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#1 OfWolfandMan

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:11 AM

Might it be worth considering not allowing for more than a certain amount weight difference between weigh ins & fight night so as to limit how extreme fighters can go with cutting?

 

 



#2 FINISHxHIM

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:15 AM

Might it be worth considering not allowing for more than a certain amount weight difference between weigh ins & fight night so as to limit how extreme fighters can go with cutting?

Weigh ins should take place on fight day... All WCC would immediately move up a division, blee dat.


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#3 HiTeMnSuBmiTem

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:17 AM

Weigh ins should take place on fight day...

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#4 fonzob1

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:27 AM

If you don't make weight, you should still have a contractual obligation to fight someone in the weight class you weighed into.  The UFC should have alternate fighters in waiting for that (just like they had alternate fighters for the original tournaments).



#5 PakaL

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:45 AM

Might it be worth considering not allowing for more than a certain amount weight difference between weigh ins & fight night so as to limit how extreme fighters can go with cutting?

   Weigh ins the night of the fight before you step into the octagon.


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#6 KOOKORK

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 11:21 AM

   Weigh ins the night of the fight before you step into the octagon.

Then most of the fighters will gas by the end of 1st round.


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#7 cashfl0w

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 11:41 AM

Nobody wants to watch emaciated athletes stumble around and potentially DIE from being too dehydrated in the octagon. They would indeed be tired by the end of the first round.

 

Also, how do you plan to police how much people weigh in between fights? The weight police going to go around with their scales making sure you're in fighting shape 24/7?


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#8 12er

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 12:24 PM

What kookork and cash said, if they did same day weigh in, guys would still cut weight and then we'd end up with deaths in the octagon and set the sport back 10 years.

 

Maybe the OP's suggestion of two weigh ins to limit the weight cut could work.


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#9 StompGrind

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:05 PM

Might it be worth considering not allowing for more than a certain amount weight difference between weigh ins & fight night so as to limit how extreme fighters can go with cutting?

I think something like that could be a good solution like maybe some sort of pre-weight limit before cutting IDK but then some guys will still try to game that system as well. lol they'll cut weight just to cut weight. 

 

Even better would be that the UFC has a new policy that is enforced. If you miss weight once you get a pass but you're excuse better be legit. Second time you move up a class or get cut. Third time you're cut. 

 

Same day weight ins has a number of problems and imo very dangerous and not practical. 



#10 OfWolfandMan

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:13 PM

 

 

Also, how do you plan to police how much people weigh in between fights? The weight police going to go around with their scales making sure you're in fighting shape 24/7?

 

 

As 12er already alluded to, have 2 weigh ins, one to "make weight" for the division, the second to cap what you can weigh prior to the fight to curb extreme cutting. Anyone over "x" amount at their 2nd weigh in could be penalized in similar fashion to the first weigh in. There are a variety of ways they could go about this, and those within the industry that have the actual knowledge and understanding could weigh in with far more insight than any of us.

 

Either way, I think it would behoove the UFC to do something about this and help avoid all manner of problems.



#11 cashfl0w

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:15 PM

As 12er already alluded to, have 2 weigh ins, one to "make weight" for the division, the second to cap what you can weigh prior to the fight to curb extreme cutting. Anyone over "x" amount at their 2nd weigh in could be penalized in similar fashion to the first weigh in. There are a variety of ways they could go about this, and those within the industry that have the actual knowledge and understanding could weigh in with far more insight than any of us.

 

Either way, I think it would behoove the UFC to do something about this and help avoid all manner of problems.

This would never happen. You would have to strip every champion besides Velasquez. lol


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#12 OfWolfandMan

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:16 PM

I think something like that could be a good solution like maybe some sort of pre-weight limit before cutting IDK but then some guys will still try to game that system as well. lol they'll cut weight just to cut weight. 

 

Even better would be that the UFC has a new policy that is enforced. If you miss weight once you get a pass but you're excuse better be legit. Second time you move up a class or get cut. Third time you're cut. 

 

Same day weight ins has a number of problems and imo very dangerous and not practical. 

