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1 hour ago, Bwana said:

What I've read of this UN mandate so far is that it's merely a non binding agreement and would not be ratified into law and signatories to the act would be free to ignore it if they so chose, at any time.

 

But this is from the same people who for 45 years lied when challenged, that the E.U, the European Union, would ever become a reality. Never they said. It's merely a trading partnership they said.

 

 

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1 hour ago, TwennyFo said:

What I've read of this UN mandate so far is that it's merely a non binding agreement and would not be ratified into law and signatories to the act would be free to ignore it if they so chose, at any time.

 

But this is from the same people who for 45 years lied when challenged, that the E.U, the European Union, would ever become a reality. Never they said. It's merely a trading partnership they said.

 

 

I read the same thing and look forward to the day Scheer goes and scratches Canada off it (even if its days away from Trudope signing it)

Not like signing it matters. Idiot wants open borders anyway.

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I remember Heather Nauert when she started w/ FOX's Neal Cavuto 10 yrs ago,

(after Rebecca Go-Go Gomez) ... good choice for UN Amb.  -

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Comey testifying behind closed doors today. His testimony consists of "I can't remember' and "on the advice of councel I refuse to answer that question".

Why do they even bother?

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54 minutes ago, TwennyFo said:

Comey testifying behind closed doors today. His testimony consists of "I can't remember' and "on the advice of councel I refuse to answer that question".

Why do they even bother?

So the politicians can act concerned and grandstand some more, then state whatever they want after the meeting because Comey won't discuss the details.

Same ole' same ole'.

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1 hour ago, TwennyFo said:

Comey testifying behind closed doors today. His testimony consists of "I can't remember' and "on the advice of councel I refuse to answer that question".

Why do they even bother?

He won't be able to stonewall behind closed doors. The topics that he avoided previously because they were classified are not classified to the House Judiciary Committee. He can answer questions or be held in contempt of Congress. 

5 minutes ago, Bwana said:

So the politicians can act concerned and grandstand some more, then state whatever they want after the meeting because Comey won't discuss the details.

Same ole' same ole'.

No grandstanding at closed door sessions. The Dems won't even bother to show up.

It's very likely ten or fifteen people asking question after question. Gowdy will be taking repeated turns when he gets a tidbit that peaks his interest.

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1 hour ago, cashfl0w said:

He won't be able to stonewall behind closed doors. The topics that he avoided previously because they were classified are not classified to the House Judiciary Committee. He can answer questions or be held in contempt of Congress. 

No grandstanding at closed door sessions. The Dems won't even bother to show up.

It's very likely ten or fifteen people asking question after question. Gowdy will be taking repeated turns when he gets a tidbit that peaks his interest.

Darrel Issa came out of the hearing and told Harris Faulkner that this is what his testimony consists of so far. He stated that it was possible another subpoena would be issued to Comey to testify but why bother. You've got nothing now, you'll get nothing then.

Watched a video on youtube last night of Trey Gowdy giving his reasons for leaving politics. The fact that nothing ever comes out of these sessions is his exact reason for  returning to the bar. He feels his time would be better spent in the courtroom where he can at least accomplish something real and tangible, something with a final outcome.

Edited by TwennyFo

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Comey isn't obligated to discuss an open investigation, he'll claim classified information and will face no repercussions,,,,attorneys will state legal prudence and walk away.

It's a waste of time, other than GOP grandstanding for tv interviews yet to come....RINO's

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You're misusing the word grandstanding. You cannot grandstand in an interview.

Comey isn't part of any ongoing investigations. He can't use that as a reason to not answer questions, and again, it's a closed door session. He can't claim anything is classified, and above their pay grade.

I seem to be the lone survivor thinking this is meaningful. But I do. We may not get much from him right this second, but he'll be compelled to testify soon enough.

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I disagree, an ongoing investigation by the FBI isn't going to be openly discussed...key word: openly: because any info he relinquishes will be run straight to the WH by Nunes. If the FBI phoned me and said "don't discuss the case mofo !"...I wouldn't discuss the case details. Comey has been separated from the investigation for 18 months, and removed from his prior position.

So yes, political grandstanding, pretending to do their jobs when they haven't done chiit for this country in months.

Breaking: Cohen has been recommended for substantial incarceration.

