MetatronBJJ Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I didn't see another thread about this but I apologize if there is. Am I the only one who isn't convinced that Andy is a better fighter than Chael? Chael basically dominated him for 4 1/2 rounds in the first fight before he got caught in an arm lock. In the second fight he dominated him the first round and then for some unknown reason, went for a spinning back fist. He has to be kicking himself. Why would you go for a spinning backfist on someone who probably has the quickest reaction time in the UFC. All he had to do was take what he did in round one, rinse and repeat. I'm not taking anything away from Andy, but both of those fights seemed very winnable for Chael. If Andy wasn't towards the end of his career, I'm pretty sure we may have even seen a Silva/Sonnen 3 way down the road. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengu Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I didn't see another thread about this but I apologize if there is. Am I the only one who isn't convinced that Andy is a better fighter than Chael? Chael basically dominated him for 4 1/2 rounds in the first fight before he got caught in an arm lock. In the second fight he dominated him the first round and then for some unknown reason' date=' went for a spinning back fist. He has to be kicking himself. Why would you go for a spinning backfist on someone who probably has the quickest reaction time in the UFC. All he had to do was take what he did in round one, rinse and repeat. I'm not taking anything away from Andy, but both of those fights seemed very winnable for Chael. If Andy wasn't towards the end of his career, I'm pretty sure we may have even seen a Silva/Sonnen 3 way down the road. What do you guys think?[/quote'] If you can lose in convincing fashion after dominating for 4 and a 1/2 rounds. You ain't the better fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesterdays_Hero Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Both of their fights are surrounded by controversy. Anderson finished the first fight with that groin choke which I am 100% sure is illegal and combined with his pink shirts is more than enough to question his heterosexuality. The second fight was plagued with more cheating from Anderson. Short grabbing, cage grabbing, greasing, pre-fight assault and a couple more that I am forgetting right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uddaside Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Lol seriously? this again? Your butts can't still be hurting surely, you must be mentally scarred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesterdays_Hero Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Lol seriously? this again? Your butts can't still be hurting surely' date=' you must be mentally scarred.[/quote'] If you have nothing to add about Chael being superior to Anderson, please don't post. thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uddaside Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 If you have nothing to add about Chael being superior to Anderson' date=' please don't post. thanx[/quote'] Chaels superior at being a cheating, fraudulent trash talking scumbag. How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesterdays_Hero Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Chaels superior at being a cheating' date=' fraudulent trash talking scumbag. How's that?[/quote'] Personally I would give the edge to Silva in the cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uddaside Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Personally I would give the edge to Silva in the cheating. Who got suspended for cheating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodredsunn Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 if nothing better to do, listen to trollfest http://www.myspace.com/trollfest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesterdays_Hero Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Who got suspended for cheating? Anderson if nothing better to do' date=' listen to trollfest http://www.myspace.com/trollfest Myspace? What is this, 2005? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Anderson Myspace? What is this' date=' 2005?[/quote'] lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uddaside Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Anderson See, he's so ingrained within your psyche you even dream about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesterdays_Hero Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 See' date=' he's so ingrained within your psyche you even dream about him.[/quote'] It's racist to assume that the black guy robbing me in my dream was Anderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uddaside Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 It's racist to assume that the black guy robbing me in my dream was Anderson. You dreamt you was chael? Crikey, plot thickens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jduk Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 they fought twice, Anderson won twice. Anderson is better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesterdays_Hero Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 You dreamt you was chael? Crikey' date=' plot thickens.