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ATHEISTS AND THEISTS!!! Prove to me that aliens don't exist...


Kevbo_Jones

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Specifically for a few posters that want to post insane hyperboles. Prove to me that they don't and havent interacted with primitive man.

 

 

Do it now!

 

There is alot of confusion on how debates go. If you assert that aliens exist, then you have the burden of proof. You can't prove that anything doesn't exist (I am sure thats the point of this thread, but I will play along).

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:eek: no you didnt

 

Yes. I did!

 

There are 362 verses in the bible of natural and manmade objects. Whether one believes that these objects are actually vehicles that the god of the bible lives in, appears with, travels in, and is considered the seat of his power is a matter of opinion. The fact that they do not appear without him, or his ambassadors, and that in most major appearances, he and other beings are are clearly described as being associated with these flying objects, is undeniable.

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~God is ET~

 

And in regards to the thread starter, every God believer is also a believer in aliens. God, if such a thing/person exists, is an extraterrestrial (i.e. did not originate from earth). I know this is not in line with the original topic, but I do not believe the actual intent of your thread is as you state it to be. If I am incorrect please forgive my skepticism ;)

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~God is ET~

 

And in regards to the thread starter' date=' every God believer is also a believer in aliens. God, if such a thing/person exists, is an extraterrestrial (i.e. did not originate from earth). I know this is not in line with the original topic, but I do not believe the actual intent of your thread is as you state it to be. If I am incorrect please forgive my skepticism ;)[/quote']

 

You hit the nail on the head. I often see believers of different denominations deny ET existence but accept their god. They truely are one in the same. I also pose the question to atheists because there is actual real world evidence of said beings.

 

The main difference being that god, or any that preceeded the the current gods weren't supernatural, celestial beings. But were in fact, living, organic beings.

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You hit the nail on the head. I often see believers of different denominations deny ET existence but accept their god. They truely are one in the same. I also pose the question to atheists because there is actual real world evidence of said beings.

 

The main difference being that god' date=' or any that preceeded the the current gods weren't supernatural, celestial beings. But were in fact, living, organic beings.[/quote']

 

 

I am a little confused with your second point. Even if God is supernatural in nature, it/he/she would still be extraterrestrial. It/He/She would also be extranatural, but that is a different point altogether. And of course this argument necessitates a belief in that which is apart from the natural. I see no evidence for this.

 

On the point of real world evidence regarding ETs playing a role in human development, I have yet to see it.

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I am a little confused with your second point. Even if God is supernatural in nature' date=' it/he/she would still be extraterrestrial. It/He/She would also be extranatural, but that is a different point altogether. And of course this argument necessitates a belief in that which is apart from the natural. I see no evidence for this.

 

On the point of real world evidence regarding ETs playing a role in human development, I have yet to see it.[/quote']

 

Have you seen any planes Lockheed and Martin have made?

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Have you seen any planes Lockheed and Martin have made?

 

~P-791~

 

I am only familiar with this particular design (a friend showed it to me once, very cool aircraft imo) and while yes it looks like the depictions of UFO's that people have related in drawings, I fail to see how this is relevant to the notion that ET's have fiddled with human history.

 

Are you suggesting that it is beyond our current technological capabilities to produce such a craft? Perhaps you can elaborate for me as I have no extensive knowledge on such things?

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~P-791~

 

I am only familiar with this particular design (a friend showed it to me once' date=' very cool aircraft imo) and while yes it looks like the depictions of UFO's that people have related in drawings, I fail to see how this is relevant to the notion that ET's have fiddled with human history.

 

Are you suggesting that it is beyond our current technological capabilities to produce such a craft? Perhaps you can elaborate for me as I have no extensive knowledge on such things?[/quote']

 

Dr. Ben R. Rich former Lockheed Skunk Works director confirmed:

 

1. There are 2 types of UFOs -- the ones we build and ones 'they' build. We learned from both crash retrievals and actual "hand-me-downs." The Government knew and until 1969 took an active hand in the administration of that information. After a 1969 Nixon "purge", administration was handled by an international board of directors in the private sector?

 

2. Nearly all "biomorphic" aerospace designs were inspired by the Roswell spacecraft -- from Kelly's SR-71 Blackbird onward to today's drones, UCAVs, and aerospace craft?

