Time for a standing 8 count?

UFCCagerattlerUFCCagerattler Posts: 16,196Free
The latest early stoppage from Herb Dean has the MMA world in an uproar. It might be time to think about using the standing 8 count. What people don't understand about the 8 count is that is helps the ref to make a better decision. Half the time these refs are so excited and the action is so fast that they really don;t make the right call at all. If he could stand a guy up and give him an 8 count and check him out thoroughly it would be a lot easier to make the right choice.
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  • GoToGuyGoToGuy Posts: 5,361Free
    As bad of a call as that was, Urijah could have also did something other than lay there and get hit 10+ times and not move. Urijah and Herb are both at fault.
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  • _TUF1__TUF1_ Posts: 8,333Free
    negative. a standing 8 count would have robbed us from such classics as Luis Cane trying to high jump out of the octagon
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  • FuriousmatFuriousmat Posts: 4,047Free
    standing 8 count is not applicable in the context of ground fighting being an available option. Guys who are good of their back can often use the fact that their eager opponent jumps on the ground to finish them to tangle with them and recover. That is part of the game.

    + as it's been mentioned Faber is also to blame in what happened.

    Faber knew that he was in trouble already in the fight and that the ref would be looking closely. Most likely he didn't remember it at this very moment but he had just been knocked out hard and completely face planted seconds before.. And then he turtled.... I mean.. now we know he was ok because we saw it after he got stood up but at the moment it happened it was a very reasonable thing to stop the fight.

    Get knocked down multiple times in a matter of minutes, then face plant, then turtle and eat multiple shots without moving.. Granted it was a judgement call but it's not nearly as much of a **** stoppage as people make it sound.
  • Cole1186Cole1186 Posts: 3,766Free

    The latest early stoppage from Herb Dean has the MMA world in an uproar. It might be time to think about using the standing 8 count. What people don't understand about the 8 count is that is helps the ref to make a better decision. Half the time these refs are so excited and the action is so fast that they really don;t make the right call at all. If he could stand a guy up and give him an 8 count and check him out thoroughly it would be a lot easier to make the right choice.

    Eat a d**k.
    image
  • UFCCagerattlerUFCCagerattler Posts: 16,196Free
    Cole1186 said:

    The latest early stoppage from Herb Dean has the MMA world in an uproar. It might be time to think about using the standing 8 count. What people don't understand about the 8 count is that is helps the ref to make a better decision. Half the time these refs are so excited and the action is so fast that they really don;t make the right call at all. If he could stand a guy up and give him an 8 count and check him out thoroughly it would be a lot easier to make the right choice.

    Eat a d**k.
    Has that worked for you?
  • GoToGuyGoToGuy Posts: 5,361Free

    Cole1186 said:

    The latest early stoppage from Herb Dean has the MMA world in an uproar. It might be time to think about using the standing 8 count. What people don't understand about the 8 count is that is helps the ref to make a better decision. Half the time these refs are so excited and the action is so fast that they really don;t make the right call at all. If he could stand a guy up and give him an 8 count and check him out thoroughly it would be a lot easier to make the right choice.

    Eat a d**k.
    Has that worked for you?
    LOL!
    image

  • Mcmax3000Mcmax3000 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 2,527Moderator, Elite
    edited February 2
    In the context of MMA, a standing eight count makes absolutely no sense.

    For last night's fight, how would that have even worked? Would they have made Barao get off of his back, and then start the count?

    If that's the case, and say Faber answers the count, how is that fair to Barao? You've now taken away a dominant position from him, and given Faber time to recover after being rocked.

    If a fighter is hurt enough that the ref would be starting a count, end the fight. They've clearly taken enough punishment at that point.

    I agree with last night's main event being a bad stoppage, but this is a FAR worse solution.
    Post edited by Mcmax3000 on
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  • UFCCagerattlerUFCCagerattler Posts: 16,196Free
    Mcmax3000 said:

    In the context of MMA, a standing eight count makes absolutely no sense.

    For last night's fight, how would that have even worked? Would they have made Barao get off of his back, and then start the count?

    If that's the case, and say Faber answers the count, how is that fair to Barao? You've now taken away a dominant position from him, and given Faber time to recover after being rocked.

