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New Jersey governor refuses to ban child marriage because 'it would conflict with religious customs'


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#1 Jolldan

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 03:59 AM

WTF New Jersey!!!

 

A high profile Republican governor has declined to sign into law, a measure that would have made his state the first to ban child marriage without exception.

 

Chris Christie, the governor of New Jersey and someone who has been a staunch supporter of Donald Trump, said such a ban would conflict with religious customs. He did not specify what religions he was referring to.

 

Reuters said underage marriage is widespread in the US, where about 170,000 children were wed between 2000 and 2010 in 38 of the 50 states where data was available.

 

Although age 18 is the minimum for marriage in most of the nation, every state has legal loopholes allowing children to wed. The New Jersey bill would have prohibited any marriage of children under age 18.

 

Mr Christie conditionally vetoed the measure, sending it back to the state legislature with proposed changes. He said it should have an exception so a judge can approve marriages for 16- and 17-year-olds.

 

“An exclusion without exceptions would violate the cultures and traditions of some communities in New Jersey based on religious traditions,” Mr Christie said in a statement.

 

 


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#2 cashfl0w

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 04:05 AM

Chris Christie is also against marijuana, medical or otherwise.
      
I think his pea brain fell out of his head and he ate it. The guy is a fat moron.


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#3 xFINISHxHIMx

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 04:14 AM

What is this Afghanistan? SMFH.
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#4 SVTContour98

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 04:52 AM

not a single State has banned this yet?


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#5 Mcmax3000

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 05:34 AM

The more I see **** like this, the more I'm starting to become anti-religion.


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#6 UFCCagerattler

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:33 AM

in the bible issac married rebecca when she was 3.

 

in biblical times girls were married when they reached puberty - generally from age 8 onward.

 

this is the basis for Trump type supporters to say the mohamed was a pedophile - because he married in the custom of his time and culture - like everyone else.

 

because the republicans in general have a large proportional of these jebus people who believe the world is going to end shortly (therefore negating the need to be concerned about things like climate change) it is only logical that these types of marriages still go on.

 

article-0-015CF78800000578-471_468x589.j

 

the Killer and his 13 year old cousin bride. 

 

he came from down south where people still marry their kinfolk like normal people.



#7 TheSinisterUrge

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:34 AM

The more I see **** like this, the more I'm starting to become anti-religion.


Welcome to the club. It's great in here, no one judges you for touching yourself, just the pr0nz you watch while doing so.

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#8 Mcmax3000

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:40 AM

Welcome to the club. It's great in here, no one judges you for touching yourself, just the pr0nz you watch while doing so.

We're looking at you, You...

 

I've never been religious, but my attitude in the past was always "believe what you want to believe", but more, and more it feels like people are trying to use their religion to justify being **** holes, and doing awful ****, so I'm starting to lose that attitude.


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#9 TheSinisterUrge

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:43 AM

I've never been religious, but my attitude in the past was always "believe what you want to believe", but more, and more it feels like people are trying to use their religion to justify being **** holes, and doing awful ****, so I'm starting to lose that attitude.


You are just becoming more aware of it, because that has always been the case with Abrahamic religions.
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#10 UFCCagerattler

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:46 AM

You are just becoming more aware of it, because that has always been the case with Abrahamic religions.

also the case with non abrahamic religions


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#11 Mcmax3000

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:50 AM

You are just becoming more aware of it

 

Probably, although it does also feel like it's getting worse.


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#12 TheSinisterUrge

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:50 AM

also the case with non abrahamic religions


Not all of them so I didn't want to paint all religions with broad brush strokes. But yes, a vast majority of religion is basically an excuse to act like an A-Hole with impunity.

There is plenty of good to go with the bad, so I'll never call for religious practice to be outlawed. But it should never be used to influence policy or law.
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#13 TheSinisterUrge

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:54 AM

Probably, although it does also feel like it's getting worse.


