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Does Sonnen deserve rematch


WaSupGuy

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Question above

 

NOT TRYIN TO TROLL OR HATE JUST A CALM CONVERSATION

 

I dont think he does and heres why, he lost decisvely, by submission. Yes he was beating on Anderson for 4.5 rounds and he is the only guy to test Anderson but does that constitute a rematch no, he still lost. The premise for this argument is the he was winning before he lost, he looked good before he got beat. This rematch is IMO kind of insulting to bjj, its a legit finish and thats its point to use technique over strength. Just cause the other guy was winning before he lost shouldnt lead to a rematch. Do you know how many rematches that would be wt??? Thats the nature of the sport its what makes it epic and fun. Its not about how long you had the higher score its about who won at the end, Silva did. I think two more fights maybe then Chael should be good to go, Brains weakness to wrestlers is well documented. If they do fight and Chael can do what he did in the first fight and avoid the sub then ya he would beat Silva but thats something else entirely.

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Question above

 

NOT TRYIN TO TROLL OR HATE JUST A CALM CONVERSATION

 

I dont think he does and heres why' date=' he lost decisvely, by submission. Yes he was beating on Anderson for 4.5 rounds and he is the only guy to test Anderson but does that constitute a rematch no, he still lost. The premise for this argument is the [b']he was winning before he lost, he looked good before he got beat[/b]. This rematch is IMO kind of insulting to bjj, its a legit finish and thats its point to use technique over strength. Just cause the other guy was winning before he lost shouldnt lead to a rematch. Do you know how many rematches that would be wt??? Thats the nature of the sport its what makes it epic and fun. Its not about how long you had the higher score its about who won at the end, Silva did. I think two more fights maybe then Chael should be good to go, Brains weakness to wrestlers is well documented. If they do fight and Chael can do what he did in the first fight and avoid the sub then ya he would beat Silva but thats something else entirely.

 

Chael deserves a rematch no questions asked !

 

He just beat Stann, who was on a winning streak and had all the hype of the MW division. Also Dana always sais he makes fights fans wanna see, and well WE ALL WANNA see this rematch.

 

BTW - who the heck else would get a title shot ? Anderson has allready wrecked Vitor, Okami and company, Bisping and Miller are wrapped up in TUFF .... Who does that leave? Thats right Chael the only guy to give Anderson a real fight !

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I agree with you that Chael lost, however i think Chael deserves another shot after being so close. But if Chael loses , he most likely will have to wait till Silva does retire, to have another shot at the belt. Because i dont want to see Chael vs Silva again after this last fight, if Silva wins.

 

If Silva wins again by submission in the last few seconds, your right, its still a win and Chael will never deserve another fight with Silva again.

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I don't think Sonnen does deserve a rematch but he is the only logical choice at this stage. Nobody else really offers an exciting fight thats gonna sell but I just don't like a convicted criminal insulting his way to a rematch, yeah he did well against Silva in the first fight and I'm interested to see if he could it again. I would like to see the rematch but hell no do i think Sonnen deserves it. Apparently to if all you have to do to get a title shot is end a hype train and then insult someone's spouse the best course of action for Lauzon would be to release a press statement saying he's gonna bang Mrs.Edgar

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No one else wants to see Sonnen fight a good wrestler? I mean' date=' who has he fought who could wrestle? Okami showed in the Silva fight that he's not that great at wrestling and Sonnen already decisioned him. Is there any competition for Chael at MW in that aspect?

 

I wonder if Sonnen would duck GSP...[/quote']

 

LOL , Sonnen would destroy GSP....

 

There is no chance of a flash KO, and Chaels bigger and better at wrestling. GSP has spent almost zero time on his back.

 

Chael would own GSP via Mauling.............

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Seriously if sonnen didnt get all this media attention for talking so loud would he be in contention? Granting a rematch based on the way he looked in the 1st fight is pointless. He looked great because everyone else looked terrible before him. Had it been a 3 rnd fight against a nobody and ended that way no1 would ask for a rematch or care at all. They d just aknowledge that he lost. Now.. silva s been on the top for so long he of course built tons of haters and they crave to see him lose. They just cling to anyone seems to have a shot. Does that make sonnen worthy? No.

