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Why I think Shogun Rua is the most overrated UFC fighter of ALL TIME


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Notice how I said UFC fighter. By this I mean fighter who actually fought for the UFC. Now if we looks at Shoguns career in the UFC, it makes him IMO the most overrated fighter of all time.

 

Lets look at Shogun's UFC career fight by fight.

 

Forrest Griffin- Shogun was heavly favored to win this fight. He was coming of a strong career in Pride and many considered him the best LH in the world. Griffin ended up finishing shogun. Shogun gassed and clearly lost both rounds.

 

Mark Coleman- Shogun then faced of against a 44 year old Mark Coleman who had not fought in over 2 years. Shogun's performance was horrible and he gassed. Yes, Shogun was out for a while too, but, come on, he had trouble against a 44 year old and out of shape Mark Coleman.

 

Chuck Liddell- Shogun knocked out Chuck Liddell, but then again, who hasn't

 

Lyoto Machida- Shogun then fought for the title against Lyoto Machida. Yes, Shogun put on a good performance, but I thought Machida had won the fight and the judges made the right call.

 

Lyoto Machida 2- Shogun won hand down. I will give him credit for this fight, he did good.

 

Jon Jones- Shogun got absolutly dominated by Jon Jones. He gassed........................................and TAPPED TO STRIKES

 

Forrest Griffin- Shogun then knocked out a unmotivated and out of shape Forrest.

 

Dan Henderson- While it was an exciting fight, Shogun lost....and gassed.

 

Brandon Vera- Shogun fought Brandon Vera, who was 1-3 in his last 4. With that one win being a very slim victory over a non-top 10 fighter. Despite Shogun being the heavy favorite again, Vera proved to be a HUGE challenge as Shogun gassed and was taken to the limit by Vera.

 

He has also ducked a fight against a better opponent in Gus.

 

If you really break it down fight by fight, Shogun Rua is IMO not even a top 5 LH fighter in the UFC.

 

Discuss and hate me.

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In no particular order.

 

Glover

Thiago Silva

Stanislav Nedkov

Machida

Rampage

Jon Pole

Hendo

Mr Wonderful

Bonnar

 

Hell' date=' I think 80% of the division as it stands could beat him right now, the way he looked against vera.[/quote']

 

lol. Glover Teixara beats an amazing kyle kingsbury and all of a sudden he's the next anderson silva. lezbe honest, Shogun would beat Teixara.

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Notice how I said UFC fighter. By this I mean fighter who actually fought for the UFC. Now if we looks at Shoguns career in the UFC' date=' it makes him IMO the most overrated fighter of all time.

 

Lets look at Shogun's UFC career fight by fight.

 

Forrest Griffin- Shogun was heavly favored to win this fight. He was coming of a strong career in Pride and many considered him the best LH in the world. Griffin ended up finishing shogun. Shogun gassed and clearly lost both rounds.

 

Mark Coleman- Shogun then faced of against a 44 year old Mark Coleman who had not fought in over 2 years. Shogun's performance was horrible and he gassed. Yes, Shogun was out for a while too, but, come on, he had trouble against a 44 year old and out of shape Mark Coleman.

 

Chuck Liddell- Shogun knocked out Chuck Liddell, but then again, who hasn't

 

Lyoto Machida- Shogun then fought for the title against Lyoto Machida. Yes, Shogun put on a good performance, but I thought Machida had won the fight and the judges made the right call.

 

Lyoto Machida 2- Shogun won hand down. I will give him credit for this fight, he did good.

 

Jon Jones- Shogun got absolutly dominated by Jon Jones. He gassed........................................and TAPPED TO STRIKES

 

Forrest Griffin- Shogun then knocked out a unmotivated and out of shape Forrest.

 

Dan Henderson- While it was an exciting fight, Shogun lost....and gassed.