When compared to history, I think it is actually getting better. The internet makes the free exchange of ideas so much easier and the antiquated and often harmful ideals of religion are shrinking because of it. And when things like this happen, a much brighter spotlight is shown on them and public opinion often rallies against them, killing it on the spot.
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#14 -idyb-

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:34 AM

so over in jersey  women can ruin your life and take your house and car at the prime age of 16. smfh


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#15 sobercuban

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:36 AM

I'm pretty sure you can get married at 16 in NC with parents permission


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#16 -idyb-

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:37 AM

over in kentucky you could probably get married to your parents at 16


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#17 sobercuban

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:43 AM

over in kentucky you could probably get married to your parents at 16

I'm sure they had similar laws in other states but in NC they used to require a blood test when getting married to make sure that the person you were trying to marry wasn't related to you.


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#18 cashfl0w

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:45 AM

I'm sure they had similar laws in other states but in NC they used to require a blood test when getting married to make sure that the person you were trying to marry wasn't related to you.

Jesus. 

I would hope that's something you'd ensure on your own. lol.. Show up to Christmas at her grandma's house and be like "Oh ****! This is my grandma's house!"..


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#19 sobercuban

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:50 AM

Jesus. 

I would hope that's something you'd ensure on your own. lol.. Show up to Christmas at her grandma's house and be like "Oh ****! This is my grandma's house!"..

that would be so ****ed up


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#20 cashfl0w

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:52 AM

that would be so ****ed up

Black people.. smh
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#21 sobercuban

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:53 AM

Black people.. smh

agreed


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#22 juice64011

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 10:24 AM

I'm pretty sure you can get married at 16 in NC with parents permission

I think that most states are similar to that. What I didn't know is that you can get married earlier in some states with parent and Court approval.
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#23 TheSinisterUrge

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 01:12 PM

I'm sure they had similar laws in other states but in NC they used to require a blood test when getting married to make sure that the person you were trying to marry wasn't related to you.


I know a married couple that are legit cousins. They actually look like brother and sister. They haven't spoken to me in years because I gave them a ton of grief at their wedding reception and embarrassed their family when I drunkenly stole the mic from my friend who was the Best Man. I have no idea if they have spawned because they have me blocked on Facebook.
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#24 UFCCagerattler

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:11 PM

I'm sure they had similar laws in other states but in NC they used to require a blood test when getting married to make sure that the person you were trying to marry wasn't related to you.

blood tests were for stds. The technology to check your genetic history by blood test is new.



#25 IRT.

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:57 PM

I like this idea

 

no one is ready for marriage under the age of 25 realistically and will end up in divorce (usually) if you haven't reached full maturity


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#26 sobercuban

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:59 PM

I like this idea

 

no one is ready for marriage under the age of 25 realistically and will end up in divorce (usually) if you haven't reached full maturity

wat?


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#27 StompGrind

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 08:06 PM

Christie is a dope and this is fooking retarded but I'm not surprised nobody mentioned India or Thailand etc. yet. It's all blame the Christians and Muslims up in here. lol

 

I am surprised no state has banned it yet. Literally WTF! 


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#28 crangs

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 08:35 PM

I know a married couple that are legit cousins. They actually look like brother and sister. They haven't spoken to me in years because I gave them a ton of grief at their wedding reception and embarrassed their family when I drunkenly stole the mic from my friend who was the Best Man. I have no idea if they have spawned because they have me blocked on Facebook.

family that lived across the road from me as a kid the mum and dad were cousins. The kids were all inbred AF too. I've had FB friend requests from 3 out of 5 of them, lol.
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#29 -idyb-

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:55 PM

is it legal to marry your sheep in New Zealand?



#30 crangs

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:57 PM

is it legal to marry your sheep in New Zealand?

Who needs permission if it feels right?


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#31 -idyb-

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 10:00 PM

well some people might just want to get more than just attached to their sheep.   with all the weird **** SJW **** going around lately, you would think a weird group of sheep shaggers in new zealand would be trying to stand up for themselves and try to get some more rights and stuff.



