MetatronBJJ Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 First and foremost, Jones won the fight, is an amazing champion, and has the heart of a lion(as well as most MMA fighters), but Vitor said he loosened up on the arm bar because he heard/felt the elbow pop. After re watching the fight, I believe him. He could have thrust his hips into that elbow and took Jones arm home with him. Do you think it was a mistake? or do you think it showed class? I'm kind of up in the air about it. In BJJ you roll soooo much and you are always looking out for your partner so when most people feel a pop they let go(except for someone who took 4 arms home at grapplers quest who shall remain nameless:D) There are exceptions, but I feel that most BJJ guys instinctively ease up when they have something locked. Either way, I respect the hell out of all the fighters at 152. Anyway, did Vitor make a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayzee Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Its his excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePack19 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Its his excuse. This. Trust me.....you have the opportunity to defeat a un-stoppable beast and become LHW champion that no other came close to doing against Jones.......being nice is not on your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmafan73 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 showed class but it was a mistake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rule_abiding_poster Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Cost him the fight, vitor gave it away to Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesterdays_Hero Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 It would be racist to snap Jones' arm. Vitor is not a racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 This. Trust me.....you have the opportunity to defeat a un-stoppable beast and become LHW champion that no other came close to doing against Jones.......being nice is not on your mind. But it was locked in, and all he had to do was thrust his hips....I'm sure he knows enough BJJ to know how much his hips come in to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaffinAlien Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 A mistake of the highest order of course. The entire sport is based around punishing your opponent, in a case such as this it's my personal opinion that it is more sporting to snap his arm off then to ease off. Sportsmanship in MMA can be limited to backing off when you hit an opponent in the family jewells or after accidentally thumbing an eye even though the ref didn't see it. Class is something thats shown before and after a fight, not during a fight. There is no room for playing Mr Nice Guy during an MMA bout. Save sportsmanship of this type for non-combat sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePack19 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 LOL at you guys saying Vitor was nice and let go. Whatever. Lets say he did be nice and let go because he heard it pop. Now Vitor knows he screwed up Jones arm and now has the advantage to finish him........so where was Vitor aggression?!?!? He should have bullied Jones to the cage and start swinging those "fastest arms in MMA" because he knows Jones is injured and cannot use his arm effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 A mistake of the highest order of course. The entire sport is based around punishing your opponent' date=' in a case such as this it's my personal opinion that it is more sporting to snap his arm off then to ease off. Sportsmanship in MMA can be limited to backing off when you hit an opponent in the family jewells or after accidentally thumbing an eye even though the ref didn't see it. Class is something thats shown before and after a fight, not during a fight. There is no room for playing Mr Nice Guy during an MMA bout. Save sportsmanship of this type for non-combat sports.[/quote'] I believe I agree, but I think it was just his BJJ background coming out of him. Do you have more respect for him? I do, and I think Jones does. Anyone who knows submission grappling knows he had the fight in the bag once the arm was locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePack19 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 I believe I agree' date=' but I think it was just his BJJ background coming out of him. Do you have more respect for him? I do, and I think Jones does. Anyone who knows submission grappling knows he had the fight in the bag once the arm was locked.[/quote'] You had to convince yourself this so you could sleep last night didn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaman Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Vitor's an old school fighter he has never been a man to stop and think "am I hurting him?" and why should he? If he could, he would rush Jones in an instant and only stop when the ref stepped in, Jones' defended it at the cost of nerve damage, Vitor did everything he could, he lost grip beacuse the elbow was hyper extended not beacuse he felt it pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 You had to convince yourself this so you could sleep last night didn't you? No. Jones is my favorite fighter...nice try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Vitor's an old school fighter he has never been a man to stop and think "am I hurting him?" and why should he? If he could' date=' he would rush Jones in an instant and only stop when the ref stepped in, Jones' defended it at the cost of nerve damage, Vitor did everything he could, [b']he lost grip beacuse the elbow was hyper extended not beacuse he felt it pop[/b]. Why didn't he say that then? Both men acknowledged that it popped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaman Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Why didn't he say that then? Both men acknowledged that it popped. In the press conference, Vitor said he lost the grip when he heard it pop... Dude what you're trying to tell me is that Vitor a guy who sliced Couture's eyelid stopped in the middle of a sub beacuse he was afraid Jones' was hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 In the press conference' date=' [b']Vitor said he lost the grip when he heard it pop...[/b]Dude what you're trying to tell me is that Vitor a guy who sliced Couture's eyelid stopped in the middle of a sub beacuse he was afraid Jones' was hurt? I guess the question is what caused him to lose his grip when it popped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortalchaos Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 I think it was a mistake and that he should have pulled a Mir or a Royce and just broke it. Like someone else said, he was in a legitimate position to beat the unbeatable and he loosened up and lost the fight because of it. It's a combat sport. Pain and injury comes with the territory. If he had held on longer either Jones would have tapped or been in rehab in a couple weeks nursing his arm back to health for another title run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaman Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 I guess the question is what caused him to lose his grip when it popped. Jones elbow was already near breaking point, that's why Vitor lost the grip, that and the two times he got dropped on his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 I think it was a mistake and that he should have pulled a Mir or a Royce and just broke it. Like someone else said' date=' he was in a legitimate position to beat the unbeatable and he loosened up and lost the fight because of it. It's a combat sport. Pain and injury comes with the territory. If he had held on longer either Jones would have tapped or been in rehab in a couple weeks nursing his arm back to health for another title run.