 

He defeated stann, who we all knew he would. I never thought stann was that great and this was proven last weekend.

 

Sonnen is a good fighter but he isnt the best mw. He got totally owned my maia and would get owned again. So what is it with him... he just happens to have the riht skillset for the current champ. And despite this advantage, he lost. Have him fight maia and vitor. If he s victorious then yeah he s ****ing worthy. But who the **** is stann..

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Silva should be begging for this match after what Sonnen's said about him/his wife/his country.

 

You know why he's not asking for this fight after his piss poor performance in the first one?

 

COWARD

 

exactly Sonnen is giving him a chance to get the belt, but Anderson doesn't want it :confused:

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TBH, the way which Sonnen beat Stann gained him a lot of respect from me, i thought Stann would have gone through him... BUT, i think he should have faced Belfort first before being given a shot.

 

Another way i look at it is, maybe it is better that we just get it out of the way and be done with it. Let Sonnen face a 100% fit Silva, without any testosterone enhancements, he will lose and lose royally and then he can disappear and we can all move on!

 

The thing that really gets me with Sonnen is that he what, 5-4 in his UFC career? and he talks about being the best MW in world????

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Silva should be begging for this match after what Sonnen's said about him/his wife/his country.

 

You know why he's not asking for this fight after his piss poor performance in the first one?

 

COWARD

 

Well i think asking for this fight in reaction to what sonnen said would come down do rewarding him for dissing him and his country. You d do that? Then you d play right into his game and that mean you re kinda dumb and ez to bait.

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It wouldn't be considered a reward to me. I'd be the most motivated man in MMA and would be confident that I would maul this guy. Getting in there to shut-him up and show that the 22:30 minutes/seconds of pounding was a fluke would be my #1 priority.

 

Why hesitate or question it?

 

So what if you re the most motivated man in mma you never know what can happen and **** your **** up. Why take that risk to please an idiot who keeps disrespecting you when you already hold the belt and the fame. Why grant him the chance to fulfill his dreams thats a huge thing to do for someone who gives you nothing but ****.

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Honestly....

 

who in the division deserves a fight with Silva other than Sonnen?

 

Nobody has proven they're up to par with Silva except Sonnen who almost pulled out a decision against him.

 

No one really deserves a fight with Silva. So like I already said, Sonnen wins by default. No one in the division has done well over their past few fights, at least not well enough to warrant a title shot.

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A few tidbits and thoughts....

 

First, as has been said, who else is worth putting against Silva? Answer : no one.

 

Second, there are a lot of reasons why a rematch is compelling. Would Silva dominate without the "broken rib"? Would Sonnen suddenly look sloppy and weak without elevated testosterone? Would Sonnen fall victim to a last-minute sub again?

(Personally, I think no to all. I think Silva's rib was broken by Sonnen's knee to the ribs, Sonnen's testosterone levels were within natural ranges even though they were near the higher end, and Sonnen was very near to breaking loose from the triangle)

 

Third, someone was talking as if wanting to see a rematch disrespects the martial art of BJJ. No, it does not. Silva managed to get a triangle on Sonnen, but was unable to control Sonnen from countering the choke and barely managed to put enough pressure on Sonnen's arm to get a tap. The rest of the fight Silva managed to do very little to contain, control, or counter Sonnen's top game. Had Silva put on a BJJ clinic and actually had a grappling battle that was at all indicitive of a BJJ black belt, sure, it might be insulting.

 

Fourth, it would be nice to see how each fighter would adapt from their last meeting. Would Silva actually WORK on having a bottom game? Has Sonnen continued to work on sub defense? Would Sonnen be able to take Silva to the ground as easily in the rematch? Looks like Sonnen at least has been working on submission attacks...since his choke of Stann was his first in 4 years.

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No one really deserves a fight with Silva. So like I already said' date=' Sonnen wins by default. No one in the division has done well over their past few fights, at least not well enough to warrant a title shot.[/quote']

 

How does he win by "default" when he beat silva for 4 1/2 rounds...