 

Brandon Vera- Shogun fought Brandon Vera, who was 1-3 in his last 4. With that one win being a very slim victory over a non-top 10 fighter. Despite Shogun being the heavy favorite again, Vera proved to be a HUGE challenge as Shogun gassed and was taken to the limit by Vera.

 

He has also ducked a fight against a better opponent in Gus.

 

If you really break it down fight by fight, Shogun Rua is IMO not even a top 5 LH fighter in the UFC.

 

Discuss and hate me.[/quote']

 

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lol. Glover Teixara beats an amazing kyle kingsbury and all of a sudden he's the next anderson silva. lezbe honest' date=' Shogun would beat Teixara.[/quote']

 

I based that fight solely on conditioning and power. I think Glover is in better shape than Vera and Shogun and hits harder than Vera. Anyone with decent striking and decent cardio the other night would have beat shogun.

 

Lezbe honest.

 

I can't believe I left out Gus. I think he would roll him too. ;)

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All of Shogun's fights are entertaining as hell (win or lose) and he always fights to win. Those two things alone make him a great fighter in my eyes' date=' overrated or not he still deserves respect for all the great fights he has put on.[/quote']

 

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Shogun is not overrated in the least. He is simply wearing down physically at the end of a very hard fought career. On a given night, a well-conditioned Rua can beat ANY fighter in the division. That said, he doesn't seem to have the ability to train like he should to compete at an elite level anymore. The only reason he is still able to contend with top tier competitors is because of his chin, heart and determination. Even if his chances of making another title run are slim, he is still one of the most exciting fighters in the UFC.

 

And it is a little unfair to call someone overrated when you don't take into consideration the best years of their career.

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Shogun is not overrated in the least. He is simply wearing down physically at the end of a very hard fought career. On a given night' date=' a well-conditioned Rua can beat ANY fighter in the division[/b']. That said, he doesn't seem to have the ability to train like he should to compete at an elite level anymore. The only reason he is still able to contend with top tier competitors is because of his chin, heart and determination. Even if his chances of making another title run are slim, he is still one of the most exciting fighters in the UFC.

 

And it is a little unfair to call someone overrated when you don't take into consideration the best years of their career.

 

This argument is ridicules... Shogun is in the best shape he can push himself into for every fight.. He is just cursed with horrible cardio, and he is not able to do anything about it..

 

If we where to follow you argument we could also argue that he could get faster and stronger and better at everything... but then again, if he can then everyone can, and Shogun would again look bad..

 

Shogun was a destroyer in "old" MMA where the rules where not so strict and where the opponents where less well rounded... The only reason he bet Matchida and Chuck is that they do the same thing in every fight and Shogun's team gave hima good gameplan in both fights..

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Rua is not only a top 5 light heavy currently. He's a top 5 light heavy in terms of greatest 205ers to ever compete in MMA.

 

Some of you are so god damn stupid it's actually funny. Thanks for the laughs...

 

Better LHW of all time than Rua:

Chuck Liddell

Tito Ortiz

Randy Coture

Rich Franklin

Bas Rutten

Igor Vovchanchyn (ok, that might be a stretch, but I loved that guy...)

 

Better Active LHW than Rua

John Jones (Will be better all-time in a couple of years...)

Dan Henderson (Also better all-time...)

Alex Gustafsson

Rashad Evans

Lyoto Machida

 

All of theese of course imho...

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In no particular order.

 

Glover

Thiago Silva

Stanislav Nedkov

Machida

Rampage

Jon Pole

Hendo

Mr Wonderful

Bonnar

 

Hell' date=' I think 80% of the division as it stands could beat him right now, the way he looked against vera.[/quote']

 

I feel bad talking down on Shogun, but seeing what he once was, and seeing him now in his last fight...He might as well throw in the towel with a win. He won't be getting much more of them. I honestly think if he had a rematch with Machida, Shogun would get KTFO within the first 2 rounds.

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MMA fans are so stupid its redicuoulus. Shogun has beaten and KOed almost every fighter that ever meanth anything in LHW.

