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#51 sobercuban

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:28 AM

less than 5k, so I can ride my bike 10-15 mins, go with public transportation in 20, jog in 30, or walk in an hour, a car would never come into question.

 

If I had a longer commute I would much rather seat in a train and read or do something else than drive, a car is just for the lazy people that cannot walk to the nearest public transportation stop (in countries where there is a good public transportation system, hence the truly developed countries)

 

I know that if I lived in the US unless I lived around 5k from work I would need a car. When I lived in texas, I tried to survive for the first couple of months on walking and public transportation and it was challenging, then I got my friends to drive me around and life did go a lot easier :P

 

For years I lived about 50km from work.  Even if I were to take a bus/train all the way to the little town I was living in I'd still probably have to walk 3-4km to get to my house because there's a zero percent chance there would be a bus that would go remotely close to where the house was located.  I can't imagine what my transit times would've been either.

 

Oh and forget riding a bike anywhere around here.  You will get run the **** over because there are almost no bike lanes anywhere and drivers aren't expecting cyclists.  

 

Something else that complicates things is businesses are also located far apart.  If you tried to take public transportation to run errands it's going to take you all day, everything is just too spread out.  Also the US has so many rural areas, I can't see that it would be cost effective to have mass transit serve those people.  


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#52 amunera

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:31 AM

For years I lived about 50km from work.  Even if I were to take a bus/train all the way to the little town I was living in I'd still probably have to walk 3-4km to get to my house because there's a zero percent chance there would be a bus that would go remotely close to where the house was located.  I can't imagine what my transit times would've been either.

 

Oh and forget riding a bike anywhere around here.  You will get run the **** over because there are almost no bike lanes anywhere and drivers aren't expecting cyclists.  

 

Something else that complicates things is businesses are also located far apart.  If you tried to take public transportation to run errands it's going to take you all day, everything is just too spread out.  Also the US has so many rural areas, I can't see that it would be cost effective to have mass transit serve those people.  

 

yeah the US is kind of screwed, there is a lack of infrastructure for bikes and it is clearly designed for cars, here is a completely different thing, and worst case scenario you travel by train with a foldable bike and problem solved.

 

I have colleagues that travel around 50k daily by train and it is fine, there is even people that I know of that commute 2 hours by train daily as well, crazy stuff. 


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#53 Bubba_Sparks

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:34 AM

For years I lived about 50km from work.  Even if I were to take a bus/train all the way to the little town I was living in I'd still probably have to walk 3-4km to get to my house because there's a zero percent chance there would be a bus that would go remotely close to where the house was located.  I can't imagine what my transit times would've been either.

 

Oh and forget riding a bike anywhere around here.  You will get run the **** over because there are almost no bike lanes anywhere and drivers aren't expecting cyclists.  

 

Something else that complicates things is businesses are also located far apart.  If you tried to take public transportation to run errands it's going to take you all day, everything is just too spread out.  Also the US has so many rural areas, I can't see that it would be cost effective to have mass transit serve those people.  

Why wouldn't a driver-less car that you pay as you use work in this scenario though? 

I assume that the cost of an uber mostly goes to the driver; take them out of the equation and I'll happily pay £5 to travel 10 hassle-free miles to work.


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#54 sobercuban

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:37 AM

yeah the US is kind of screwed, there is a lack of infrastructure for bikes and it is clearly designed for cars, here is a completely different thing, and worst case scenario you travel by train with a foldable bike and problem solved.

 

I have colleagues that travel around 50k daily by train and it is fine, there is even people that I know of that commute 2 hours by train daily as well, crazy stuff. 

Yeah my dad lives in the Washington DC area and commutes 1 hr 45 mins each way (public transport, on the DC roads would probably take much longer as he commutes during rush hour)


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#55 sobercuban

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:39 AM

Why wouldn't a driver-less car that you pay as you use work in this scenario though? 

I assume that the cost of an uber mostly goes to the driver; take them out of the equation and I'll happily pay £5 to travel 10 hassle-free miles to work.

