didn't put Weidman, who is a champion. You simply don't use your brain, dude. Do something with it.

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  • PunchBagPunchBag Posts: 7,824Free
    edited July 2013
    if everyone was a flyweight DJ would beat all of them hence hes number 1 p4p
    Post edited by PunchBag on
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  • GSP_over_SilvaGSP_over_Silva Posts: 12,185Free
    Cole1186 said:

    I say he is below all these guys:

    Anderson
    Jones
    Aldo
    GSP
    Cain
    JDS
    Benson
    Cruz
    Bararo

    Then mighty mouse.

    So top 10, but number 10.

    So, you just made a thread saying Aldo is the best, but is #3? LMAO. Oh, God. What is this fuckery? Well, anyways. This is my list:


    1.) Frankie Edgar
    2.) BJ Penn
    3.) Nick Diaz
    4.) Shogun Rua
    5.) Robbie Lawler
    6.) JDS
    7.) Cain Velasquez
    8.) Chael Sonnen
    9.) Mighty Mouse
    10.) Dominick Cruz
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  • najmanajma Posts: 2,038Free


    So, you just made a thread saying Aldo is the best, but is #3? LMAO. Oh, God. What is this fuckery? Well, anyways. This is my list:

    Exactly. The guy has a hard time putting an organized thought process together.

    Well, anyways. This is my list:
    1.) Frankie Edgar
    2.) BJ Penn
    3.) Nick Diaz
    4.) Shogun Rua
    5.) Robbie Lawler
    6.) JDS
    7.) Cain Velasquez
    8.) Chael Sonnen
    9.) Mighty Mouse
    10.) Dominick Cruz

    I may not completely agree with your list but it's still better than the OPs.
    Robbie Lawler? Seriously?

    I can only agree with those guys being high in the p4p rankinga:
    1.) Frankie Edgar
    [ 2.) BJ Penn ] - I'm not sure if he can be considered.
    4.) Shogun Rua
    8.) Chael Sonnen
    9.) Mighty Mouse
    10.) Dominick Cruz
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  • Cole1186Cole1186 Posts: 3,721Free

    Cole1186 said:

    I say he is below all these guys:

    Anderson
    Jones
    Aldo
    GSP
    Cain
    JDS
    Benson
    Cruz
    Bararo

    Then mighty mouse.

    So top 10, but number 10.

    So, you just made a thread saying Aldo is the best, but is #3? LMAO. Oh, God. What is this fuckery? Well, anyways. This is my list:


    1.) Frankie Edgar
    2.) BJ Penn
    3.) Nick Diaz
    4.) Shogun Rua
    5.) Robbie Lawler
    6.) JDS
    7.) Cain Velasquez
    8.) Chael Sonnen
    9.) Mighty Mouse
    10.) Dominick Cruz
    Uhhh I never put them in order........ I literally said he is below all these guys... making him number 10. I never ranked anyone else besides Mighty Mouse pal.
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  • Cole1186Cole1186 Posts: 3,721Free

    Cole1186 said:

    I say he is below all these guys:

    Anderson
    Jones
    Aldo
    GSP
    Cain
    JDS
    Benson
    Cruz
    Bararo

    Then mighty mouse.

    So top 10, but number 10.

    So, you just made a thread saying Aldo is the best, but is #3? LMAO. Oh, God. What is this fuckery? Well, anyways. This is my list:


    1.) Frankie Edgar
    2.) BJ Penn
    3.) Nick Diaz
    4.) Shogun Rua
    5.) Robbie Lawler
    6.) JDS
    7.) Cain Velasquez
    8.) Chael Sonnen
    9.) Mighty Mouse
    10.) Dominick Cruz
    What are you some kind of wise guy?? Frankie number 1 ahahahahha. Then you got two guys who are RETIRED at number 2/3.... Shogun????? Robbie Lawler????? Chael!?!?!

    I can't tell if you are being serious or just silly in the cabeza.
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  • keykey Posts: 371Free
    @Cole1186
    @GSP_over_Silva
    @najma

    The reason I put this in my OP;
    key said:


    I know p4p is a debatable concept

    Was so that you all would not throw hissy fits over other people's lists. As that has clearly not gotten through, I shall reiterate the point of the thread.

    Where do you rank Mighty Mouse in a p4p list?

    Please stay on topic.
  • Cole1186Cole1186 Posts: 3,721Free
    najma said:

    Cole1186 said:


    Did you read what you just said.... A list of champions but not the best fighters..... Ummm helllloo the champs ARE the best fighters because they have beat the best to become champ.

    So where's Weidman? He's a champion, right? LOL.
    You are not a smart person. Let me explain this to you:

    You base your nonsense list on a silly assumption that every no.1 guy in any division is always by default better than the no.2 guy from any other division. This is obviously nonsense. Which you yourself admit by placing Silva on the list and not Weidman.
    A talented division may have 3, 4 or even more fighters that are better than the champion from a less talented division.

    Let's say Hendricks beats GSP. So suddenly Barao, Cain and Jones are better P4P fighters than GSP who suddenly isn't one of the 8 best fighters only because he's now the no.2 guy at WW? Use your brain.

    You contradict yourself in your list, because Anderson Silva isn't a champion anymore, yet you put him on the list! You didn't put Weidman, who is a champion. You simply don't use your brain, dude. Do something with it.

    I did contradict myself about Anderson true. I still think it was a fluke Weidman won and will get finished decisively in the rematch, hence Anderson still being p4p better then the current MW champ Weidman.

    And p4p fighter rankings have to be current... or else Fedor would still be number 1. Hell Royce Gracie would be number 1 if you didn't up-date the rankings for the current times.

    And I base the list on skill/body type/how fighters use their talents. Read my above post describing how I describe p4p ranking. If Jon Jones lost 50 lbs but kept his CONSIDERABLE reach and size advantage, as well as his amazing wrestling, 100% TDD, he would demolish EVERYONE, except maybe Anderson and Aldo (those 3 are so close in my opinion).
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  • najmanajma Posts: 2,038Free
    Cole1186 said:

    Chael!?!?!

    Of course. The guy can beat anybody at MW, which he has. And if he were bigger he'd beat everybody at LHW. He is soon to beat LHW's former champ in Rua.

    You put Anderson Silva on the list. The guy who's skill let him manhandle Silva like a rag doll should clearly be on there as well, doesn't he?
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  • Cole1186Cole1186 Posts: 3,721Free
    edited July 2013
    najma said:

    Cole1186 said:

    Chael!?!?!

    Of course. The guy can beat anybody at MW, which he has. And if he were bigger he'd beat everybody at LHW. He is soon to beat LHW's former champ in Rua.

    You put Anderson Silva on the list. The guy who's skill let him manhandle Silva like a rag doll should clearly be on there as well, doesn't he?
    No. Chael lacks submission defence. He also lost to bisping IMO. And I think Vitor would knock him out. And Anderson already submitted him, and TKO'ed him..... Maia beat him too
    Post edited by Cole1186 on
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  • JDS_over_REEMJDS_over_REEM <This.Posts: 3,285Free
    The womens division is more stacked than flyweight MM shouldn't be in the 10.
    This^

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  • Cole1186Cole1186 Posts: 3,721Free

    The womens division is more stacked than flyweight MM shouldn't be in the 10.

    I think he should be. He does have some really crisp technique. His timing is impeccable, as well as his takedowns and overall speed. If he was heavier/bigger and his attributes carried over to higher weight classes, he would be a problem in every division.
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