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The Last Jedi discussion (Warning:Spoilers)

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Okay, so I haven't seen the film again since Friday, but these things kind of percolate through my brain.  I still fundamentally enjoyed the film.  I'm also very happy to accept that one man's poison is another's treasure, so I'm not trying to convince anyone they're wrong, but here are my goods and bads.

 

The Good

 

  • Kylo's development.  They've managed to build complexity to the character and keep us guessing a little bit.  The interaction with Rey was quite compelling and they managed to avoid being too cringey, which was no mean feat.
  • Luke's death.  Sad to see him die of course, but to die whilst trolling the most powerful guy in the galaxy and saving the last remnants of the rebellion in the process is pretty awesome.  I don't care that he was sat on a rock whilst doing it; the consequences and impact of his death were way better than any other notable death in the series
  • Leia surviving.  Okay, the way it was shot was somewhat cheesy, but given that Fisher's dead, I was genuinely delighted that Leia lived to fight another day
  • Unpredictability.  Maybe I'm just a bit thick, but they managed to several times lure me into thinking they were going down the stock, predictable route and then throwing in a curve ball.  Kept me guessing right until the end.
  • The platform.  They can go anywhere they like now.  The rebellion was nearly crushed, the last hope (Rey) nearly killed....but they all survived.  Who knows what Episode IX has in store?

 

The bad

 

  • The Luke being dis-illusioned storyline.  Felt very lazy.  He's disillusioned because one of his students went bad.  Is that it?  Was hoping for something a bit deeper.
  • Finn/Poe.  I still don't really care about them very much.  I guess they're meant to be up there with Han/Lando but they're still not in the same league
  • Flitting between plausible and implausible.  It's sci-fi....I don't really mind things being a bit fanastic.  If you think too deeply, there are huge flaws throughout all 8 films so far regarding what can be done with the force, use of light sabers etc. etc. So I'm more than happy to suspend belief....consequently having a fairly major plot-line based on running out of petrol felt a bit.....naff.

 

Overall, still good stuff and I think they've paid suitable respect to the originals so far.

It's not just that his student went bad, but he doesn't even know for sure that he would have turned, but he almost murdered him and in doing so created the next Vader.

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Wait, since Star Wars is essentially a story about Luke Skywalker shouldn't TLJ be the last star wars film?

Except for the fact that four of the eight films had nothing to do with him and a fifth one has him in fifteen seconds of the film.

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Some day, students will write case studies and thesis papers on the devisiveness of this movie. I understand why critics liked it. Easily the best graphics of the series and some of the best cinematography like the one take tracking shot in the casino from one end to ther other was great. I also get why people dont like this movie. But i cant figure out the Stans that like this movie. If youre real Stan, how does it not read like fan fiction when they ruined Luke. The guy that went to his presumed own certain death at the end of RotJ because he thought he could save his father, is now attempting to murder his own nephew in his sleep at the first sign of him being pulled to the dark side. Then hiding out from his mistakes, abandoning his family, friends, and the rebellion. And then when he finally does decide to do something, he still gives Leia and the Rebellion a hard meh and just sends a fecking hologram to troll Kylo, further pushing Kylo into the dark. "See you around kiddo" trolling Kylo is now the stupidest quote in the entire series for me. What he did was the equivalent of just sending Kylo a DM titled "I'm sorry Kylo" and then when Kylo clciks the link it's a Rick Roll troll face video. Lukes like, hey Rey I know o only showed you couple things on the island, none of them actually even saber skills at any point and i see youre dealing with your own pull to the dark but you got this right fam?

 

And apparently when Disney makes chitty decisions its "hilarious trolling" but when George does it, its just chitty? I look forward to future thesis papers on the gray area of of fans who are such Stans they love it but are also willing to overlook everything it ruined and undone. Or maybe they just own stock in Disney like i presume 12er does.

Luke didn't murder his nephew, but he did consider it and it's because of the Jedi's hubris about light and dark that he considered it all and that is why he lost faith in the Jedi and himself. How is that hard to understand? 

 

As for sending the trollogram, he had no other option. Rey had already left with the Falcon by the time he had decided to help and my guess is that his X-wing is non-functioning after being at the bottom of the ocean for presumably years. I would imagine he put it there so that he could never change his mind and leave the Island. I think it's implied that he knew he would die using that technique to distract Kylo, but it was his only choice and he sacrificed himself to save Leia and the resistance. When Kylo sees Rey for the first time in the flim he even says something about how the power to project herself like that would kill her. I don't think most people even knew what the hell he was talking about when he said it, but it was foreshadowing the end.