#32 Bubba_Sparks

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 11:42 PM

Not all of them so I didn't want to paint all religions with broad brush strokes. But yes, a vast majority of religion is basically an excuse to act like an A-Hole with impunity.

There is plenty of good to go with the bad, so I'll never call for religious practice to be outlawed. But it should never be used to influence policy or law.


The vast majority of people use any stuff that fits to justify acting like a-holes. Don't blame religion, blame people. Most things done 'in the name' of religion tend to contradict what the belief system it's done in the name of preaches.

There is absolutely nothing in the bible that indicates any view of the correct age for marriage other than to follow the custom of the land at the time.
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#33 -idyb-

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:18 AM

at least they have a choice.  in alot of countries in the east  they have prearranged marriages where youre practically forced into marriage before youre even born


Edited by You, 17 May 2017 - 12:26 AM.

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#34 SavageTC

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:38 AM

How does that fat sack of crap even have a job after Drumpf publicly emasculated him?
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#35 TheSinisterUrge

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:32 AM

The vast majority of people use any stuff that fits to justify acting like a-holes. Don't blame religion, blame people. Most things done 'in the name' of religion tend to contradict what the belief system it's done in the name of preaches.

There is absolutely nothing in the bible that indicates any view of the correct age for marriage other than to follow the custom of the land at the time.


Most people are generally good, but it takes religion to tell people that the only punishment for rape is marriage and that women are property, not people. Because of that, the bible allowed father's to marry off their daughters at ages that we now deem to be too young.
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#36 TheSinisterUrge

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:33 AM

How does that fat sack of crap even have a job after Drumpf publicly emasculated him?


Lol, remember a few years ago when Republicans were hailing him as the savior and future of their party? Good times...
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#37 cashfl0w

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:35 AM

Lol, remember a few years ago when Republicans were hailing him as the savior and future of their party? Good times...

It's all media hype.
   
They do the same thing about Paul Ryan, but everybody I know in Wisconsin dislikes the guy.


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#38 TheSinisterUrge

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:36 AM

Christie is a dope and this is fooking retarded but I'm not surprised nobody mentioned India or Thailand etc. yet. It's all blame the Christians and Muslims up in here. lol

I am surprised no state has banned it yet. Literally WTF!


Lol, nobody cares enough about India to try to understand their religion because it has no real effect on our society. And Thailand has ladyboy BJ bars according to Stanley, so they really can't be taken seriously in the context of this conversation.

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#39 Bubba_Sparks

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:03 AM

Most people are generally good, but it takes religion to tell people that the only punishment for rape is marriage and that women are property, not people. Because of that, the bible allowed father's to marry off their daughters at ages that we now deem to be too young.

No, it takes evil people's deliberate mis-interpretation of scriptures.

The bible does not mention at what age people can or can't be married.  People do like to make stuff up though about what's in the bible so I'm not surprised this view is held (such as "Rebekah married Isaac at 8).

 

Do you honestly think that the vast majority of evil is caused by people following religion?  The millions robbed, the thousands murdered and raped are mainly down to religious people doing it because the bible says it's okay?  Smh.  It's very convenient to blame "religion" for anything we don't like so we can conveniently overlook the intrinsic rotten-ness of society.

 

 The bible is very clear that we should obey the law of the land.  If it says 18 is the legal minimum, then 18 it is.  Anyone claiming the bible justifies otherwise is twisting it to further their own agenda.  A bit like you're doing perhaps :)


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#40 -idyb-

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:04 AM

Most people are generally good, but it takes religion to tell people that the only punishment for rape is marriage and that women are property, not people. Because of that, the bible allowed father's to marry off their daughters at ages that we now deem to be too young.

yeah i remember reading about something like rapists marrying their victims in some weird country to avoid prosecution or some crazy **** quite a while back 

 

i still dont know if i believe it. i cant find exactly what it was, but here is basically a similar article if not it pertains to the same one i seen a while back.  i dont know if this is true. i wouldnt hope so anyways.  im sure theres a megasoup joke to be made here somewhere but ill refrain

 

Tackling The Law That Forces Rape Survivors To Marry Their Attackers

 

http://www.huffingto...4b07602ad542f1a


Edited by You, 17 May 2017 - 04:06 AM.


