Gabri1985 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/10/21/wisconsin-spa-shooting.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL4TRU_STRENGTH Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Two possible directions this will take: 1 - advocating effective methods for conflict resolution 2 - blame guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Two possible directions this will take: 1 - advocating effective methods for conflict resolution 2 - blame guns Neither of which this forum proclaimed "bleeding heart liberal" agrees with. I know, silly me and my anti-gun control liberalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarbinger Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 God I hate seeing this ****. Tears me up, those were mothers, daughters, wives... So many people left in agony over their loss. I do not however, believe guns are to blame in any way. People have been murdering people long before firearms came around. And honestly, if making Marijuana illegal doesn't stop everybody that wants to get some getting their hands on it, I don't believe guns would be any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL4TRU_STRENGTH Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 God I hate seeing this ****. Tears me up' date=' those were mothers, daughters, wives... So many people left in agony over their loss. I do not however, believe guns are to blame in any way. People have been murdering people long before firearms came around. And honestly, if making Marijuana illegal doesn't stop everybody that wants to get some getting their hands on it, I don't believe guns would be any different.[/quote'] You sir, get the truth award of the day Excellent post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarbinger Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 You sir' date=' get the truth award of the day Excellent post![/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor_Obviously Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 This happened 40 minutes away. I go to that mall. So did Jeffrey Dahmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_told_you_so Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 All well and good coming on to a forum and saying, yeah everyone should have guns. Maybe you would change your tune if it was your wife, mother, daughter shot at random. But hey, it is easy having opinions when it only affects other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobercuban Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Everyone should have guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_told_you_so Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Everyone should have guns. Especially people with drug and alcohol problems. Maybe they do the world a favour and blow their own brains out instead of going emo in a shopping mall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come_at_me Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I would like to know what his ex did to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL4TRU_STRENGTH Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Everyone should have guns. Indeed. But not everyone should have a car. Take away a persons transportation and they might think twice about shooting up some public place if they have to actually walk their lazy asses there!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobercuban Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Especially people with drug and alcohol problems. Maybe they do the world a favour and blow their own brains out instead of going emo in a shopping mall. lol still gotten to? Indeed. But not everyone should have a car. Take away a persons transportation and they might think twice about shooting up some public place if they have to actually walk their lazy asses there!!! ^this 32,885 people were killed in car accidents in 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonie Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 All well and good coming on to a forum and saying' date=' yeah everyone should have guns. Maybe you would change your tune if it was your wife, mother, daughter shot at random. But hey, it is easy having opinions when it only affects other people.[/quote'] When I was small, one of my mom's best friends was killed like this. She had left her crazy boyfriend, hidden, he found her at her new job and shot her in the face. That was the first funeral I went to. I will always own a gun and maintain ccw permits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabri1985 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Without stricter laws on guns this will happen time and time again, i don't get why people who own guns can't see that guns are part of the problem, its the quickest and most efficient way of killing multiple people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobercuban Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Without stricter laws on guns this will happen time and time again' date=' i don't get why people who own guns can't see that guns are part of the problem, its the quickest and most efficient way of killing multiple people.[/quote'] I prefer to do my killing with paper plates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonie Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Without stricter laws on guns this will happen time and time again' date=' i don't get why people who own guns can't see that guns are part of the problem, its the quickest and most efficient way of killing multiple people.[/quote'] Yes, it is. However. MUCH gun crime occurs from lawless people who have illegally obtained the weapons and not properly permitted them. If laws were stricter, it doesn't take guns out of their hands, just out of the hands of people following the laws. Not arguing, just stating the basic reality for where we are right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I would like to know what his ex did to him. Nothing worth killing people over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabri1985 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Yes' date=' it is. However. MUCH gun crime occurs from lawless people who have illegally obtained the weapons and not properly permitted them. If laws were stricter, it doesn't take guns out of their hands, just out of the hands of people following the laws. Not arguing, just stating the basic reality for where we are right now.