 

Its not like he was KOd or beaten badly.. he got caught in a sub

 

Thats when most immediate rematches should happen..

 

Either when someone was robbed a decision or 1 person was winning the whole fight and losses last minute.

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How does he win by "default" when he beat silva for 4 1/2 rounds...

 

Its not like he was KOd or beaten badly.. he got caught in a sub

 

Thats when most immediate rematches should happen..

 

Either when someone was robbed a decision or 1 person was winning the whole fight and losses last minute.

 

WTF?!?!?!

 

"Hey, you only won cause you made me tap or knocked me unconcious, let's fight to a decision in a rematch to see who the real champion is!"

 

Drugs are bad, M'kay?

 

BJ/Edgar = decision

Edgar/Maynard = decision

Shogun/Machida = decision

Garcia/Phan = decision

 

Need I go on?

 

Close enough only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

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WTF?!?!?!

 

"Hey' date=' you only won cause you made me tap or knocked me unconcious, let's fight to a decision in a rematch to see who the real champion is!"

 

Drugs are bad, M'kay?

 

BJ/Edgar = decision

Edgar/Maynard = decision

Shogun/Machida = decision

Garcia/Phan = decision

 

Need I go on?

 

Close enough only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.[/quote']

 

There's fights where there were immediate rematches and in most the other person won too...

 

One's i could think of off my head are..

 

Couture vs Belfort

 

EDIT : Tito vs Shamrock.

 

Cung Le vs Scott Smith ( perfect example here, Smith beat him at the very end and Cung le beat him the 2nd fight, first fight very similar to Sonnen Silva)

 

GSP vs Serra ( even though it wasn't immediate for GSP it was for Serra )

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There's fights where there were immediate rematches and the other person won too...

 

One's i could think of off my head are..

 

Couture vs Belfort

 

Cung Le vs Scott Smith ( perfect example here' date=' Smith beat him at the very end and Cung le beat him the 2nd fight, first fight very similar to Sonnen Silva)

 

GSP vs Serra ( even though it wasn't immediate for GSP it was for Serra )[/quote']

 

GSP/Serra was also cause there was no one else around that hadn't just lost

 

Belfort/Couture happened cause Vitor's glove cut Randy open

 

Le/Smith is a different situation, simply cause they aren't champions. When your a champion, you fight the top contender. If your a contender and your beaten, you move to the end of the line. Fortunately for Sonnen, the line is a small one. And like I've said before, Maia has done great since his match with Silva, if anything, he should have to fight Sonnen for the #1 spot.

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GSP/Serra was also cause there was no one else around that hadn't just lost

 

Belfort/Couture happened cause Vitor's glove cut Randy open

 

Le/Smith is a different situation' date=' simply cause they aren't champions. When your a champion, you fight the top contender. If your a contender and your beaten, you move to the end of the line. Fortunately for Sonnen, the line is a small one. And like I've said before, Maia has done great since his match with Silva, if anything, he should have to fight Sonnen for the #1 spot.[/quote']

 

maybe they would of done the maia sonnen fight but the problem is the best person maia beat as of late is Grove ( pre 136 )

 

Chael's run of Miller, Okami, Marquard is much much better competition. and now he adds brian stann to that list. You gotta give it to em for that you know. He's 4-1 in his last 5 fights and he was 1 minute from being 5-0 and the champ.

 

EDIT : On top of that Maia was obviously rushed into the title shot the first time...I think they want him to get more fights and experience before they give him another shot at Silva...He still isn't ready.

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maybe they would of done the maia sonnen fight but the problem is the best person maia beat as of late is Grove ( pre 136 )

 

Chael's run of Miller' date=' Okami, Marquard is much much better competition. and now he adds brian stann to that list. You gotta give it to em for that you know. He's 4-1 in his last 5 fights and he was 1 minute from being 5-0 and the champ.

 

EDIT : On top of that Maia was obviously rushed into the title shot the first time...I think they want him to get more fights and experience before they give him another shot at Silva...He still isn't ready.[/quote']

 

Um, Maia also beat Sonnen, which is kinda a big deal.