I dont know why someone should retire, when in the last three fights he won two by brutal knockouts and the one that many people agree, that could have been scored a draw, won a fight of the year award.

People have been doubting Shogun since he came in the UFC and yet he has beaten Machida who many tought was unbeatable, TWICE.

Did you know that Chuck was big favourite in their fight, and Shogun destroyed him. And after that fight Chuck suddenly became a bumm.

Yes Rua has cardio problems but that is the easiest thing to fix. It would be much worse if he would have to work on his skills instead of his cardio. Rua has an iron chin, KO power, huge hearth, and is extremly well rounded. That alone makes him better than 80 percent of the division.

If Rua connects he can KO anybody. I really cant bealive why someone who has been knocking people out and was never put to sleep, retire? Besides that, he is one win away from title shot and is in the top five in every ranking site!

If everyvone would end their carrer everytime the "fans" say so, the divison would only have Jones and Glover. Seriously some people are so retarded.

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The WHOLE division aside from Jones is over rated,just a bunch of former Pride bums.

He looked good both times versus machida and Machida is considered #2 and you call Shogun a CAN so how good is this division?I already said it...VERY WEAK,arguably as weak as the HW division EXCEPT Jones puts the 205 division over the top becuase unlike JDS ,Jones is actually a good rounded fighter.

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Better LHW of all time than Rua:

Chuck Liddell

Tito Ortiz

Randy Coture

Rich Franklin

Bas Rutten

Igor Vovchanchyn (ok' date=' that might be a stretch, but I loved that guy...)

 

Better Active LHW than Rua

John Jones (Will be better all-time in a couple of years...)

Dan Henderson (Also better all-time...)

Alex Gustafsson

Rashad Evans

Lyoto Machida

 

All of theese of course imho...[/quote']

 

What a fail post. lol

 

Tito Ortiz with a 16-11 record better than Rua? Ken Shamrock beater, better than a guy who fought top 5 his whole carrer. Riiight

Coutore fought at HW mostly and got beaten by Chuck and Vera IMO.

I could give u Liddel but he got KTFO against Rua sooo.

Rich Franklin never beaten anyone relevant at LHW so I dont get this one at all

I liked Igor too, but plese give me a break.

Better LHW of all time would for me be Wanderlei and Hendo if I would have to choose someone.

 

Jon Jones is better than everyvone

Dan Hendo is close

Gus hasnt beaten anyone ranked in the top ten yet. (except decision over Thiago) so he inst better unti he actually beats Rua

Rashad and Rua should fight anyway so we can talk after that

Machida got KTFO and dominated so that makes him worse in my book.

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he has beaten Machida who many tought was unbeatable' date=' TWICE.[/quote']

 

Erm.... once??

 

Yes Rua has cardio problems but that is the easiest thing to fix.

 

You should be right' date=' but I kinda wonder, why hasn't he? Motivation? A bit on the lazy side when it comes to running up hills?? Or maybe he just doesn't want to...

 

Rua has an iron chin, KO power, huge hearth, and is extremly well rounded.

 

Iron chin, yes. KO power, ok. Huge heart, Absolutley!. Well rounded, kinda...

 

That alone makes him better than 80 percent of the division.

 

Yep' date=' but still not top five, imo...

 

Besides that, he is one win away from title shot and is in the top five in every ranking site!

 

Cannot argue with that. I will be surprised though if he gets that shot. And if he were to win vs JBJ I will take back everything and apologize for ever doubting... He would have a decent chance against Henderson though, for the off-chance that he (Hendo) will be able to throw his right-hand bomb on JBJ's chin...

 

If everyvone would end their carrer everytime the "fans" say so' date=' the divison would only have Jones and Glover.[/quote']

 

True! Therefore my opinions are just opinions. Would be strange if Dana or Joe Silva would listen to everyone of us self-proclaimed experts, but that's kinda what a forum is all about... ;)

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I'd say Jones, Hendo, Evans and Machida (even though he lost to Shogun, he has been the better fighter as of late) would beat Shogun at this stage. I think there are a few dark horses like Davis and Bader who could lay n pray to a victory, but I don't think they'd rank above him though in the rankings.