#41 StompGrind

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 11:24 AM

No, it takes evil people's deliberate mis-interpretation of scriptures.

The bible does not mention at what age people can or can't be married.  People do like to make stuff up though about what's in the bible so I'm not surprised this view is held (such as "Rebekah married Isaac at 8).

 

Do you honestly think that the vast majority of evil is caused by people following religion?  The millions robbed, the thousands murdered and raped are mainly down to religious people doing it because the bible says it's okay?  Smh.  It's very convenient to blame "religion" for anything we don't like so we can conveniently overlook the intrinsic rotten-ness of society.

 

 The bible is very clear that we should obey the law of the land.  If it says 18 is the legal minimum, then 18 it is.  Anyone claiming the bible justifies otherwise is twisting it to further their own agenda.  A bit like you're doing perhaps :)

Bingo that one little sentence nailed the point i was making. Everyone is so quick to point the finger at religion especially atheist.  I also don't blame guns when someone goes on a rampage & starts shooting folks. Same logic & reason applies here. 

 

There could be plenty of blame to go around with religion, the parents, societies culture which all have influence but ultimately it's the individual's responsibility to not become indoctrinated in drivel. 

 

I known all types of people from various different beliefs from Christians, Muslims, buddhists, wiccan, new age, agnostics, atheist you name it and not a single one of them would think that's ok. For the most part all the people i've met seem to be pretty moderate in their beliefs. 

 

That being said i do think religion can be dangerous but so can any idea, belief or even non belief if taken to extremes. Extreme entrenched convictions cause conflict. Should we ban all beliefs, all opposition & indifference to everything? What's left? lel

 

Me personally i'd rather freedom of options because while there may be conflict it brings some checks & balances despite the perceived chaos their is a harmony to that. 

 

@TSU is it all just crazy religious retarded hillbilly zealot folk with a smaller portion of dissenters of that brand of retardation with all those nutjobs up there in the north & or east coast?  That's what you guys make it seem like. 

 

I know from my bro in NY it's more of a melting pot like it was for me in NOLA so people tend to be more moderate and accepting. 


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#42 UFCCagerattler

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 05:54 PM

Ivanka asked Trump if she could borrow the car. He said only of you give me a BJ. So she took his mighty penis in her mouth and spit it out.

 

OMG she cried - this tastes like ****e

 

Oh I forgot Donald said - Don Jr already has the car.



#43 LennyTheBat

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:34 PM

No, it takes evil people's deliberate mis-interpretation of scriptures.

The bible does not mention at what age people can or can't be married.  People do like to make stuff up though about what's in the bible so I'm not surprised this view is held (such as "Rebekah married Isaac at 8).

 

Do you honestly think that the vast majority of evil is caused by people following religion?  The millions robbed, the thousands murdered and raped are mainly down to religious people doing it because the bible says it's okay?  Smh.  It's very convenient to blame "religion" for anything we don't like so we can conveniently overlook the intrinsic rotten-ness of society.

 

 The bible is very clear that we should obey the law of the land.  If it says 18 is the legal minimum, then 18 it is.  Anyone claiming the bible justifies otherwise is twisting it to further their own agenda.  A bit like you're doing perhaps :)

When an evil person has followers, that evil person's interpretation gets adopted by his followers.  Many times these evil interpretations are spread by other evil religious leaders picking up the same evil interpretation -- then you get a political force of evil

 

Also, not all bad takes are "evil".  Some are simply misinterpretations that have persisted -- like the Christian notion that it's OK to pollute the earth and treat animals in a cruel manner because of verses like Genesis 1:28, and also because the second coming means we don't need the earth for long...

 

Edit:  Also to your point -- is it not dangerously irresponsible to present a written work as the literal Word of God? Precisely because of "evil people's deliberate mis-interpretation of scriptures."  Otherwise, these evil people would be stuck justifying their evil on its own merits.


