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Jolldan

Boxing Thread: Joshua vs. Miller In Doubt After Failed Drug Test

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For me Ali is the greatest for everything he did inside and outside the ring. He will never be touched, it will never be repeated. Evander over Tyson probably makes sense but I know someone that would go on a serious rant because Joe Lewis isn't mentioned and I have to agree. Funny no one cares about that 49-0 because Rocky didn't get the toughest fights.

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Just off the top of my head, probably only the top 3 are definite.

 

1. Muhammad Ali

2. Joe Louis

3. Rocky Marciano

4. Jack Johnson

5. George Foreman

6. Jack Dempsey

7. Mike Tyson

8. Joe Frazier

9. Lennox Lewis

10. Evander Holyfield

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I like this list ^ Would maybe just bump Lewis a little higher and throw Klitschko in the 10 spot. 

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Just off the top of my head, probably only the top 3 are definite.

 

1. Muhammad Ali

2. Joe Louis

3. Rocky Marciano

4. Jack Johnson

5. George Foreman

6. Jack Dempsey

7. Mike Tyson

8. Joe Frazier

9. Lennox Lewis

10. Evander Holyfield

 

Can't speak on all of them but Lewis doesn't get the credit he earned. He should be higher than Mike as should Smokin Joe

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Can't speak on all of them but Lewis doesn't get the credit he earned. He should be higher than Mike as should Smokin Joe

 

I just can't ignore prime Lennox Lewis losing to Oliver McCall and getting knocked out by Hasim Rahman. As for Tyson, there were 2 different Tysons, one was an all time great, and one was garbage. I think that objective boxing fans don't give Lennox as much credit for beating a washed up Tyson as his fans do.

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Just off the top of my head, probably only the top 3 are definite.

 

1. Muhammad Ali

2. Joe Louis

3. Rocky Marciano

4. Jack Johnson

5. George Foreman

6. Jack Dempsey

7. Mike Tyson

8. Joe Frazier

9. Lennox Lewis

10. Evander Holyfield

I'd have to add Larry Holmes in there, and fairly high up, maybe #6. Other than that the list is a good one.

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I'd have to add Larry Holmes in there, and fairly high up, maybe #6. Other than that the list is a good one.

I thought about Holmes at number 10, but chose Holyfield, mostly on the fact that he was light heavyweight, cruiserweight, and heavyweight champion. Maybe that shouldn't matter.

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I thought about Holmes at number 10, but chose Holyfield, mostly on the fact that he was light heavyweight, cruiserweight, and heavyweight champion. Maybe that shouldn't matter.

Yeah good point about the different weigh classes for Evander but I think you're right, that doesn't necessarily make him a better HW. Frankly I think Homes should be ranked higher ranked than Lewis too. 69-6 record for Holmes, only 44-10 for Evander. That should be enough to drop him right there. And their competition was probably about the same quality. Lewis was 41-2 which is impressive but maybe it's just because I don't like the guy. He started boxing in Canada, was raised there pretty much then represented Canada in the Olympics but abandoned us! Thing is, he did have 15 championship wins but Holmes had 20! (disclaimer: Holmes was one of my fave fighters regardless of weight or era hah). And even though Lewis had a good KO ratio, even better than Holmes, I always felt I was watching a point fighter who was a little too lacking in aggression. Plus, I don't think Lewis ever had a fight as great as Norton v Holmes. That was epic!

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LEL boxing

Might suck for the most part now, but it was definitely a great sport for a long, long time. Even with all the shady aspects hah. But you know that.

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I just can't ignore prime Lennox Lewis losing to Oliver McCall and getting knocked out by Hasim Rahman. As for Tyson, there were 2 different Tysons, one was an all time great, and one was garbage. I think that objective boxing fans don't give Lennox as much credit for beating a washed up Tyson as his fans do.

 

That was Lewis taking the night off, which he proved when he easily avenged those. I also don't rate Lewis based off his win over Mike. Keep in mind though that fight didn't happen sooner because of Mike, just like the Bowe fight never coming off wasn't on Lewis either. Prime Lennox beat better opposition than prime Mike did. 