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Um' date=' Maia also beat Sonnen, which is kinda a big deal.[/quote']

 

Maynard beat Frankie and frankie got the first title shot...

 

It matters who you've beaten as of late and not if you were beaten by someone previously.

 

that was a couple fights ago and like i said Maia isn't ready and thats why they wont put him in contention yet...

 

 

Let me ask this..do you think Sonnen has any chance of beating Silva?

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A few tidbits and thoughts....

 

First' date=' as has been said, who else is worth putting against Silva? Answer : no one.

 

Second, there are a lot of reasons why a rematch is compelling. Would Silva dominate without the "broken rib"? Would Sonnen suddenly look sloppy and weak without elevated testosterone? Would Sonnen fall victim to a last-minute sub again?

(Personally, I think no to all. I think Silva's rib was broken by Sonnen's knee to the ribs, Sonnen's testosterone levels were within natural ranges even though they were near the higher end, and Sonnen was very near to breaking loose from the triangle)

 

Third, someone was talking as if wanting to see a rematch disrespects the martial art of BJJ. No, it does not. Silva managed to get a triangle on Sonnen, but was unable to control Sonnen from countering the choke and barely managed to put enough pressure on Sonnen's arm to get a tap. The rest of the fight Silva managed to do very little to contain, control, or counter Sonnen's top game. Had Silva put on a BJJ clinic and actually had a grappling battle that was at all indicitive of a BJJ black belt, sure, it might be insulting.

 

Fourth, it would be nice to see how each fighter would adapt from their last meeting. Would Silva actually WORK on having a bottom game? Has Sonnen continued to work on sub defense? Would Sonnen be able to take Silva to the ground as easily in the rematch? Looks like Sonnen at least has been working on submission attacks...since his choke of Stann was his first in 4 years.[/quote']

 

1. Basically the main argument for the rematch doesnt mean he deserved it tho

 

2. This information is kind of irrelvent Silva still won, still champ, still finished. Sonnen still lost, still only a contender, needs to climb ladder

 

3. Does that matter, he finished the sub which is the point and got the W with it. Thats as real and as conclusive a victory as possible. How does that ending deserve a rematch??? Thats what makes the sport beautiful (unpredictabilty). Also the sub was a good one, sonnen himself said he was about to go out. You are right about the rest of it tho.

 

4. Good/interesting point but lets not forget that Silva is 37 Id like for him to keep fighting new guys so after he retires we can say there was no one he didnt beat during his time. This is a matter of opinion and preference and is not really a reason for a rematch tho.

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Maynard beat Frankie and frankie got the first title shot...

 

It matters who you've beaten as of late and not if you were beaten by someone previously.

 

that was a couple fights ago and like i said Maia isn't ready and thats why they wont put him in contention yet...

 

Okay, and recently, Sonnen has faced all of ONE person since his last title shot, Brain Stann!!!

 

Fights before your title shot, which you lost, don't count towards a future title shot.

 

And you're talking out your rear. Maia was 12-1 before getting a title shot, one in which he wasn't even the real contender! He beats OMG Chael Sonnen, the same Dan Miller that Sonnen beat, former contender Nate Quarry.

 

And Maynard was beating the better comp than Edgar, he got snuffed for a shot because of his style

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Okay' date=' and recently, Sonnen has faced all of ONE person since his last title shot, Brain Stann!!!

 

Fights before your title shot, which you lost, don't count towards a future title shot.

 

And you're talking out your rear. Maia was 12-1 before getting a title shot, one in which he wasn't even the real contender! He beats OMG Chael Sonnen, the same Dan Miller that Sonnen beat, former contender Nate Quarry.

 

And Maynard was beating the better comp than Edgar, he got snuffed for a shot because of his style[/quote']

 

to me its about who they fought and how they fought... with that said i think sonnen deserves it..

 

Im not talking out my ***. stick to the facts instead of trying to insult me.

 

 

Btw , there's no definite sure answer to this question its, all speculation. Im just stating my opinion.

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Your looking at who deserves a shot by their record ...

 

to me its about who they fought and how they fought... with that said i think sonnen deserves it..