Edited by Bwana

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I think Bwana might have a point about the repubs. If not grandstanding they're at least playing to the camera's. Once the Dems take back the house, a few weeks from now, all these investigations cease and the repubs know that which begs the question, if they really wanted answers, as to why they left it till the eleventh hour.

 

Maybe there'll be some clarity when the transcripts are released but I somehow doubt it. The merry go round will just continue spinning, same'o same'o.

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Transcripts are to be released to the public next week, according to reports they interview was a joke.

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14 minutes ago, TwennyFo said:

I think Bwana might have a point about the repubs. If not grandstanding they're at least playing to the camera's. Once the Dems take back the house, a few weeks from now, all these investigations cease and the repubs know that which begs the question, if they really wanted answers, as to why they left it till the eleventh hour.

 

Maybe there'll be some clarity when the transcripts are released but I somehow doubt it. The merry go round will just continue spinning, same'o same'o.

The definition of grandstanding is wasting time by yacking. The Republicans wouldn't have anything to gain from doing that at a closed door session. lol

Lastly, you guys can believe me or not, but James Comey cannot use the ongoing investigation excuse. Period. The FBI isn't investigating anything. Mueller is, but the FBI is not involved and he would have no info. That's facts, like it or not.

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1 minute ago, cashfl0w said:

Lastly, you guys can believe me or not, but James Comey cannot use the ongoing investigation excuse. Period. 

M8, I agree 100%. Which is why it's so infuriating that he can use that defence and apparently all the repubs do is scratch their heads.

I fully expect them to next to start ****ing about how its not fair.

 

The whole chit show is a waste of time m8, and a huge waste of tax payer dollars.

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My health insurance premium has dropped by $50 for next year.  My wife's premium at work dropped $35 a month AND they are going to put more money in her HSA every month.  Good stuff.  

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Federal prosecutors say former Trump lawyer was " motivated by greed ".

 

A lawyer motivated by greed , lol. Say it ain't so! I'm shocked I tell ya!

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1 hour ago, TwennyFo said:

M8, I agree 100%. Which is why it's so infuriating that he can use that defence and apparently all the repubs do is scratch their heads.

I fully expect them to next to start ****ing about how its not fair.

 

The whole chit show is a waste of time m8, and a huge waste of tax payer dollars.

What happened is that he's essentially pleading the fifth. He's not saying that he can't answer because of some sort of investigation. You know how I know that? Literally every single coworker of his is unemployed now. Or working for CNN. lol

I don't think it's a waste of tax dollars. I wish it would have taken place a long time ago, but I get why it took so long. And they deliberately timed it so that they're lying just before Huber exposes them.

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The investigation is in conjunction with the FBI, that's why anyone questioned that lies has broken a law lying to the FBI.

The investigation, since it began May 17, 2017, has been conducted by the United States Department of Justice Special Counsel's Office, headed by Robert Mueller, a former Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). As part of his investigation, Mueller also took over several existing FBI investigations, including those involving former campaign chairman Paul Manafort and former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn.

There are a lot of dirty bastards in DC, on both sides of the fence...they're going to need a lot of orange jumpsuits when this is over. Even FOX jumped ship, only Q is left with conspiracy theories of the twisted web of coincidences that have surfaced to date.

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4 hours ago, Bwana said:

The investigation is in conjunction with the FBI, that's why anyone questioned that lies has broken a law lying to the FBI.

The investigation, since it began May 17, 2017, has been conducted by the United States Department of Justice Special Counsel's Office, headed by Robert Mueller, a former Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). As part of his investigation, Mueller also took over several existing FBI investigations, including those involving former campaign chairman Paul Manafort and former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn.

There are a lot of dirty bastards in DC, on both sides of the fence...they're going to need a lot of orange jumpsuits when this is over. Even FOX jumped ship, only Q is left with conspiracy theories of the twisted web of coincidences that have surfaced to date.

Seems like the Trump team is trying to make things happen. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/03/28/when-it-comes-guantanamo-trump-truly-builder-chief.html

Massive amounts of sealed indictments and this...

Coincidence? :lol:

All those "arrest" to come i doubt they ever come on a massive scale if at all. IDK how much i buy into Q conspiracies but there is definitely a bunch of smoke with a whole plethora of big fights going on behind the scenes. Take for instance all the intel leaks, FISA abuse, spying, media spin & trying to build fake cases for grounds of impeachment etc.. < = Powers that be are scared.