 

When I think objectively, Lewis cleaned out his division which was the last great decade for HW and faced all the contenders. I also would favour him in mythical match-ups against other guys on your list, if he decided to show up that is and wasn't being too full of himself.

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That was Lewis taking the night off, which he proved when he easily avenged those. I also don't rate Lewis based off his win over Mike. Keep in mind though that fight didn't happen sooner because of Mike, just like the Bowe fight never coming off wasn't on Lewis either. Prime Lennox beat better opposition than prime Mike did. 

 

When I think objectively, Lewis cleaned out his division which was the last great decade for HW and faced all the contenders. I also would favour him in mythical match-ups against other guys on your list, if he decided to show up that is and wasn't being too full of himself.

I'm starting to like today's heavyweight picture.

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  1. Muhammad Ali
  2. Joe Louis
  3. Rocky Marciano
  4. Larry Holmes
  5. Lennox Lewis
  6. Joe Frazier
  7. George Foreman
  8. Evander Holyfield
  9. Mike Tyson
  10. Sonny Liston 

 

Honourable mentions: Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Wladimir Klitschko, Sam Langford and John L. Sullivan.

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Interesting times ahead.  Parker's probably got more of a chance than the bookies give him, although less than undoubtedly Oz gives him.  I think that Joshua will get his hand raised though.

 

Whyte has been making a lot of noise about fighting Wilder, but I can't see that happening; I'm sure Deontay can wait a few more months to get that big stadium fight.

 

Throw Fury in the mix and you've got 4 top HW's with unbeaten records at the moment. Wonder how many will be intact by the end of the year?

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Interesting times ahead.  Parker's probably got more of a chance than the bookies give him, although less than undoubtedly Oz gives him.  I think that Joshua will get his hand raised though.

 

Whyte has been making a lot of noise about fighting Wilder, but I can't see that happening; I'm sure Deontay can wait a few more months to get that big stadium fight.

 

Throw Fury in the mix and you've got 4 top HW's with unbeaten records at the moment. Wonder how many will be intact by the end of the year?

 

 

If everything goes smoothly for Joshua against Parker I think you see Joshua vs. Wilder in London by the end of the year.

 

  • Give Whyte either Kubrat Pulev (who was meant to fight Joshua for the title before he got injured. He's super legit only loss is to Wladimir Klitschko back in 2014)
  • Or Manuel Charr (he holds the WBA regular title so a win here would further strengthen his claim for a shot at Wilder or Joshua.)

 

Watch out for Jarrell Miller only 29 years old with 21 fights 20 wins 0 losses 1 draw as well you will probably start to hear about him more the end of this year start of next year.

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Jolldan, I think you should update the title back to just The Boxing Thread.  People probably think it's still just about the top ten.

 

I'm hearing that Wilder is not going to be at the fight on Saturday night.  Dude is missing a trick; frankly, he needs Joshua a lot more than Joshua needs him.  His last fight netted him $1M fighting in front of 14,000.  Parker's going to take home $10M fighting in front of 75,000.  It's a bit puzzling tbh; he always comes across as quite charismatic in front of the camera so I'm not sure why he's not getting himself out there more.

 

Wonder if my American cousins have a take on this?  What's the deal?

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Jolldan, I think you should update the title back to just The Boxing Thread.  People probably think it's still just about the top ten.

 

I'm hearing that Wilder is not going to be at the fight on Saturday night.  Dude is missing a trick; frankly, he needs Joshua a lot more than Joshua needs him.  His last fight netted him $1M fighting in front of 14,000.  Parker's going to take home $10M fighting in front of 75,000.  It's a bit puzzling tbh; he always comes across as quite charismatic in front of the camera so I'm not sure why he's not getting himself out there more.

 

Wonder if my American cousins have a take on this?  What's the deal?

Wilder still thinks he is  the draw.