 

Self sacrificing himself and besting an enemy with the least amount of force possible is actually a very Jedi thing to do. 

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I'll admit...many things to consider. I'll have to see it one more time just to close out things for myself.

 

A stranger, coming out of the last showing, actually told me (after his second viewing) that I'd probably need to see it twice just to resolve internal issues.

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Okay. I'll give it a 7 out of 10.

 

Problems I had with the film

 

•Milking of the sea monster

•Couple of Luke's lines and actions seemed out of character

•Kid Jedi at the end (feels like they are going to keep making star wars movies til the cow runs dry)

•Leia flying through space was different, can't tell if I liked or hated it

•No background story on Snoke. The way he died did not bother me as it did others

•If true, Rey's parents were nobodies. Seems with how powerful she is with the force, she'd have a strong bloodline

 

Things I liked

 

•Didn't have a problem with Poe's comedic relief. That's the character he is, got a glimpse of that in TFA

•Luke sacrificing himself seemed to be the Jedi thing to do

•Left me wanting to see what happens in the next film

 

I was entertained, wasn't bored or did I ever feel parts dragged on. Don't wait til after the credits, nothing to see.

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Okay. I'll give it a 7 out of 10.

 

Problems I had with the film

 

•Milking of the sea monster

•Couple of Luke's lines and actions seemed out of character

•Kid Jedi at the end (feels like they are going to keep making star wars movies til the cow runs dry)

•Leia flying through space was different, can't tell if I liked or hated it

•No background story on Snoke. The way he died did not bother me as it did others

•If true, Rey's parents were nobodies. Seems with how powerful she is with the force, she'd have a strong bloodline

 

Things I liked

 

•Didn't have a problem with Poe's comedic relief. That's the character he is, got a glimpse of that in TFA

•Luke sacrificing himself seemed to be the Jedi thing to do

•Left me wanting to see what happens in the next film

 

I was entertained, wasn't bored or did I ever feel parts dragged on. Don't wait til after the credits, nothing to see.

 

 

 

Good post bro...the milking of the sea monster was prob the most cringeworthy star wars scene I have ever seen...prob worse than any of the love scenes in AOTC, jar jar etc...

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Luke didn't murder his nephew, but he did consider it and it's because of the Jedi's hubris about light and dark that he considered it all and that is why he lost faith in the Jedi and himself. How is that hard to understand?

 

As for sending the trollogram, he had no other option. Rey had already left with the Falcon by the time he had decided to help and my guess is that his X-wing is non-functioning after being at the bottom of the ocean for presumably years. I would imagine he put it there so that he could never change his mind and leave the Island. I think it's implied that he knew he would die using that technique to distract Kylo, but it was his only choice and he sacrificed himself to save Leia and the resistance. When Kylo sees Rey for the first time in the flim he even says something about how the power to project herself like that would kill her. I don't think most people even knew what the hell he was talking about when he said it, but it was foreshadowing the end.

 

Self sacrificing himself and besting an enemy with the least amount of force possible is actually a very Jedi thing to do. 

 

How is it hard to understand that one of the purest characters in the series, who was willing to self sacrifice to save his father and had first hand experience with the pull of the dark side, would attempt to murder his own nephew at the first trace of the dark side? Why not just put a fecking NWO shirt on Yoda and give him a heel turn as well. Also, by Disney/Rian's logic, couldn't Luke presumably just Superman through space to help the Resistance now? I've stated in here that I thought Luke's death was perfect and I'm not even mad about the hologram, but Luke trolling Kylo from beginning to end and Leia literally skywalking is Indiana Jones atom bombed fridge levels of bad. 

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Good post bro...the milking of the sea monster was prob the most cringeworthy star wars scene I have ever seen...prob worse than any of the love scenes in AOTC, jar jar etc...

I mean...why even include this scene? Who signed off on this?

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How is it hard to understand that one of the purest characters in the series, who was willing to self sacrifice to save his father and had first hand experience with the pull of the dark side, would attempt to murder his own nephew at the first trace of the dark side? Why not just put a fecking NWO shirt on Yoda and give him a heel turn as well. Also, by Disney/Rian's logic, couldn't Luke presumably just Superman through space to help the Resistance now? I've stated in here that I thought Luke's death was perfect and I'm not even mad about the hologram, but Luke trolling Kylo from beginning to end and Leia literally skywalking is Indiana Jones atom bombed fridge levels of bad. 

