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UFC 100: Frank Mir vs. Brock Lesnar (official thread)

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generates enough force

generates enough force

generates enough force

generates enough force

 

 

nuff said.

 

Don't cry because you picked a stupid thing to argue and were proven wrong.

 

in the words of Hendo your a ****** bag..... you are nit picking to try to sound smart but yet failed...

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Mir- After Pe de Pano, where he looked terrible, and Vera, where he got embarrassed, I thought he was done. He showed amazing aplomb to take his beating against Lesnar and pull out the win. I thought his hands were awesome against Nogueira, sick or not. He was throwing vertical fists, and doing small circle hooks to place the shots right where he wanted them while defending. How sharp can he get his game for that fight? What can he pick out about Lesnar to set up, if he is more experienced?

 

Lesnar- One of his best attributes, not seeming to be talked about much, is how long his arms are. Randy didn't look like an old man to me. He ducked/ bobbed to the side to a place he is usually safe, but Brock's long arm went that far-...KO. Maybe it was a plan to let Randy push him around, but Brock looked tired to me at the end. Odd strategy to tire yourself out. His ability to ride while on top is awesome. He does it effortlessly, and always maintains good hip position and good balance. Tough to get that guy off you.

 

What will probably happen:

 

1) Brock will KO Mir in the first round if his striking is improved, as Mir tries to hide a similar safe place, but gets hit anyway.

 

2) Brock will land some form of takedown eventually, and pound on Mir til its over

 

What I hope will happen:

 

1) Mir is sharp that night, and makes Lesnar pay for trying to enter with sharp striking, and is able to land some kind of takedown while Lesnar absobs it, to end with any technique he chooses from the top.

 

2) Mir gets Lesnar to duck into a head kick- KO

 

 

3) Mir exchanges with Lesnar, takes 60-70% of the advantage, but is rung by the 30-40% he takes, and lands a solid hip toss or other throw as Lesnar bull rushes to finish, then arm bars the supposedly too strong to arm bar guy.

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....

 

Lift hips... squeeze knees... flip thumb to point up position.. SNAP POP... You dont even need to use power... unless you cant physically lift your own **** off the ground' date=' hold someones wrist, or have no knee movement.

 

Fine. A quad cannot submit someone because they dont have the power.:rolleyes:[/quote']

 

That maybe works on training when the other guy isnt really defending. But in a fight you would need strenght to pull out a submission

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That maybe works on training when the other guy isnt really defending. But in a fight you would need strenght to pull out a submission

 

Yes exactly. an armbar, and any other bjj hold, does take strength to apply. Lesnar, or anyone else for that matter, is not just gonna sit there and hold his arm out straight and wait for you to squeeze your knees, turn his thumb up (do you have any idea how hard it would be to turn lesnars arm alone.) etc. This happens only in training. And again training, learning, and aplication of bjj are 3 different things. But again staying on topic, Lesnar is stupid strong, but mir is def strong enough to finish any move.

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in the words of Hendo your a ****** bag..... you are nit picking to try to sound smart but yet failed...

 

Ahh QQ more. .. and btw nice reversion to insults when you had no real argument to back up your claims. People only turn to insults when they have no logical arguments to stand on. I like how you think I am a D-bag for pointing out someones hyperbole and exaggerations.

 

face it. The group who were saying it takes no force and no strength to use submissions are wrong. hell, someone even said a 6 year old could break a grown ups arm with an arm bar.

 

I'm not nit picking to sound smart. I am merely showing everyone how the people arguing this are wrong....and naive when it comes to submissions.

 

When someone is actively working against you, actively resisting you, you must overcome said resistance.

 

The reason BJJ allowed smaller guys to bear bigger guys back in the day is because 99% of those bigger guys didn't know anything about it. They didn't know when they were being set up, didn't know when to resist, etc. Now that pretty much every size fighter has at least the basics of BJJ, they know what to resist, what to struggle against.

 

SO ya it does take force to pull a submission. To even attempt to argue otherwise is either ignorant or stupid. And I don't think any of you arguing against this are stupid... you all just don't want to admit you were all exaggerating and are wrong.

