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The art of MMA - When fans only want to see one style?

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Ok, as I've said before you guys are quite knowledgeable plus you often add some good vibes so I wanted to get your vibes in regards to fans who only want to see a certain style within the UFC or MMA in general.

I know the term can usually be casual fans which to be honest, there's nothing wrong with that (not everyone has to be a hardcore fan) however when you see comments such as the wrestling style of MMA and people are like "It's boring" to me it does make me wonder what you want to see or if you appreciate the art of MMA in general.

Example, I was just reading a conversation on BT Sport Facebook after they updated their banner of Till which went:

"He'll slap Askren about"
"Askren will lay on top of him, be boring"
"Wrestlers seem to be dominant at the moment, Khabib, Cormier, Askren"
"Boring though"

And it got me thinking why are they watching it? Do they understand the art and point of MMA (IE mixed martial arts going up against each other), this is the whole idea of the competition and why it's so huge and competitive.

I mean, even fans who go to the events can be like this such as the recent fight between Yancy Medeiros and Gregor Gillespie, the fans boo'd even though Gregor got the finish, it may have took time but he got it however Gregor mentioned he felt it was a case of how he gets it that the crowd want to see a slugfest, blood etc... but let him work them down, he fought hard in there and we do get the slugfests in various fights on the card anyway. 

I was wondering how you guys felt about these kind of things, again there's no right or wrong, if someone wants to watch UFC to see these kind of things they are more than entitled to do so but it did get me thinking. I don't think it's fair to just call them casual fans cause even if they are that's fine but as a fan of MMA/UFC it did make me wonder a little as to why they're watching it?

Is it because it's fighting and they'll watch it anyway or is it because they actually like mixed martial arts?, I know we all have our favourite style to watch and we all love the slugfests and I know we can have wrestling type fights that are boring (such as the one's where they just hold to waste time) however clearly that's not the case with many who say this as you can see from the conversation above.

Of course people can watch for whatever reason they feel too and the more people who watch it the better but it was something I was wondering about.

Just wondering what you guys thought here?

Edited by Welcome_to_Moe's
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First of all moe, there's no art in this ****. Its cage fighting and the purpose of the fight is to be entertaining.

Spamming wrestling and stalling on the ground, it's boring as **** and nobody wants to see that ****. Take a look at all fights that win performance bonuses or fight of the night/year awards. You won't find any Fitch or Shields fights.

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And that Gregory fight did suck, it was incredibly one sided and there was no risk involved for Gregory to lose. Thats why it was booed. 

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Yeah, wrestlefcking is boring as chit. Anyone who says they like it is either gay af or some dipchit casual trying to look like they are an expert.

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1 hour ago, PATSTER said:

First of all moe, there's no art in this ****. Its cage fighting and the purpose of the fight is to be entertaining.

Spamming wrestling and stalling on the ground, it's boring as **** and nobody wants to see that ****. Take a look at all fights that win performance bonuses or fight of the night/year awards. You won't find any Fitch or Shields fights.

Wow, arrogant much! "First of all Moe" ... wtf lol. It's takes a lot of skill so in my opinion it's an art, people train for years to get to the level they get with such a diverse style of fighting it's admirable but that's irrelevant, if you read the original post you will see I already pointed out the difference between spamming wrestling and the boring sh*te, it must be so frustrating for these fighters who work so hard at their craft just to be dismissed like that. 

Surprised with the responses to be honest, I expected better but ah well. 
 

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1 hour ago, Welcome_to_Moe's said:

Wow, arrogant much! "First of all Moe" ... wtf lol. It's takes a lot of skill so in my opinion it's an art, people train for years to get to the level they get with such a diverse style of fighting it's admirable but that's irrelevant, if you read the original post you will see I already pointed out the difference between spamming wrestling and the boring sh*te, it must be so frustrating for these fighters who work so hard at their craft just to be dismissed like that. 

Surprised with the responses to be honest, I expected better but ah well. 
 

 

3 hours ago, PATSTER said:

And that Gregory fight did suck, it was incredibly one sided and there was no risk involved for Gregory to lose. Thats why it was booed. 