He didn't try to murder him at first trace. We got two sides of the same story, from Kylo and Luke and they were both very different. We don't know which one was closer to the truth, but Luke says he's been seeing the signs for a long time. 

 

The way I saw it, it was a callback to Anakin's turn to the dark side. By trying to save Padme, Anakin ends up killing her. By trying to prevent the next Darth Vader, Luke creates the next Darth Vader. Fear is a path to the dark side, and by allowing their fear to influence their actions they both ended up causing the very thing they were trying to prevent. 

 

Luke is not space jesus. He was never a perfect character and his own brush with the dark side in ROTJ is the reason this is a plausible scenario IMO. 

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He didn't try to murder him at first trace. We got two sides of the same story, from Kylo and Luke and they were both very different. We don't know which one was closer to the truth, but Luke says he's been seeing the signs for a long time. 

 

The way I saw it, it was a callback to Anakin's turn to the dark side. By trying to save Padme, Anakin ends up killing her. By trying to prevent the next Darth Vader, Luke creates the next Darth Vader. Fear is a path to the dark side, and by allowing their fear to influence their actions they both ended up causing the very thing they were trying to prevent. 

 

Luke is not space jesus. He was never a perfect character and his own brush with the dark side in ROTJ is the reason this is a plausible scenario IMO.

 

This is deep...

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I will see it again. It seems like it's a must to take everything in.

I agree. I've never seen a movie in the theatre more than once, and this might be the first time I do. I was actually looking for a pirated stream right after I got home because I want to rewatch it to take everything in.

 

I didn't find one, though.

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Obviously Luke isnt space Jesus, that would be Leia.

I think we can all agree that was retarded. It would have been a great scene if she just died. Someone in the comments of a trailer predicted that scene perfectly, but instead of surviving, Leia's death was one of the things that helped turn Kylo on Snoke.

 

They shouldn't have done the fake out. It was too much.

Edited by 12er™
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He didn't try to murder him at first trace. We got two sides of the same story, from Kylo and Luke and they were both very different. We don't know which one was closer to the truth, but Luke says he's been seeing the signs for a long time.

 

The way I saw it, it was a callback to Anakin's turn to the dark side. By trying to save Padme, Anakin ends up killing her. By trying to prevent the next Darth Vader, Luke creates the next Darth Vader. Fear is a path to the dark side, and by allowing their fear to influence their actions they both ended up causing the very thing they were trying to prevent.

 

Luke is not space jesus. He was never a perfect character and his own brush with the dark side in ROTJ is the reason this is a plausible scenario IMO.

I did appreciate some of the more subtle call backs. Just not the execution. Luke openly said he went to kill Kylo in his version and Mark himself even said they butchered his character. Going to give it a second viewing as TFA benefited from a rewatch but i would literally be adding more salt to the wounds at the moment. Tew soon. Edited by TUF
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I did appreciate some of the more subtle call backs. Just not the execution. Luke openly said he went to kill Kylo in his version and Mark himself even said they butchered his character. Going to give it a second viewing as TFA benefited from a rewatch but i would literally be adding more salt to the wounds at the moment. Tew soon.

I mean, you should have known it was something like that. My prediction was that Luke accidentally killed his students trying to master some force power he couldn't control. I knew it wasn't going to be simply "Kylo became bad" because it wouldn't make any sense for Luke to go into exile if he wasn't feeling guilty about what happened. 

 

I'm happy with that explanation. It seems plausible to me. I'm more mad that they didn't have the balls to kill Leia, especially after Carrie Fisher died. They could have saved themselves the trouble of explaining why she isn't around in 9 by killing her right then and there and cut out of the worst part of the movie at the same time. 

 

Proton torpedoes seems like a great way to delicately write her out of the story, and it would have really added weight to the desperation of the situation if basically all of the resistances top leadership died at the same time.

Edited by 12er™
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I did appreciate some of the more subtle call backs. Just not the execution. Luke openly said he went to kill Kylo in his version and Mark himself even said they butchered his character. Going to give it a second viewing as TFA benefited from a rewatch but i would literally be adding more salt to the wounds at the moment. Tew soon.

I thought in his version Luke said that for a split second he wanted to kill Kylo, but the moment passed?  That was the moment that Kylo woke up though, and just saw Luke standing over him with a light-saber.

 

I don't think it was implausible, but i do think it was a touch lazy.  The master blaming himself for the failure of his students is a fairly well trod path.  It didn't have much bearing on my enjoyment of the film though.

