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A problem GSP haters must reconcile with themselves...

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If GSP is so lacking, why hasnt anyone whom he has faced been able to take his belt away?

 

Lets just say, for the sake of argument, that the decisions tend to be in his favor for "X" reason. Ok, so, why hasnt anyone been able to sub or ko him? The answer is quite evident; either none of his opponents have the ability to, or they too are just as guilty as he is of not putting it on the line and going for the kill.

 

 

Fact is, GSP might be more interested in playing it safe, but hes also clearly smart and talented enough to avoid being finished as well.

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If GSP is so lacking' date=' why hasnt anyone whom he has faced been able to take his belt away

 

[b']You mean aside from Serra I take it[/b]

 

Lets just say, for the sake of argument, that the decisions tend to be in his favor for "X" reason. Ok, so, why hasnt anyone been able to sub or ko him? The answer is quite evident; either none of his opponents have the ability to, or they too are just as guilty as he is of not putting it on the line and going for the kill.

 

 

Even if they don't have the ability to stop Georges, they are far more interested in trying and also, none of his opponents have ever tried to call themselves the "Michael Jordan of MMA" while playing it safe and never finishing

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i agree' date=' all his opponents have been one-dimensional and arnt good enough to take it to GSP.[/quote']

 

^^ THIS, they keep giving him 1 dimensional fighters... or lightweights.

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Even if they don't have the ability to stop Georges' date=' they are far more interested in trying and also, none of his opponents have ever tried to call themselves the "Michael Jordan of MMA" while playing it safe and never finishing[/quote']

 

To your first point, so what if they are more interested in trying to finish him? That fact that they have all failed only proves he is the better man.

 

To your second point, so what if he boasts about himself? Hes the champ, thats his prerogative to do so, and the fact that he remains the champ gives him those bragging rights.

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^^ THIS' date=' they keep giving him 1 dimensional fighters... or lightweights.[/quote']

 

 

Interesting point! As GSP himself has pointed out - hes not the best at any one particular aspect of the game; he prides himself on being the best at putting it all together.

 

Maybe the real problem is is that too many other fighters arent as well rounded as he is?

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Interesting point! As GSP himself has pointed out - hes not the best at any one particular aspect of the game; he prides himself on being the best at putting it all together.

 

Maybe the real problem is is that too many other fighters arent as well rounded as he is?

 

yup. Condit is gonna be his first real MMA fight

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i agree' date=' all his opponents have been one-dimensional and arnt good enough to take it to GSP.[/quote']

 

Matt Hughes, Matt Serra, Jake Shields, Sean Sherk, Bj Penn are all former champions...who would the guy have to beat gain your respect? you cant face tougher competition than the champ or former champs, so what else can he do??

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To your first point' date=' so what if they are more interested in trying to finish him? That fact that they have all failed only proves he is the better man.

 

[b']To your second point, so what if he boasts about himself? Hes the champ, thats his prerogative to do so, and the fact that he remains the champ gives him those bragging rights.[/b]

 

It takes two to tango(GSP and his opponent)

 

regarding the bolded part...

 

meh ;)

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Matt Hughes' date=' Matt Serra, Jake Shields, Sean Sherk, Bj Penn are all former champions...who would the guy have to beat gain your respect? you cant face tougher competition than the champ or former champs, so what else can he do??[/quote']

 

Three of those guys are lightweights, Hughes was aging and one dimensional, and Shields is a grappler who is much better suited for middleweight.

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Three of those guys are lightweights' date=' Hughes was aging and one dimensional, and Shields is a grappler who is much better suited for middleweight.[/quote']

 

I agree...GSP is a much superior fighter than all those guys, but they are the best the world had to offer him at that time, and he beat them all. You cant blame GSP if The next best guy for him to fight isnt on his level.