 

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2 hours ago, Welcome_to_Moe's said:

Wow, arrogant much! "First of all Moe" ... wtf lol. It's takes a lot of skill so in my opinion it's an art, people train for years to get to the level they get with such a diverse style of fighting it's admirable but that's irrelevant, if you read the original post you will see I already pointed out the difference between spamming wrestling and the boring sh*te, it must be so frustrating for these fighters who work so hard at their craft just to be dismissed like that. 

Surprised with the responses to be honest, I expected better but ah well. 
 

You expected better from this crowd?? hahahahaha

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9 minutes ago, Yerbo said:

You expected better from this crowd?? hahahahaha

To be fair, there's been quite a few people who have added good discussions to a few threads, just the majority of the one's who have replied here you already know what their reply is going to be like soon as you see their name and they were exactly how I expected before I even opened it lol 

Edited by Welcome_to_Moe's
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Moe I think you are awesome, you are trying to keep this fora alive with new discussions but please dont try not to get rustled with any discussion lol

Please, low your expectancy when you make a thread and you will be a happy fora member 

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Just now, skillandpower said:

Moe I think you are awesome, you are trying to keep this fora alive with new discussions but please dont try not to get rustled with any discussion lol

Please, low your expectancy when you make a thread and you will be a happy fora member 

Yeah, will do dude and thank you :) 

I'll just start filtering out those who aren't here to have a discussion, you can tell the difference between those who want to and those who aren't here for that, whether people agree or disagree doesn't matter as it's what makes it great and I like to take different perspectives on board but you can tell some aren't here for that. Not sure if some are bored and have been here years or, I dunno but I'll just eventually filter people out so that the one's who are left are the one's who are interested in decent conversations. 

I've only got one person on the ignore list and don't really want to add any more but it's there for a reason I guess.

And thank you, I appreciate that sincerely! :) 

 

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37 minutes ago, Welcome_to_Moe's said:

To be fair, there's been quite a few people who have added good discussions to a few threads, just the majority of the one's who have replied here you already know what their reply is going to be like soon as you see their name and they were exactly how I expected before I even opened it lol 

What is this supposed to mean? My reply in here was probably the best post in years.

 

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1 hour ago, PATSTER said:

Ok if my legitimate post is getting this type of reaction this place has gone soft

I wrestled for a lot of my childhood, and I'm the first one to say that if I want to watch a wrestling match, I'll turn on the NCAA and do that. The cage is not the place for a wrestling match.

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Mixed Martial Arts. The UFC was created to see what was the greatest Art. BJJ won the war..

I’m a fan of all of them all. I do love grappling and wrasslin, but easily pleased with a dog fight.

 

Its not about being entertaining. This is not broadway. It’s aboit winning. Whether you grapple, bang, it don’t matter. Use your tools and use them wisely. 

People get lost in this, “I’m paying to be entertained”, whilst the fighters are fighting to put bread on the table.

 

If you wanna be entertained? Go to the Circus.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, wickles82 said:

Mixed Martial Arts. The UFC was created to see what was the greatest Art. BJJ won the war..

I’m a fan of all of them all. I do love grappling and wrasslin, but easily pleased with a dog fight.

 

Its not about being entertaining. This is not broadway. It’s aboit winning. Whether you grapple, bang, it don’t matter. Use your tools and use them wisely. 

People get lost in this, “I’m paying to be entertained”, whilst the fighters are fighting to put bread on the table.

 

If you wanna be entertained? Go to the Circus.

 

 

You're an idiot. I decide what is entertaining to me. You don't get to decide that.

If I'm bored with a wrestling match, that's my prerogative. If I boo because I'm bored, I paid to be here, too ****ing bad if you don't like it.

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Boo, piss your pants. Do whatever, I don’t care!

I just find it funny, some people DEMAND to be entertained. If you were a wrestler and needed to feed your kids. You wouldn’t stand up for 15/25 mins, just to please some casual who doesn’t even know your name 

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1 minute ago, wickles82 said:

Boo, piss your pants. Do whatever, I don’t care!