 

When I pay for a car I know that I always have transportation whenever I need it am not reliant on anyone else.  Cars are terrible investments because they depreciate so fast but when you're paying to use someone else's car you have literally nothing to show for your money.  

 

I'm totally biased because I'm a car guy, so.  


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#56 Bubba_Sparks

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:44 AM

When I pay for a car I know that I always have transportation whenever I need it am not reliant on anyone else.  Cars are terrible investments because they depreciate so fast but when you're paying to use someone else's car you have literally nothing to show for your money.  

 

I'm totally biased because I'm a car guy, so.  

Oh I know; I'm a frequent lurker in the official car thread.

 

But if (and it's admittedly a big if), you could type in a postcode and a car turned up to take you where you want to go within 5 minutes, and it was much much cheaper than owning your own, wouldn't you be tempted?

 

Think of the money you could save to tune up your Mustang some more!  I can see people who like cars still having them, but as something fun for the weekend, not an every day use thing.


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#57 sobercuban

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:51 AM

Oh I know; I'm a frequent lurker in the official car thread.

 

But if (and it's admittedly a big if), you could type in a postcode and a car turned up to take you where you want to go within 5 minutes, and it was much much cheaper than owning your own, wouldn't you be tempted?

 

Think of the money you could save to tune up your Mustang some more!  I can see people who like cars still having them, but as something fun for the weekend, not an every day use thing.

Yeah this is a good point.  I'm trying to get to the point where my Mustang isn't a daily driver any more, hoping I can pull it off before I transfer to the 4-year university.  


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#58 Yerbo

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:41 AM

I h8 driving so i'm looking forward to it. It doesn't scare me in the slightest. The tech is already better than most drivers anyway and will only get better. I also have this take that when i die i die and i'm not afraid of that at all. 

 

That being said there should be a manual override in case of circumstantial conditions or glitches where i may be needed. 

To be effective a manual override would require you to basically be paying attention at all times no? Chit happens pretty fast at highway speeds and in high volume traffic. If you have to always be paying attention so you can be in position to take over if the car can't handle things then basically you are still driving when you should be having a double rum 'n coke (like I am now!) and/or smoking a fatty!


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#59 StompGrind

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:42 AM

When I pay for a car I know that I always have transportation whenever I need it am not reliant on anyone else.  Cars are terrible investments because they depreciate so fast but when you're paying to use someone else's car you have literally nothing to show for your money.  

 

I'm totally biased because I'm a car guy, so.  

We pay for plenty of things that we have nothing to show for it but it's maybe cheaper in the long run and or gets the job done, maybe free's you up financially or is just a lot more convenient for your specific needs.  

 

For example my brother lived in Chicago for 10 yrs and got rid of his car after the first yr or so. He's lived in Manhattan the last ten or so. It just doesn't make sense to him to own a car or buy a home.  


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#60 Yerbo

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:44 AM

I finally bought a truck with an automatic transmission after more than 30 years of driving, and I now feel stupid for waiting so long!

Yeah, living in France almost everyone still drives stick here. But that is slowly changing. When I was younger it put a lot more fun into driving, but eventually it was like, meh, who needs it.



#61 Yerbo

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:48 AM

lets all focus on electric cars first. The fact that they've been invented and proven but are not being used by everyone is insanity

Number of charging stations is still an issue as far as longer distance driving goes I think. For close to home driving it's fine if you have a house and your own charging station. But again, charging at public stations has to suck, at least until charging gets much faster.



#62 StompGrind

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:48 AM

To be effective a manual override would require you to basically be paying attention at all times no? Chit happens pretty fast at highway speeds and in high volume traffic. If you have to always be paying attention so you can be in position to take over if the car can't handle things then basically you are still driving when you should be having a double rum 'n coke (like I am now!) and/or smoking a fatty!

That's true but there is always that tricky turn or stretch of back road that you might not trust. Good to have a back up. 