 

I'd have him at Number 5 I guess, because Rampage is trash now, Gustaffson needs one more big win before breaking the Top 5, Davis hasn't beaten any top contenders, Bader will have a very hard time against people with good TDD and advanced striking, Lil Nog has done nothing to warrant Top 5, he's not even Top 10 imo.

 

So I wouldn't count out Shogun so fast, he's been very unlucky with injuries and that has seriously affected him

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I'd say Jones' date=' Hendo, Evans and Machida (even though he lost to Shogun, he has been the better fighter as of late) would beat Shogun at this stage. I think there are a few dark horses like Davis and Bader who could lay n pray to a victory, but I don't think they'd rank above him though in the rankings.

 

I'd have him at Number 5 I guess, because Rampage is trash now, Gustaffson needs one more big win before breaking the Top 5, Davis hasn't beaten any top contenders, Bader will have a very hard time against people with good TDD and advanced striking, Lil Nog has done nothing to warrant Top 5, he's not even Top 10 imo.

 

So I wouldn't count out Shogun so fast, he's been very unlucky with injuries and that has seriously affected him[/quote']

 

Time after time it has shown that opinions really dont matter. Machida was 9-1 faourite before his first fight with Rua and look how that turned out. He was favourite again in the second fight and he got KTFO. So how can anyone say Machida is better than Rua is beyond me. I dont care how good he looks. In order to be better than Rua he actually has to beat him.

Anyone can lose any given time but due to fact that Hendo vs Rua could be a draw I dont know how can u be certain that Rua would lose again.

Rashad would have a good chance since his style plays right into Shoguns weaknesses, but his chin is not very good and I tend to bealive that Rua might connect at one point especially if it would be 5 round fight.

Jones beats everybody anyway.

Davis and Bader could L&p to victory but its kind of the same like with Rashad. Its really not that far fetched to think that Rua could and probalby would KO them at some point.

 

I dont get how a fighter who always provides exciting fights and finishes gets so many "fan" backlash. I would say he has been underrated his entire carrer not overrated.

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LHW

1. JBJ

2. Evans

3. Hendo

4. Machida

5. Rua

6 Gusta

 

Rua and Gus could be interchanged in my opinion. But over rated? Meh, I don't know, Over rated enough to be able to duck matches he's not comfortable taking, and it being ok. But not really over rated over all. In my opinion Machida is more over rated than Rua. Difference is, I think Machida is more capable of beating Jon Jones if he plays the fight just right. I just don't see Rua being able to do it ever, Hendo either.

 

The only two people in the division I really see capable of giving Jon Jones a hard time are Machida, and Evans. Gus is still a wild card in my opinion. We'll know better after his next couple of fights what he's bringing to the table.

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Notice how I said UFC fighter. By this I mean fighter who actually fought for the UFC. Now if we looks at Shoguns career in the UFC' date=' it makes him IMO the most overrated fighter of all time.

 

Lets look at Shogun's UFC career fight by fight.

 

Forrest Griffin- Shogun was heavly favored to win this fight. He was coming of a strong career in Pride and many considered him the best LH in the world. Griffin ended up finishing shogun. Shogun gassed and clearly lost both rounds.

 

Mark Coleman- Shogun then faced of against a 44 year old Mark Coleman who had not fought in over 2 years. Shogun's performance was horrible and he gassed. Yes, Shogun was out for a while too, but, come on, he had trouble against a 44 year old and out of shape Mark Coleman.

 

Chuck Liddell- Shogun knocked out Chuck Liddell, but then again, who hasn't

 

Lyoto Machida- Shogun then fought for the title against Lyoto Machida. Yes, Shogun put on a good performance, but I thought Machida had won the fight and the judges made the right call.