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Three of those guys are lightweights' date=' Hughes was aging and one dimensional, and Shields is a grappler who is much better suited for middleweight.[/quote']

 

So, he didnt beat them because he was good, he beat them because they sucked??? :confused:

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I agree...GSP is a much superior fighter than all those guys' date=' but they are the best the world had to offer him at that time, and he beat them all. You cant blame GSP if The next best guy for him to fight isnt on his level.[/quote']

 

You CAN blame him for greasing up to fight his actual challenges in BJ and Hughes

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I agree...GSP is a much superior fighter than all those guys' date=' but they are the best the world had to offer him at that time, and he beat them all. You cant blame GSP if The next best guy for him to fight isnt on his level.[/quote']

 

Kinda like what Forrest said about Anderson - its not that the middleweight division, sucks, its just that Anderson is unbeatable.

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Now your resorting to excuses...and there is no proof he actually greased. Some guys just get excessively sweaty and slippery.

 

6a00d8349f951869e20105370efe19970b-800wi

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Three of those guys are lightweights' date=' Hughes was aging and one dimensional, and [b']Shields is a grappler who is much better suited for middleweight.[/b]

 

Bold makes no sense.

Very rarely can one say a fighter would do better at a higher weight class unless they've repeatedly had issues cutting weight at a lower one. Shields hasn't had that problem, so that is out.

You could've tried to argue in the past that a fighter would do better moving if the weight class he was moving to had less talent than the one he was in. MW has been weak historically, but UFC MW division is getting more and more stacked, especially with good grapplers. (Maia, Palhares, Belfort, Okami, Sonnen)

The real reason Shields has been at MW before was so he didn't compete against Nick Diaz. Now that Nick is "retired" Shields has no reason to move to MW unless Melendez comes to UFC and Nate bumps up to WW so none of them compete against each other.

 

So your opinion is a load of crap.

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yup. Condit is gonna be his first real MMA fight

 

Will you give him credit if he beats Carlos then? ;) Cause I know a bunch of folk who never will... the minute GSP beats someone, that someone becomes a "can" on these boards...

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6a00d8349f951869e20105370efe19970b-800wi

 

I'm sorry, but I fail to see any sign of a "greasing agent" present...

 

anyhoo....lets pretend he was "uber extra slippery" during that fight, is it really your contention that baby jay was unable to ko gsp due to him being slippery? How does that explain GSP beating him twice?

 

Again, the question you must reconcile within yourself is why your hypothesis fails in light of all the facts.

 

I know it, you know it, but why are you unable to admit it?

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Will you give him credit if he beats Carlos then? ;) Cause I know a bunch of folk who never will... the minute GSP beats someone' date=' that someone becomes a "can" on these boards...[/quote']

 

Truth

 

 

GSP has beaten the best of the WW div, both grapplers and strikers alike. This speaks volumes about what hes doing right and what everyone else is doing wrong.

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Bold makes no sense.

Very rarely can one say a fighter would do better at a higher weight class unless they've repeatedly had issues cutting weight at a lower one. Shields hasn't had that problem' date=' so that is out.

You could've tried to argue in the past that a fighter would do better moving if the weight class he was moving to had less talent than the one he was in. MW has been weak historically, but UFC MW division is getting more and more stacked, especially with good grapplers. (Maia, Palhares, Belfort, Okami, Sonnen)

The real reason Shields has been at MW before was so he didn't compete against Nick Diaz. Now that Nick is "retired" Shields has no reason to move to MW unless Melendez comes to UFC and Nate bumps up to WW so none of them compete against each other.

 

So your opinion is a load of crap.[/quote']

 

Except for Shields dominating at middleweight, including an absolute beatdown of Dan ****ing Henderson and out grappling fellow ground specialist Mayhem Miller for five rounds.

 

At welterweight he looked both weaker and had much poorer cardio against middle of the road Martin Kampmann and gassed against GSP. So good for him that he didn't want to fight Diaz. Cool story. But he still looks much better at middleweight

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Except for Shields dominating at middleweight' date=' including an absolute beatdown of Dan ****ing Henderson and out grappling fellow ground specialist Mayhem Miller for five rounds.

 

At welterweight he looked both weaker and had much poorer cardio against middle of the road Martin Kampmann and gassed against GSP. So good for him that he didn't want to fight Diaz. Cool story. But he still looks much better at middleweight[/quote']

 

All of your rationalization for your argument is at best irrelevant, and for my argument pure win.