 

I think in most situations it'll be fine but a just in case card is a nice card to have to play if you need it. 

 

It's also good as an alternate option for those that just like to drive. 


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#63 Yerbo

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:49 AM

Because the super affordable all-electrics are ugly as ****.  

 

If Teslas were affordable I'd buy one for sure.  But even the Model 3 is kinda steep for most people

Aren't all cars ugly these days? Except for a few high end models at least. Damn life was good when you had a choice of numerous great looking cars with V8s that were built like tanks! hah


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#64 Yerbo

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:56 AM

Why wouldn't a driver-less car that you pay as you use work in this scenario though? 

I assume that the cost of an uber mostly goes to the driver; take them out of the equation and I'll happily pay £5 to travel 10 hassle-free miles to work.

Pay as you use cars already exist, they are called taxis hah. And my experience with taxis is that they take forever to arrive because there aren't enough of them making them unreliable for anything important/time-sensitive. The solution would be many many more of these pay as you use cars. But taxis are already expensive and whoever is offering this service would need WAY more cars than are currently avaiable to users in need. I would think that would raise prices even higher...though of course you wouldn't have to pay drivers....so much to think about hmmmm. Then there is the disruption to the economy in terms of all those people currently driving for a living losing their jobs....



#65 Yerbo

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:02 AM

That's true but there is always that tricky turn or stretch of back road that you might not trust. Good to have a back up. 

 

I think in most situations it'll be fine but a just in case card is a nice card to have to play if you need it. 

 

It's also good as an alternate option for those that just like to drive. 

Yeah for predictable issues it would work, but to avoid unforeseen accidents I think it would be kind of useless. And yeah, if people wanna drive it's good too, but I get the feeling the end result of all this is going to be getting human drivers off the road completely.

 

That great Canadian band RUSH sang about a future where driving was illegal....great song (Red Barchetta)

 


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#66 sobercuban

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 11:07 AM

We pay for plenty of things that we have nothing to show for it but it's maybe cheaper in the long run and or gets the job done, maybe free's you up financially or is just a lot more convenient for your specific needs.  

 

For example my brother lived in Chicago for 10 yrs and got rid of his car after the first yr or so. He's lived in Manhattan the last ten or so. It just doesn't make sense to him to own a car or buy a home.  

I get that, but it doesn't make it a good thing.  Paying rent each month keeps a roof over our heads but when you leave the house you have nothing to show for it.  Sure you could "save" a little money because you don't have to worry about upkeep when things break, you won't have to worry about property tax, etc.  But I think we can all agree that OWNING a home is much better than renting one.  You take on debt to start but a significant portion of your mortgage payment builds equity each month.  

 

I get that a house and a car are two completely different things because rarely do cars become more valuable with the passage of time.  But I still have something physical that I can look at and say "that is mine!". 

 

I don't like the idea of being reliant on other people or some service to get me somewhere.  People are unreliable, services are unreliable.  In an emergency situation I don't want to have to wait around for a car to show up.  

 

Owning property also gives you something to sell if times get tough or something to pass along to kids, etc.  I know that if our money situation gets bad I can sell my Mustang for about $8000 just because of what type of Mustang it is (which is pretty good for a 28 year old car) and just carpool with my wife.  I am lucky in that my specific kind of car is becoming more valuable.

 

You might save a considerable amount of money using a service like that but that doesn't mean you're actually going to save any money.  Most people will just spend whatever money they saved on other crap and not bank any of it.  

 

I wrote this while taking a break on a brutal calc problem so I'm not sure if it makes any sense but w/e


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#67 StompGrind

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 12:02 PM

I get that, but it doesn't make it a good thing.  Paying rent each month keeps a roof over our heads but when you leave the house you have nothing to show for it.  Sure you could "save" a little money because you don't have to worry about upkeep when things break, you won't have to worry about property tax, etc.  But I think we can all agree that OWNING a home is much better than renting one.  You take on debt to start but a significant portion of your mortgage payment builds equity each month.  