What is concerning is stuff like this... The pendulum swinging back hard benefits whom i ask? 

Massive overhaul of the financial system, the military & laws. <Big changes on the horizon seems to be imminent however it begs the question can the system survive abrupt change. It will collapse if not done gradually imo. Who prospers from a big collapse? Likely not the US or her people i can tell you that. 

Then all the fear and rush going on back n forth...

New hacking tools developed to hack all kinds of digital devices back in 2017.  The nationwide alert test which likely gave full access to chips on phones. 7 CIA mainframes and many surveillance satellites going down back in August. Those are just a few but there is a whole bunch of stuff like that going on back n forth behind the scenes. MASSIVE data collection from corporations & government . The internet of things, the singularity. AI learning & predictive programming.

Do people have any clue what can be done with massive amounts of data points on all people and things? I REALLY don't think people understand what kind of power that is. 

Meanwhile people are like weeeee this is great. Enjoy the show folks. Let's not bat an eye about all this cool really dangerous stuff being integrated. Let's focus on the circus while every last right & freedom is stripped away to the point that the people are much like programmed bots that will in the near future have no will or leverage what so ever. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by StompGrind
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@StompGrind

As an American you have the first amendment stomp. You have no idea how much power that gives you. Take it from Europe where free speech is all but consigned to the dustbin.

You also have the second amendment which is a very handy thing to have in the back pocket.

 

I'm curious, what are these rights and freedoms you feel have been taken away? 

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12 hours ago, TwennyFo said:

Comey testifying behind closed doors today. His testimony consists of "I can't remember' and "on the advice of councel I refuse to answer that question".

Why do they even bother?

How do you know that if it was behind closed doors? I may have missed something but really didn't even hear this anywhere, let alone from reliable sources. Besides, that's the exact excuse I've been hearing from Trumpites at various times for quite a while, did you criticize them for the same thing?

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9 hours ago, Bwana said:

Comey isn't obligated to discuss an open investigation, he'll claim classified information and will face no repercussions,,,,attorneys will state legal prudence and walk away.

It's a waste of time, other than GOP grandstanding for tv interviews yet to come....RINO's

What's even sillier is that they are spending time investigating Clinton emails when at worst that seems to be a bad decision rather than anything criminal. And considering that Comey's reopening of that investigation immediately prior to the '16 election is what tipped the election toward Trump seems a little odd. And Trump's always taking about deleted emails but my understanding is that all those emails have been investigated and were in fact personal stuff unrelated at all to US government work. It's just GOP deflection. That said, that's no where near as bad as GOP state governments trying to pass laws suppressing the powers of newly elected Dem governors. Exactly the same chit any reasonable person should be strongly opposed to regardless of political affiliation.

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4 minutes ago, Yerbo said:

How do you know that if it was behind closed doors? I may have missed something but really didn't even hear this anywhere, let alone from reliable sources. Besides, that's the exact excuse I've been hearing from Trumpites at various times for quite a while, did you criticize them for the same thing?

Darrell Issa, one of the Republicans actually asking Comey questions, you'll find him being interviewed by Fox news.

Now, enlighten me as to the bold. 

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8 hours ago, cashfl0w said:

The definition of grandstanding is wasting time by yacking. The Republicans wouldn't have anything to gain from doing that at a closed door session. lol

Lastly, you guys can believe me or not, but James Comey cannot use the ongoing investigation excuse. Period. The FBI isn't investigating anything. Mueller is, but the FBI is not involved and he would have no info. That's facts, like it or not.

That absolutely is NOT the definition of grandstanding.

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2 minutes ago, Yerbo said:

What's even sillier is that they are spending time investigating Clinton emails when at worst that seems to be a bad decision rather than anything criminal. 

Scrap my previous post. Any shred of credibility you might have had went straight down the pan with your opening gambit.

Adios.

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1 minute ago, TwennyFo said:

Darrell Issa, one of the Republicans actually asking Comey questions, you'll find him being interviewed by Fox news.

Now, enlighten me as to the bold. 