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Wilder would knock all those morons out. He can do what he wants.

except get paid handsomely it seems...

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Wilder would knock all those morons out. He can do what he wants.

Seriously though. Let's park our national pride and hubris for a second.

 

He's getting paid peanuts to fight in front of small crowds when he could be earning ten times that fighting in stadiums. What do you think the rationale is? Doesn't want to risk his belt? Worried about home town favoritism? I just don't get why he's not breaking his back to get the Joshua fight.

Edited by Bubba_Sparks

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Jolldan, I think you should update the title back to just The Boxing Thread.  People probably think it's still just about the top ten.

 

I'm hearing that Wilder is not going to be at the fight on Saturday night.  Dude is missing a trick; frankly, he needs Joshua a lot more than Joshua needs him.  His last fight netted him $1M fighting in front of 14,000.  Parker's going to take home $10M fighting in front of 75,000.  It's a bit puzzling tbh; he always comes across as quite charismatic in front of the camera so I'm not sure why he's not getting himself out there more.

 

Wonder if my American cousins have a take on this?  What's the deal?

 

Made that change now.

 

Yeah Hearn's not meant to be happy that he's pulled out. Wilder is an odd one the first American Heavyweight champion in nine years, which was the longest period of time in boxing history without an American heavyweight champion. So you'd think the US audience would have gravitated towards him straight away but its taken a while. He's now starting to pull in better viewing numbers now so the Joshua fight is more of a reality.

 

Think if it does happen the fight will probably happen in the UK.

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Seriously though. Let's park our national pride and hubris for a second.

 

He's getting paid peanuts to fight in front of small crowds when he could be earning ten times that fighting in stadiums. What do you think the rationale is? Doesn't want to risk his belt? Worried about home town favoritism? I just don't get why he's not breaking his back to get the Joshua fight.

Wilder is the draw. He wants to fight for his people.

 

Nobody watches these boxing matches at three in the afternoon. It may as well not even be happening.

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except get paid handsomely it seems...

I don't know about you, but a million dollars for about 20 mins of work max is a hell of a lot more than I make.
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Wilder is the draw. He wants to fight for his people.

 

Nobody watches these boxing matches at three in the afternoon. It may as well not even be happening.

Mate, these responses are making me suspect you don't watch this chit and are just trying to troll an innocent Brit.

 

Where the heck is Patster when you want to have a serious discussion about Wilder??

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Mate, these responses are making me suspect you don't watch this chit and are just trying to troll an innocent Brit.

 

Where the heck is Patster when you want to have a serious discussion about Wilder??

It's impossible to watch some of these bums like Whyte because their fights don't even air over here. lol
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It's impossible to watch some of these bums like Whyte because their fights don't even air over here. lol

Lol, Whyte is undoubtedly a bit of a bum....lost comfortably to Joshua, beats a fat Australian and thinks he can call out World Champions.

Wilder would annihilate him.

 

Wilder v Joshua not happening will be a bigger travesty than GSP not fighting Silva.

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Lol, Whyte is undoubtedly a bit of a bum....lost comfortably to Joshua, beats a fat Australian and thinks he can call out World Champions.

Wilder would annihilate him.

 

Wilder v Joshua not happening will be a bigger travesty than GSP not fighting Silva.

He'll fight him, but it needs to be in a proper venue like Madison Square Garden, and not happen at three in the afternoon.
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He'll fight him, but it needs to be in a proper venue like Madison Square Garden, and not happen at three in the afternoon.

 

As of now I can't see it, things can change but Joshua is currently the A side and he has no desire to fight outside the UK, filling out those big arenas is too easy and lucrative for him right now to turn down.

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He'll fight him, but it needs to be in a proper venue like Madison Square Garden, and not happen at three in the afternoon.

I'm a sentimentalist....so if they're going to unify HW belts I'd love it to be at MSG.

 

That said, when Joshua's filling out 80k stadiums over here whilst Wilder's drawing 15k over there I just don't see it happening.  For whatever reason, atm, the UK public are shelling out a lot more money to watch AJ fight than the US are to watch Wilder fight.  Gotta follow the money.