 

I get that a house and a car are two completely different things because rarely do cars become more valuable with the passage of time.  But I still have something physical that I can look at and say "that is mine!". 

 

I don't like the idea of being reliant on other people or some service to get me somewhere.  People are unreliable, services are unreliable.  In an emergency situation I don't want to have to wait around for a car to show up.  

 

Owning property also gives you something to sell if times get tough or something to pass along to kids, etc.  I know that if our money situation gets bad I can sell my Mustang for about $8000 just because of what type of Mustang it is (which is pretty good for a 28 year old car) and just carpool with my wife.  I am lucky in that my specific kind of car is becoming more valuable.

 

You might save a considerable amount of money using a service like that but that doesn't mean you're actually going to save any money.  Most people will just spend whatever money they saved on other crap and not bank any of it.  

 

I wrote this while taking a break on a brutal calc problem so I'm not sure if it makes any sense but w/e

Makes sense and i don't disagree with you just saying different strokes for different folks. 

 

In my brother's case he lives in Manhattan and he makes good money but owning property there is a bit out of his reach. He thought about getting some property upstate and building something there but then his commute would be a hassle and he wouldn't wanna have that money tied down either.  

 

Rent is high in Manhattan so he's not exactly saving money renting but he'd rather be a little more free to make moves if need be rather than be locked down to anything. Same thing with a car but he actually does save money on that and it's less of a headache for his needs since everything is within arms reach and transportation there is quite reliable. For emergency situations he doesn't really put himself in risky situations and saves money so the off chance the unthinkable happens he has this very fearless it is what it is i'll deal with it if something comes up approach. 


 

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#68 Bubba_Sparks

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 02:59 PM

Pay as you use cars already exist, they are called taxis hah. And my experience with taxis is that they take forever to arrive because there aren't enough of them making them unreliable for anything important/time-sensitive. The solution would be many many more of these pay as you use cars. But taxis are already expensive and whoever is offering this service would need WAY more cars than are currently avaiable to users in need. I would think that would raise prices even higher...though of course you wouldn't have to pay drivers....so much to think about hmmmm. Then there is the disruption to the economy in terms of all those people currently driving for a living losing their jobs....


Taxis are a good starting point. Then imagine that instead of 1 in every 100 (?) people on the road traveling this way it's 99 in every 100. Massively increasing the scale should lead to huge efficiencies. Taking out the driver saves most of the cost.

As for the last point, that is always an argument against progress. Drivers would have to re-train, just like anyone else working in an obsolete industry.

#69 cashfl0w

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:01 PM

Man, have any of you actually been inside a taxi in a big city?

There really isn't a more dangerous way to travel on the planet. lol
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#70 Bubba_Sparks

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:15 PM

Man, have any of you actually been inside a taxi in a big city?

There really isn't a more dangerous way to travel on the planet. lol


There are levels mate...I thought London taxi drivers were bad until I went to Budapest. They're basically in a permanent state of road rage.
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#71 cashfl0w

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:24 PM

There are levels mate...I thought London taxi drivers were bad until I went to Budapest. They're basically in a permanent state of road rage.

I have absolutely felt like I was on a roller coaster in taxis in Chicago. Holding on for dear life. lol

The last thing I want is that to be my only method of travel.
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#72 juice64011

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:26 PM

I had a taxi driver hit 90 mph on a 45 mph street because he was trying to get as much money as possible from the bar crowd. No thanks
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#73 Bubba_Sparks

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:32 PM

I have absolutely felt like I was on a roller coaster in taxis in Chicago. Holding on for dear life. lol

The last thing I want is that to be my only method of travel.


Lol, wait...are you equating driver-less pay as you go cars to taxis? I don't think that's the idea! They should be a billion times safer. Haven't you watched Demolition Man??

#74 juice64011

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:34 PM

Do we get safety foam?
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#75 StompGrind

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:37 PM

Lol you would think on a fight club forum there'd be less pu$$ies here. 