 

3. It was Ben Rich's opinion that the public should not be told [about UFOs and extraterrestrials] . He believed they could not handle the truth -- ever. Only in the last months of his decline did he begin to feel that the "international corporate board of directors" dealing with the "Subject" could represent a bigger problem to citizens' personal freedoms under the United States Constitution than the presence of off-world visitors themselves.?

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What he said might be new to many people today, but he revealed the information before his death in January 1995. His statements helped to give credence to reports that the U.S. military has been flying vehicles that mimic alien craft.

 

The article was written by Tom Keller, an aerospace engineer who has worked as a computer systems analyst for NASA?s Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

 

1 : ?Inside the Skunk Works (Lockheed?s secret research and development entity), we were a small, intensely cohesive group consisting of about fifty veteran engineers and designers and a hundred or so expert machinists and shop workers. Our forte was building technologically advanced airplanes of small number and of high class for highly secret missions.?

 

2 : ?We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects, and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity. Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do.?

 

3 : ?We now have the technology to take ET home. No, it won?t take someone?s lifetime to do it. There is an error in the equations. We know what it is. We now have the capability to travel to the stars. First, you have to understand that we will not get to the stars using chemical propulsion. Second, we have to devise a new propulsion technology. What we have to do is find out where Einstein went wrong.?

 

4 : When Rich was asked how UFO propulsion worked, he said, ?Let me ask you. How does ESP work?? The questioner responded with, ?All points in time and space are connected?? Rich then said, ?That?s how it works!?

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Dr. Ben R. Rich former Lockheed Skunk Works director confirmed:

 

1. There are 2 types of UFOs -- the ones we build and ones 'they' build. We learned from both crash retrievals and actual "hand-me-downs." The Government knew and until 1969 took an active hand in the administration of that information. After a 1969 Nixon "purge"' date=' administration was handled by an international board of directors in the private sector?

 

2. Nearly all "biomorphic" aerospace designs were inspired by the Roswell spacecraft -- from Kelly's SR-71 Blackbird onward to today's drones, UCAVs, and aerospace craft?

 

3. It was Ben Rich's opinion that the public should not be told [about UFOs and extraterrestrials'] . He believed they could not handle the truth -- ever. Only in the last months of his decline did he begin to feel that the "international corporate board of directors" dealing with the "Subject" could represent a bigger problem to citizens' personal freedoms under the United States Constitution than the presence of off-world visitors themselves.?

 

~Article~

 

I realize that I am pushing, but may I request a link to an article that verifies the claims regarding Ben Rich and his comments. Specifically the idea of him withholding evidence of UFOs for the safety of the public. Is there maybe a recording of him saying such things?

 

Secondly on your first point "they" is quite ambiguous, perhaps the hand-me-downs were from Russians or some other foreign nation?

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~Article~

 

I realize that I am pushing' date=' but may I request a link to an article that verifies the claims regarding Ben Rich and his comments. Specifically the idea of him withholding evidence of UFOs for the safety of the public. Is there maybe a recording of him saying such things?

 

Secondly on your first point "they" is quite ambiguous, perhaps the hand-me-downs were from Russians or some other foreign nation?[/quote']

 

The actual transcript from the interview is in the May 2010 issue of the MUFON UFO Journal. It is copyrighted, so I can't post you the actual article without paying for it. Since it would fall on deaf ears, that is not a wise investment. i doubt that I would be able to track you down a recording(if there is one) due to the information contained in the interview.

 

I know that probably gives you ammunition to discredit all that I'm saying, but I can provide a different video recorded interview with Lockheed's lead development engineer Boyd Bushman and a few others, namely Bob Lazar(although he has some sketchy disinformation floating around about his past, built a particle accelerator in his backyard and had knowledge of element 115 before it was "discovered"), who have been reverse engineering these crafts, but you must be willing to give up 45 minutes of your life to hear things that are mind blowing.(that is if you're a physics nerd, or just have a general interest in aviation)

 

Also, I'm pretty sure he is explictly talking about ET's when he says "they." The actual quote is in reference to the "did the Roswell incident actually happen?"