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Haven't really seen Brock do much more than rush and punch a lot. Mir is going to take this to the ground and keep working til he gets a sub. I'm saying Mir by submission and it doesn't matter which round. GSP is going to win by TKO or KO. Doesn't matter which round but that is what is going to happen. GO MIR and GO GSP!!!

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The point here is that if one were to let someone put them in an armbar, no, it doesn't take much force to break the arm. Thats a fact. But it's not like you'd call someone a freakin beast because they may have broken someones arm in an armbar in an actual fight, you'd call 'em an A'hole for pulling too hard. And anyway, exaggeration is something that happens all the time, and everyone knows it, so we don't feel the need to call people out on every little exaggeration just for the sake of being correct, it's called the human element, we know what people mean even when they are exaggerating

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generates enough force

generates enough force

generates enough force

generates enough force

 

 

nuff said.

 

Don't cry because you picked a stupid thing to argue and were proven wrong.

 

Your a F*uckin moron' date=' you need to read before you post so you don't make yourself look even dumber than you already do!

Ahh QQ more. .. and btw nice reversion to insults when you had no real argument to back up your claims. People only turn to insults when they have no logical arguments to stand on. I like how you think I am a D-bag for pointing out someones hyperbole and exaggerations.

 

face it. The group who were saying it takes no force and no strength to use submissions are wrong. hell, someone even said a 6 year old could break a grown ups arm with an arm bar.

 

I'm not nit picking to sound smart. I am merely showing everyone how the people arguing this are wrong....and naive when it comes to submissions.

 

When someone is actively working against you, actively resisting you, you must overcome said resistance.

 

The reason BJJ allowed smaller guys to bear bigger guys back in the day is because 99% of those bigger guys didn't know anything about it. They didn't know when they were being set up, didn't know when to resist, etc. Now that pretty much every size fighter has at least the basics of BJJ, they know what to resist, what to struggle against.

 

SO ya it does take force to pull a submission. To even attempt to argue otherwise is either ignorant or stupid. And I don't think any of you arguing against this are stupid... you all just don't want to admit you were all exaggerating and are wrong.

 

Again I would like to point out that your an Idiot! Nobody is saying that subs don't take strength to SET UP, but once they are LOCK IN it takes very little.

 

And before you accuse people of not being informed, realize your talking to someone that, in all likelihood, would have you tied in a pretty bow in under 20 seconds. I have forgotten more about BJJ then you'll ever know my friend!

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Your a F*uckin moron' date=' you need to read before you post so you don't make yourself look even dumber than you already do!

 

 

Again I would like to point out that your an Idiot! Nobody is saying that subs don't take strength to SET UP, but once they are LOCK IN it takes very little.

 

And before you accuse people of not being informed, realize your talking to someone that, in all likelihood, would have you tied in a pretty bow in under 20 seconds. I have forgotten more about BJJ then you'll ever know my friend![/quote']

 

Why is he an idiot? So you are trying to say that if you had lets say Lesnar locked in you could just tap him out with little bit of strenght.

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Why is he an idiot? So you are trying to say that if you had lets say Lesnar locked in you could just tap him out with little bit of strenght.

 

Lesnar is a bit of a stretch, but surely you have seen some of Royce's fights back in the day? He's easily submitted guys much bigger than him.

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Why is he an idiot? So you are trying to say that if you had lets say Lesnar locked in you could just tap him out with little bit of strenght.

 

Correct! How is that so hard to understand. The strength comes into play GETTING it locked in.

 

Once anyone is locked in (on his back with his arm in between my legs and my right leg over his neck while pushing my knees together) I don't care if its Lesnar or some random dude off the street, all I have to do is push up with my hips and your done! Then I could also pull down on your arms and make it worse. No one (not even Brock) has enough strength in ONE ARM to break free of someone using their whole body wieght, leverage and technique against them. Thats the whole point of BJJ, for smaller weaker people to be able to win against bigger opponents. If strength was such a huge part of subs that wouldn't be possible. Which is why you use your opponents size and strength against him through leverage and technique!!!

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Dekkers > Buakaw

 

Different era's, you can't compare. That's like saying Royce>Maia.