 

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#76 12er™

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:37 PM

I'm convinced from your posts lately that you walked in on your woman getting pounded by two American BBCs.

You don't get that much salt from the sweat of only two BBC's. It had to be an air tight situation.


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#77 Bubba_Sparks

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:51 PM

Do we get safety foam?

Yep. And fake drivers that look like prime Sandra Bullock.
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#78 cashfl0w

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:54 PM

The whole idea of driverless cars sounds great, and America will embrace it until the very first one is hacked, and driven into a brick wall at 120 MPH. Then we'll revolt from the whole idea.


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#79 MoZZez

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:04 PM

The whole idea of driverless cars sounds great, and America will embrace it until the very first one is hacked, and driven into a brick wall at 120 MPH. Then we'll revolt from the whole idea.


Nobody will give a **** when on is hacked and hits a wall. It's when it drives through a parade, or busy intersection, or runs a school bus off the road. Then tides will change when it can be weaponized
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#80 juice64011

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 10:44 AM

Driverless Uber kills pedestrian, company suspends program.

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.3883981
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#81 sobercuban

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 10:46 AM

Driverless Uber kills pedestrian, company suspends program.
http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.3883981


I scouped ya in the SYM thread. Was on my phone couldn't seem to find this stupid thread

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#82 AndyWang

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 10:48 AM

in the future will the car companies run by females be set to be the worst drivers???


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#83 juice64011

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 10:53 AM

I scouped ya in the SYM thread. Was on my phone couldn't seem to find this stupid thread

I will check it out. It sounds like the person wasn't on a crosswalk so not entirely their fault but the technology needs to detect them if its going to be widely adopted.
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#84 skillandpower

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 12:34 PM

There is a limit for everything, for reals tho


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#85 VertFTW

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 12:43 PM

I will check it out. It sounds like the person wasn't on a crosswalk so not entirely their fault but the technology needs to detect them if its going to be widely adopted.

 

hmmm youd think that would be one of the first things they would test for and have programming to detect....will be interesting to see why the car couldnt detect the lady and stop.



#86 StompGrind

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 01:19 PM

So one case so far of someone being killed? Much better record than team human. < I know different set of variables & smaller range in comparison but it isn't an abandon ship moment either. Skynet isn't falling. 

 

Off topic but this reminds me. I can remember when you could buy a used car back in the day and if you took care of it that thing could last a good 10+ yrs with little or no problems. Now you can buy a brand new car and have to take it in for recalls every 3 months. 

 

#Qualitymade ...is a thing of the past. 


 

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#87 VertFTW

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 01:22 PM

So one case so far of someone being killed? Much better record than team human. < I know different set of variables & smaller range in comparison but it isn't an abandon ship moment either. Skynet isn't falling. 

 

Off topic but this reminds me. I can remember when you could buy a used car back in the day and if you took care of it that thing could last a good 10+ yrs with little or no problems. Now you can buy a brand new car and have to take it in for recalls every 3 months. 

 

#Qualitymade ...is a thing of the past. 

 

 

most cars made in japan are pretty reliable.


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#88 sobercuban

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 01:36 PM

I will check it out. It sounds like the person wasn't on a crosswalk so not entirely their fault but the technology needs to detect them if its going to be widely adopted.


There's no source or anything on my post. I typed it like 2 seconds before I walked in to class

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#89 -idyb-

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 01:41 PM

sorry officer my car is not drunk. it was just swerving to avoid that pothole


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#90 StompGrind

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 02:02 PM

most cars made in japan are pretty reliable.

The quality control there is definitely better but things were just made to last back in the day. Better quality materials and mechanical in nature as opposed to a lot of things now being fragile/glitchy software/electronic based and rushed to get out to market to meet demand. 


 

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#91 Jolldan

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 04:00 AM

**** literally everything about this!

 

Only a few steps away from giving the car the ability to make life saving or ending based decisions. I don't fancy getting swerved headfirst in to a tree because a couple of drunken **** holes fall in to the road and the car decides that its more humane to just kill me than to run the three of them over.

