JDS' Punching

classicboxerclassicboxer Posts: 11,820Free
It seems to me that JDS lands a lot of punches with the inside of his fist, not turning over enough to land with his knuckles. In boxing, that would be a sign of a fighter with hand problems. I've never heard of him with any broken knuckles in the past. Has anybody else noticed this?
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  • WarWestWarWest Órale VatoPosts: 33,707Free
    Never heard of him injuring his hands

    Maybe injuries from before his UFC days?
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  • SteelerNation43SteelerNation43 Posts: 12,653Free
    edited October 2013
    He just has sloppy technique.

    It sounds like im trolling but its true. Been saying that for a long while.

    Its a big reason why even before the clinching, Cain was first to land while striking.
    Post edited by SteelerNation43 on
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  • BruteDionBruteDion Posts: 10,489Free
    This ain't the first time he has does this...I just never out two and two together...and that's why I lean to you for the boxing knowledge

    If we look back most of his punches have been off...even the ones that KO guys...besides this Upper he landed in Werdum non of them have been perfectly clean
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  • Like the spinning wheel kick that hit with the meat of the calf on the top of a guy's head?... Hunt wasn't even KO'd by it...he basically just retired due to exhaustion and people made a huge deal out of it because you never see a heavyweight try that...for that exact reason. Or when he landed that shot to the back of Cain's head in the first fight. He missed and benefitted from Velasquez turning his head away from him, because he anticipated Junior to go for his chin or his temple.

    He's exactly what you opened with...a puncher. His striking has been vastly overrated since day one. He's got power for days and when he puts his fist on his target he destroys, but he wastes a lot of punches and his tendency to gas shows that. Unfortunately, when you're one dimensional, you don't have much choice but to swing away.
  • MrBisonMrBison Posts: 554Free
    I do see where your coming from OP.. His technique did look very clean against Mir though, but thats just because of how slow Mir is.
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  • StompGrindStompGrind Posts: 21,196Free
    I think it's a product of his style to use range to box & keep distance to aid TDD.

    He uses a milling motion with his lead hand to set up the jab & or left hook off a pawing fencer like stiff jab. That pawing fencer jab is rangy and when the opponents rear hand defense redirects it inside he circles around with the long left hook to the outside over the top of their defense. The long lead left hook he throws is similar to a ridge hand but with a little less circular arc. It is rangier though and his is sort of a hybrid between a jab and long hook but his fist position is similar to shovel hook. That is pretty odd his fist position he lands with the inside of the hand like you said instead of the top knuckles on the hand. I think he does it for added range and for synergy off his jab because they look similar in how he initiates them at first when he's using it offensively and not to counter while back peddling.

    Another reason i think he does it that way is it tends to lift the head up and circle them directly into the path of that big step in overhand right he loves and if they duck straight down or to his right here comes the step in uppercut instead. Yet another reason is it tends to keep his elbow down more in position to get an underhook or fold it in to create a frame to collar tie preventing penetration on shoots.

    The big weakeness with that hook is he throws it very upright and if misses he has no shoulder protection against the cross over the top and he often back peddles leaving his head held high moving out into range on the end of a cross or a hook. Cain exploited that many times but if JDS comes forward and throws his right or left hook from close range he gets clinched or has to deal with a shoot on his legs.

    JDS is at his best when he can get people to stay outside and react defensively going back then trick thier defense to get them to step back or circle out
    to where they're on the end of his step-in pulverizer Rear Overhand/Uppercut/lunging cross shots.

    If they pressure him & keep him on his heels with straight jabs/crosses/clinching/shooting he doesn't have that short range forward pressure counter game AND TDD at the same time to deal with them. He has to sacrifice one or the other against fighters like that and it becomes a puncher's change game that he will lose by either getting out struck or out grappled but he can't defend both and once he gets tired so does his combined speed & power on his punches which makes his puncher's chance even lower percentage.