 

 

True, any system will be gamed. The idea is to narrow the window and manner in which they can do so.

 

I really dont think same day weigh ins would be a bad idea. Maybe at first some will try and cut till the last minute and then rehydrate, but I think they will find thats a rather stupid thing to do and the cost/gain ratio would prove it foolish.



#13 StompGrind

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:49 PM

True, any system will be gamed. The idea is to narrow the window and manner in which they can do so.

 

I really dont think same day weigh ins would be a bad idea. Maybe at first some will try and cut till the last minute and then rehydrate, but I think they will find thats a rather stupid thing to do and the cost/gain ratio would prove it foolish.

The thing about same day weigh-ins is many fighters will just diet, stop lifting during camp & still try to cut and same day isn't enough time to rehydrate. The day before is barely enough time. Performance is going to suffer and getting hit in the head after not rehydrating proper is a bad bad idea. 

 

Many of them will still miss weight anyway and missing weight will be a more common thing so they'll either have to cancel fights if way over the limit ( which is all sorts of problems for the promotion ) or someone will have an unfair advantage i.e. one of them just misses weight by a few pounds so the commission still allows them to fight meanwhile the other guy is drained but made the weight. Not to mention when this happens for title fights. Even the pay penalty awarded to the fighter that made weight is not enough to deter people. I guess UFC could penalize them higher but it's quite extreme. 

 

Personally i'm cool with the current system in place the UFC just needs to implement a clear policy that if you miss weight you'll only get that one warning then you'll have to move up a class or be cut. 


Edited by StompGrind, 30 August 2014 - 01:51 PM.

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#14 OfWolfandMan

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:54 PM

The thing about same day weigh-ins is many fighters will just diet, stop lifting during camp & still try to cut and same day isn't enough time to rehydrate. The day before is barely enough time. Performance is going to suffer and getting hit in the head after not rehydrating proper is a bad bad idea. 

 

Many of them will still miss weight anyway and missing weight will be a more common thing so they'll either have to cancel fights if way over the limit ( which is all sorts of problems for the promotion ) or someone will have an unfair advantage i.e. one of them just misses weight by a few pounds so the commission still allows them to fight meanwhile the other guy is drained but made the weight. Not to mention when this happens for title fights. Even the pay penalty awarded to the fighter that made weight is not enough to deter people. I guess UFC could penalize them higher but it's quite extreme. 

 

Personally i'm cool with the current system in place the UFC just needs to implement a clear policy that if you miss weight you'll only get that one warning then you'll have to move up a class or be cut. 

 

Rennan is a wake up call that something tragic is around the corner if the UFC doesnt do something. I hate regulation  - I have no desire to see some bureaucrat step in and dictate what a private entity should do - but that WILL happen, and it wont be good, if weight cutting continues to be tolerated to an extreme.



#15 StompGrind

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:13 PM

Rennan is a wake up call that something tragic is around the corner if the UFC doesnt do something. I hate regulation  - I have no desire to see some bureaucrat step in and dictate what a private entity should do - but that WILL happen, and it wont be good, if weight cutting continues to be tolerated to an extreme.

They just need to implement a strict policy of making guys move up if they miss. 

 

Same day weight in is absolutely asking for something tragic to happen. 



#16 Magerget

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:25 PM

Weigh ins should take place on fight day... All WCC would immediately move up a division, blee dat.

 

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#17 najma

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 05:14 PM

Then most of the fighters will gas by the end of 1st round.

That's the stupidest statement ever.
Nobody wants to gas by the end of rd 1. Now go figure then implications yourself...


Edited by najma, 30 August 2014 - 05:25 PM.


#18 Yesterdays_Hero

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 05:36 PM

Cut anyone that misses weight



#19 fonzob1

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:01 PM

Cut anyone that misses weight

 

You can't cut marquee fighters.  Make them contractually obligated to fight at the weight they do make.



#20 Yesterdays_Hero

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:06 PM

You can't cut marquee fighters.  Make them contractually obligated to fight at the weight they do make.