So why have closed door hearings if someone is allowed to walk out and spill it all immediately? hah...Doesn't sound too closed at all

The bold is obvious, for starters Sessions must have used the "I don't recall" line 1/2 a dozen times minimum while testifying when all this crap started.

 

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1 minute ago, TwennyFo said:

Scrap my previous post. Any shred of credibility you might have had went straight down the pan with your opening gambit.

Adios.

No gambit here.....just discussing

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1 hour ago, TwennyFo said:

@StompGrind

As an American you have the first amendment stomp. You have no idea how much power that gives you. Take it from Europe where free speech is all but consigned to the dustbin.

You also have the second amendment which is a very handy thing to have in the back pocket.

 

I'm curious, what are these rights and freedoms you feel have been taken away? 

The individuals rights kinda mean fk all at this point. As a collective we still have power but the culture is divided by design and getting worse by the day. 

Here's a quick history though...

The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 created this situation...

nathanrothschild-he_who_controls_the_mon

The banking cartels, like minded corporate entities,  armies of lobbyist and special interest groups have grown in power and now taken over the political system, government & media through our monetary system. The few that control that control it all. The news media, hollywood, sports etc. is all a smoke screen to make people believe the American dream isn't already a corpse. 

The military industrial complex with their enormous budget and certain actors perpetuated many false pretenses and partial truths for a perpetual war on terror, drugs etc. which helped open the door for things like the patriot act and other laws that give them the power to do as they please with little to no accountability because they're too big to fail, hold more monetary leverage and have trade or propriety secrets with little oversight. The individuals rights are a corpse in comparison and we don't even know it. 

On top of that the government and their big business partners essentially have the right to spy on everyone, collect massive data sets which is now being used for all sorts of nefarious activities that is not only unfair to individual citizens but sinister in nature. More and more laws are being passed each yr in favor of big business to run amok with little disclosure or rights to protection for consumers with less liability for businesses and it's all legal to slowly poison people via the food supply, chemicals in most products, knocking out competition of more natural products which are more costly to produce because of the laws and subsidies are in place to keep all the sick plebs dependent on the teet, dependent on their synthetic drugs and it's all allowed to keep the population under control, keep up with inflation, bleed us with taxes, sell us chit we don't need and the huge spending budgets of secretive government projects are designed to manipulate and exploit other countries and the worlds resources. 

Why is a country supposedly so rich with industry so far in debt? I realize we can't be fully transparent but where is all this money going that really isn't doing much for the people except getting us in all these problems both domestically and abroad that we are gonna have to pay for in the form of crappier lesser products that do harm and endless wars when they set it all up in the first fkn place. 

Not only that but the NDAA bill that was passed has legal loopholes that any citizen can to be tried as an enemy combatant without due process which is just gonna open more doors for extending those laws. When people started getting woke to all this corruption and protested suddenly HR 347 came along restricting rights to peaceful protest. Then you have this thing with net neutrality and censoring the internet so eventually you won't even have a voice there either. 

It's madness. If you asked me the best strategy to slowly cook and poison a country this would be it. The barbarians are at the gates of Rome....

I don't really have a problem with Trump and a large group of patriots trying to cut out the rot from the system but it does raise the question what structure is left, who benefits and how easy would it be to topple what's left and takeover or isolate America to where the empire collapses? 

If that's done in one fell swoop it's a very real possibility Trump is going to have to build a wall to keep people in not out so we definitely need to proceed with caution not fear and bi-polar-ism, & in-fighting going on in America. 

Really i just want a good balance of things with a focus in infrastructure. These extreme pendulum swings are creating chaos by design if you ask me and the average folk cannot fix that but we will have to pay for it with everything across the board getting systematically worse.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by StompGrind
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4 hours ago, Yerbo said:

That absolutely is NOT the definition of grandstanding.

grand·stand
/ˈɡran(d)ˌstand/
verb
DEROGATORY
gerund or present participle: grandstanding
  1. seek to attract applause or favorable attention from spectators or the media

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4 hours ago, Yerbo said:

What's even sillier is that they are spending time investigating Clinton emails when at worst that seems to be a bad decision rather than anything criminal. And considering that Comey's reopening of that investigation immediately prior to the '16 election is what tipped the election toward Trump seems a little odd. And Trump's always taking about deleted emails but my understanding is that all those emails have been investigated and were in fact personal stuff unrelated at all to US government work. It's just GOP deflection. That said, that's no where near as bad as GOP state governments trying to pass laws suppressing the powers of newly elected Dem governors. Exactly the same chit any reasonable person should be strongly opposed to regardless of political affiliation.