I just find it funny, some people DEMAND to be entertained. If you were a wrestler and needed to feed your kids. You wouldn’t stand up for 15/25 mins, just to please some casual who doesn’t even know your name 

I don't think you're intelligent enough to understand my angle. 

Do whatever the **** you want to do in the cage. I'll do the same outside of it. If I want to boo because you're wrestling, or because WMMA is boring as ****, or because it's Eddie Alvarez in the cage and I think he's a foglet, I'm going to boo and give zero ****s what you think about it.

The great part is that I actually affect the outcome of the fight when I'm sitting ringside and booing in the ref's ear. If I don't want to watch you wrassle, I'll boo very ****ing loudly until people start to join in. And guess what? 95% of the time, your **** will get stood up if you aren't going anywhere on the ground. 

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9 minutes ago, cashfl0w said:

I don't think you're intelligent enough to understand my angle. 

Do whatever the **** you want to do in the cage. I'll do the same outside of it. If I want to boo because you're wrestling, or because WMMA is boring as ****, or because it's Eddie Alvarez in the cage and I think he's a foglet, I'm going to boo and give zero ****s what you think about it.

The great part is that I actually affect the outcome of the fight when I'm sitting ringside and booing in the ref's ear. If I don't want to watch you wrassle, I'll boo very ****ing loudly until people start to join in. And guess what? 95% of the time, your **** will get stood up if you aren't going anywhere on the ground. 

Boo all you like. We’re in a Wrestling era, so the refs won’t stand it up. Also, the guys know when exactly to put pressure on

Enjoy sitting, booing, screaming in a high pitch tone. Have a great time and don’t forget your tampax 

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1 minute ago, wickles82 said:

Boo all you like. We’re in a Wrestling era, so the refs won’t stand it up. 

Wrong. You must have missed Marc Goddard telling Usman, "This is a fight!"

And do you know why he said that? Because mother****ers were booing. LOL

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7 hours ago, PATSTER said:

First of all moe, there's no art in this ****. Its cage fighting and the purpose of the fight is to be entertaining.

Spamming wrestling and stalling on the ground, it's boring as **** and nobody wants to see that ****. Take a look at all fights that win performance bonuses or fight of the night/year awards. You won't find any Fitch or Shields fights.

ain't nobody training to be an entertainer. people train to take out their opponent before the bell rings.

and imo that is exactly what the majority of the fans want to see. Not all fights can end in a special way and if they did it wouldn't be special anymore.

i would respect a boring, stalling fighter that runs for 14:50 minutes and finishes the fight because that is what he trained for even though his gameplan was boring. 

The UFC should bring back the PrideFC rules imo

@Welcome_to_Moe's

LOL! STFU

 

 

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Im ok with the grappling/wrestling as long as BOTH fighters are on the same boat.

Basically, Im ok with Askren vs Maia but not ok with Maia/Askren vs a striker.

 

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I don't wanna see only one thing be it wrestling, kickboxing, boxing, jitz. I also don't wanna see fighters using stall tactics avoiding engaging and advancing the fight in any phase be it free standing, clinching, against the cage or on the ground. I like technical fights & clever tactics with combined arms & strategy but with a gameness to get after it to destroy a mofo not just dominating or out pointing someone. VIOLENCE, TENACITY, FINALITY is what makes the sport exciting & interesting to me. 

I wanna see people get fk'ed up on the feet, worked over in the clinch, tossed on their head, smashed & pummeled on the ground, choked the fk out or getting their limbs stretched and cranked. 

Who's the King Daddy of savagery is what i want to know. IDGAF who can win a decision or survive. Like Zingano said i wanna know who dies in the woods if they met lol

Edited by StompGrind
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^^ So basically the art of fking people up. I'm not nearly as interested in the art of self preservation & defense unless it leads to fk'ing someone up. 

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21 minutes ago, skillandpower said:

Im ok with the grappling/wrestling as long as BOTH fighters are on the same boat.

Basically, Im ok with Askren vs Maia but not ok with Maia/Askren vs a striker.