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The actual transcript from the interview is in the May 2010 issue of the MUFON UFO Journal. It is copyrighted' date=' so I can't post you the actual article without paying for it. Since it would fall on deaf ears, that is not a wise investment. i doubt that I would be able to track you down a recording(if there is one) due to the information contained in the interview.

 

I know that probably gives you ammunition to discredit all that I'm saying, but I can provide a different video recorded interview with Lockheed's lead development engineer Boyd Bushman and a few others, namely Bob Lazar(although he has some sketchy disinformation floating around about his past, built a particle accelerator in his backyard and had knowledge of element 115 before it was "discovered"), who have been reverse engineering these crafts, but you must be willing to give up 45 minutes of your life to hear things that are mind blowing.(that is if you're a physics nerd, or just have a general interest in aviation)

 

Also, I'm pretty sure he is explictly talking about ET's when he says "they." The actual quote is in reference to the "did the Roswell incident actually happen?"[/quote']

 

You can post the article and provide citation. Furthermore, I don't know that a magazine dedicated to UFO's is considered a reliable source.

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You can post the article and provide citation. Furthermore' date=' I don't know that a magazine dedicated to UFO's is considered a reliable source.[/quote']

 

Why not? That's pretty ignorant. Its an internationally known organization. Maybe you should research them before you bash them, and no, he asked for the original article. Not a reprint.

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The actual transcript from the interview is in the May 2010 issue of the MUFON UFO Journal. It is copyrighted' date=' so I can't post you the actual article without paying for it. Since it would fall on deaf ears, that is not a wise investment. i doubt that I would be able to track you down a recording(if there is one) due to the information contained in the interview.

 

I know that probably gives you ammunition to discredit all that I'm saying, but I can provide a different video recorded interview with Lockheed's lead development engineer Boyd Bushman and a few others, namely Bob Lazar(although he has some sketchy disinformation floating around about his past, built a particle accelerator in his backyard and had knowledge of element 115 before it was "discovered"), who have been reverse engineering these crafts, but you must be willing to give up 45 minutes of your life to hear things that are mind blowing.(that is if you're a physics nerd, or just have a general interest in aviation)

 

Also, I'm pretty sure he is explictly talking about ET's when he says "they." The actual quote is in reference to the "did the Roswell incident actually happen?"[/quote']

 

~Skepticism~

 

Do not spend money by any means, this is just a forum after all. I am, however, a bit disheartened that you would automatically assume that such an article would fall on "deaf ears" as you put it. Yes, I am very skeptical of your claims, but I would not dismiss this simply off hand. Extraordinary claims after all require extraordinary evidence.

 

Feel free to provide a link to your video. I cannot promise to provide insight on Physics, however, as I lack such knowledge. However, I can promise that I will eventually get around to watching said video.

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~Skepticism~

 

Do not spend money by any means' date=' this is just a forum after all. I am, however, a bit disheartened that you would automatically assume that such an article would fall on "deaf ears" as you put it. Yes, I am very skeptical of your claims, but I would not dismiss this simply off hand. Extraordinary claims after all require extraordinary evidence.

 

Feel free to provide a link to your video. I cannot promise to provide insight on Physics, however, as I lack such knowledge. However, I can promise that I will eventually get around to watching said video.[/quote']

 

Here is a parsed version of the Boyd Bushman interview. A bit shorter at 19 minutes.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3874568473252816241#

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Why not? That's pretty ignorant. Its an internationally known organization. Maybe you should research them before you bash them' date=' and no, he asked for the original article. Not a reprint.[/quote']

 

I am just saying that an orgainzation thats main focus is ET's will have an invested interest in maintaining that ETs are visiting the planet. They need people to believe, so they can keep selling magazine subscriptions. If they found out that all of these stories about UFO's were false and they were just aircraft, do you think they would report it? they would be out of a job. I guess your your right. I must be really ignorant to think that they would try to preserve their jobs and keep the cash flow coming in. :rolleyes:

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I am just saying that an orgainzation thats main focus is ET's will have an invested interest in maintaining that ETs are visiting the planet. They need people to believe' date=' so they can keep selling magazine subscriptions. If they found out that all of these stories about UFO's were false and they were just aircraft, do you think they would report it? they would be out of a job. I guess your your right. I must be really ignorant to think that they would try to preserve their jobs and keep the cash flow coming in. :rolleyes:[/quote']

 

Wrong. Their main focus is UFOs. Two completely different topics that sometimes intertwine.