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I mean, you should have known it was something like that. My prediction was that Luke accidentally killed his students trying to master some force power he couldn't control. I knew it wasn't going to be simply "Kylo became bad" because it wouldn't make any sense for Luke to go into exile if he wasn't feeling guilty about what happened.

 

I'm happy with that explanation. It seems plausible to me. I'm more mad that they didn't have the balls to kill Leia, especially after Carrie Fisher died. They could have saved themselves the trouble of explaining why she isn't around in 9 by killing her right then and there and cut out of the worst part of the movie at the same time.

 

Proton torpedoes seems like a great way to delicately write her out of the story, and it would have really added weight to the desperation of the situation if basically all of the resistances top leadership died at the same time.

The fact that they wrote in a Randy SJW just to die one of the cooler deaths in the series with that light speed suicide bombing when the honor should have gone to Ackbar or even Leia is a head scratcher. I honestly dont know what i want from episode 9. I thought TLJ would be an Order 66 purge of all the new characters and instead, what we got was a pointless Asian character who's only meaningful action was to cuck Finn of a great story arc. Curious where people think rhe story will go now that theyve essentially wrapped up the OT parallel arc.

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I'm happy with that explanation. It seems plausible to me. I'm more mad that they didn't have the balls to kill Leia, especially after Carrie Fisher died. They could have saved themselves the trouble of explaining why she isn't around in 9 by killing her right then and there and cut out of the worst part of the movie at the same time. 

Leia not dying was one of the highlights for me (even if the manner was cheesy).  It would have seemed almost grotesque to kill her off early because she'd died irl.

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lol what a GOAT. New AV incoming

 

He is a good actor, his francis character is real funny

 

Edited by PunchBag
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Leia not dying was one of the highlights for me (even if the manner was cheesy).  It would have seemed almost grotesque to kill her off early because she'd died irl.

Should have killed her or not done that scene at all. Killing her would have served the story better imo.

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I havent read about it since production. Cant remember when she died. Was she suppose to die in that scene and they did some rewrite CGI trickery to give her a better send off?

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I havent read about it since production. Cant remember when she died. Was she suppose to die in that scene and they did some rewrite CGI trickery to give her a better send off?

No, she was meant to survive and the 9th film was going to be a huge film for her.  TFA was Han's film, TLJ was Luke's, the 9th one would have been hers.

Also, the director said that they didn't change any of her scenes after she died irl.

Edited by Bubba_Sparks
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I agree. I've never seen a movie in the theatre more than once, and this might be the first time I do. I was actually looking for a pirated stream right after I got home because I want to rewatch it to take everything in.

 

I didn't find one, though.

Should have just stayed in the theater and jumped into another showing.

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More questions bros...

 

Why did the ships slow down when they ran out of fuel? lol...

 

Why did a untrained black stormtrooper just randomly beat up a special ops stormtrooper

 

Why didnt vice admiral holdo(lol name) just tell poe the plan?

 

Why the asian nobody heroine for diversity/inclusiveness, kiss a black guy?

 

ld.png

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More questions bros...

 

Why did the ships slow down when they ran out of fuel? lol...

 

Why did a untrained black stormtrooper just randomly beat up a special ops stormtrooper

 

Why didnt vice admiral holdo(lol name) just tell poe the plan?

 

Why the asian nobody heroine for diversity/inclusiveness, kiss a black guy?

 

ld.png

 

https://www.change.o...-official-canon

 

How many of them are you?

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I thought the movie was great.

 

Was it perfect? No. Even the best Star Wars? No.

 

But their was some things I loved.

 

1. Luke. I know its split opinions but I really enjoyed Hamill's latest portrayal of Luke. Loved the story of how both he and Kylo had their version of what happened between them and it turned out somewhere in the middle of both. I also like how Luke isn't your traditional jedi master he was jaded and didn't trust the force. The scene between him and Yoda was great it had the same feeling as the original. His final fight with Kylo Ren was also handled very well. Im also biased as **** for this as Hamill is one of the best Joker's ever and Yoda is my favourite Star Wars character.

 

2. Poe. Excluding those couple scenes with the purple haired lady I thought Poe had maybe the best of the four arcs they were telling throughout the story. Every pilot scene he had was awesome. Just his whole tone and humour felt spot on.