 

Im not talking out my *** stick to the facts instead of trying to insult me.

 

Your record is based on who you fought...

 

Chael lost his first fight to Maia, then beat 3 people, 1 whom Maia also beat. And he WENT TO DECISION, so much for "how he fought". And now, Sonnen has only one fight, one victory, where as Maia already had won a couple of fights. Maia now has 4 fights, 3 wins, and he should have to fight Sonnen for a title shot

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Your record is based on who you fought...

 

Chael lost his first fight to Maia' date=' then beat 3 people, 1 whom Maia also beat. And he WENT TO DECISION, so much for "how he fought". And now, Sonnen has only one fight, one victory, where as Maia already had won a couple of fights. Maia now has 4 fights, 3 wins, and he should have to fight Sonnen for a title shot[/quote']

 

Yea i realized what i wrote sort of contradicted itself ...i edited ( not in time though :D)

 

Do you actually want Maia to fight for a title shot again so soon?

As a fan of his as well i certainly don't. He still needs a couple more fights so he can work on his striking. He looked very sloppy against Santiago imo. Prob get crushed by silva a 2nd go around.

 

Do you think Chael has a chance at beating silva?

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Yea i realized what i wrote sort of contradicted itself ...i edited ( not in time though :D)

 

Do you actually want Maia to fight for a title shot again so soon?

As a fan of his as well i certainly don't. He still needs a couple more fights so he can work on his striking. He looked very sloppy against Santiago imo. Prob get crushed by silva a 2nd go around.

 

Do you think Chael has a chance at beating silva?

 

It's not about what I want, it's about what who deserves. Chael lost a fight to the champion, then wins a fight, and gets another match? Makes 0 sense.

 

It is MMA, so anything could happen

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It's not about what I want' date=' it's about what who deserves. Chael lost a fight to the champion, then wins a fight, and gets another match? Makes 0 sense.

 

It is MMA, so anything could happen[/quote']

 

Not everything is black and white.

 

I think the situation that they were in warrant's another shot. Its too bad there wasn't a better contender to face out there other than stann because if there was i don't think we would be having this conversation.

 

Its not Chael's fault that the MW division is weak atm.

 

Look how many people coming off a title loss gets right back into a contender match..

 

Shogun, Machida, BJ Penn, Lesnar x2 ( vs JDS before he got sick again and when he first became champ), Kenflo vs Maynard for title shot then 2 fights later he fighting Aldo....etc.

 

This stuff happens all the time but your not arguing for them . I just think you have a bias against chael. I certainly have a bias for him as well but im trying to look at it as objectively as possible.

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Question above

 

NOT TRYIN TO TROLL OR HATE JUST A CALM CONVERSATION

 

I dont think he does and heres why' date=' he lost decisvely, by submission. Yes he was beating on Anderson for 4.5 rounds and he is the only guy to test Anderson but does that constitute a rematch no, he still lost. The premise for this argument is the [b']he was winning before he lost, he looked good before he got beat[/b]. This rematch is IMO kind of insulting to bjj, its a legit finish and thats its point to use technique over strength. Just cause the other guy was winning before he lost shouldnt lead to a rematch. Do you know how many rematches that would be wt??? Thats the nature of the sport its what makes it epic and fun. Its not about how long you had the higher score its about who won at the end, Silva did. I think two more fights maybe then Chael should be good to go, Brains weakness to wrestlers is well documented. If they do fight and Chael can do what he did in the first fight and avoid the sub then ya he would beat Silva but thats something else entirely.

 

That is a well thought out, constructive, legitimate argument for why Sonnen shouldn't get a rematch.

 

Here's my retort:

 

Money.

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Not everything is black and white.

 

I think the situation that they were in warrant's another shot. Its too bad there wasn't a better contender to face out there other than stann because if there was i don't think we would be having this conversation.

 

Its not Chael's fault that the MW division is weak atm.

 

Look how many people coming off a title loss gets right back into a contender match..

 

Shogun' date=' Machida, BJ Penn, Lesnar x2 ( vs JDS before he got sick again and when he first became champ), Kenflo vs Maynard for title shot then 2 fights later he fighting Aldo....