 

Shields FAILED to finish GSP, it doesnt matter why.

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anyhoo....lets pretend he was "uber extra slippery" during that fight' date=' is it really your contention that baby jay was unable to ko gsp due to him being slippery?[/quote']

 

Ah drats! The important part of the vaseline keeping GSP slippery against a BJJ blackbelt is how it effects the chances of a ko! How could I ever have missed that

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You CAN blame him for greasing up to fight his actual challenges in BJ and Hughes

 

you sir have obviously never been a champion....you do whatever you gotta do to win....im proud to say i have a room full of trophys and ive cheated to win every one of them. its that kind of drive and desire that makes champs. your delusional if you think GSP is the only cheater, and everybody he has fought has played by the rules %100. Everybody tries to gain an edge in every way possible. not too mention phil nurse is in the wrong there, not GSP...the fighter isnt responsible for working his own corners between rounds.

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All of your rationalization for your argument is at best irrelevant' date=' and for my argument pure win.

 

Shields FAILED to finish GSP, it doesnt matter why.[/quote']

 

Shrugged off with all the nuance of an arrogant fanboy. The whole fact of the matter is I even think GSP is a good... fighter? No.. Mixed martial artist, that's it.

 

But he's presented to be in the top two fighters P4P in the world when he can't finish an opponent in three years? Lost rounds standing to Jake "K1" Shields? Couldn't finish a half blind Koscheck?

 

GSP is a proven winner, but he'll never be a top fighter with his play it safe mentality.

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I'm sorry' date=' but I fail to see any sign of a "greasing agent" present...

 

anyhoo....lets pretend he was "uber extra slippery" during that fight, is it really your contention that baby jay was unable to ko gsp due to him being slippery? How does that explain GSP beating him twice?

[/quote']

 

did you even watch the first fight against Penn or did you just wiki that fact? the first fight could have easily went to Penn. Penn did more damage (visually) to gsp, than gsp did to Penn. gsp stood for most of this fight (probably cuz he thought he could).

 

the second fight gsp didn't want anything to do with Penn's standup and decided to tire Penn out by laying on top of him for 4 rounds. the vaseline played a large role as Penn was unable to utilize his "rubber guard".

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Will you give him credit if he beats Carlos then? ;) Cause I know a bunch of folk who never will... the minute GSP beats someone' date=' that someone becomes a "can" on these boards...[/quote']

 

Absolutely!

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you sir have obviously never been a champion....you do whatever you gotta do to win....im proud to say i have a room full of trophys and ive cheated to win every one of them. its that kind of drive and desire that makes champs. your delusional if you think GSP is the only cheater' date=' and everybody he has fought has played by the rules %100. Everybody tries to gain an edge in every way possible. not too mention phil nurse is in the wrong there, not GSP...the fighter isnt responsible for working his own corners between rounds.[/quote']

 

Pipe down there slugger, you're only hurting your side.

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Except for Shields dominating at middleweight' date=' including an absolute beatdown of Dan ****ing Henderson and out grappling fellow ground specialist Mayhem Miller for five rounds.

 

At welterweight he looked both weaker and had much poorer cardio against middle of the road Martin Kampmann and gassed against GSP. So good for him that he didn't want to fight Diaz. Cool story. But he still looks much better at middleweight[/quote']

 

 

Despite the fact we all know Shields will stay awake at night from nightmares of Jacare? And we're going to pretend Hendo has been working on his ground game for the past few years and not relying on his big right? Didn't see any signs of Shields gassing against GSP. Both fighters slowed down, but neither was gassed.

And you think he would fare better against any of the MWs I mentioned? There's a reason when he signed with UFC he went to WW and avoided the MW division, and it's not just Anderson Silva.

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Ah drats! The important part of the vaseline keeping GSP slippery against a BJJ blackbelt is how it effects the chances of a ko! How could I ever have missed that

 

 

wrong....it reflects just how desperate your attempts to excuse BJ's failure to win are.