[/quote'] Are you saying Chael was robbed by Anderson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uddaside Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Are you saying Chael was robbed by Anderson? He robbed his soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesterdays_Hero Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 He robbed his soul. Via cheating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 they fought twice' date=' Anderson won twice. Anderson is better[/quote'] You just see some fights and you know that the winner would win 9/10 times or 10/10 times. I don't get that feeling with these guys. Chael gave the fight away twice. He defended the triangle perfectly but left his arm in(Andy was a beast in capitalizing on the arm lock), and the spinning back fist was just weird. I think Chael could just as well have been 2-0 against Silva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uddaside Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Via cheating We've been here before.....go back for response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengu Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 You just see some fights and you know that the winner would win 9/10 times or 10/10 times. I don't get that feeling with these guys. Chael gave the fight away twice. He defended the triangle perfectly but left his arm in(Andy was a beast in capitalizing on the arm lock)' date=' and the spinning back fist was just weird. I think Chael could just as well have been 2-0 against Silva.[/quote'] That's the difference between #2 and #1, the best in the world doesn't make mistakes 2 times. The best in the world know what they are good at and in Chael's case he threw a spinning back fist against imo the best striker in MMA. You won't see Anderson try shoot a single, run the pipe then switch it into a high crotch against Chael. A lot of times people say Chael gave the fight away etc, or we can look at it as Anderson is just a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 That's the difference between #2 and #1' date=' the best in the world doesn't make mistakes 2 times.The best in the world know what they are good at and in Chael's case he threw a spinning back fist against imo the best striker in MMA. You won't see Anderson try shoot a single, run the pipe then switch it into a high crotch against Chael. A lot of times people say Chael gave the fight away etc, or we can look at it as Anderson is just a beast.[/quote'] First fight he showed he is a beast with his bjj. Second fight he beat the hell out of someone who fell on his ***. Chael/Hendo/wrestlers are the worst match ups for Andy and he showed he's the best by capitalizing on their mistakes. It's just that when I rewatched those fights, I was thinking "Chael, what the hell are you doing", especially the second fight. Unlike most other fighters, Chael has all the tools to beat Silva whereas a Rich Franklin or Forrest Griffin do not. Those type of fighters would probably lose every single time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmxyo Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I chuckled a tad bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come_at_me Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I didn't see another thread about this but I apologize if there is. Am I the only one who isn't convinced that Andy is a better fighter than Chael? Chael basically dominated him for 4 1/2 rounds in the first fight before he got caught in an arm lock. In the second fight he dominated him the first round and then for some unknown reason' date=' went for a spinning back fist. He has to be kicking himself. Why would you go for a spinning backfist on someone who probably has the quickest reaction time in the UFC. All he had to do was take what he did in round one, rinse and repeat. I'm not taking anything away from Andy, but both of those fights seemed very winnable for Chael. If Andy wasn't towards the end of his career, I'm pretty sure we may have even seen a Silva/Sonnen 3 way down the road. What do you guys think?[/quote'] This is pretty funny stuff. Anderson Silva beats chael 10 out of 10 times. Another thing I saw in a prefight workout vid of chael he was practicing that spinning bacfist. Why the **** would you even think of doing something like that against Anderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewMMAFansSuck Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Anderson Silva got outboxed and outgrappled for a total of 5 1/2 rounds. Im not convinced at all that Silva is the more superior fighter of the two, but a true champion always finds a way to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newyorkgiant1 Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 No Sonnen was on trt the first fight and Silva had injured ribs...it clearly showed by how much better Silva controlled Sonnen when he was mounted in the second fight. Sonnen has a black belt in motor mouth and good td's...that's about it. Silva is the much better fighter and always will be. Now Sonnen wants Jones who has TDD% of 100%?! LOL where does Sonnen expect to win this fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 This is pretty funny stuff. Anderson Silva beats chael 10 out of 10 times.Another thing I saw in a prefight workout