 

But by a quick look on wikipedia. Buakaw actually has one more win then Dekker so technically Buakaw>Dekker

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Correct! How is that so hard to understand. The strength comes into play GETTING it locked in.

 

Once anyone is locked in (on his back with his arm in between my legs and my right leg over his neck while pushing my knees together) I don't care if its Lesnar or some random dude off the street' date=' all I have to do is push up with my hips and your done! Then I could also pull down on your arms and make it worse. No one (not even Brock) has enough strength in ONE ARM to break free of someone using their whole body wieght, leverage and technique against them. Thats the whole point of BJJ, for smaller weaker people to be able to win against bigger opponents. If strength was such a huge part of subs that wouldn't be possible. Which is why you use your opponents size and strength against him through leverage and technique!!![/quote']

 

I do understand that techicque is much more important than strenght in submiting guys, but I cant completly agree with you beacuse i ve been training judo for a long time and I know its not the same as BJJ, but armbar is an armbar and I sometimes got out of almost imposiblle positions just with my strenght. The guy who was submiting me was much weaker but still you got to have at least some strenght. Trust me, no girl would be able to submit me or a child.

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I do understand that techicque is much more important than strenght in submiting guys' date=' but I cant completly agree with you beacuse i ve been training judo for a long time and I know its not the same as BJJ, but armbar is an armbar and I sometimes got out of almost imposiblle positions just with my strenght. The guy who was submiting me was much weaker but still you got to have at least some strenght. Trust me, no girl would be able to submit me or a child.[/quote']

 

Trust me, a women who knows what she is doing could sub you. I bet Cyborg could sub you without any problems. I know women that could sub a LOT of men. It all depends on skill level and technique.

 

And no a kid is not going to sub you, but thats a weak argument IMO. How many kids fight in MMA?

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Anyone, I repeat anyone, well trained in BJJ, could submit any non-trained person, big or small. But when both fighters are well trained, in comes the technique. But really, if it's locked in, chances are you will tap, unless you just have a nack for escaping subs in unorthadox ways. But you just pulling your arm with just your strength, would not escape just because you are strong.

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Trust me' date=' a women who knows what she is doing could sub you. I bet Cyborg could sub you without any problems. I know women that could sub a LOT of men. It all depends on skill level and technique.

 

And no a kid is not going to sub you, but thats a weak argument IMO. How many kids fight in MMA?[/quote']

 

i agree with Jits here... i have seen a 13 year old girl that was a black belt in Parker System Kempo Karate beat the **** out of a 30 year old man who thought he was a bad ****... knowledge is power and id you do not believe that you are a moron... and being so overconfident in thinking that "No woman could sub me" shows how mentally weak you are, i would bet a billion dollars that there are more women then you can count that can beat you like a red headed step child and sub you before you knew they were holding on to you

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I tried, I really did. I tried to read all this, and remove the crap. If I missed something, I am sorry.

The fastest way to get a thread closed is to fill it with insults.

I will say this,

Hellio Gracie once said "give me enough leverage, I could lift the world."

Snapping someones arm has more to do with leverage then strength.

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I do understand that techicque is much more important than strenght in submiting guys' date=' but I cant completly agree with you beacuse i ve been training judo for a long time and I know its not the same as BJJ, but armbar is an armbar and I sometimes got out of almost imposiblle positions just with my strenght. The guy who was submiting me was much weaker but still you got to have at least some strenght. Trust me, no girl would be able to submit me or a child.[/quote']

 

You are wrong. I promise you that there are plenty of girls out there that could sub you. Don't let Freakchylde hear you say that or she will invite you to her gym like the last guy I saw say that, and show you first hand.

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I tried' date=' I really did. I tried to read all this, and remove the crap. If I missed something, I am sorry.

The fastest way to get a thread closed is to fill it with insults.

I will say this,

Hellio Gracie once said "give me enough leverage, I could lift the world."