 

Lyoto Machida 2- Shogun won hand down. I will give him credit for this fight, he did good.

 

Jon Jones- Shogun got absolutly dominated by Jon Jones. He gassed........................................and TAPPED TO STRIKES

 

Forrest Griffin- Shogun then knocked out a unmotivated and out of shape Forrest.

 

Dan Henderson- While it was an exciting fight, Shogun lost....and gassed.

 

Brandon Vera- Shogun fought Brandon Vera, who was 1-3 in his last 4. With that one win being a very slim victory over a non-top 10 fighter. Despite Shogun being the heavy favorite again, Vera proved to be a HUGE challenge as Shogun gassed and was taken to the limit by Vera.

 

He has also ducked a fight against a better opponent in Gus.

 

If you really break it down fight by fight, Shogun Rua is IMO not even a top 5 LH fighter in the UFC.

 

Discuss and hate me.[/quote']

 

your analysis is pretty good and (for the most part) unbiased

 

the only thing I would change is your quick dismissal of his KO over Liddell and Forrest. Those are 2 very impressive wins on his part. You give him credit for his KO over Machida

 

but yeah, overall he had a pretty lackluster UFC career. Besides the first KO of Liddell and the KO of Machida, he did not impress that much

 

and his loss to Jones was deplorable. nothing bad about losing to Jones, but the way he lost was pathetic

 

like him as a person, and of course he's a decent fighter, just slightly overrated

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How can someone be overrated when 80% of the forum hates the guy and tries to bash him at every opportunity?

 

Do you even know what overrated means?

 

overrated means people think someone is better than they actually are

 

so yeah, to your point, he may not be overrated. but keep in mind, this forum's opinions do not reflect overall opinion.

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5-4 since entering the UFC, 2 wins coming via opponent should have retired ten years ago... Sloppy victory against coleman and KO of an over the hill Liddell who was previously beaten by JARDINE! Always comes in in terrible shape and terrible Cardio and makes excuses every single fight about his damn knee or something else hell this fight Vera did great and gave a better performance than Shogun and what did shogun do said he wasnt at his best thats why vera did so good. Shogun was somebody in Pride back when the competition was low and a lot of one trick ponies... In non biased divisions for non overrated fighters 5-4 wouldnt get you in the top 15 let alone a top 5 fighter thats the biggest Joke in UFC

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Overrated is a strong word but he definately is a shell of what he once was or could be, based on his ufc carrer. His way to title shots are the most pathetic in all mma imo. Beat way over the hill coleman and a rapidly declining lidell (still a good win but it was obv he was on the way out) and was almost in a sole title elimator against a guy who wasnt ranked WTF!!

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Notice how I said UFC fighter. By this I mean fighter who actually fought for the UFC. Now if we looks at Shoguns career in the UFC' date=' it makes him IMO the most overrated fighter of all time.

 

Lets look at Shogun's UFC career fight by fight.

 

Forrest Griffin- Shogun was heavly favored to win this fight. He was coming of a strong career in Pride and many considered him the best LH in the world. Griffin ended up finishing shogun. Shogun gassed and clearly lost both rounds.

 

Mark Coleman- Shogun then faced of against a 44 year old Mark Coleman who had not fought in over 2 years. Shogun's performance was horrible and he gassed. Yes, Shogun was out for a while too, but, come on, he had trouble against a 44 year old and out of shape Mark Coleman.

 

Chuck Liddell- Shogun knocked out Chuck Liddell, but then again, who hasn't

 

Lyoto Machida- Shogun then fought for the title against Lyoto Machida. Yes, Shogun put on a good performance, but I thought Machida had won the fight and the judges made the right call.

 

Lyoto Machida 2- Shogun won hand down. I will give him credit for this fight, he did good.

 

Jon Jones- Shogun got absolutly dominated by Jon Jones. He gassed........................................and TAPPED TO STRIKES

 

Forrest Griffin- Shogun then knocked out a unmotivated and out of shape Forrest.