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I don't know about you, but a million dollars for about 20 mins of work max is a hell of a lot more than I make.

making 30x that at least for the same amount of work would seem a better deal to me

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This is the problem with boxing. The sport has all but died over here, and there really aren't any die hard boxing fans.

 

On top of that, the money grubbing networks like HBO and Showtime have hidden all the worthwhile boxers on their channels, and even people who watch boxing don't see most of the better fights. It's ridiculous.

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This is the problem with boxing. The sport has all but died over here, and there really aren't any die hard boxing fans.

 

On top of that, the money grubbing networks like HBO and Showtime have hidden all the worthwhile boxers on their channels, and even people who watch boxing don't see most of the better fights. It's ridiculous.

yeah boxing outside of title fights/eliminators are nearly non existent to the wider public.
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It's a genuine shame.  Seems that right now boxing has the potential to get back somewhere near it's heyday.  It's certainly a lot more interesting right now than when only people with the surname Klitschko held belts.

 

From what you've said Cash, plus reading around, I kind of feel sorry for Wilder.  Eddie Hearn and Sky have promoted/pushed the heck out of AJ.  If Wilder had received the same push he'd be filling MSG regularly and be in a much stronger financial and negotiating position. Think I read somewhere that he does most of his own promotion.

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It doesn't help that he was having fight after fight in Birmingham, Alabama. Nobody is traveling to f'in Birmingham, Alabama for a boxing match. Nobody.

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It doesn't help that he was having fight after fight in Birmingham, Alabama. Nobody is traveling to f'in Birmingham, Alabama for a boxing match. Nobody.

lol. I still don't get that one.  Who the fook did he owe money to down there?  Only reason i can see for it

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This is the retarded state of American boxing, man.

 

Terrence Crawford just fought in Lincoln, Nebraska or some chit. Somebody needs to pay me to handle this. I can do better right now.

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It's a genuine shame.  Seems that right now boxing has the potential to get back somewhere near it's heyday.  It's certainly a lot more interesting right now than when only people with the surname Klitschko held belts.

 

From what you've said Cash, plus reading around, I kind of feel sorry for Wilder.  Eddie Hearn and Sky have promoted/pushed the heck out of AJ.  If Wilder had received the same push he'd be filling MSG regularly and be in a much stronger financial and negotiating position. Think I read somewhere that he does most of his own promotion.

 

 

Yeah the Heavyweight division is finally back to a place where you have some interesting potential matchup's and the audience just doesn't seem to be there.

 

 

It doesn't help that he was having fight after fight in Birmingham, Alabama. Nobody is traveling to f'in Birmingham, Alabama for a boxing match. Nobody.

 

 

His promoter needs shot for allowing that lol, he seemed like a hometown guy when he was on Big Brown Breakdown so I can understand wanting to fight for your local crowd but you have to move keep moving onwards and upwards.

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His promoter needs shot for allowing that lol, he seemed like a hometown guy when he was on Big Brown Breakdown so I can understand wanting to fight for your local crowd but you have to move keep moving onwards and upwards.

 

Same as British fighters not coming to Las Vegas.

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Same as British fighters not coming to Las Vegas.

AJ is making a Fortune fighting in the UK. He won't make more fighting in the US. The same can not be said for Wilder.

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Same as British fighters not coming to Las Vegas.

 

I get your argument but plenty of British fighter go to Vegas and currently why would he go over there?

 

The whole animosity thing is bull **** its all about the money and currently AJ is generating an insane amount in the UK. He's expected to make around £18 million all together for the Parker fight alone.

 

I think I am right in saying that is one of the biggest purses in British boxing history.

 

Comparatively Wilder is pulling in relatively average revenue for a Heavyweight champion.

 

 

Lol at you plebs looking past Joseph.

 

I like Parker but there was nothing in his Fury fight that said to me he can beat Joshua.

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