Snapping someones arm has more to do with leverage then strength.[/quote']

 

Exactly

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You are wrong. I promise you that there are plenty of girls out there that could sub you. Don't let Freakchylde here you say that or she will invite you to her gym like the last guy I saw say that' date=' and show you first hand.[/quote']

 

Is she a fellow BJJ practitioner? I shall have to add her immediately :)

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OMFG... Thank you that someone else like G came into this.. reading these last two pages actually frustrates me. I mean... REALLY frustrates me. Its sad that people actually believe if you are incredibly strong, you can just escape an armbar. I want to know why I have escaped people who are strong then me then, and why I have been tapped by smaller people. I also want to know why my master makes +300 pound men tap. Under this whole "it takes power!" thing, he would never physically be able to do that, but yet he can with ease.

 

Also, certain children can submit you as well. If there legs are long enough, strong enough, and they are old enough to understand the technique to a near perfection, then yes... they will either tap you or snap you.

 

Wow... This is the difference between people that DONT train, and that DO train.

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I tried' date=' I really did. I tried to read all this, and remove the crap. If I missed something, I am sorry.

The fastest way to get a thread closed is to fill it with insults.

I will say this,

Hellio Gracie once said "give me enough leverage, I could lift the world."

Snapping someones arm has more to do with leverage then strength.[/quote']

 

your are big poopy pants

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OMFG... Thank you that someone else like G came into this.. reading these last two pages actually frustrates me. I mean... REALLY frustrates me. Its sad that people actually believe if you are incredibly strong' date=' you can just escape an armbar. I want to know why I have escaped people who are strong then me then, and why I have been tapped by smaller people. I also want to know why my master makes +300 pound men tap. Under this whole "it takes power!" thing, he would never physically be able to do that, but yet he can with ease.

 

Also, certain children can submit you as well. If there legs are long enough, strong enough, and they are old enough to understand the technique to a near perfection, then yes... they will either tap you or snap you.

 

[b']Wow... This is the difference between people that DONT train, and that DO train[/b].

 

 

We really can close the thread after this comment!!!

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your are big poopy pants

 

I love you too Kang, you know this.

I am stronger then my son, but once he gets an armbar locked in on me, there is nothing I can do but tap. He is a tough kid though. 17 and all. Funny that one of my good friends jumped on my kid to wrestle him. My buddy is 30. It did not take long at all for him to tap from an armbar. He did not expect it, and jumped on my kid in a dominate position.

Leverage>>>>>strength.

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definitely leverage over strength but Mir needs to get the armbar flushly in before that comes into play. The key is to stop Mir from getting that good position by compacting him when the armbar is on

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I love you too Kang' date=' you know this.

I am stronger then my son, but once he gets an armbar locked in on me, there is nothing I can do but tap. He is a tough kid though. 17 and all. Funny that one of my good friends jumped on my kid to wrestle him. My buddy is 30. It did not take long at all for him to tap from an armbar. He did not expect it, and jumped on my kid in a dominate position.

[b']Leverage>>>>>strength = DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/b].

 

There, I fixed that for ya :P

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UGH!

 

You dont know what we are debating' date=' because I am actually speaking to Clew about this...

 

.. I give up, you guys are just too smart.

 

and... inhumanly strong.[/quote']

 

I find it absolutely AWESOME that all this started because iwish read into a private joke about spidey and wecryhavoc........ Iwish, i said they were easy and anyone could do them because that was spidey's CONSTANT argument against Mir. Sorry if you felt the need to educate me about armbars....i do train though....thanks anyway....did i mention the storm you started was awesome? oh yeah...I did.

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I find it absolutely AWESOME that all this started because iwish read into a private joke about spidey and wecryhavoc........ Iwish' date=' i said they were easy and anyone could do them because that was spidey's CONSTANT argument against Mir. Sorry if you felt the need to educate me about armbars....i do train though....thanks anyway....did i mention the storm you started was awesome? oh yeah...I did.[/quote']

 

Did we all mention what you said was wrong? Yeah, we did.

