So, Overeem called out Brock Lesnar. Let's talk about that.

MegasoupMegasoup Maker of SoupsPosts: 2,386Free
Okay, Overeem beat the crap out of him in their last matchup. That's not really up for debate. But...

...but Lesnar had some sort of diverticurkyallurititnititusmagnaleritus or something like that. Apparently, it was a pretty serious matter. Now, I don't really like that big 'ole redneck with his flat top and his penis-shaped tattoo. I don't like his attitude and I don't usually get along with those types of people, so I'm not a fan.

There's something to be said about being extremely ill or injured. Now, a lot of fighters will take a loss and then say they were hurt. Remember though, Brock was having issues BEFORE the Overeem fight. As a matter of fact, he tried keeping it under wraps and had to pull out of a couple title fights with Shane Carwin, a fight he eventually won but showed a great deal of vulnerability.

The thing is, Brock never really seemed the same fighter after that. But enough about that silly redneck.

I hate using MMA math, but sometimes it's the best we got. Alistair Overeem and "pre-diverticurkyallurititnititusmagnaleritus" Brock Lesnar share a common opponent. Frank Mir. If you look at both of their performances against Mir, you sorta' get an idea of what a healthy and happy white-trash gorilla Brock really is and how that version of himself would probably have matched up with the 'Reem.

I think it's wonderful that Overeem was able to finish some of MMA greats like Gary Goodridge and Todd Duffee, but the fact remains that he recently got knocked out by Bigfoot, a talented fighter (but never a serious threat to the title) and Travis Brown (a talented fighter, but also someone who had never before been mentioned in a serious discussion about being in the title picture.)




So, where does that leave Overeem? Well, he's an excellent fighter. He's a beast and it's great that the UFC has him. I think there are two fights that make sense for both him and the other fighter that would be involved. They are:

-Brock Lesnar. Hey, Overeem called him out. It would also give everyone a good idea about whether or not Brock is fully recovered and positioned for a comeback. This is a matchup that makes sense.

-Junior Dos Santos. This is excellent for a couple reasons. First off, Junior is the undisputed "second best fighter" in the heavyweight division. That guy is not about to get any title shots anytime soon. He is in a unique position to determine whether or not an up and coming fighter can give Cain a challenge. I don't know if anyone else in the UFC can beat him, though...so we should use this talent of his sparingly or Cain will never have a chance to defend his title.

Discuss.
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  • MegasoupMegasoup Maker of SoupsPosts: 2,386Free
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  • MegasoupMegasoup Maker of SoupsPosts: 2,386Free
    Mods, please delete this thread.
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  • MegasoupMegasoup Maker of SoupsPosts: 2,386Free
    Alright.

    Since it's on here, let's talk about it. I think I put up a pretty worthy argument. What say you, members of the forum?
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  • Solid_SnakeSolid_Snake Posts: 11,789Moderator, Ultimate
    The problem with Brock is that he doesn't handle getting hit very well. He has an amazing chin, he was never rocked or KO'd by any of those big hitters(or maybe he was rocked, it's tough to tell since his reactions were all the same). However, he didn't have to be, because once he got hit, he went straight to defense mode and got beat up. If he learned to deal with the aspect of getting hit, he'd be a tough guy to beat.
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  • ijosefijosef Posts: 1,645Free

    The problem with Brock is that he doesn't handle getting hit very well. He has an amazing chin, he was never rocked or KO'd by any of those big hitters(or maybe he was rocked, it's tough to tell since his reactions were all the same). However, he didn't have to be, because once he got hit, he went straight to defense mode and got beat up. If he learned to deal with the aspect of getting hit, he'd be a tough guy to beat.

    Exactly. I always post the same thing when people try and say Brock had a glass jaw. It was actually quite the opposite - Brock had an iron chin but no ability to take advantage of it. Brock is was an amazing athlete but he just wasn't a fighter. His "fight or flight" response was permanently stuck on "flight." Shane Carwin drilled him with a clean uppercut and some good ground and pound, Velasquez hit him a billion times, and Mir landed a clean flying knee to his dome, yet he never went out. His game plan just flies out the window when he gets hit and it's run away/cover up/turtle up time.

    Ultimately, why would he come back when he's getting five million a year to show up to WWE events every other month? The guy is a part-time pro wrestler at best and doesn't have to go on the road with them (which is what really does the damage). Brock is insanely rich already and he certainly doesn't need the money or fame. It would only be for his ego at this point. I would love to see him back, but I just don't see it.
  • wrestlectb1108wrestlectb1108 Posts: 87Free
    Why call out a Guy ou Basially KO with a body kick?! Why would want to fight that fight again....aside from the obvious monetary gain there is NOTHIN in this fight for Overeem ...
  • MegasoupMegasoup Maker of SoupsPosts: 2,386Free

    Why call out a Guy ou Basially KO with a body kick?! Why would want to fight that fight again....aside from the obvious monetary gain there is NOTHIN in this fight for Overeem ...