  • the_enigmathe_enigma Posts: 19,049Premium
    I noticed this also a while ago and in the back of my mind I fhought maybe it was his way of getting more power... taking advantage of the fingerless gloves to hit with the harder exposed knuckles, like knocking ona door but on someone's head... either he likes doing that or he just sucks and is naturally gifted to hit really hard lol
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  • Jason_H.Jason_H. Posts: 2,158Free
    I've noticed it. I just never bother to mention it. He had the same sloppy technique against Hunt as well. It's like an over extended hammer fist.
    What??
  • StompGrindStompGrind Posts: 21,196Free
    So what you're saying is.....

    Cain's manly right hand
    image

    JDS girl punches.
    image
  • Jason_H.Jason_H. Posts: 2,158Free
    edited October 2013
    Yes, that's what I'm saying except the chubby dude's punch lands cleaner.
    Post edited by Jason_H. on
    What??
  • classicboxerclassicboxer Posts: 11,820Free

    I think it's a product of his style to use range to box & keep distance to aid TDD.

    He uses a milling motion with his lead hand to set up the jab & or left hook off a pawing fencer like stiff jab. That pawing fencer jab is rangy and when the opponents rear hand defense redirects it inside he circles around with the long left hook to the outside over the top of their defense. The long lead left hook he throws is similar to a ridge hand but with a little less circular arc. It is rangier though and his is sort of a hybrid between a jab and long hook but his fist position is similar to shovel hook. That is pretty odd his fist position he lands with the inside of the hand like you said instead of the top knuckles on the hand. I think he does it for added range and for synergy off his jab because they look similar in how he initiates them at first when he's using it offensively and not to counter while back peddling.

    Another reason i think he does it that way is it tends to lift the head up and circle them directly into the path of that big step in overhand right he loves and if they duck straight down or to his right here comes the step in uppercut instead. Yet another reason is it tends to keep his elbow down more in position to get an underhook or fold it in to create a frame to collar tie preventing penetration on shoots.

    The big weakeness with that hook is he throws it very upright and if misses he has no shoulder protection against the cross over the top and he often back peddles leaving his head held high moving out into range on the end of a cross or a hook. Cain exploited that many times but if JDS comes forward and throws his right or left hook from close range he gets clinched or has to deal with a shoot on his legs.

    JDS is at his best when he can get people to stay outside and react defensively going back then trick thier defense to get them to step back or circle out
    to where they're on the end of his step-in pulverizer Rear Overhand/Uppercut/lunging cross shots.

    If they pressure him & keep him on his heels with straight jabs/crosses/clinching/shooting he doesn't have that short range forward pressure counter game AND TDD at the same time to deal with them. He has to sacrifice one or the other against fighters like that and it becomes a puncher's change game that he will lose by either getting out struck or out grappled but he can't defend both and once he gets tired so does his combined speed & power on his punches which makes his puncher's chance even lower percentage.

    Interesting, I never thought about it like that.
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  • StompGrindStompGrind Posts: 21,196Free
    Somethng else of note is he has pretty big stubby hands so he probably has very dense finger bones and it's more of a swing rather than a true hook with bones aligned behind it to create counter pressure. I'm surprised he doesn't jam his elbow though mine would break if i threw a hook like that with any force but i'm slightly double jointed in my elbow and my ulner sort of juts out more than most people sort of like on the right on this diagram.

    image

    Most people that break their hands it usually happens from over arcing on the turn over and landing with the pinky knuckle and the fragile bone behind that is not aligned with with other bones so the weight, velocity and impact tent to break when slammed into a wall, an elbow or someone's thick skull.

    It's sort of like an egg or match stick. If you counter pressure up and down linear it won't break but as soon as pressure is applied at an angle it snaps or the egg breaks.

    Same principle applies when your arm is locked out and all the bones are aligned the middle knuckle is aligned straight through to the shoulder the pinky is off center and that bone behind it can't take the impact.
  • skullboneskullbone Posts: 1,954Free

    I think it's a product of his style to use range to box & keep distance to aid TDD.