 

Cut them instantly, fighters will start fighting at more natural weights



#21 OfWolfandMan

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:08 PM

Cutting them for not making weight will just send them to other promotions. They hit them where it hurts - their purses



#22 Yesterdays_Hero

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:11 PM

Cutting them for not making weight will just send them to other promotions. They hit them where it hurts - their purses

 

You can't take money away from people who make next to nothing



#23 Spartacus__

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:11 PM

Idea about cutting: cut Larkin



#24 fonzob1

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:15 PM

Cut them instantly, fighters will start fighting at more natural weights

 

So, if Jon Jones or Jose Aldo somehow miss weight once, cut them?  No.  Make them weight up and fight an alternate.



#25 OfWolfandMan

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:15 PM

You can't take money away from people who make next to nothing

 

 

You really arent catching on. its not about how much your taking - its the fact that its all they have, whether its 10k or 100k. Heck, the less they make the more they need it.



#26 fonzob1

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:16 PM

Cutting them for not making weight will just send them to other promotions. They hit them where it hurts - their purses

 

That does little good though for the organization if one fighter not making weight ruins the event.  Make them weight up and still fight...



#27 OfWolfandMan

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:20 PM

That does little good though for the organization if one fighter not making weight ruins the event.  Make them weight up and still fight...

 

 

huh??

 

That...doesnt...make sense...



#28 Yesterdays_Hero

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:23 PM

You really arent catching on. its not about how much your taking - its the fact that its all they have, whether its 10k or 100k. Heck, the less they make the more they need it.

 

You can't take money away from someone making no money, they NEED it. "You'll know for next time" doesn't work when they have no money for there to be a next time. If the lower level guys don't get paid their pennies they can't fight for a career. That's why you see higher paid guys get fined and lower level guys get cut for incidents more often. Because they need to be able to go elsewhere and fight.


Edited by Yesterdays_Hero, 30 August 2014 - 06:23 PM.


#29 PakaL

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:23 PM

Then most of the fighters will gas by the end of 1st round.

 

   If they're weight cutting cans.

Nobody wants to watch emaciated athletes stumble around and potentially DIE from being too dehydrated in the octagon. They would indeed be tired by the end of the first round.

 

Also, how do you plan to police how much people weigh in between fights? The weight police going to go around with their scales making sure you're in fighting shape 24/7?

 Actually fighters would have to actually be on weight without cutting.  Thus fighters who fight at 145 will truly be 145ers not 165 or 175 pound dudes trying to make up for lack of skills bro... Any who the GUS DC JJ triangle was the last straw concerning the peak of  UdanaFC / zuffa. Not even making the UFC honorable VIA ending the weight cutting can era can fix. Killing steroids was the tip of the mountain top for MMA in general.


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#30 fonzob1

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:30 PM

huh??

 

That...doesnt...make sense...

 

It makes sense.  If a fighter does not make weight, and therefore cannot fight for a title, it can ruin the event (especially with a watered down card that has only one really interesting fight).  Financial penalties already exist for fighters not making weight.  Apparently, that is not enough on its own.


Edited by fonzob1, 30 August 2014 - 06:40 PM.


#31 OfWolfandMan

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:30 PM

You can't take money away from someone making no money, they NEED it. "You'll know for next time" doesn't work when they have no money for there to be a next time. If the lower level guys don't get paid their pennies they can't fight for a career. That's why you see higher paid guys get fined and lower level guys get cut for incidents more often. Because they need to be able to go elsewhere and fight.

 

 

Wrong all day long. Take that money and make it hurt...consequences have to have pain or they become a joke. If they fear losing money that badly they WILL make weight.



#32 KOOKORK

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 07:04 PM

That's the stupidest statement ever.
Nobody wants to gas by the end of rd 1. Now go figure then implications yourself...

With proper meaningful sentences please . 

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#33 classicboxer

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 07:36 PM

How can anyone expect the UFC to punish weight cutters when they won't punish steroids cheaters?


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#34 -richard

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 07:37 PM

If you fail to make weight you should be cut


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#35 OfWolfandMan

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 07:50 PM

How can anyone expect the UFC to punish weight cutters when they won't punish steroids cheaters?