    It's a lot more fun to win than to lose, and Overeem probably feels he can win.
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  • SteelerNation43SteelerNation43 Posts: 12,682Free
    lol, you guys are seriously underestimating how enticing that Lesnar PPV money is.
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  • PabloskyPablosky Posts: 677Free
    bad match up...

    what if Brock loses again? what's next? on the other hand, what's next for AO winning this? not a title fight, of course.
    thanks god im less stupid now!

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  • DoobsterDoobster Posts: 2,096Free
    my dad has diverticulitis.

    "It's either blue cheese with wings or go **** your mother." -- MadFlavor
  • MegasoupMegasoup Maker of SoupsPosts: 2,386Free
    Doobster said:

    my dad has diverticulitis.

    I bet Overeem could have kicked his **** while he was trying to recover.
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  • PabloskyPablosky Posts: 677Free
    Doobster said:

    my dad has diverticulitis.

    what exactly is?

    thanks god im less stupid now!

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  • rodrodMMA92rodrodMMA92 TexasPosts: 4,027Free
    Smart man. Ring rust Lesnar would be another big name win. Overeem could get a title shot after 2 wins with the sadness that is MMA HWs.



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  • UFCCagerattlerUFCCagerattler Posts: 16,204Free
    Brock Lesnar cannot take a punch or any kind of strike.

    He can get in there with Randy Couture and Frank Mir because neither one of these guys can hit. But put him in with Cain or Overeem or someone who can hit him and he's lost. He is not a real fighter.
  • DoobsterDoobster Posts: 2,096Free
    Pablosky said:

    Doobster said:

    my dad has diverticulitis.

    what exactly is?

    He's an ****.
    "It's either blue cheese with wings or go **** your mother." -- MadFlavor
  • waikruwaikru UFC PresidentPosts: 10,043Free
    Calling out a guy you already owned and retired is much safer than calling out JDS or Cain.
    On November 16th Hendricks became the real undisputed champion.

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  • carnages41carnages41 Posts: 36,400Free
    waikru said:

    Calling out a guy you already owned and retired is much safer than calling out JDS or Cain.

    So Hendricks should call out GSP again?
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  • GoToGuyGoToGuy Posts: 5,361Free

    waikru said:

    Calling out a guy you already owned and retired is much safer than calling out JDS or Cain.

    So Hendricks should call out GSP again?
    So GSP should call out BJ again?
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  • waikruwaikru UFC PresidentPosts: 10,043Free

    waikru said:

    Calling out a guy you already owned and retired is much safer than calling out JDS or Cain.

    So Hendricks should call out GSP again?
    That would definitely be a SAFE person to call out.
    On November 16th Hendricks became the real undisputed champion.

    "Believe in the beard"

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  • carnages41carnages41 Posts: 36,400Free
    GoToGuy said:

    waikru said:

    Calling out a guy you already owned and retired is much safer than calling out JDS or Cain.

    So Hendricks should call out GSP again?
    So GSP should call out BJ again?
    He didn't own BJ

    Bj smashed that can's nose and forced him to resort to steroids, Vaseline and lay n pray
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  • waikruwaikru UFC PresidentPosts: 10,043Free

    GoToGuy said:

    waikru said:

    Calling out a guy you already owned and retired is much safer than calling out JDS or Cain.

    So Hendricks should call out GSP again?
    So GSP should call out BJ again?
    He didn't own BJ

    Bj smashed that can's nose and forced him to resort to steroids, Vaseline and lay n pray
    Carnages41 for President!

    On November 16th Hendricks became the real undisputed champion.

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  • UFCCagerattlerUFCCagerattler Posts: 16,204Free
    BJ did win one round against GSP. The first round. The next 7 or 8 were all GSP.
  • bluesybluesy Posts: 2,843Free
    It's clear that Reem isn't even a contender without his TRT. A healthy Lesnar would plow a hole through a non-roided Alistair.

    Also, are we gonna pretend like Frank Mir didn't hit a double on him last night? He went down so easy. Brock just needs to get his ducks in order and he'd have this one in the bag easy.
  • FuriousmatFuriousmat Posts: 4,047Free
    Well I think this comparison with Mir just can't be done because there's been too much change since then.

    First Brock got sick.. And lost tons of his athleticism (which is what makes him a beast) between his 2nd Mir fight and his Overeem fight. As far as we know Brock was already sick when he fought Mir but it hadn't reached the levels it did after that. After Mir he had to undergo a major surgery and sit on a couch for a long time. And then if I'm not mistaken, he got sick again?? Well one thing's for sure is that he didn't fight Overeem at nearly 100% of his potential, not only physically, but also in terms of the training he was able to do to prepare for this fight.