This is P4P the stupidest post in this thread. lol

You are a straight up zombie. 

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4 hours ago, TwennyFo said:

Scrap my previous post. Any shred of credibility you might have had went straight down the pan with your opening gambit.

Adios.

Threef 

Totally agree. This guy is out in left field with his thumb up his ****.

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39 minutes ago, cashfl0w said:

This is P4P the stupidest post in this thread. lol

You are a straight up zombie. 

Funny, since it was all true. But that's typical Trumpite tactics on your part. Deny and insult.....

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42 minutes ago, cashfl0w said:
grand·stand
/ˈɡran(d)ˌstand/
verb
DEROGATORY
gerund or present participle: grandstanding
  1. seek to attract applause or favorable attention from spectators or the media

Exactly, which is not what you said.

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Are you ready for 5G networks? It's all the rage in tech right now. 

I mean internet will be faster  ( 15-50% ) in areas with lots of towers so you can probably DL all your fav shows etc. in seconds. Due the the low frequency coverage which isn't as good at passing through buildings etc. it may not work as well in crowded areas without a large amount of towers.

Disclaimer: Oh but these high powered low frequency waves if concentrated may damage DNA and give you radiation cancer but hey onward for the telecoms, medical field,  big pharma, big brothers data collection efforts & defense funded experiments. These silly guinea pigs will never know. It's all a part of the "smart" plan.

https://www.jrseco.com/eu-reflex-study-shows-dna-damage-caused-by-radiation-from-wireless-devices-and-mobile-phones/

^^ This is the kinda stuff i was referring to in my previous post. Maybe it's not that bad though....one would hope. Research "fragrance loophole" for another big reason industry and your politicians do not care about poisoning us plebs.  I guess i'm a true cynic of all these science and tech"advancements" which i wouldn't have a problem with if they were transparent, provided warning and were held accountable for liability in some cases where they don't disclose instead of basically having immunity because of capitol, laws in their favor and a whole gang of lawyers. 

Meanwhile disease for the leading causes of death seems to be creeping up steadily in 5 out of 12 of the top categories, mental health & depression are on the rise & fertility rates are going down world wide. I wonder of it's all related to the social engineering of culture, food tampering, chemicals in nearly all products, harmful exposure to frequencies of digital products along with the mass increase in media/ad programming in the we consume/obey agenda daily...maybe the food tampering and chemicals in everything wasn't working quite fast enough so they decided to up the ante?...hmmm

Edited by StompGrind
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7 hours ago, Yerbo said:

What's even sillier is that they are spending time investigating Clinton emails when at worst that seems to be a bad decision rather than anything criminal. And considering that Comey's reopening of that investigation immediately prior to the '16 election is what tipped the election toward Trump seems a little odd. And Trump's always taking about deleted emails but my understanding is that all those emails have been investigated and were in fact personal stuff unrelated at all to US government work. It's just GOP deflection. That said, that's no where near as bad as GOP state governments trying to pass laws suppressing the powers of newly elected Dem governors. Exactly the same chit any reasonable person should be strongly opposed to regardless of political affiliation.

The fact that they have the balls to still try to use Clinton's emails as a distraction when everyone knows they are all using personal email is hilarious.

It's reported Ivanka is using a private email one week and then the house GOP wants to hold hearings about Hillary's emails from 6 years ago without a hint of irony.

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4 minutes ago, 12er© said:

The fact that they have the balls to still try to use Clinton's emails as a distraction when everyone knows they are all using personal email is hilarious.

It's reported Ivanka is using a private email one week and then the house GOP wants to hold hearings about Hillary's emails from 6 years ago without a hint of irony.

LMAO

Ivanka is merely Donald Trump's daughter. She does not have a former title. On top of that, she phased out her private email address for the government one within a couple months of her father taking office. She also turned over everything when asked, and it has not been reported that her private email has been hacked by anyone, nor that she discussed classified matters on it.