    He uses a milling motion with his lead hand to set up the jab & or left hook off a pawing fencer like stiff jab. That pawing fencer jab is rangy and when the opponents rear hand defense redirects it inside he circles around with the long left hook to the outside over the top of their defense. The long lead left hook he throws is similar to a ridge hand but with a little less circular arc. It is rangier though and his is sort of a hybrid between a jab and long hook but his fist position is similar to shovel hook. That is pretty odd his fist position he lands with the inside of the hand like you said instead of the top knuckles on the hand. I think he does it for added range and for synergy off his jab because they look similar in how he initiates them at first when he's using it offensively and not to counter while back peddling.

    Another reason i think he does it that way is it tends to lift the head up and circle them directly into the path of that big step in overhand right he loves and if they duck straight down or to his right here comes the step in uppercut instead. Yet another reason is it tends to keep his elbow down more in position to get an underhook or fold it in to create a frame to collar tie preventing penetration on shoots.

    The big weakeness with that hook is he throws it very upright and if misses he has no shoulder protection against the cross over the top and he often back peddles leaving his head held high moving out into range on the end of a cross or a hook. Cain exploited that many times but if JDS comes forward and throws his right or left hook from close range he gets clinched or has to deal with a shoot on his legs.

    JDS is at his best when he can get people to stay outside and react defensively going back then trick thier defense to get them to step back or circle out
    to where they're on the end of his step-in pulverizer Rear Overhand/Uppercut/lunging cross shots.

    If they pressure him & keep him on his heels with straight jabs/crosses/clinching/shooting he doesn't have that short range forward pressure counter game AND TDD at the same time to deal with them. He has to sacrifice one or the other against fighters like that and it becomes a puncher's change game that he will lose by either getting out struck or out grappled but he can't defend both and once he gets tired so does his combined speed & power on his punches which makes his puncher's chance even lower percentage.

    Yeah, it's clear he can't fight effectively on the inside. He also has a tendency to back himself up to the fence. I figure he thinks it helps him defend takedowns better, but it really just pins him in so Cain can press the action up in his grill. I was afraid this might happen after I observed Junior constantly leaning on the fence in the Hunt fight. He also stood up too straight. A lower base, avoiding the fence, and sharper short range punches on the inside would have helped Junior some. I doubt he could match the pace Cain sets though.
  • zaksamezaksame Posts: 4,340Free
    The answer is VERY obvious.He punches with the inside because he throws lopping punches,that is also why he hits the back of the head a lot or just behind the ear.
    As for inside fighting,he can fight well there,he showed us a few signs of using elbows,he is just being controlled too much by Cain who is a superior fighter.Normally a HW would gas trying to fight like Cain,so JDS could score a Ko or TKO eventually but Cain is inhuman his cardio is amazing for a HW.
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  • najmanajma Posts: 2,023Free
    zaksame said:

    Normally a HW would gas trying to fight like Cain,so JDS could score a Ko or TKO eventually but Cain is inhuman his cardio is amazing for a HW.

    Dude, cardio becomes relevant only from round 3 or so. But in both fights JDS got already manhandled in the first and second rounds, each time pretty much from the get go. The first clinch they were in and he already got battered.
    image
  • TahuneTahune Posts: 1,875Free

    Somethng else of note is he has pretty big stubby hands so he probably has very dense finger bones and it's more of a swing rather than a true hook with bones aligned behind it to create counter pressure. I'm surprised he doesn't jam his elbow though mine would break if i threw a hook like that with any force but i'm slightly double jointed in my elbow and my ulner sort of juts out more than most people sort of like on the right on this diagram.

    image

    Most people that break their hands it usually happens from over arcing on the turn over and landing with the pinky knuckle and the fragile bone behind that is not aligned with with other bones so the weight, velocity and impact tent to break when slammed into a wall, an elbow or someone's thick skull.

    It's sort of like an egg or match stick. If you counter pressure up and down linear it won't break but as soon as pressure is applied at an angle it snaps or the egg breaks.

    Same principle applies when your arm is locked out and all the bones are aligned the middle knuckle is aligned straight through to the shoulder the pinky is off center and that bone behind it can't take the impact.

    Who flagged this lol

    The man uses science ffs.

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  • the_enigmathe_enigma Posts: 19,049Premium
    lulz The_Flagger had to disagree with my post >:)
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