 

 

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#36 fonzob1

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 08:09 PM

If you fail to make weight you should be cut

 

Would that rule be across the board?  You want marquee fighters to get signed by Bellator instead?



#37 -richard

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 08:10 PM

Would that rule be across the board?  You want marquee fighters to get signed by Bellator instead?

Yes, in all combat sports and every promotion no excuses


Edited by -richard, 30 August 2014 - 08:10 PM.



#38 fonzob1

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 08:12 PM

Yes, in all combat sports and every promotion no excuses

 

That would be chaos.  lol  They should just be forced to weight up...



#39 -richard

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 08:13 PM

That would be chaos.  lol  They should just be forced to weight up...

If you want to fight in a division and fail to make weight then you deserve to be cut.  it would stop the excessive weight cutting and improve the sport




#40 StompGrind

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 09:19 PM

How can anyone expect the UFC to punish weight cutters when they won't punish steroids cheaters?

UFC punishes steroid cheats they just can't be a high profile fight which=$$$.

 

They cut Drysdale right away. Drysdale who? That's right nobody outside the the BJJ community even knows who he is. 



#41 Jbrahams

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 11:21 PM

Weigh ins should take place on fight day... All WCC would immediately move up a division, blee dat.

I like this idea, I had to lose 7kg (15 lbs) in 2 weeks for a BJJ comp and although it was hard I was able to cut it and cut enough to have breakfast in the morning and compete feeling good, obviously it's not as intense as MMA but I think if weigh ins were on fight day fighters would cut weight much more naturally and as you said plenty would move up. Tibau would be fighting LHW.


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#42 Bubba_Sparks

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 04:05 AM

Miss weight and you are banned from that weight class for ever. That will actually do fighters a favour long term e.g Rumble

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#43 fonzob1

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 04:12 AM

Miss weight and you are banned from that weight class for ever. That will actually do fighters a favour long term e.g Rumble

 

Forever is a long time.  I say just through their current contract or a year if they do not have a multi-fight contract.


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#44 Bubba_Sparks

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 04:15 AM

Not banned from fighting forever. Just from that weight class. White's pretty much done it with Cejudo. If someone's missed weight, why take the risk they'll do it again.

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#45 fonzob1

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 04:20 AM

Not banned from fighting forever. Just from that weight class. White's pretty much done it with Cejudo. If someone's missed weight, why take the risk they'll do it again.

 

Yeah, I still say forever is too long because people can undergo lots of different body mass changes within a lifetime.  I would just make them contractually obligated to fight in the weight class they tend to make, so the "ban" lasts through the time that they are bound to fight for that promotion.  They can always move on to another promotion (e.g., Bellator) if they are resolute about fighting in a lower weight class.


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#46 Bubba_Sparks

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 04:37 AM

People only tend to go up in weight though. But I like the idea of contracting them to a weight class. There have to be consequences mores severe than just giving up a bit of your purse.

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#47 -richard

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 08:02 AM

If you cannot do you job and fail to hit a deadline, what happens?  you get repercussions.  same should apply to fighters.  they have one job during training camp, make weight.  cant fulfill that obligation, you should be sacked


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#48 OfWolfandMan

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 09:55 AM

If you cannot do you job and fail to hit a deadline, what happens?  you get repercussions.  same should apply to fighters.  they have one job during training camp, make weight.  cant fulfill that obligation, you should be sacked

 

 

But in fairness I dont think the argument is whether there should be consequences, but rather, what those consequences should be and where the line should be drawn.



#49 zaksame

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 01:07 PM

Then most of the fighters will gas by the end of 1st round.

 

Then that means they suck and don't deserve to be there.

We want to see who the REAL champs are at MMA not the people who play some game of PEDS and weight cutting.


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#50 Wedos_LoveChild

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 01:25 PM

Then that means they suck and don't deserve to be there.

We want to see who the REAL champs are at MMA not the people who play some game of PEDS and weight cutting.

 

 

especially the ones who cut weight exclusively from their legs.


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