Edited by LennyTheBat, 17 May 2017 - 09:44 PM.

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#44 Yerbo

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 11:25 PM

The more I see **** like this, the more I'm starting to become anti-religion.

The thing is, what religion actually allows this by saying it is ok in their holy texts? People and even religions seem to confuse tradition with actual religious dogma. Many Muslims for example, as you all know, feel they need to cover their women's bodies from head to toe when all the religion says on that matter is that women should be dressed modestly. The definition of modestly is not given. It has become tradition but is not actually part of the religion to cover your entire body. I'd be surprised if a religious text expressly allows child marriage. And if it does it is probably a throwback to the days when life was always on the edge and women or even girls, needed to breed as early and as often as possible just to keep the race going.


Edited by Yerbo, 17 May 2017 - 11:41 PM.


#45 Yerbo

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 11:36 PM

It's all media hype.
   
They do the same thing about Paul Ryan, but everybody I know in Wisconsin dislikes the guy.

Anyone who has even the remotest appreciation for integrity hates the guy. The guy is a lying slime ball.



#46 -idyb-

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 11:40 PM

this whole thing is propaganda bull **** anyways

 

if the governor actually gave a rats **** about religious customs, then gay marriage wouldnt be legal in new jersey

 

if youre gay and you go to new jersey you can get married with someone of the same sex as you.   if youre gay and you go to saudi arabia, they will execute you. if youre straight and go to san francisco, they will convert you.

 

so who's religion is right?


Edited by You, 17 May 2017 - 11:43 PM.


#47 Bubba_Sparks

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 01:45 AM

When an evil person has followers, that evil person's interpretation gets adopted by his followers.  Many times these evil interpretations are spread by other evil religious leaders picking up the same evil interpretation -- then you get a political force of evil

 

Also, not all bad takes are "evil".  Some are simply misinterpretations that have persisted -- like the Christian notion that it's OK to pollute the earth and treat animals in a cruel manner because of verses like Genesis 1:28, and also because the second coming means we don't need the earth for long...

 

Edit:  Also to your point -- is it not dangerously irresponsible to present a written work as the literal Word of God? Precisely because of "evil people's deliberate mis-interpretation of scriptures."  Otherwise, these evil people would be stuck justifying their evil on its own merits.

Yes, i agree, it's not always driven by evil, it can be ignorance, or taking verses out of context (like the one you mention).

 

What makes me slightly miffed is that when people mis-use the bible to further their own agenda it's the bible's fault; with anything else, it's the person's fault.  Take Darwinism.  In the 19th century, Darwinism was used to justify slavery and general mis-treatment of African nations; the rationale was that they were a less evolved part of the species, so why shouldn't the more highly evolved people do what they wanted?  Shocking to hear now, but that was an issue with how people of the time interpreted Darwin's theory - it doesn't make Darwinism intrinsically evil.

 

Regarding your last point, I think i've answered that.  People will use anything.  The catholic church, for example, have over the centuries invented a whole doctrine not found anywhere in the bible.  People have blindly followed it.  The issue is people.  Not scripture, or religion.


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#48 LennyTheBat

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:36 AM

Yes, i agree, it's not always driven by evil, it can be ignorance, or taking verses out of context (like the one you mention).
 
What makes me slightly miffed is that when people mis-use the bible to further their own agenda it's the bible's fault; with anything else, it's the person's fault.  Take Darwinism.  In the 19th century, Darwinism was used to justify slavery and general mis-treatment of African nations; the rationale was that they were a less evolved part of the species, so why shouldn't the more highly evolved people do what they wanted?  Shocking to hear now, but that was an issue with how people of the time interpreted Darwin's theory - it doesn't make Darwinism intrinsically evil.
 
Regarding your last point, I think i've answered that.  People will use anything.  The catholic church, for example, have over the centuries invented a whole doctrine not found anywhere in the bible.  People have blindly followed it.  The issue is people.  Not scripture, or religion.