 

Yeah, I think for me it depends on the wrestler, for example if they are someone who is really going to go in, rag their opponent like a rag doll, finish them etc.. then I don't mind, it can be a good fight. I prefer the stand up style more than anything (I think most do) but if it's a good wrestler, I can enjoy it and the mix up of styles I don't mind either cause it's like a test between both styles and of course the better opponent which I like.

I mean, when people say "No one wants to see a wrestler" is contradictory to me because lots of people want to see Khabib and if he's on a card, it's gonna sell. Now, when people say no one wants to see a boring wrestler, then that to me seems more accurate.

Of course, there's people who don't like the wrestling style at all and that's fine, then people who enjoy that too and there is nothing wrong with that either, there's no doubt fans out there who prefer the wrestling style over all the others (Askren as a fan probably would) so when people say "No one wants to see a wrestler" what they really mean is "I don't want to see a wrestler" which again, is perfectly fine.

Everyone is entitled to like what they want, boo want they want, cheer what they want etc.. and that's perfectly fine but people can only speak for themselves and obviously people do want to see that style because Khabib is probably one of the highest draws right now simply due to how good he is and how much he mauls his opponents, not just because he was involved with Conor McGregor (in case anyone says that).

Wrestling might not be the most popular style people like, hell it might even be the least popular but it's part of the game and without it, it wouldn't be the same.

As I say there's no right or wrong, just how we see it and for me, it's part of MMA whether it's my favourite or not.

Just my opinion of course but it's what I feel comes with it and it wouldn't be the same without it :)

5 minutes ago, StompGrind said:

I don't wanna see only one thing be it wrestling, kickboxing, boxing, jitz. I also don't wanna see fighters using stall tactics avoiding engaging and advancing the fight in any phase be it free standing, clinching, against the cage or on the ground. I like technical fights & clever tactics with combined arms & strategy but with a gameness to get after it to destroy a mofo not just dominating or out pointing someone. VIOLENCE, TENACITY, FINALITY is what makes the sport exciting & interesting to me. 

I wanna see people get fk'ed up on the feet, worked over in the clinch, tossed on their head, smashed & pummeled on the ground, choked the fk out or getting their limbs stretched and cranked. 

Who's the King Daddy of savagery is what i want to know. IDGAF who can win a decision or survive. Like Zingano said i wanna know who dies in the woods if they met lol

Exactly this!!!!!! I couldn't have said it better!!! 100%, spot on!!! That's exactly my sentiments on it also!!

It's the competition, the variety, everything that I can respect and appreciate, THIS is what makes it good for me!!

Honestly, I really couldn't have said it any better, you absolutely nailed it there!!

Thank you for that!! :) 
 

Edited by Welcome_to_Moe's

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Its not even just spamming wrestling. Elias Theodore is the most boring fighter on the roster and he fights standing.

Being a fan, i expect to be entertained watching a product and if I'm not entertained, i will call it boring. Dont care if "hardcores" say otherwise.

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1 minute ago, PATSTER said:

Its not even just spamming wrestling. Elias Theodore is the most boring fighter on the roster and he fights standing.

Being a fan, i expect to be entertained watching a product and if I'm not entertained, i will call it boring. Dont care if "hardcores" say otherwise.

Oh you're absolutely entitled to call it boring if you feel it's boring, no one can (or should) criticise you for that or make you feel like you shouldn't just because it doesn't fit with their sentiment. 

Not that you would let someone do that of course, but you get what I mean (in theory) :) 

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1 hour ago, wickles82 said:

Mixed Martial Arts. The UFC was created to see what was the greatest Art. BJJ won the war..

I’m a fan of all of them all. I do love grappling and wrasslin, but easily pleased with a dog fight.

Also this, I meant to quote this, this is exactly it! Mixed Martial Arts!!

That's my sentiment on it also, of course people can like it for their own reasons but this is how I feel about it completely and what it's all about.

Tatiana Suarez Tweet here sounds like it was out of frustration with people not understanding this (after the whole Gregor thing).