vid of chael he was practicing that spinning bacfist. Why the **** would you even think of doing something like that against Anderson. Idk...Chael's ****iness lost him both of those fights. He got comfortable in the first fight. Andy started pushing Chael's left arm in close to his body and eventually locked the right arm before the triangle. It was pretty obvious he was going for it. I don't know how Chael knew enough BJJ to defend the triangle but not enough to know that it was coming. After he got out of the triangle he got careless and left his arm in. Andy knew enough to capitalize on that mistake but I think Chael lost the fight more than Andy won it. Same with the ridiculous spinning back fist in the second fight. I really don't see how you can look at both of those fights and say Andy would win 10/10 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 No Sonnen was on trt the first fight and Silva had injured ribs...it clearly showed by how much better Silva controlled Sonnen when he was mounted in the second fight. Sonnen has a black belt in motor mouth and good td's...that's about it. Silva is the much better fighter and always will be. Now Sonnen wants Jones who has TDD% of 100%?! LOL where does Sonnen expect to win this fight? Andy is better in almost every aspect except Chael can pretty much take him down at will. Once it goes to the ground we all know he can lay on him the whole round whether he's doing damage or not and win the round....and Sonnen wants money so he calls out the fighters that will get him the biggest pay day. I can't be mad at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come_at_me Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Andy is better in almost every aspect except Chael can pretty much take him down at will. Once it goes to the ground we all know he can lay on him the whole round whether he's doing damage or not and win the round....and Sonnen wants money so he calls out the fighters that will get him the biggest pay day. I can't be mad at that. Well then what happened in round 2 of the 2nd fight. Silva stuffed like 3 of his take down attemps and it was all over after that. I think if they were to fight again Chael would not take him down once and he would be finished within like the first minute of the first round. He figured out how to stop his takedowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S6XStringz Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Chael had to take andy down in the second fight in that second round first to rinse and repeat as the OP mentioned. Andy came back with his signature takedown defense and stopped chael. Of course Chael wanted to lnp him all day for a decision, only way chael wins. Andy didn't allow, so chael gets desperate and throws a spinning backfist. I won't say Chael couldn't beat Andy at least once in 10 fights, but Anderson is definitely the better fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Well then what happened in round 2 of the 2nd fight. Silva stuffed like 3 of his take down attemps and it was all over after that. I think if they were to fight again Chael would not take him down once and he would be finished within like the first minute of the first round. He figured out how to stop his takedowns. That's why I said "pretty much":) being taken down for 6 out of 7 rounds with Sonnen is being taken down at will in my book. 7th times a charm:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijosef Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I still believe that Sonnen has the tools to beat Anderson Silva. If their first fight was only three rounds, he would've taken a 30-27 UD easily (although it would've been turned into a no contest anyway...). It just so happens that Sonnen is strongest where Anderson is weakest, and that's why he's a threat. In the end though, he lost twice. Silva showed he's a true champion by finding a way to win both times. I believe that he proved his true meddle not when he was dominating and making his opponents look like clowns, but when he was getting beat and was able to come from behind and retain his title. After getting dominated by Chael's wrestling for 4.5 rounds, he locked in a triangle for the finish. In the second fight he got dominated in the first (one judge scoring it 10-8 for Chael), but he took advantage of a stupid mistake by Chael in the 2nd round and finished the fight. That's what makes Anderson so dangerous - he can identify a gap in his opponent's defense and capitalize in a split second. Chael could've won both of those fights in my opinion, but he didn't. Time for him to move on (which he is doing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abusername Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Silva might not be the better fighter, but he is a better cheater. His fans should be proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Silva might not be the better fighter' date=' but he is a better cheater. [b']His fans should be proud[/b]. And we are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyFeet Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I didn't see another thread about this but I apologize if there is. Am I the only one who isn't convinced that Andy is a better fighter than Chael? Chael basically dominated him for 4 1/2 rounds in the first fight before he got caught in an arm lock. In the second fight he dominated him the first round and then for some unknown reason' date=' went for a spinning back fist. He has to be kicking himself. Why would you go for a spinning backfist on someone who probably has the quickest reaction time in the UFC. All he had to do was take what he did in round one, rinse and repeat. I'm not taking anything away from Andy, but both of those fights seemed very winnable for Chael. If Andy wasn't towards the end of his career, I'm pretty sure we may have even seen a Silva/Sonnen 3 way down the road. What do you guys think?