 

GSP has defeated numerous opponents who are presumably superior on the ground - Hughes, Koscheck, Shields... GSP wasnt greased, BJ simply failed, like all the others, before and after him.

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did you even watch the first fight against Penn or did you just wiki that fact? the first fight could have easily went to Penn. Penn did more damage (visually) to gsp' date=' than gsp did to Penn. gsp stood for most of this fight (probably cuz he thought he could).

 

the second fight gsp didn't want anything to do with Penn's standup and decided to tire Penn out by laying on top of him for 4 rounds. the vaseline played a large role as Penn was unable to utilize his "rubber guard".[/quote']

 

Rubber guard relies on flexibility and is locked in using an arm and leg. It's not going to be vastly affected by a greasing agent. Penn looked pudgy and sluggish from trying to jump to 170 for this fight, one could reasonably deduct his agility likewise suffered from extra mass.

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Despite the fact we all know Shields will stay awake at night from nightmares of Jacare? And we're going to pretend Hendo has been working on his ground game for the past few years and not relying on his big right? Didn't see any signs of Shields gassing against GSP. Both fighters slowed down' date=' but neither was gassed.

And you think he would fare better against any of the MWs I mentioned? There's a reason when he signed with UFC he went to WW and avoided the MW division, and it's not just Anderson Silva.[/quote']

 

Well seeing as he already beat Okami I doubt he's too afraid of him. Maia is in the midst of being exposed as an above average at best grappler at best right now. Sonnen... I'm sure Jake Shields knows the triangle.

 

As for Palhares... I'll give you that one. Nobody in their right mind would want to fight that thing

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Shrugged off with all the nuance of an arrogant fanboy. The whole fact of the matter is I even think GSP is a good... fighter? No.. Mixed martial artist' date=' that's it.

 

But he's presented to be in the top two fighters P4P in the world when he can't finish an opponent in three years? Lost rounds standing to Jake "K1" Shields? Couldn't finish a half blind Koscheck?

 

GSP is a proven winner, but he'll never be a top [i']fighter[/i] with his play it safe mentality.

 

I fail to see any substantive argument from you. So far all you have offered is conjecture and excuses - no facts or logic.

 

The question at hand is NOT why is GSP undefeated, but rather, why hasnt anyone else been able to finish him? This is the question you consistently fail to answer.

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GSP wasnt greased' date=' BJ simply failed, like all the others, before and after him.[/quote']

 

You're aware that the NSAC has even acknowledged that GSP greased right? They just didn't punish him

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I knew you would ;) Which is what separates you and CaptainSuperman from the herd of blind haters around here.

 

well.. usually im just semi-trolling, especially when some posters want to say GSP is the p4p GOAT would smash Silva etc.

 

And besides the fighting LWs and stuff, the WWs he's beaten earned the shot for sure.. Then GSP goes and totally dominates them, so he deserves the credit where the credit is due

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did you even watch the first fight against Penn or did you just wiki that fact? the first fight could have easily went to Penn. Penn did more damage (visually) to gsp' date=' than gsp did to Penn. gsp stood for most of this fight (probably cuz he thought he could).

 

the second fight gsp didn't want anything to do with Penn's standup and decided to tire Penn out by laying on top of him for 4 rounds. the vaseline played a large role as Penn was unable to utilize his "rubber guard".[/quote']

 

Your opinion is of no value to me. I am only interested in facts, or at least plausible logic. Resting your case on some greasy fish tale & conjecture is at best laughable.

 

 

Forget BJ, GSP has fought numerous other contenders, all of whom failed, as BJ did. This is the big picture you fail to see.

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NSAC acknowledged that some vaseline was inappropriately transferred to his body. The fact he wasn't punished is because they didn't see any evidence that it was intentional, that there was no evidence there was a significant amount of vaseline applied, and because ultimately they deemed it did not have a significant impact on the outcome of the fight.

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You're aware that the NSAC has even acknowledged that GSP greased right? They just didn't punish him

 

Stay focused, young grasshopper - GSP is the champ and nobody has been able to finish him - why is that?