I think it pisses some of the fighters off to be honest when they work hard at their craft and don't get appreciated for it simply because people just want to see a slugfest (regardless of the Gregor fight it's something they have to deal with quite often)

It's interesting to say the least the different vibes on this. 

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I just realized a mother****er in here just said BJJ won the martial arts "war"... LOLOL

Remind me which champion won their belt via submission again? Oh yeah, the only one is the guy who is notorious for wearing the shirt "If Sambo was easy, they would call it jiu-jitsu". 

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35 minutes ago, Welcome_to_Moe's said:

Oh you're absolutely entitled to call it boring if you feel it's boring, no one can (or should) criticise you for that or make you feel like you shouldn't just because it doesn't fit with their sentiment. 

Not that you would let someone do that of course, but you get what I mean (in theory) :) 

5c0f1af3f98d2bb0f4ef413d4ec29e1c3a1807aa

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1 minute ago, wickles82 said:

Frank Mir 🤦‍♂️

What year was that? How many BJJ guys have belts now?

Yeah, get some, junior. 

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35 minutes ago, cashfl0w said:

Remind me which champion won their belt via submission again?

Mighty Mouse 🤦‍♂️

 

Boom, roasted 

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2 minutes ago, wickles82 said:

GSP 🤦‍♂️

He beat the tenth best fighter in the weight class and would get sonned by the rest of them. LOLOL

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Just now, cashfl0w said:

Welp, you've brought all the cringe we can handle tonight. That's enough out of you.

Nighty night. Boom, roasted 

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To the OP, any fight that isn't wild with a devastating KO or sub finish gets derided. Grappling-heavy fights are "lay and pray" and boring. Striking-heavy fights where the fighters aren't throwing with reckless abandon are "running", "dancing", "point-fighting" and also boring.

You can't win. I'm guilty of the same thing myself, especially when such a strategy is being employed against a fighter I like.

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11 minutes ago, ijosef said:

To the OP, any fight that isn't wild with a devastating KO or sub finish gets derided. Grappling-heavy fights are "lay and pray" and boring. Striking-heavy fights where the fighters aren't throwing with reckless abandon are "running", "dancing", "point-fighting" and also boring.

You can't win. I'm guilty of the same thing myself, especially when such a strategy is being employed against a fighter I like.

Yeah, I hear ya, it's a shame really, guess there's different types of fans some who just want to see that what you mentioned and others who appreciate the skill and style that comes with it, I guess some arent interested in that but for me it's all part of it.

I honestly think @StompGrindnailed it, that's pretty much my sentiments on it also, he just put it so well and that's pretty much what I like and want to see, the variety of it all to give us the result in the end.

 

 

Edited by Welcome_to_Moe's

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2 hours ago, wickles82 said:

Mixed Martial Arts. The UFC was created to see what was the greatest Art. BJJ won the war..

 

Close. The first UFC was an infomercial for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. They stopped the show to give some made-up BS award to Helio, for pete's sake. Don't get me wrong - without Rorion Gracie and Art Davies, modern MMA would probably be nothing like it is today. At the same time, we need to be realistic about BJJ (remember, it's GRACIE jiu-jitsu to the Gracies) and its inherent weaknesses.

They were extremely careful not to allow any other knowledgeable submission grapplers in the first UFC event. They made a mistake with Shamrock, thinking he was a muscled up brawler and not realizing he'd picked up some footlocks and such from his shootfighting.

From Shamrock:

“I figured everything was even until I got in there and I fought and I found out I’d been screwed,” Shamrock said. “The day before the fight, they said that it was no rules, no time limit and anything goes. The day before the fight, they take my wrestling shoes away. If you look at that fight, my feet are slipping all over the place trying to get a grip to finish the submission hold I had on him. What happened to the no rules and anything goes?”

Shamrock also said that, more than 20 years after the first meeting, he can’t wrap his head around how his wrestling shoes were considered a “weapon” yet no consideration was given to Gracie’s choice of attire.

“For that split second, I’m going, ‘He just choked me – with a gi. How is that not a weapon?’” he said.

