Hell on earth or heaven on earth?

[Manho]

I was in starbucks one time and i overheard 2 guys talking about how downtrodden they have become. They were both about to lose their houses in foreclosure. One guy was saying to the other, "i dont think things are gonna get any worse for me! Ive hit rock bottom and im almost done! I believe this is hell on earth!". Then the other guy blurted out, "no my friend, im more afraid if this is already heaven on earth!". Honestly, that statement sent shivers down my spine! Although we are talking about the subject of metaphysics and religion here, but what if one of these guys were correct especially the second one?

[Leiting]

Actually, theoretical scholar and Anglican bishop N.T. Wright - who is widely considered one of the foremost leading experts in the New Testament - says that indeed earth is the location of heaven. He notes that the concept of rising souls up to the heavens was really only popularized in the 1st and 2nd century, a hundred or two years after the death of Jesus. Instead, he believes the message of Christ was actually standing orders to bring heaven onto this earth. That it was up to us to wipe diseases, poverty, and hatred away. And ultimately, Jesus would return to this earth, and it would then become heaven.

 

It's interesting to think about the ramifications of these notions. I mean when you think about the idea of pollution, or of nuclear weaponry, would people who believed this rock in space will ultimately serve as the location of our eternal salvation continue to treat it the way we do? If the Christian community thought of creating heaven on earth as opposed to being possibly a passive passenger waiting to arrive at the pearly gates in some metaphysical other place - I think it would greatly alter the way we approached not only waiting out the clock to "rise" to heaven, but also how we behave while we're here.

 

N.T. Wright has some very good points too - talking about how no where in the gospel does it say we will die and then go to heaven, but instead talks about when Jesus returns he will unite heaven and earth in a new creation. The following is a quote from an interview he did with Time Magazine;

 

"If people think "my physical body doesn't matter very much," then who cares what I do with it? And if people think that our world, our cosmos, doesn't matter much, who cares what we do with that? Much of "traditional" Christianity gives the impression that God has these rather arbitrary rules about how you have to behave, and if you disobey them you go to hell, rather than to heaven. What the New Testament really says is God wants you to be a renewed human being helping him to renew his creation, and his resurrection was the opening bell. And when he returns to fulfil the plan, you won't be going up there to him, he'll be coming down here."

 

So, in a manner of speaking, it is possible this is the dawning of heaven on earth. Again, I submit this only as one theory by a theological scholar, but it's worth considering at least.

[fobar]

Why worry about it either guy is right or wrong. I don't live in fear of what happens when I die, I just live for the day and be thankful for all thats good in my life.

[Polymerase]

I was in starbucks one time and i overheard 2 guys talking about how downtrodden they have become. They were both about to lose their houses in foreclosure. One guy was saying to the other' date=' "i dont think things are gonna get any worse for me! Ive hit rock bottom and im almost done! I believe this is hell on earth!". Then the other guy blurted out, "no my friend, im more afraid if this is already heaven on earth!". Honestly, that statement sent shivers down my spine! Although we are talking about the subject of metaphysics and religion here, but what if one of these guys were correct especially the second one?[/quote']

 

No reason to worry until there is evidence what they said is true

[Kevbo_Jones]

Actually' date=' theoretical scholar and Anglican bishop N.T. Wright - who is widely considered one of the foremost leading experts in the New Testament - says that indeed earth is the location of heaven. He notes that the concept of rising souls up to the heavens was really only popularized in the 1st and 2nd century, a hundred or two years after the death of Jesus. Instead, he believes the message of Christ was actually standing orders to bring heaven onto this earth. That it was up to us to wipe diseases, poverty, and hatred away. And ultimately, Jesus would return to this earth, and it would then become heaven.

 

It's interesting to think about the ramifications of these notions. I mean when you think about the idea of pollution, or of nuclear weaponry, would people who believed this rock in space will ultimately serve as the location of our eternal salvation continue to treat it the way we do? If the Christian community thought of creating heaven on earth as opposed to being possibly a passive passenger waiting to arrive at the pearly gates in some metaphysical other place - I think it would greatly alter the way we approached not only waiting out the clock to "rise" to heaven, but also how we behave while we're here.

 

N.T. Wright has some very good points too - talking about how no where in the gospel does it say we will die and then go to heaven, but instead talks about when Jesus returns he will unite heaven and earth in a new creation. The following is a quote from an interview he did with Time Magazine;

 

"If people think "my physical body doesn't matter very much," then who cares what I do with it? And if people think that our world, our cosmos, doesn't matter much, who cares what we do with that? Much of "traditional" Christianity gives the impression that God has these rather arbitrary rules about how you have to behave, and if you disobey them you go to hell, rather than to heaven. What the New Testament really says is God wants you to be a renewed human being helping him to renew his creation, and his resurrection was the opening bell. And when he returns to fulfil the plan, you won't be going up there to him, he'll be coming down here."