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Wrong. Their main focus is UFOs. Two completely different topics that sometimes intertwine.

 

I know the literal definition. However, people are not buying the magazines because they think the UFO is a hot air baloon, they are buying because they think it could be an alien spacecraft. Stop mincing words.

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I know the literal definition. However' date=' people are not buying the magazines because they think the UFO is a hot air baloon, they are buying because they think it could be an alien spacecraft. Stop mincing words.[/quote']

 

Calm down fella. If I'm going to be put under a microscope, so will everyone else's responses. No hard feelings.

 

On topic, can you prove that some of them aren't in fact, alien spacecraft? If you watched the parse I posted earlier you will notice that Boyd doesn't acknowledge the alien piece but explicitly talks about Roswell and a crash that netted them the ability to reverse engineer a saucer. He also never denies it either. I would have to assume for safety, financial, and proprietary reasons.

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The bible says that only the only beings created with intelligence are angels' date=' humans and animals.

 

Therefor, E.T. don't exist.

 

You used your biased sources, I use mine :).[/quote']

 

Why assume then that angels and aliens aren't one and the same? This ultimately doesn't threaten religion or alienology. And I'm pretty sure the Bible mentions multiple spheres of heaven and creatures therein. Numerous other religious scriptures certainly do. Typically, one of these spheres/realms is referenced as where the stars are located, meaning the various suns, solar systems, & thus planets in the universe. Religious texts are very much open to beings throughout the universe.

 

Also, where do the Nefilim mentioned in Genesis fit in with your beliefs? You know.. the cross-breed between the "sons of God" and the daughters of men?

 

What were those cool flying machines that Ezekiel witnessed the 4 angels come down in?

 

Your biased sources are actually some of the best evidence for the existence of aliens (non-earth beings). :D

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Why assume then that angels and aliens aren't one and the same? This ultimately doesn't threaten religion or alienology. And I'm pretty sure the Bible mentions multiple spheres of heaven and creatures therein. Numerous other religious scriptures certainly do. Typically' date=' one of these spheres/realms is referenced as where the stars are located, meaning the various suns, solar systems, & thus planets in the universe. Religious texts are very much open to beings throughout the universe.

 

Also, where do the Nefilim mentioned in Genesis fit in with your beliefs? You know.. the cross-breed between the "sons of God" and the daughters of men?

 

What were those cool flying machines that Ezekiel witnessed the 4 angels come down in?

 

Your biased sources are actually some of the best evidence for the existence of aliens (non-earth beings). :D[/quote']

 

Pretty much this...

 

If you're(religious folks) are going to nitpick, angels do not have genitalia, correct? So how is it they could interbreed with human women? What about the book of enoch? Why was it stricken from biblical record?

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Calm down fella. If I'm going to be put under a microscope' date=' so will everyone else's responses. No hard feelings.

 

On topic, can you prove that some of them aren't in fact, alien spacecraft? If you watched the parse I posted earlier you will notice that Boyd doesn't acknowledge the alien piece but explicitly talks about Roswell and a crash that netted them the ability to reverse engineer a saucer. He also never denies it either. I would have to assume for safety, financial, and proprietary reasons.[/quote']

 

It's cool. If you are asserting that alens exist, you have the burden of proof. Obviously, I can't disprove the existance of Santa, The Easter Bunny, or aliens.

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Right... Because primitive tribes thousands of years ago had knowledge of planes' date=' flying crafts, and space suits before they knew what gravity, electricity, and propulsion flight were,,,[/quote']

 

by 'knowledge' do you mean imagination? even children have 'knowledge' of such things. also what is the proof of their 'knowledge'?

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by 'knowledge' do you mean imagination? even children have 'knowledge' of such things. also what is the proof of their 'knowledge'?

 

Children do not know precise coordinates of constellations from the ground. Try again. Those people didn't even have telescopes...

 

They also knew and wrote that we live in a heliocentric galaxy back before people accepted that the earth was round. Do some research.

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