    2nd, Mir has improved a lot since their fight and has gained size.... a lot.. He's gone from being an average sized HW to being among the big men.

    3rd, Overeem was majorly juiced up when he fought Lesnar... I'm guessing the same could be said about Lesnar when he fought Mir but hell, at least he wasn't juiced up the day of the fight... and we'll never know..

    Overeem has had to get off the juice now and it seems to have significantly impacted his body. He's also got knocked out twice since fighting Brock... which can affect his confidence, timing and chin.

    All in all, Neither of those 3 is the same as they were 2 or 3 years ago... not even close.. so too hard to judge..
  • ijosefijosef Posts: 1,645Free
    Pablosky said:

    Doobster said:

    my dad has diverticulitis.

    what exactly is?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverticulosis
    Diverticulosis is when your large intestine has little bulges in it (almost like little aneurysms) where the intestinal wall has failed and the tissue pushes out, creating a little "pocket". Diverticulitis is when these little pockets become infected. Many people who have diverticulosis are asymptomatic and don't even know they have it. On the other end of the spectrum, some people are completely disabled by it, suffering from chronic pain and dysfunction that requires surgery to correct (which creates new problems on its own).

    Brock didn't know he had it until he almost died from it. I remember them postponing the Carwin fight when they thought he had the flu... then strep throat... then finally mononucleosis. He went on a hunting trip and that's when one of his diverticula completely burst, spilling its infected contents into his abdominal cavity. Anyone who knows anything at all about medical issues knows that an intestinal perforation/rupture is a HUGE deal. A serious perforation of the large intestine will almost always be fatal unless treated, resulting in peritonitis and eventual sepsis and a painful death.

    I think that's what did Brock in. It had to be agonizingly painful and terrifying. They wanted to do major surgery at first but decided to try a more conservative approach. After closing the perforation, Brock was fed intravenously and given IV antibiotics for three weeks. He lost 40lbs during that time and looked terrible. He managed to recover, but had to completely change his diet and lifestyle (no more red meats, more of a holistic diet, etc). When he fought Carwin he didn't cut any weight. Instead of walking around at 285-290, he walked around at 260-265. You could tell he just wasn't the same.

    Without going into too many details, his disease recurred (his diverticula became infected again, resulting in diverticulitis) and he had to have surgery. Many people have a colostomy bag attached during such surgery, but Brock had a subtotal colectomy with anastomosis. Basically, they cut him open, grabbed his large intestine, chopped out the part that had all the diverticula, and stapled the two ends back together. The fact that he had this surgery in May and was fighting Overeem the following December is just astounding. Many people never fully recover from major abdominal surgery, which carries a lot of risk with it (adhesions, strictions, etc). They might be better than they were when they were sick, but never as well as they were before they got the disease in the first place.
  • FuriousmatFuriousmat Posts: 4,047Free
    edited February 3
    ^this guy knows what's up.
    I've had people in my family suffering from this exactly (but were taken care of before the intestine was actually pierced) and had to have parts of their intestine removed. People in good shape usually recover pretty well from this if they're in good health but after that you need to be very strict on what you eat if you don't wanna end up carrying a little **** bag around for the rest of your life.

    And I've said it before but not only did Brock lose a lot of his behemotish size and athleticism to that problem, he also lost a lot of precious time.

    I mean let's face it. This guy was at a very early stage of developpement as a MMA fighter. And his body alone allowed him to beat top veterans. We need to consider that at such an early point on the learning curve, Lesnar could've been showing ridiculous improvement from one fight to the other.

    Facing a guy that's this new in the sport is its own problem. Can't find much tape on him, and the flaw you see in his previous fight might very well be gone in his next, as opposed to a guy who's been showing the same opening for the last 7 fights...

    With the monetary resources he had, no need for a job, hire top coaches for him alone and full time dedication, the guy could've been a beast by now. Unfortunately, this disease, recovering from it and just getting back in shape most likely has taken away much of the time he's had in between fights. That definitely prevented him from evolving as he should've.

    So instead of being an increasingly skillful brute, Brock was most likely a lesser fighter than he was the fight before, everytime he stepped in the cage.

    Post edited by Furiousmat on
  • skillandpowerskillandpower Posts: 846Free
    OP, answer me this:

    Why Reem didnt call JDS ?!

    The answer for this question is pretty much the answer for why he called Brock lol
  • MegasoupMegasoup Maker of SoupsPosts: 2,386Free
    Yeah, I don't think Overeem wants to fight Dos Santos.
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