[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdGOAT Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Yesterdays_Hero wins, 50-45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 My jimmies are straight son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furiousmat Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I didn't see another thread about this but I apologize if there is. Am I the only one who isn't convinced that Andy is a better fighter than Chael? Chael basically dominated him for 4 1/2 rounds in the first fight before he got caught in an arm lock. In the second fight he dominated him the first round and then for some unknown reason' date=' went for a spinning back fist. He has to be kicking himself. Why would you go for a spinning backfist on someone who probably has the quickest reaction time in the UFC. All he had to do was take what he did in round one, rinse and repeat. I'm not taking anything away from Andy, but both of those fights seemed very winnable for Chael. If Andy wasn't towards the end of his career, I'm pretty sure we may have even seen a Silva/Sonnen 3 way down the road. What do you guys think?[/quote'] Well you can tell what happened the way you want, Silva is still 2-0 against Chael. Silva was said to be injured in the 1st fight. I guess some people will always paint this as excuses so I'll just move on from that argument. Then the 2nd fight happened, Sonnen took Silva down in the 1st.. yeah.. We knew he was going to do that. What we also saw is Silva coming in swinging for the fences and paying 0 attention to the takedown in the 1st seconds of the round. He got taken down and never got back up. But then what you seem to forget here is that Sonnen didn't just come on in the 2nd and throw that dumb spinning back fist. He came in trying to "rinse and repeat" but was unable to do so. Silva came in more defensively and avoided the takedown. They separated, exchanged a couple blows, Sonnen then tried AGAIN to take him down, failed again, and then it went downhill from there. What you're saying is based on the false assumption that Sonnen would've been able to take down Silva at will and that all he had to do is just that. Truth isn't that simple. It is true that it is all he had to do.. in the sense that it's basically all he could do. But He WASN'T able to take Silva down at will.. that's the part you're missing in your analysis of this fight. and.. it is possible that Sonnen, having a good style to fight against Silva, might have managed to defeat him if they kept on having rematches.. at some point, he'd get it right. But all in all, Silva has displayed, over time, that he could be matched up with a greater diversity of fighters than Sonnen. Understand that Sonnen is actually the worst kind of fighter for Anderson. On the other hand, Anderson's kinda the best kind of fighters for Sonnen. And the result was the same.. twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobercuban Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 He's obviously the dumber fighter ... Silva/Sonnen 1: minutes to go lets Silva get wrist control, doesn't do anything about it Silva/Sonnen 2: throws idiot spinning backfist and falls down and then instead of scrambling scoots his back to the cage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMod_FUCKS_his_FAT_DISGUSTING_MOM_in_the_ASS_BEG_is_a_CUNT_too_LMFAO Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 He's obviously the dumber fighter ... Silva/Sonnen 1: minutes to go lets Silva get wrist control' date=' doesn't do anything about it Silva/Sonnen 2: throws idiot spinning backfist and falls down and then instead of scrambling scoots his back to the cage[/quote'] Silva/Sonnen 1: Silva/Sonnen 2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Well you can tell what happened the way you want' date=' Silva is still 2-0 against Chael. Silva was said to be injured in the 1st fight. I guess some people will always paint this as excuses so I'll just move on from that argument. Then the 2nd fight happened, Sonnen took Silva down in the 1st.. yeah.. We knew he was going to do that. What we also saw is Silva coming in swinging for the fences and paying 0 attention to the takedown in the 1st seconds of the round. He got taken down and never got back up. But then what you seem to forget here is that Sonnen didn't just come on in the 2nd and throw that dumb spinning back fist. He came in trying to "rinse and repeat" but was unable to do so. Silva came in more defensively and avoided the takedown. They separated, exchanged a couple blows, [b']Sonnen then tried AGAIN to take him down, failed again, and then it went downhill from there.