 

3. The Funny's. Whether it was BB8, Chewbacca, the Porg's, that creepy little thing that thought BB8 was a slot machine, those weird lizard caretaker things and Finn the funny moments really landed for me was laughing throughout the film.  

 

 

A couple things that really annoyed me though.

 

1. Snoke. They built this guy up the entire of the last movie for him to get the worst death in star wars I have seen. For how little we actually seen him do he has to go down as the worst Sith character in the Star Wars movies for me. This is by far my biggest gripe with the movie, I mean I was interested to see Snoke's character get fleshed out in this but guess that's out the window.

 

2. Leia Going Superman. I think this just annoyed me because ive never seen something like this in Star Wars before and it just didn't land with me felt like them leaning a bit to much towards a Marvel film.

 

3. Rey's parents. Fair play to Star Wars here they flipped their usual script and instead of making Rey's parents a notable character from the series they were just **** parents who sold her off. I get some people might like a change but it took away all the mystery of her past and just made her character a lot less interesting I think.

 

 

What I found really weird is that they didn't kill her off? Are they going to do a full cgi render for the next one

 

I also liked the movie a few comments I want to make about your bad bits tho

 

1. in reference to snoke's death having re-watched TLJ and the force awakens I'm not sure he is dead I have two reasons for this

 

 a.) in TLJ me and my friend both thought snoke looked younger than in the hologram in episode 7 just like luke did in his force projection. therefore I think its not a massive stretch to assume snoke did similar yet to a much greater degree due to his massive power 

b.) this one is more of a stretch but if we assume snoke is darth plaguis then we can assume that he actually did master death and therefore he has found a way of moving his consciences from one body to another when one is too damaged to continue (similar to horcruxes)

 

2.) from the comics we know that luke trained leia in the ways of the jedi therefore for her to be able to force pull herself also seems possible

 

3.) simply I think he was lying as luke repeated everything you just said is wrong#

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I also liked the movie a few comments I want to make about your bad bits tho

 

1. in reference to snoke's death having re-watched TLJ and the force awakens I'm not sure he is dead I have two reasons for this

 

 a.) in TLJ me and my friend both thought snoke looked younger than in the hologram in episode 7 just like luke did in his force projection. therefore I think its not a massive stretch to assume snoke did similar yet to a much greater degree due to his massive power 

b.) this one is more of a stretch but if we assume snoke is darth plaguis then we can assume that he actually did master death and therefore he has found a way of moving his consciences from one body to another when one is too damaged to continue (similar to horcruxes)

 

2.) from the comics we know that luke trained leia in the ways of the jedi therefore for her to be able to force pull herself also seems possible

 

3.) simply I think he was lying as luke repeated everything you just said is wrong#

 

 

gu0m2.jpg

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10,000 signatures in 2 days

Shockingly low considering there are millions upon millions of idiots on this planet.

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I also liked the movie a few comments I want to make about your bad bits tho

 

1. in reference to snoke's death having re-watched TLJ and the force awakens I'm not sure he is dead I have two reasons for this

 

 a.) in TLJ me and my friend both thought snoke looked younger than in the hologram in episode 7 just like luke did in his force projection. therefore I think its not a massive stretch to assume snoke did similar yet to a much greater degree due to his massive power 

b.) this one is more of a stretch but if we assume snoke is darth plaguis then we can assume that he actually did master death and therefore he has found a way of moving his consciences from one body to another when one is too damaged to continue (similar to horcruxes)

 

2.) from the comics we know that luke trained leia in the ways of the jedi therefore for her to be able to force pull herself also seems possible

 

3.) simply I think he was lying as luke repeated everything you just said is wrong#

 

1 mouse credit has been deposited to your account. 

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Also, after seeing TLJ, I've come to realize that all this time Chewie was the pilot and everyone else his co-pilot. GOATbacca too stronk.

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"Driving her to Jedi practice" got me. Chewie and R2 have seen some chit. 

I've already stated that GOATbacca is the true hero of the entire saga. He saves the day in literally every film he's in, this one included. Glad to see him finally fly the Falcon and do it better than everyone else.

 

In fact, the entire film was about failure. Everyone failed at one point or another, except GOATbacca. He came in and un-****ed everything at the end.

Edited by 12er™
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I've already stated that GOATbacca is the true hero of the entire saga. He saves the day in literally every film he's in, this one included. Glad to see him finally fly the Falcon and do it better than everyone else.

 

In fact, the entire film was about failure. Everyone failed at one point or another, except GOATbacca. He came in and un-**** everything at the end.

Wait...did Poe fail?

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