 

So, in a manner of speaking, it is possible this is the dawning of heaven on earth. Again, I submit this only as one theory by a theological scholar, but it's worth considering at least.[/quote']

 

 

Bringing "heaven to earth" were standing orders from the ETs that created the human race. Meaning, make your barbaric, simplistic society more like ours.

[brewster]

it was a metaphor...

[Leiting]

Bringing "heaven to earth" were standing orders from the ETs that created the human race. Meaning' date=' make your barbaric, simplistic society more like ours.[/quote']

 

OK. Have these extra terrestrials left some type of guide post or hints on how we might go about bringing about a more perfect society? I myself do not believe in life from other planets that have visited ours (I do believe in life outside of ours, just don't believe they've come to our planet) - but I am not altogether opposed to the notion in a theoretical sense. But if they had visited, and did indeed wish to see us become like them, would they not have left behind rather blatant instructions for us?

 

Unless you're suggesting that they created us, and then left us here with the hope we would grow into a life-form similar to theirs - although in that case they would have lacked omnipotence, and would therefore not know we would become, as you described it, a "barbaric, simplistic society".

[NewGuy2000]

I think we should all be grateful we are alive and the human species existed and survived. Definitely heaven on earth.

[ThePack19]

Have you all not seen the women walking around the beaches this past summer?!?!? Totally heaven on earth!!

[Kevbo_Jones]

OK. Have these extra terrestrials left some type of guide post or hints on how we might go about bringing about a more perfect society? I myself do not believe in life from other planets that have visited ours (I do believe in life outside of ours' date=' just don't believe they've come to our planet) - but I am not altogether opposed to the notion in a theoretical sense. But if they had visited, and did indeed wish to see us become like them, would they not have left behind rather blatant instructions for us?

 

Unless you're suggesting that they created us, and then left us here with the hope we would grow into a life-form similar to theirs - although in that case they would have lacked omnipotence, and would therefore not know we would become, as you described it, a "barbaric, simplistic society".[/quote']

 

They did, its called a holy book(whichever variation you prefer). But instead of primitive people calling them what they were, they called them angels and demons and God.

[jduk]

Actually' date=' theoretical scholar and Anglican bishop N.T. Wright - who is widely considered one of the foremost leading experts in the New Testament - says that indeed earth is the location of heaven. He notes that the concept of rising souls up to the heavens was really only popularized in the 1st and 2nd century, a hundred or two years after the death of Jesus. Instead, he believes the message of Christ was actually standing orders to bring heaven onto this earth. That it was up to us to wipe diseases, poverty, and hatred away. And ultimately, Jesus would return to this earth, and it would then become heaven.

 

It's interesting to think about the ramifications of these notions. I mean when you think about the idea of pollution, or of nuclear weaponry, would people who believed this rock in space will ultimately serve as the location of our eternal salvation continue to treat it the way we do? If the Christian community thought of creating heaven on earth as opposed to being possibly a passive passenger waiting to arrive at the pearly gates in some metaphysical other place - I think it would greatly alter the way we approached not only waiting out the clock to "rise" to heaven, but also how we behave while we're here.

 

N.T. Wright has some very good points too - talking about how no where in the gospel does it say we will die and then go to heaven, but instead talks about when Jesus returns he will unite heaven and earth in a new creation. The following is a quote from an interview he did with Time Magazine;

 

"If people think "my physical body doesn't matter very much," then who cares what I do with it? And if people think that our world, our cosmos, doesn't matter much, who cares what we do with that? Much of "traditional" Christianity gives the impression that God has these rather arbitrary rules about how you have to behave, and if you disobey them you go to hell, rather than to heaven. What the New Testament really says is God wants you to be a renewed human being helping him to renew his creation, and his resurrection was the opening bell. And when he returns to fulfil the plan, you won't be going up there to him, he'll be coming down here."

 

So, in a manner of speaking, it is possible this is the dawning of heaven on earth. Again, I submit this only as one theory by a theological scholar, but it's worth considering at least.[/quote']

 

Bringing "heaven to earth" were standing orders from the ETs that created the human race. Meaning' date=' make your barbaric, simplistic society more like ours.[/quote']

 

OK. Have these extra terrestrials left some type of guide post or hints on how we might go about bringing about a more perfect society? I myself do not believe in life from other planets that have visited ours (I do believe in life outside of ours' date=' just don't believe they've come to our planet) - but I am not altogether opposed to the notion in a theoretical sense. But if they had visited, and did indeed wish to see us become like them, would they not have left behind rather blatant instructions for us?

 

Unless you're suggesting that they created us, and then left us here with the hope we would grow into a life-form similar to theirs - although in that case they would have lacked omnipotence, and would therefore not know we would become, as you described it, a "barbaric, simplistic society".[/quote']

 

They did' date=' its called a holy book(whichever variation you prefer). But instead of primitive people calling them what they were, they called them angels and demons and God.[/quote']