 

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Edited by Jolldan, 20 March 2018 - 04:00 AM.

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"All will be well."

 

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#92 StompGrind

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 04:25 AM

**** literally everything about this!

 

Only a few steps away from giving the car the ability to make life saving or ending based decisions. I don't fancy getting swerved headfirst in to a tree because a couple of drunken **** holes fall in to the road and the car decides that its more humane to just kill me than to run the three of them over.

 

ujrknyw.png

Hell skynet is already here with "smart" devices. AI, robotics, automated machine learning, social behavior mapping and eventually a more integrated symbiotic relationship with humanity is our future. 

 

It's inevitable so get used to it. I'm just here to enjoy the ride wherever it takes us. If we dies we dies. lol


 

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#93 cashfl0w

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 04:32 AM

Hell skynet is already here with "smart" devices. AI, robotics, automated machine learning, social behavior mapping and eventually a more integrated symbiotic relationship with humanity is our future.

It's inevitable so get used to it. I'm just here to enjoy the ride wherever it takes us. If we dies we dies. lol

lol no

As far as your previous post about how this is just one crash, and people crash every day, that's horrible logic too. How many driverless cars are out there on the road? The ratio of them crashing is still A LOT higher than people driving. They are by no means safer.
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#94 StompGrind

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 04:36 AM

Well you guys can be all scared of it but it's coming whether you like it or not. 

 

If it isn't already it will be out performing humans in a very short time unless the government pulls the plug because panic culture. 


 

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#95 cashfl0w

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 04:39 AM

It's really not just coming whether we like it or not. lol

The only way this ever gets rolled out in full force is if Congress writes legislation exempting the operators from lawsuits. Otherwise, we're looking at two of weeks of it MAX, and then they'll be sued into destitution.

Look at Uber right now. They're about to come off of a large sum of money to this pedestrian's family.
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#96 StompGrind

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 04:39 AM

You can doubt it all you want but these cars will be Hotz in no time. 

 


 

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#97 Jolldan

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 04:41 AM

Hell skynet is already here with "smart" devices. AI, robotics, automated machine learning, social behavior mapping and eventually a more integrated symbiotic relationship with humanity is our future. 

 

It's inevitable so get used to it. I'm just here to enjoy the ride wherever it takes us. If we dies we dies. lol

 

My phone can record all the sites I visit all and messages I send all it wants lol what it cant currently do is drive me off a cliff because the sat navs on the fritz.

 

 

Well you guys can be all scared of it but it's coming whether you like it or not. 

 

If it isn't already it will be out performing humans in a very short time unless the government pulls the plug because panic culture. 

 

Once it begins I will be retreating to the mountains and getting ready for the upcoming war with the machines.


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"All will be well."

 

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#98 StompGrind

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 04:48 AM

Gentleman's bet this doesn't get shelved and there are at least threef as many automated cars on the road in the next 3 yrs. 

 

We'll see though...

 

Automated cars running an algorithm with sensors and cameras just aren't that scary to me in comparison to AI, robotics, and quantum computers being developed. 


Edited by StompGrind, 20 March 2018 - 04:50 AM.

 

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#99 cashfl0w

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 05:02 AM

I'm not going to bother with a bet, but it won't happen. At best, we'll have something similar to carpool lanes for automated vehicles, and even those will be lined with cement barriers to ensure the other drivers' safety. Those cement barriers will be paid for by taxes levied on the driverless vehicle companies.

A Tesla on autopilot ran straight into a garbage truck or some chit like that recently. There's been a ton of these incidents. GPS isn't perfect just yet, and they've got to become A LOT more secure before they ever get rolled out in large numbers.
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#100 -idyb-

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 06:07 AM

just wait til hackers figure out how to break into someones car electronically and play with their gps and destination and make the car come to a dead stop on a busy freeway or roll it off the side of an embankment into a lake or off a mountainside or something.


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