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David Attenborough tells world leaders "We're Farked"

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9 minutes ago, I_Take_Roids_m8 said:

 

Everything. It makes such a small impact in the grand scheme as humans. The trillions of insects that die and decompose every year and expel gases which are released into the air partially cause harm also. 

 

At least that's what I learned in college m8

The problem is that all is mostly a closed cycle. We breath CO2 that get absorbed by the plants we eat to produce O2, which together with the plants we eat we burn to produce CO2, and so on.

 

The problem is when you tap onto sequestered sources like fossil fuels that are outside that cycle. 

 

And the orders of magnitude and energy density is quite different, think about it, you burn 2000 calories and that gives you enough energy to operate and move and so on (and produce the concomitant amount of CO2), now how many calories do you think a car uses? how many calories do you think a coal power plant produce? are they in the same order of magnitude as what you eat and breathe? 

Edited by amunera

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1 minute ago, amunera said:

The problem is that all is mostly a closed cycle. We breath CO2 that get absorbed by the plants we eat to produce O2, which together with the plants we eat we burn to produce CO2, and so on.

 

The problem is when you tap onto sequestered sources like fossil fuels that are outside that cycle. 

 

And the orders of magnitude and energy density is quite different, think about it, you burn 2000 calories and that gives you enough energy to operate and move and so on (and produce the concomitant amount of CO2), now how many calories do you think a car uses? how many calories do you think a coal power plant produce? are they in the same order of magnitude as what you eat and breathe? 

Theres a lot of wasted calories 

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Over half of my professors, some of them with many many many years under their belt called  climate change wonky and that there have been periods iof extreme cooling and heating going on for millions of years.

If I remember correctly, Europe went through almost a mini-ice age in the 1200's or so for a few years straight. 

It's all a money racket. 

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I won't get into arguments by authority, I could claim the same about my Profs. as well or my own professional career.

 

As I said, think about the orders of magnitude, the CO2 cycle of living creatures, think about basic thermodynamics, basic chemical reactions, don't overcomplicate it and it should be pretty straight forward. As I said, the kinetics get more complicated, I won't discuss it here, and I doubt anyone in here is in capacity to discuss it, myself included.

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I actually think running out of non - renewable stuff will probably nobble us before the effects of climate change do. 

Very hard to get people mobilised on the issue. Historical crying of 'wolf', general scepticism and images designed to tug on our heart strings that don't hit the mark have left us pretty ambivalent. The various 'agreements' are too much based on lag indicators instead of lead and consequently the finger - pointing and blaming was inevitable. 

Frankly, if the issue is as big as is being stated then we're screwed if we expect the various world governments to sort it all out. I think more and more people are taking steps to do their bit and with a bit of luck it might add up to enough. I also think the planet is more resilient than the models suggest.

 

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26 minutes ago, Bubba_Sparks said:

 I also think the planet is more resilient than the models suggest.

 

The planet will get rid of us long before we get rid of it. Think of the Human race as a cancer upon the host, the Earth. If, as some suggest, the Earth is a living organism, i'm guessing she has the power to do away with us long before she reaches critical mass.

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9 minutes ago, TwennyFo said:

The planet will get rid of us long before we get rid of it. Think of the Human race as a cancer upon the host, the Earth. If, as some suggest, the Earth is a living organism, i'm guessing she has the power to do away with us long before she reaches critical mass.

good post bro

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1 hour ago, Bubba_Sparks said:

I actually think running out of non - renewable stuff will probably nobble us before the effects of climate change do. 

Very hard to get people mobilised on the issue. Historical crying of 'wolf', general scepticism and images designed to tug on our heart strings that don't hit the mark have left us pretty ambivalent. The various 'agreements' are too much based on lag indicators instead of lead and consequently the finger - pointing and blaming was inevitable. 

Frankly, if the issue is as big as is being stated then we're screwed if we expect the various world governments to sort it all out. I think more and more people are taking steps to do their bit and with a bit of luck it might add up to enough. I also think the planet is more resilient than the models suggest.

 

we are not close to running out of fossil fuels, just in methane, the proven reserves have steadily increased each year (and if you account for methane hydrates, which I mentioned earlier, and that countries like Japan are trying to extract, we could have methane for decades/centuries). Eventually it will be too expensive to get them out compared to other technologies, so they will eventually slow down as well.

The question is how far will the fossil fuel lobby make the fossil fuel based technologies stick and how far are we from the tipping point (as I mention most phenomena will become self reinforced). A lot of countries still subsidize petrol while taxing solar energy and stuff like that, if they were on an even playing field this discussion would not be even taking place :P

 

But yeah getting governments to agree on topics where the average citizen is misinformed and with very little grasp of basically anything and with no particular interest to inform themselves will be definitely a challenge to say the least.

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26 minutes ago, amunera said:

we are not close to running out of fossil fuels, just in methane, the proven reserves have steadily increased each year (and if you account for methane hydrates, which I mentioned earlier, and that countries like Japan are trying to extract, we could have methane for decades/centuries). Eventually it will be too expensive to get them out compared to other technologies, so they will eventually slow down as well.

The question is how far will the fossil fuel lobby make the fossil fuel based technologies stick and how far are we from the tipping point (as I mention most phenomena will become self reinforced). A lot of countries still subsidize petrol while taxing solar energy and stuff like that, if they were on an even playing field this discussion would not be even taking place :P

 

But yeah getting governments to agree on topics where the average citizen is misinformed and with very little grasp of basically anything and with no particular interest to inform themselves will be definitely a challenge to say the least.

In the US solar energy gets more State and Federal subsidies per kWh than any other source of energy but it still hasn't taken off. I think the cost of installation is still too high. 

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i hope we all run out of fossil fuels so we can all put down our cellphones, eat some meat in front of a campfire and go back to living like the neanderthal man.   where it won't just be VertFTW, but society as a whole demonstrating that evolution can go in reverse

less time banging around on the internet and more time spent huddling around a campfire, throwing rocks and sticks at stuff, jumping around in the mud trying to catch frogs, and hiding out in caves. i dont see whats so bad about that. hell these days, thats the kind of childhood parents only wish their kids would have instead of staying inside and piddling around with their tablets and watching cartoons all day

Edited by -idyb-

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9 hours ago, amunera said:

we are not close to running out of fossil fuels, just in methane, the proven reserves have steadily increased each year (and if you account for methane hydrates, which I mentioned earlier, and that countries like Japan are trying to extract, we could have methane for decades/centuries). Eventually it will be too expensive to get them out compared to other technologies, so they will eventually slow down as well.

The question is how far will the fossil fuel lobby make the fossil fuel based technologies stick and how far are we from the tipping point (as I mention most phenomena will become self reinforced). A lot of countries still subsidize petrol while taxing solar energy and stuff like that, if they were on an even playing field this discussion would not be even taking place :P

 

But yeah getting governments to agree on topics where the average citizen is misinformed and with very little grasp of basically anything and with no particular interest to inform themselves will be definitely a challenge to say the least.

We've got 50-55 years of oil left according to the first 3 things I read when googling how much oil have we got left. 

Ain't gonna pretend I've assessed their peer- reviewed quality though!

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4 hours ago, Bubba_Sparks said:

We've got 50-55 years of oil left according to the first 3 things I read when googling how much oil have we got left. 

Ain't gonna pretend I've assessed their peer- reviewed quality though!

That is probably the oil that you can extract at the current price, as you know we've been hearing for the past 50 years that we have 50 years left of oil :P

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My favorite climate change alarmist is Bernie Sanders. He says he refuses to take money from fossil fuel companies, but he spent nearly $300,000 on gas in October. LOL

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