[/quote'] I actually repsect him more for not pulling a Royce or Mir. Jones has the belt and deserves it, but Vitor is a champ in my book too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rule_abiding_poster Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 I actually repsect him more for not pulling a Royce or Mir. Jones has the belt and deserves it' date=' but Vitor is a champ in my book too[/quote'] Agreed. Vitor won the fight last night via Tko(armbar) and is the official LHW champ again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Jones elbow was already near breaking point' date=' that's why Vitor lost the grip, that and the two times he got dropped on his head.[/quote'] I respect your opinion, but I think it was more of Vitor letting Jon keep his arm instead of Jon taking it back. Look at Jon Jones though. Anyone who has been in an armbar knows how quick that **** can go from "no threat" to "oh ****! my arms about to break." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaman Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 I respect your opinion' date=' but I think it was more of Vitor letting Jon keep his arm instead of Jon taking it back. Look at Jon Jones though. Anyone who has been in an armbar knows how quick that **** can go from "no threat" to "oh ****! my arms about to break."[/quote'] Yeah, Jones said in an interview he was coming to terms with the fact he was about to lose so it was very close indeed. What Jones said to Rogan on the post fight interview makes a lot of sense, when he started talking about his BJJ training being a little forgotten, this is the 6th time in a row he faces a fighter with a stronger striking base than grappling. He needs to work on it more for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Yeah' date=' Jones said in an interview he was coming to terms with the fact he was about to lose so it was very close indeed. What Jones said to Rogan on the post fight interview makes a lot of sense, when he started talking about his BJJ training being a little forgotten, this is the 6th time in a row he faces a fighter with a stronger striking base than grappling. He needs to work on it more for sure.[/quote'] Just like 151 was a learning experience for Jones, I think 152 will be the greatest learning experiece. You have to get some BJJ in your life. The dude is only 25 too. Can you imagine Jon a BJJ black belt 6 years from now or even a blue belt a year from now??? He hasn't even fully explored his striking. He just got started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaman Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Just like 151 was a learning experience for Jones' date=' I think 152 will be the greatest learning experiece. You have to get some BJJ in your life. The dude is only 25 too. Can you imagine Jon a BJJ black belt 6 years from now or even a blue belt a year from now??? He hasn't even fully explored his striking. He just got started.[/quote'] That's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furiousmat Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 I think it's a mistake.. If you see the guy taping already and the ref takes time to come in, it would of course be classy not to rip the limp even more cuz it's pointless. But in the case the guy just refuses to tap that's his own decision he knows what's going on. It's shocking that guys training every day of their life in BJJ would actually feel bad for going through with a submission. What's the point of learning BJJ if you never learn to get along with the idea of actually going through with the move. It's a big flaw if you ask me.. guys should definitely spend more time reallising that once you've got that arm you might actually have to break it.. that's the whole point of the move.. It's like.. you can spend your whole life at a shooting range if when the time comes you don't have the guts to pull the trigger that was all for nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 I think it's a mistake.. If you see the guy taping already and the ref takes time to come in' date=' it would of course be classy not to rip the limp even more cuz it's pointless. But in the case the guy just refuses to tap that's his own decision he knows what's going on. It's shocking that guys training every day of their life in BJJ would actually feel bad for going through with a submission. What's the point of learning BJJ if you never learn to get along with the idea of actually going through with the move. It's a big flaw if you ask me.. guys should definitely spend more time reallising that once you've got that arm you might actually have to break it.. that's the whole point of the move.. It's like.. you can spend your whole life at a shooting range if when the time comes you don't have the guts to pull the trigger that was all for nothing...[/quote'] I agree 100%, but what if people start going 100% in BJJ? You would have a lot less partners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokerman Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 The problem with your analysis of training BJJ and therefore not going 100% in a fight is 1) the amount of fighters that doesn't apply to (Frank Mir, I'm looking at you) and 2) most people train BJJ in the first place to learn how to do exactly that. No one stops choking someone before they go unconscious. I train BJJ too and in a tournament, depending on my opponent, I would most likely not break the guy's arm. However, most BJJ people also know when they have been caught and that tapping is just the gentlemen's thing to do. However, an MMA fight is not a tournament. It's a fight. Big, big mistake by Vitor if indeed it is true (I have doubts). That was likely his only shot at winning that belt and he let it slip by, literally. An additional word: In the post-fight interview when asked if he was on the verge of tapping Jones replied by saying "No. I was waiting for it to break. I trained too hard to tap, I wasn't going to give in" or something to that effect. What caught me was the tone he used when he said it. It sounded very much to me that what he was actually saying is "I was expecting it to break. I had already resigned myself to the fact I had lost the match and the arm, but I had too much pride to tap and was just waiting for it to snap." Which would seem to support Vitor's assertion that he eased up. To me it seems even Jones himself knew the arm was gone and just waiting to be broken like Silvia's. It would have been a HUGE night if indeed that had happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaman Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 The problem with your analysis of training BJJ and therefore not going 100% in a fight is 1) the amount of fighters that doesn't apply to (Frank Mir' date=' I'm looking at you) and 2) most people train BJJ in the first place to learn how to do exactly that. No one stops choking someone before they go unconscious. I train BJJ too and in a tournament, depending on my opponent, I would most likely not break the guy's arm. However, most BJJ people also know when they have been caught and that tapping is just the gentlemen's thing to do. However, an MMA fight is not a tournament. It's a fight. Big, big mistake by Vitor if indeed it is true (I have doubts). That was likely his only shot at winning that belt and he let it slip by, literally. An additional word: In the post-fight interview when asked if he was on the verge of tapping Jones replied by saying "No. I was waiting for it to break. I trained too hard to tap, I wasn't going to give in" or something to that effect. What caught me was the tone he used when he said it. It sounded very much to me that what he was actually saying is "I was expecting it to break. I had already resigned myself to the fact I had lost the match and the arm, but I had too much pride to tap and was just waiting for it to snap." Which would seem to support Vitor's assertion that he eased up. To me it seems even Jones himself knew the arm was gone and just waiting to be broken like Silvia's. It would have been a HUGE night if indeed that had happened.[/quote'] You're right, JBJ said he was already coming to terms with the fact that he was going to lose like that, he said so in an interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaze_Into_My_Eyes Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Dana is obviously paying people off and building his own "Fedor ". Only black and with no personality and a terrible tolerence to alcohol and poles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckstars23 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Huge mistake from vitor i dont understand fighters easing up on limb submissions because they care too much about the man elbowing them in the face... more submissions fighters like frank mir needed imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnages Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 He eased up on the armbar for sure, he thought Jones would tap, and then it was too late to tighten again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdGOAT Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Vitor's so humble and nice that he gave the fight away to Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnages Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Vitor's so humble and nice that he gave the fight away to Jones. He is too religous to break someone's arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StompGrind Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Classy but he should have Housey'd that arm and took it home with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipso_facto Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Vitor's kind heart was the reason for backing off. But he regretted doing so, hence the reason for him continually pulling guard after that...he wanted that opportunity back. If someone's too stubborn to tap...tear it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePack19 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Amateur mistake. He clearly loosened it' date=' and right when he did that Jones countered. Just for that, he doesn't deserve to be champion. You have to be ruthless like Palhares, Rousey and Mir.[/quote'] Vitor needs to GTFO and be done with UFC. You are fighting a CHAMPION and have the title at your fingertips........he is not thinking about Jones safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Can Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 ronda rousey would have beat him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Amateur mistake. He clearly loosened it' date=' and right when he did that Jones countered. Just for that, he doesn't deserve to be champion. You have to be ruthless like Palhares, Rousey and Mir.[/quote'] Ok buddy. Take your BJJ black belt and get in there and show us how it's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 ronda rousey would have beat him Funny but true. If Rousey was in that position, she would have had that arm at her local taxidermist right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayzee Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 It does not matter.. Should have, would have, could have.... :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerkJitsu Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 to me, last night showed that both men won the fight. A lot of people had hoped Vitor would win, but no one thought he would win or come close. Vitor proved many wrong. While I believe that Vitor should broke Jon's arm I do believe that Vitor eased up. He's one of the most legit black belts and had the arm locked. For those who believe BJJ is pointless to learn if you can't break an arm at will, well that's a fine argument to make if you are street fighting a robber or whoever, but this was a competition. It was classy of Vitor to stop since Jon was not going to tap. In my opinion, Vitor won last night having shown that he damaged Jon's arm and could have broken it. In addition, he showed amazing heart and skills and despite his hand injury. Jon also was the winner, obviously. But I respect Jon more than ever. He showed heart and determination not to quit. He is THE champ here to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattN Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Don't think so... Belfort has killer instinct, just watch his fights. All pro fighters know not to give mercy as you shall receive none, unless the ref stops it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted September 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Don't think so... Belfort has killer instinct' date=' just watch his fights.All pro fighters know not to give mercy as you shall receive none, unless the ref stops it.[/quote'] Then why did he say he eased up? I don't see Vitor as the type to make excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaman Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Then why did he say he eased up? I don't see Vitor as the type to make excuses Check out Vitor's twiter. He said he did not let go of his arm at all... Guys' date=' it was mistranslated. I didn't let his arm go at all - i flinched after hearing a "click" and lost it for a second, after that he escaped well. his merit, my mistake.[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetatronBJJ Posted September 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Check out Vitor's twiter. He said he did not let go of his arm at all... What?? do you have the link? He said at the post fight press conference that he did ease up. Did the americana mess his brain up? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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