 

Oh, thats right, the ONLY ONE who stood a real chance at defeating GSP....EVER...was BJ!! :rolleyes:

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well.. usually im just semi-trolling' date=' especially when some posters want to say GSP is the p4p GOAT would smash Silva etc.

 

And besides the fighting LWs and stuff, the WWs he's beaten earned the shot for sure.. Then GSP goes and totally dominates them, so he deserves the credit where the credit is due[/quote']

 

I for one feel Silvia would manhandle GSP in a way not seen in the UFC...ever. This is why Dana will never allow the fight to happen.But then again, if Silvia were to move up to HW, i reckon he wouldnt last long either.GSP is simply the best suited fighter for the WW div, period.

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Stay focused' date=' young grasshopper - GSP is the champ and nobody has been able to finish him - why is that?

 

Oh, thats right, the ONLY ONE who stood a real chance at defeating GSP....EVER...was BJ!! :rolleyes:[/quote']

 

Well BJ was the fight where he was CAUGHT greasing. Video evidence and everything.

 

Before that ever happened, GSP was accused of greasing by four separate opponents on various occasions. The biggest challenges of his career are all pretty shady in that way.

 

Aside from those we have Koscheck, who never deserved that title shot. Dan Hardy, same even less so. Alves, a good win for GSP, and Shields who barely even tried grappling.

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Well BJ was the fight where he was CAUGHT greasing. Video evidence and everything.

 

Before that ever happened' date=' GSP was accused of greasing by four separate opponents on various occasions. The biggest challenges of his career are all pretty shady in that way.

 

Aside from those we have Koscheck, who never deserved that title shot. Dan Hardy, same even less so. Alves, a good win for GSP, and Shields who barely even tried grappling.[/quote']

 

Do you have any new arguments to try? 'cuz reading an endless parade of excuses is really becoming tiresome.

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Will you give him credit if he beats Carlos then? ;) Cause I know a bunch of folk who never will... the minute GSP beats someone' date=' that someone becomes a "can" on these boards...[/quote']

 

I agree

 

Also the minute GSP decisions someone, that someone becomes the "toughest" opponent he has ever faced and that's why he couldn't finish like he said he would

 

Just sayin

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yup. Condit is gonna be his first real MMA fight

 

lmao no

 

Condit is not well rounded, GSP will take him down and probably finish him or UD him

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Even if they don't have the ability to stop Georges' date=' they are far more interested in trying and also, none of his opponents have ever tried to call themselves the "Michael Jordan of MMA" while playing it safe and never finishing[/quote']

 

Gsp never said he's the michael jordan of mma. He said thats what he wants to be.

Get ur head out of ur ***.

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GSP is better than anyone at combining the disciplines which is why he can take his opponent out of their gameplan and into his. GSP is my favorite fighter, but I do want to see him fight like he used to. If you watch his fights from TKO or his early fights in the UFC he was a beast...and he still is...but I think he is so focused on the gameplan developed for him that he never strays from it; even when he has his opponent hurt. Look at the Shields fight...beautiful head kick and GSP resets instead of trying for a finish. Or against Kos he could have been throwing left hooks or the left leg to the body and head all night...one of them would have connected eventually as Kos couldn't see it coming. I believe GSP thinks too much inside the cage, he should just trust his ability and go after it.

 

i think Jackson is actually holding GSP back a bit with the gameplans. If you watch GSP train or have seen him on Sport Science, the guy is a freak. He is as strong and hits as hard as a LHW and many HW's, but he isn't using it.

 

I can understand where the frustration from so many fans comes from...you know the guy could absolutely destroy most of his opponents, especially after he wears them out in the first few rounds, but he stays so disciplined and doesn't go in for the kill.

 

I was really looking forward to the GSP/Diaz fight (thanks Carlos:mad:)...I was hoping with the bad blood, GSP might come out a lot more aggressive like he used to.

 

That being said, all he does is wins, but if he wants to have the legacy he is aspiring to, he needs to start putting guys to sleep.

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lmao no

 

Condit is not well rounded' date=' GSP will take him down and[b'] probably finish him[/b] or UD him

 

Why do people keep letting this utter nonsense flow out of there mouth

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