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You are wrong. I promise you that there are plenty of girls out there that could sub you. Don't let Freakchylde hear you say that or she will invite you to her gym like the last guy I saw say that' date=' and show you first hand.[/quote']

 

Well i meant normal girls:) not girls like Cyborg and Freakchylde who are practicly men

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OMFG... Thank you that someone else like G came into this.. reading these last two pages actually frustrates me. I mean... REALLY frustrates me. Its sad that people actually believe if you are incredibly strong' date=' you can just escape an armbar. I want to know why I have escaped people who are strong then me then, and why I have been tapped by smaller people. I also want to know why my master makes +300 pound men tap. Under this whole "it takes power!" thing, he would never physically be able to do that, but yet he can with ease.

 

Also, certain children can submit you as well. If there legs are long enough, strong enough, and they are old enough to understand the technique to a near perfection, then yes... they will either tap you or snap you.

 

Wow... This is the difference between people that DONT train, and that DO train.[/quote']

 

It really seams to me that some of you think that you are the only one that actually train something and the rest of us are just sitting on are ****. While I do agree that technique is more important than strenght. But you have to be really good tecnician to beat someone who is way stronger than you. My trainer was also submiting guys much heavier than him . I am not saying you have to be super strong to finish a locked armbar but when strenght difference is huge its going to be factor.

If there would be a fight between a black belt BJJ women and a strong thug who knows very little I would always bet my money on the former. Why do you guys think Lesnar and Sapp manage to win

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Well i meant normal girls:) not girls like Cyborg and Freakchylde who are practicly men

 

Yeah, practically men? Gina? Freak? Na man, you are way off. Freak is all women, trust me. And hot to boot.

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i agree with Jits here... i have seen a 13 year old girl that was a black belt in Parker System Kempo Karate beat the **** out of a 30 year old man who thought he was a bad ****... knowledge is power and id you do not believe that you are a moron... and being so overconfident in thinking that "No woman could sub me" shows how mentally weak you are' date=' i would bet a billion dollars that there are more women then you can count that can beat you like a red headed step child and sub you before you knew they were holding on to you[/quote']

 

Just beacuse girls are beating you that doesnt mean they are able to do the same to me. The difference in strenght is dramatic and if you dont know that then I guess you are living in a different world

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It really seams to me that some of you think that you are the only one that actually train something and the rest of us are just sitting on are ****. While I do agree that technique is more important than strenght. But you have to be really good tecnician to beat someone who is way stronger than you. My trainer was also submiting guys much heavier than him . I am not saying you have to be super strong to finish a locked armbar but when strenght difference is huge its going to be factor.

If there would be a fight between a black belt BJJ women and a strong thug who knows very little I would always bet my money on the former. Why do you guys think Lesnar and Sapp manage to win

 

We are only talking about submissions here. The one time where Lesnar was caught in a good hold, he tapped.

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Yeah' date=' practically men? Gina? Freak? Na man, you are way off. Freak is all women, trust me. And hot to boot.[/quote']

 

Ok excluding Gina and I have to admit I dont know who Freak is. I just thought she belongs in the same category as Cyborg

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Just beacuse girls are beating you that doesnt mean they are able to do the same to me. The difference in strenght is dramatic and if you dont know that then I guess you are living in a different world

 

i know G__row said lay off the insults so i will go easy... you are a tool and if you are not training in an area where people are better then you then that means you are not training in a place forth a damn... and you are a sexist fool if you are unwilling to believe a female is capable of beating you in a fight of any type be it grappling or standing... and its sad to think that your kind of ignorance is still out there....

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Ok excluding Gina and I have to admit I dont know who Freak is. I just thought she belongs in the same category as Cyborg

 

No, not hardly. She posts here.

A few years ago there was a guy on the TUF forum saying things along the same line as you. Freak invited him to her gym and in fact did tap him out.

And she is not "manly" at all.

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Hizo' date=' try telling him that his comments are foolish, but please refrain from telling him he is a "tool."[/quote']

 

is dingleberry better? :D

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No' date=' not hardly. She posts here.

A few years ago there was a guy on the TUF forum saying things along the same line as you. Freak invited him to her gym and in fact did tap him out.

And she is not "manly" at all.[/quote']

 

Well I am sory for that comment I made about her than. But I find really hard to imagine that she could tap me out. It would be interesting though. I would be first to apologize but I dont really bealive it

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