You've altered your position because of points I've made, yet failed to explicitly acknowledge this as a change in your position. I find that telling, and since I hold you in high regard as a poster - I am disappoint.

So we agree that innocent people are vulnerable to manipulation when they accept religious dogma. And yet you think it not a dangerous idea to have large religious institutions regard a 2,000 page book as the literal "Word of God" -- with not a shred of evidence of it being so. You support your thinking by pointing out that some folks used Darwin's theory to wrongly justify slavery. In my view your example refutes your point -- i.e. if people tend to mis-interpret even scientific information, imagine the damage possible when they accept, without one shred of evidence, that a 2,000-page document is in fact the literal "Word of God" -- and if it's the Word of God, it doesn't even have to make sense or be put to any ethical or moral test.
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#49 Bubba_Sparks

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:54 AM

You've altered your position because of points I've made, yet failed to explicitly acknowledge this as a change in your position. I find that telling, and since I hold you in high regard as a poster - I am disappoint.

So we agree that innocent people are vulnerable to manipulation when they accept religious dogma. And yet you think it not a dangerous idea to have large religious institutions regard a 2,000 page book as the literal "Word of God" -- with not a shred of evidence of it being so. You support your thinking by pointing out that some folks used Darwin's theory to wrongly justify slavery. In my view your example refutes your point -- i.e. if people tend to mis-interpret even scientific information, imagine the damage possible when they accept, without one shred of evidence, that a 2,000-page document is in fact the literal "Word of God" -- and if it's the Word of God, it doesn't even have to make sense or be put to any ethical or moral test.

Not sure where i've altered my position?  My position is unchanged; when evil people do evil things, it's because they are evil and will use whatever necessary to justify that.  It might be a religious book, it might be a constitution, it might be tradition, but it's the people fundamentally that are the issue.

 

You've also pointed out that people also do misguided things because they are misguided, but i put that in a completely different category.  Misguided does not equal evil in my book.  If that's the "position" you're referring to, not sure it's a change, more an additional perspective i had not acknowledged previously.  

 

Your final paragraph is logically compelling, except it has one fundamental flaw.  There is highly compelling evidence for the authenticity of scripture.  Once that premise is removed, the argument falls apart.  What is very dangerous is where people blindly do things "because the bible says so" without understanding what it says, the context, the relevance etc. etc.  I still maintain that it's people who are the issue.  If we take your argument to a logical conclusion, we should ban any definitive perspective, ruling or moral law because innocent people are vulnerable to manipulation.  


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#50 LennyTheBat

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:50 AM

Not sure where i've altered my position?  My position is unchanged; when evil people do evil things, it's because they are evil and will use whatever necessary to justify that.  It might be a religious book, it might be a constitution, it might be tradition, but it's the people fundamentally that are the issue.
 
You've also pointed out that people also do misguided things because they are misguided, but i put that in a completely different category.  Misguided does not equal evil in my book.  If that's the "position" you're referring to, not sure it's a change, more an additional perspective i had not acknowledged previously.  
 
Your final paragraph is logically compelling, except it has one fundamental flaw.  There is highly compelling evidence for the authenticity of scripture.  Once that premise is removed, the argument falls apart.  What is very dangerous is where people blindly do things "because the bible says so" without understanding what it says, the context, the relevance etc. etc.  I still maintain that it's people who are the issue.  If we take your argument to a logical conclusion, we should ban any definitive perspective, ruling or moral law because innocent people are vulnerable to manipulation.


I was referring to you expanding your position to include the misguided. It is arguable that I may have taken your original statement out of context since it was in response to a TSU post.

Onward...I agree that people are an issue, but that it's more complex than that and so not the only issue. I think I've covered why I think this in my previous post.

On to your bombshell -- that "highly compelling evidence for the authenticity of scripture". I assume by"authenticity" you mean it is the genuine literal Word of God, so I'm going to preface my next question with Carl Sagan's thought that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". So, what is the evidence that the Bible is the authentic and literal Word of God?