 

Dan Henderson- While it was an exciting fight, Shogun lost....and gassed.

 

Brandon Vera- Shogun fought Brandon Vera, who was 1-3 in his last 4. With that one win being a very slim victory over a non-top 10 fighter. Despite Shogun being the heavy favorite again, Vera proved to be a HUGE challenge as Shogun gassed and was taken to the limit by Vera.

 

He has also ducked a fight against a better opponent in Gus.

 

If you really break it down fight by fight, Shogun Rua is IMO not even a top 5 LH fighter in the UFC.

 

Discuss and hate me.[/quote']

 

Nobody can disagree with you on how he lost those fights.

 

People gravitate towards Shogun because he brings it every single time .. wether he gasses or not.

 

IMO he is a middleweight, and can't beat Jones,

 

He also reached his prime early (Mid 20's)

 

I am definitly not saying your correct in Shogun being an over-rated fighter, however I do

see the logic behind why you think that.

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Better LHW of all time than Rua:

Chuck Liddell

Tito Ortiz

Randy Coture

Rich Franklin

Bas Rutten

Igor Vovchanchyn (ok' date=' that might be a stretch, but I loved that guy...)

 

Better Active LHW than Rua

John Jones (Will be better all-time in a couple of years...)

Dan Henderson (Also better all-time...)

[b']Alex Gustafsson[/b]

Rashad Evans

Lyoto Machida

 

All of theese of course imho...

 

ibmtV44QlsqO9t.gif

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Pretty harsh, some commentary on Shogun. He has done a very good job of making any fight he's in a challenge, except for 1 in his UFC career. Let's look at the losses.

 

Forrest - It was his debut with a whole new format to fight under. He wasn't as well conditioned as people were used to seeing, and he got ground down to the very end. I believe this was the first time fighting with his knees giving him issues? It doesn't excuse a loss, but it is understandable that it would effect his performance.

 

Machida 1 - When a fight is so close in score and Lyoto himself looked like he expected Rua won before the decision was read, is there any shame in it? Not at all. (Especially when Rua won the rematch definitively)

 

Jones - He looked sloppy. His camp said that first knee took a lot out of him, and I don't doubt that much. It had been almost a year since his last fight and he was coming off an injury as well, so a less-than-prime performance isn't surprising, especially with a sudden change in who was fighting him. Six weeks to adjust to a different fighter when you've been expecting a totally different guy for over eight months sucks.

 

Henderson - Possibly the most high profile fight ever where fans and critics ripped on judges for not scoring it a draw. Say what you want, but Shogun was never put away by one of the most lauded one-punch fighters ever and fighting to the last bell when Henderson was barely able to get off the stool for the last round.

 

All in all....is a fighter really overrated when his losses have been performances like this?

 

TL:DR version : haters gonna hate.

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I think you're wrong, OP. He is in no way the most overrated fighter in the UFC, especially not of all time, but he probably is the most inconsistent UFC fighter of all time. This 100% 20% crap is a load of bollocks, but there's degrees of truth to that... What people don't acknowledge, which is what I hate, is that they say "a 100% Shogun could tear anyone apart" which may be true, he could at any given time rip apart most guys, but he doesn't train hard, and comes into fights way out of shape and focus. It's Shoguns choice to be 100%, and he doesn't choose to be 100%...

 

With that being said, if we were to have a fighter just like Shogun, same strengths, same weaknesses, if this guy were to train his **** off and push himself to the limits in his gym, he'd rip people to shreds. Vera would have been the first death in the octagon.

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In an organisation that has had to put up with all the hype over Lesnar, Shogun doesn't even register on the scale.

 

I feel people like Edgar are far more overrated than Shogun. Admittedly, He's ranged from poor to awesome in his fights, but it's hard to see the OP's point. If he can hang with Hendo and beat Machida, he has to be one of the best.

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