Hillary was only exposed to have been using a private email server during an investigation on another issue while she was Secretary of State. It was ongoing for years. She was found to have discussed classified matters on it, and when she was told to turn it over to investigators, she had the evidence destroyed digitally and physically. Later on it was revealed that it had been hacked by numerous countries, including our biggest enemies, China and Russia. 

Even a true zombie like yourself can see the difference, right? 

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12 minutes ago, Bezerker101 said:

'17 Clinton Foundation whistleblowers will testify before Jan 3 -

Intradesting. Source? 

There are many references to Q and the letter 17. Happens to be the 17th letter of the alphabet.

Reddit has banned 17 q-anon communities

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-bans-qanon-subreddits-after-months-violent-threats-n909061

That presidential test alert was 17 letters long and i'm sure there is a whole bunch of chit like that. 

https://qanon.pub/?

They been planning this for a long time eh. 

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6 minutes ago, cashfl0w said:

LMAO

Ivanka is merely Donald Trump's daughter. She does not have a former title. On top of that, she phased out her private email address for the government one within a couple months of her father taking office. She also turned over everything when asked, and it has not been reported that her private email has been hacked by anyone, nor that she discussed classified matters on it.

Hillary was only exposed to have been using a private email server during an investigation on another issue while she was Secretary of State. It was ongoing for years. She was found to have discussed classified matters on it, and when she was told to turn it over to investigators, she had the evidence destroyed digitally and physically. Later on it was revealed that it had been hacked by numerous countries, including our biggest enemies, China and Russia. 

Even a true zombie like yourself can see the difference, right? 

Wrong.

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Not just using emails wrongly 12'er. Wikileaks & Clinton foundation investigation into killary and slick willy's corruption of using political office for financial gain is the reason these treasonous bastards go down if they do.

There is strong evidence of major wrong doing from the Huber investigation which evidently has concluded and they have enough to proceed on. 

The is like when the mob started getting their balls busted over the RICO act. Snitches finna come out of the wood works to save their @ss. 

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1 minute ago, cashfl0w said:

Deep. I see why you feel that way. Sound logic, as usual.

There's no point in trying to engage someone who exclusively watches Trump tv. 

He'll be getting dragged to prison in handcuff's and you'll be unaware.

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10 minutes ago, StompGrind said:

Intradesting. Source? 

There are many references to Q and the letter 17. Happens to be the 17th letter of the alphabet.

Reddit has banned 17 q-anon communities

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-bans-qanon-subreddits-after-months-violent-threats-n909061

That presidential test alert was 17 letters long and i'm sure there is a whole bunch of chit like that. 

https://qanon.pub/?

They been planning this for a long time eh. 

 

2017 ... this has to do w/ the 141 million $ Russian kickback just before the foundation shut down

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3 minutes ago, StompGrind said:

Not just using emails wrongly 12'er. Wikileaks & Clinton foundation investigation into killary and slick willy's corruption of using political office for financial gain is the reason these treasonous bastards go down if they do.

There is strong evidence of major wrong doing from the Huber investigation which evidently has concluded and they have enough to proceed on. 

The is like when the mob started getting their balls busted over the RICO act. Snitches finna come out of the wood works to save their @ss. 

They can go hang out with their buddies in Guantanamo.

1 minute ago, 12er© said:

There's no point in trying to engage someone who exclusively watches Trump tv. 

He'll be getting dragged to prison in handcuff's and you'll be unaware.

Zombified.

Edited by cashfl0w
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6 minutes ago, StompGrind said:

Not just using emails wrongly 12'er. Wikileaks & Clinton foundation investigation into killary and slick willy's corruption of using political office for financial gain is the reason these treasonous bastards go down if they do.

There is strong evidence of major wrong doing from the Huber investigation which evidently has concluded and they have enough to proceed on. 

The is like when the mob started getting their balls busted over the RICO act. Snitches finna come out of the wood works to save their @ss. 

1. I was referring specifically to the Comey hearing, which was/is specifically about the investigation into Clinton's emails.

2. Republicans have spent millions of dollars and decades investigating Whitewater, Benghazi, emails, ect and all they got was their **** in their hands. The Clintons are irrelevant and only being brought up today as a distraction from the fact that Trump's inner circle is being brought down one by one.

Trump's ****ing lawyer is going to prison and these dummies are talking about reviving investigations that already led nowhere years ago.

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