[/quote']I mean even if you banned anyone with a criminal record from owning a gun (i mean any form of criminal record) have one gun per person (maybe even household), no semi/automatic weapons, shotguns things like that, just a plain old hand gun. If a guy wants guns for hunting fair enough but he has to have his hunters licence and leave his gun in a locker when he picks it up drops his other gun off. get caught breaking any of these laws and its right to prison. Would any of the above stop this 100% of course not but it would be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL4TRU_STRENGTH Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Without stricter laws on guns this will happen time and time again' date=' i don't get why people who own guns can't see that guns are part of the problem, its the quickest and most efficient way of killing multiple people.[/quote'] Just curious, what measures would you like to be seen taken? What else can we do that we arent already enabled or obligated by law to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabri1985 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Just curious' date=' what measures would you like to be seen taken? What else can we do that we arent already enabled or obligated by law to do?[/quote']see above post at some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL4TRU_STRENGTH Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I mean even if you banned anyone with a criminal record from owning a gun (i mean any form of criminal record) have one gun per person (maybe even household)' date=' no semi/automatic weapons, shotguns things like that, just a plain old hand gun. If a guy wants guns for hunting fair enough but he has to have his hunters licence and leave his gun in a locker when he picks it up drops his other gun off. get caught breaking any of these laws and its right to prison. Would any of the above stop this 100% of course not but it would be a start.[/quote'] You assume a person with just a "regular" handgun is a safer choice - but based on what? I have a few things to say about your premise here, but I'd rather you walk us through your own rational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonie Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I mean even if you banned anyone with a criminal record from owning a gun (i mean any form of criminal record) have one gun per person (maybe even household)' date=' no semi/automatic weapons, shotguns things like that, just a plain old hand gun. If a guy wants guns for hunting fair enough but he has to have his hunters licence and leave his gun in a locker when he picks it up drops his other gun off. get caught breaking any of these laws and its right to prison. Would any of the above stop this 100% of course not but it would be a start.[/quote'] But it doesn't address that most crimes occur outside of your listed parameters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL4TRU_STRENGTH Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 But it doesn't address that most crimes occur outside of your listed parameters. I honestly dont think hes capable of seeing that aspect yet, as hes clearly focused on the actual guns used, and not the manner in which they are acquired or used. And I say that with sincerity and not to belittle him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabri1985 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 You assume a person with just a "regular" handgun is a safer choice - but based on what? I have a few things to say about your premise here' date=' but I'd rather you walk us through your own rational.[/quote']My rational is simply this, it wouldn't of mattered what kind of gun this guy had, but in other cases it could of made a difference. with a hand gun your talking what 20 bullets a mag top end (i would suspect that's around the highest for a normal hand gun) a machine gun can carry 100+ bullets and can kill with much less skill, shotguns depending on the kind of bullets can take out quite a few people in a small space with a single shot. There is no need for these kind of weapons to be on sale for joe average, you want to try one go to your local gun range and give it a go. did you also know Of the 139 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyFeet Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 This can always be prevented if just ONE victim was armed. I'd rather the gunman be dead than a bunch of innocents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL4TRU_STRENGTH Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 My rational is simply this' date=' it wouldn't of mattered what kind of gun this guy had, but in other cases it could of made a difference. [b']with a hand gun your talking what 20 bullets a mag top end (i would suspect that's around the highest for a normal hand gun) a machine gun can carry 100+ bullets and can kill with much less skill, shotguns depending on the kind of bullets can take out quite a few people in a small space with a single shot.[/b] There is no need for these kind of weapons to be on sale for joe average, you want to try one go to your local gun range and give it a go. did you also know Of the 139 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally. BINGO Thanks for being honest, as I feel this is the crux of the anti gun movement - that certain types of guns are just somehow more inherently dangerous than others. Heres the problem with that logic; a trained shooter is considerably more dangerous with a handgun and 20 or less bullets than most avg joes with an assault rifle. So then, you might be tempted to conclude that because most arent that well trained, that somehow you are correct. Well, heres the catch - are a few people killed by a simple handgun any less dead than a crowd of people gunned down by some tricked out assault rifle? Do you honestly feel better knowing only a few people died as opposed to maybe 5 or more? I dunno about you, but in my world, dead is dead, and as such, whether I am the lone victim or among a crowd, it doesnt matter - I'd rather our efforts be focused on me not dying at all - period - than simply trying to reduce how many other die along with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabri1985 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 BINGO Thanks for being honest' date=' as I feel this is the crux of the anti gun movement - that certain types of guns are just somehow more inherently dangerous than others. Heres the problem with that logic; a trained shooter is considerably more dangerous with a handgun and 20 or less bullets than most avg joes with an assault rifle. So then, you might be tempted to conclude that because most arent that well trained, that somehow you are correct. Well, heres the catch - are a few people killed by a simple handgun any less dead than a crowd of people gunned down by some tricked out assault rifle? Do you honestly feel better knowing only a few people died as opposed to maybe 5 or more? I dunno about you, but in my world, dead is dead, and as such, whether I am the lone victim or among a crowd, it doesnt matter - I'd rather our efforts be focused on me not dying at all - period - than simply trying to reduce how many other die along with me.