We'll never know how that fight would've gone had he been able to wear his shoes - any wrestler will tell you that grappling w/o shoes for the first time feels like you're on ice skates. We all know how the rematch went, when Royce was completely helpless on his back for half an hour.

But forget Shamrock. Look at what happened when Royce fought a Billy Robinson-trained catch wrestler (Sakuraba), or a skilled judoka (Yoshida).

Maybe BJJ did win the martial arts war, but not because it was the best art. It won because of marketing.

 

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2 minutes ago, ijosef said:

Close. The first UFC was an infomercial for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. They stopped the show to give some made-up BS award to Helio, for pete's sake. Don't get me wrong - without Rorion Gracie and Art Davies, modern MMA would probably be nothing like it is today. At the same time, we need to be realistic about BJJ (remember, it's GRACIE jiu-jitsu to the Gracies) and its inherent weaknesses.

They were extremely careful not to allow any other knowledgeable submission grapplers in the first UFC event. They made a mistake with Shamrock, thinking he was a muscled up brawler and not realizing he'd picked up some footlocks and such from his shootfighting.

From Shamrock:

“I figured everything was even until I got in there and I fought and I found out I’d been screwed,” Shamrock said. “The day before the fight, they said that it was no rules, no time limit and anything goes. The day before the fight, they take my wrestling shoes away. If you look at that fight, my feet are slipping all over the place trying to get a grip to finish the submission hold I had on him. What happened to the no rules and anything goes?”

Shamrock also said that, more than 20 years after the first meeting, he can’t wrap his head around how his wrestling shoes were considered a “weapon” yet no consideration was given to Gracie’s choice of attire.

“For that split second, I’m going, ‘He just choked me – with a gi. How is that not a weapon?’” he said.

We'll never know how that fight would've gone had he been able to wear his shoes - any wrestler will tell you that grappling w/o shoes for the first time feels like you're on ice skates. We all know how the rematch went, when Royce was completely helpless on his back for half an hour.

But forget Shamrock. Look at what happened when Royce fought a Billy Robinson-trained catch wrestler (Sakuraba), or a skilled judoka (Yoshida).

Maybe BJJ did win the martial arts war, but not because it was the best art. It won because of marketing.

 

Interesting post, I had no idea about this.

To be honest, I don't see a specific style as winning the war, I just see it as different styles and how good the fighters are win the fights which can work in any various way if you get what I mean.

I had no idea about all that though so that's very insightful :)

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Are people actually defending boring fights?

I have no problem with good grappling, sub attempts and finishes, transitions into escapes and ground and pound.

But the Ben Asscan/GSP hold a guy and barely move enough to not get stood up, get the **** out of here. Or the Maia laying on his back waiting for some moron to jump into a sub.

Go watch paint dry, it is more entertaining.

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16 minutes ago, MoZZez said:

Are people actually defending boring fights?

I have no problem with good grappling, sub attempts and finishes, transitions into escapes and ground and pound.

But the Ben Asscan/GSP hold a guy and barely move enough to not get stood up, get the **** out of here. Or the Maia laying on his back waiting for some moron to jump into a sub.

Go watch paint dry, it is more entertaining.

I don't think anyone is defending boring fights, a boring fight is a boring fight but you have to bare in mind it's subjective too, where one person might see a certain fight as boring another might have really enjoyed it for whatever reason. I also disagree in regards to Askren's fights being boring, dude has got grappling holds for days so you never know what he's going to come out with or what he's going to do, specially if he's got a good fight ahead of him (Askren vs Khabib), I still want to see a lot more of Askren but I don't think he's a guy who just holds a guy down, he goes in to finish and that's where it's good as opposed to those who just hold on just because.

Like most, I prefer the stand up game, but I can also appreciate a good grappling fight like yourself, I think what you mentioned in your second line there is spot on!

But again, it's each to their own so where as one person might find it boring as hell another might really love that, as I say, Askren as a fan probably would really enjoy a Gregor Gillespie fight more so than someone who just loves to see Conor McGregor KO someone, it's all a mixture of arts so we're going to get fans of various styles preferring things over the other, be boring if we all liked the same. 

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