 

This stuff happens all the time but your not arguing for them . I just think you have a bias against chael. I certainly have a bias for him as well but im trying to look at it as objectively as possible.[/quote']

 

The situation? You mean where Silva submitted him?

 

I know it's not Sonnen's fault, that's why I'm saying he wins by default. He hasn't earned anything, other than respect for what he did. But that doesn't mean he gets it. You earn a shot by beating fighters, and he's only beaten Stann on this new stint.

 

Shogun got a title shot, then a rematch cause on controversy. Machida never got a second title shot. BJ Penn got a rematch cause of some controversy. Lesnar is just Dana's cash cow.

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you can make all the reasons in the world about how chael doesnt deserve this, but he will get it, and that is 100%. why? its all about what people want to see

 

 

demian maia got ruined by silva. belfort got ruined by silva. okami got ruined. who else is there?

 

this sport is all about what fans want to see, and that is defined by certain things. the fans dont want to see any of these guys again anytime soon. why? they got smashed. unless we see these guys come back reinvented and destroy some people its not intriguing. we feel like we know whats going to happen.

 

thats why fitch can win 10 fights in a row but until he smashes a couple of people badly no one cares to see him against gsp again no matter how much he may logically deserve it. gsp destroyed him and hes still the same fighter

 

thats why no one wants to see edgar penn 3. thats why people DID want to see rashad and jones...rashad comes back and puts on a fantastic performance...well now it just got intriguing. we all know hes elite so we dont need to be sold if hes a big enough name, but thats the nature of the hype behind what we want to see

 

so for chael, not only was he whipping andersons ***....and you can say he was on steroids, anderson was hurt, bla bla bla.....heres the simple fact....a whole lot of people saw chael whip his *** for the entire fight and lose a heartbreaker, and thats what gets remembered.

 

and now hes back and he just whipped a guys *** who people were saying could beat him or at least give him a hard time. chael was already the guy who "just about did it" which really is enough for a rematch right there, and now he just came back and put on a crazy performance

 

hes getting that rematch 100% ill delete my account if im wrong

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The situation? You mean where Silva submitted him?

 

I know it's not Sonnen's fault' date=' that's why I'm saying he wins by default. He hasn't earned anything, other than respect for what he did. But that doesn't mean he gets it. You earn a shot by beating fighters, and he's only beaten Stann on this new stint.

 

Shogun got a title shot, then a rematch cause on controversy. Machida never got a second title shot. BJ Penn got a rematch cause of some controversy. Lesnar is just Dana's cash cow.[/quote']

 

To me he's the one person in the division who has the best chance of beating Silva...that alone is why i think he deserves it. Silva definitely always has the advantage but Sonnen has the best chance and style against him. Its not always about records sometimes its about styles.

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To me he's the one person in the division who has the best chance of beating Silva...that alone is why i think he deserves it. Silva definitely always has the advantage but Sonnen has the best chance and style against him. Its not always about records sometimes its about styles.

 

But that doesn't merit a title shot, that's what you don't get. It's about what you've done. That's like saying some guy who never fought in the UFC, but could kick Silva's *** should get an instant title shot.

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But that doesn't merit a title shot' date=' that's what you don't get. It's about what you've done. That's like saying some guy who never fought in the UFC, but could kick Silva's *** should get an instant title shot.[/quote']

 

not really because before they fought i didnt really give Sonnen the time of day just based on who Silva is...

 

Same with GSP yea everyone jumps on the new contenders hype train but in the end GSP wins convincingly

 

Difference with sonnen is he has fought Silva before and he's shown he has the skills to beat him. Something No1 in the division who has already fought silva has shown...including Maia.

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not really because before they fought i didnt really give Sonnen the time of day just based on who Silva is...

 

Same with GSP yea everyone jumps on the new contenders hype train but in the end GSP wins convincingly

 

Difference with sonnen is he has fought Silva before and he's shown he has the skills to beat him. Something No1 in the division who has already fought silva has shown...including Maia.

 

Again, showing you can beat someone doesn't merit a title shot. If you can't fathom that, may god have mercy on your soul

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