    If a fighter is hurt enough that the ref would be starting a count, end the fight. They've clearly taken enough punishment at that point.

    I agree with last night's main event being a bad stoppage, but this is a FAR worse solution.

    It would work exactly the same way that it works for a cut.

    The ref breaks them and stands up the guy with the cut and shows him to the doctor. If the doctor says he's ok the ref puts them back in the same position they were in and away they go.

    In the case of the standing 8 count the ref would not take the guy to the doctor but just observe him himself and make a better decision.

    So the logistics if the thing are there already.
  • Yesterdays_HeroYesterdays_Hero Posts: 23,652Free
    GoToGuy said:

    As bad of a call as that was, Urijah could have also did something other than lay there and get hit 10+ times and not move. Urijah and Herb are both at fault.

    You mean like block the strikes? Indicate to Herb that he is indeed okay with the thumbs up? Hire a sky writer to write "I'm okay, Herb" above the arena?
  • Mcmax3000Mcmax3000 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 2,527Moderator, Elite
    edited February 3



    It would work exactly the same way that it works for a cut.

    The ref breaks them and stands up the guy with the cut and shows him to the doctor. If the doctor says he's ok the ref puts them back in the same position they were in and away they go.

    In the case of the standing 8 count the ref would not take the guy to the doctor but just observe him himself and make a better decision.

    So the logistics if the thing are there already.

    That's still not fair to the guy that is in control in that situation, because you're giving his opponent time to recover, and completely killing his momentum in the fight.

    Plus, what if the guy is planning on punching his opponent to try to open up a submission, and the ref steps in right when he's about to go for the submission? You've just cost the guy a potential win.

    Not to mention, from a spectator perspective, potentially constant breaks in the action would be super annoying.

    I can't think of a single positive to implementing this. Not one. Terrible idea.
    Post edited by Mcmax3000 on
    Xbox Live Gamertag (XB1/360), Playstation Network ID (PS4/PS3), Nintendo Network ID (Wii U), and Steam ID: Mcmax3000, Twitter: Mcmax3000

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  • StompGrindStompGrind Posts: 21,324Free
    Standing 8 count bairly makes sense in boxing much less MMA.
  • classicboxerclassicboxer Posts: 11,848Free

    Mcmax3000 said:

    In the context of MMA, a standing eight count makes absolutely no sense.

    For last night's fight, how would that have even worked? Would they have made Barao get off of his back, and then start the count?

    If that's the case, and say Faber answers the count, how is that fair to Barao? You've now taken away a dominant position from him, and given Faber time to recover after being rocked.

    If a fighter is hurt enough that the ref would be starting a count, end the fight. They've clearly taken enough punishment at that point.

    I agree with last night's main event being a bad stoppage, but this is a FAR worse solution.

    It would work exactly the same way that it works for a cut.

    The ref breaks them and stands up the guy with the cut and shows him to the doctor. If the doctor says he's ok the ref puts them back in the same position they were in and away they go.

    In the case of the standing 8 count the ref would not take the guy to the doctor but just observe him himself and make a better decision.

    So the logistics if the thing are there already.
    That would give the fighter too much recovery time. I don't even like it in boxing.
    Oakland, CA: Raiders, A's, Warriors
  • Herb was worried about fabers hand getting hit too many times. Early stoppages are becoming a lot more common.
    "I'm not going to accept the fact that this was a loss. I've lost fights before, where, you know, like, I'm not going to accept that either. Herpa derpy derp..." -Nick Diaz
  • classicboxerclassicboxer Posts: 11,848Free

    That's the reason everyone in boxing is brain dead

    The standing 8 count was originally an amateur boxing rule that was brought into the pros as a safety measure. You're supposed to consider a fighter getting staggered the same way as a knockdown, but it doesn't always work that way. It's not used in all fights, different states have different rules.
    Oakland, CA: Raiders, A's, Warriors
  • UFCCagerattlerUFCCagerattler Posts: 16,196Free
    The standing 8 count is there for the ref to decide if the fight should go on.