[/b] What you're saying is based on the false assumption that Sonnen would've been able to take down Silva at will and that all he had to do is just that. Truth isn't that simple. It is true that it is all he had to do.. in the sense that it's basically all he could do. But He WASN'T able to take Silva down at will.. that's the part you're missing in your analysis of this fight. and.. it is possible that Sonnen, having a good style to fight against Silva, might have managed to defeat him if they kept on having rematches.. at some point, he'd get it right. But all in all, Silva has displayed, over time, that he could be matched up with a greater diversity of fighters than Sonnen. Understand that Sonnen is actually the worst kind of fighter for Anderson. On the other hand, Anderson's kinda the best kind of fighters for Sonnen. And the result was the same.. twice. Andy and Chael fought for 7 rounds total. Chael took him down 6 of those 7 rounds. Are you trying to suggest that one failed take down attempt means that Andy has automatically figured out Chael's wrestling game??? Chael tried the spinning the back hand because he got ****y and thought he could beat Andy at his own game in Brazil. I truly believe Sonnen thought he had the fight in the bag and could end it however he wanted. When Chael got stuffed when fighting Brian Stann once, did he give up and stop trying to take him down? No. He tried again and took him down again. Andy and Chael are the live version of the tortoise and the hare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Can Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 styles make fights Sonnen had the perfect style to beat andy and lost 2ce Silva was also able to keep it standing enough to hurt chael, with or without the spinning backfist Additionally, I do believe Anderson was hurt going into the first fight don't believe everything Sonnen claims Silva is the better fighter /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgelebrun Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Both of their fights are surrounded by controversy. Anderson finished the first fight with that groin choke which I am 100% sure is illegal and combined with his pink shirts is more than enough to question his heterosexuality. The second fight was plagued with more cheating from Anderson. Short grabbing' date=' cage grabbing, greasing, pre-fight assault and a couple more that I am forgetting right now.[/quote'] butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobercuban Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Silva/Sonnen 1: Silva/Sonnen 2: lol love the second picture ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuAloser Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Though I think Silva won Sonnen clearly with 1 sub and 1 TKO I think Sonnen could have won via LnP Btw I wouldn't mind a third fight they got good chemistry like Chuck and Tito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 lol love the second picture ... That second pic is epic...You can hear Chael saying "oh schnappp, **** just got real :eek:" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rule_abiding_poster Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Yeah I agree, honestly Sonnen did prove that he was better skill wise and MUCH more dominant imo. The only thing anderson proved was that he can capitalize on mistakes and get away with flagrant cheating on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodrigoRua Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Honestly (ppl will hate me for it) but to thia day I think both fights were somehow set and in fact Sonnens run in UFC was set and has been set for LHW as well (after he beat Marquart). Sonnen could easily ask for a #3 fight based on Silva being cleaned by the referee on the beginning of the fight and a "not so sure" knee. Instead, he just moved on and now is picking a "super fight" with Jones. As it wasnt enough he was given a no-heart Griffin who will most likely lay in there and lose by UD ... then next Sonnen will fight probally a guy with ZERO ground game (Thiago Silva, Rampage or mayve even Gus if he loses to Shogun) and get a title shot !!! Mark my words on it. Im Anderson Silva fan but I personally didnt buy the whole drama between these 2 guys, sorry. I even had a bad impression about that Sonnens "spinning" .. give me a break guys ... then alfter he fell down he just sat in there waiting for that knee ... almost as if they got together time ago and trainned that routine .... Thas was a moment on round 1 when Sonnen clearly let a clear Kimura go !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobercuban Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 That second pic is epic...You can hear Chael saying "oh schnappp' date=' **** just got real :eek:"[/quote'] lol "protect yourself at all times" went out the window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openwindow Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 I am certain Silva is the better fighter. A fighter needs to be adept in all areas, including the mind. Chael was capable of using is aggression and wrestling for a while, but he made a silly mistake that cost him both fights. Under my own personal definition of a fighter, Silva is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.