    If you don;t like it then you have what we have now, which is bad stops.
  • MegasoupMegasoup Maker of SoupsPosts: 2,386Free
    I don't even like standing 8 counts in boxing, for a number of reasons. As others said, it wouldn't be applicable in MMA because of the ground option.
    Member of the People's Freedom Movement


  • wedo619wedo619 Posts: 1,294Free
    go watch boxing. or learn the rules of mma and what properly defending yourself is
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  • MegasoupMegasoup Maker of SoupsPosts: 2,386Free
    Here's a real thing: a long, long time ago in my early days as an amateur boxer, I was matched up with a much, much better fighter with an extremely impressive resume. He was a 6-time golden glover and went to Nationals like 4 or 5 times. His name is Vincent Hadley Jr. He's a bad mofo. This was a heavyweight contest.

    Anyway, I guess it was a good night for me and a bad night for him. It happens. So, I am clobbering this guy, which is super-surprising for anyone familiar with the skill differential between the two of us. It was one of the most one-sided affairs in amateur boxing, short of knocking a guy unconscious. It was great to watch too, as the referee didn't try to break us apart.

    In that last round, the referee decided that he couldn't let this highly decorated boxer get beaten by a chump like me. Vincent barely connected with a single punch, and the referee rushes in to give me a standing 8. I thought nothing of it, as I was pretty wore out and I was way ahead in this fight. I used it as a breather. The ref starts the fight again and we close the distance and nothing of any relevance occurred and the ref gave me another standing 8 and then stopped the fight. Ridiculous.

    I've since seen that a million times in boxing. I've seen referees break apart fighters when the champ is in a corner and the challenger is unloading on them, with no clinch involved at all. I've seen standing 8 counts that didn't add up. I've seen so much intervention from refs that I am positive that there's usually a predetermined winner. If the lopsided matchup doesn't go as planned, the ref steps in to work his magic. If all else fails, there's always the judges.

    Right now, we have some (not always) questionable judging. But at least the matchups are fairly even and we can thankful that the referees barely intervene. Let's not give them even more power.

    Back to my example; I'm still upset by that fixed loss. I should have won that fight on that night. We never had a rematch, but I probably would have lost it, anyway. But that would have been a real feather in my cap if I would have had a win over that guy.
    Member of the People's Freedom Movement


  • UFCCagerattlerUFCCagerattler Posts: 16,196Free
    They already have the power to stop a fight that's o the ground, have a fighter looked at by a doctor, and put them back in position again and restart the fight.

    There is no problem there at all.n
  • MegasoupMegasoup Maker of SoupsPosts: 2,386Free

    They already have the power to stop a fight that's o the ground, have a fighter looked at by a doctor, and put them back in position again and restart the fight.

    There is no problem there at all.n

    I'd hate to give the refs even more power and have even more interruptions. It would terrible for the sport.

    I like the theory; I like that someone is thinking outside the box about preventing early stoppages. I'd like to see this addressed, as well as late stoppages. I don't think standing 8 counts is the way to go, though.
    Member of the People's Freedom Movement


  • wesleywells1wesleywells1 TexasPosts: 7,331Free
    No thanks. It would slow the action significantly if the ref had to stand there and count to eight every time a fighter got knocked down. There would be far fewer KOs since there would be no follow up punches to the initial blow that dropped the fighter. Bad idea. Herb made a bad call. It happens.
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  • HellequinHellequin In my car with the garage door closedPosts: 4,185Free
    No that wouldn't work in MMA. It barely works in boxing.
  • MIRKO_CRO_COPMIRKO_CRO_COP Posts: 9,345Free
    wtf that wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.

    how would you submit somebody after rocking him? or take him down? or gnp him?

    that would take away half of the mma game
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  • jamamawjamamaw Posts: 2,406Free
    Even without taking away from the sport, I think it would be more dangerous.
    Anderson silva

    Nick diaz

    Gegard Mousasi

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    Rampage jackson

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  • the_vageniusthe_vagenius Posts: 219Free
    the ufc cant control the rules/judgements...all the ufc(dana white) can do is schedule a instant rematch 2months later, kinda like what uncle dana did to rousey after she beat tate... i vote leave the rules the way they are but instead have instant rematches asap when stoppage/decision is controversial or in question. its probably the best they can do without replacing refs with machines
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