[/quote']well yes i do think we should be trying to reduce how many die in any given situation. also what do you think to this info that i put in my other post did you also know Of the 139 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL4TRU_STRENGTH Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 well yes i do think we should be trying to reduce how many die in any given situation. also what do you think to this info that i put in my other post did you also know Of the 139 guns possessed by the killers' date=' more than three quarters were obtained legally.[/b'] So, if you were the lone victim, would you feel any less dead? Just wondering... Ok, and? You wont be happy until most guns - if not all of them - are locked up and/or banned, so what solution are you trying to convey that we could both agree on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Kang Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 This happened 40 minutes away. I go to that mall. So did Jeffrey Dahmer. You know Jeffrey Dahmer....... staying away from this guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabri1985 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 So' date=' if you were the lone victim, would you feel any less dead? Just wondering... Ok, and? You wont be happy until most guns - if not all of them - are locked up and/or banned, so what solution are you trying to convey that we could both agree on?[/quote']If i had the solution if or anyone did it would be in place now, but that doesn't mean we should stop looking for it. Why does anyone need more then one gun? The fact that most of these guns were acquired through legal channels means there not going to the guy on the street to get them, there just walking into a shop and picking what they want. Hey if you have to limit there ammo aswel I would of course still be dead but that doesn't mean i would wish others to go down with me, why would i or anyone want that? The way i look at it is like this, if just one life is saved then it was worth doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonie Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 If i had the solution if or anyone did it would be in place now' date=' but that doesn't mean we should stop looking for it. [b']Why does anyone need more then one gun?[/b] The fact that most of these guns were acquired through legal channels means there not going to the guy on the street to get them, there just walking into a shop and picking what they want. Hey if you have to limit there ammo aswel I would of course still be dead but that doesn't mean i would wish others to go down with me, why would i or anyone want that? The way i look at it is like this, if just one life is saved then it was worth doing. I don't know what killers you are referring to with 139 guns, but that isn't normal. I DO have more than one though, for various reasons including specific use and many were gifts. Gun sprees get the news, but gun violence in cities is so commonplace it barely gets a mention... but is still high and from mostly illegally obtained weapons. Massacre type shootings are more of a psychological issue than a gun control issue. It sucks, but it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabri1985 Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 I don't know what killers you are referring to with 139 guns' date=' but that isn't normal. I DO have more than one though, for various reasons including specific use and many were gifts. Gun sprees get the news, but gun violence in cities is so commonplace it barely gets a mention... but is still high and from mostly illegally obtained weapons. Massacre type shootings are more of a psychological issue than a gun control issue. It sucks, but it is.[/quote']the 139 guns was the total of guns used, not the amount used by one guy lol. So why do you need more then one gun to shoot a target with? it's the same result is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonie Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 thSo why do you need more then one gun to shoot a target with? it's the same result is it not? For keeping in fast action safes, hunting, concealed carry vs open carry, and again I have duplicates that were gifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Kang Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 the 139 guns was the total of guns used' date=' not the amount used by one guy lol. So why do you need more then one gun to shoot a target with? it's the same result is it not?[/quote'] Z day homie. One rifle for long range then a pistol with decent clip size for closer range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRIDEneverDIED Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 i currently am not allowed to possess a firearm because of a completely non violent crime, and i couldnt hurt a fly, gun or not im very peaceful...could i obtain a gun illegally? yes...do i? no...should i be able to have a gun in my opinion? yes...would i ever use it on someone even if it meant my life or theirs? no...gun control is a weird thing eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerChamp Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Two possible directions this will take: 1 - advocating effective methods for conflict resolution 2 - blame guns i blame guns the world has to many guns' date=' and not enough dragonborn [img']http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-309kf099WKI/T_F-pliQ3CI/AAAAAAAAHvk/NakLAT_94ms/s640/skyrim-costume-cosplay.png[/img] only 3 dead? thats pitiful. My level 63 redguard would have sacked the whole village and stolen all of their sweetrolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor_Obviously Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 You know Jeffrey Dahmer....... staying away from this guy I'm from Wisconsin. Not just home of Jeffrey Dahmer, but also Ed Gein, Laverne and Shirley, cheese and beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerChamp Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 sounds like a party! you should photoshop it! you know. bunch of psychopath killers just hangin out, havin a good time, getting together with lavern and shirley, all sharing a laugh while eating cheese and drinkng beer together. yes doc. prescribe me some of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jduk Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 If the guy didn't have a gun, he couldn't have shot those people, that much is obvious, but slowly I'm coming round to the idea the conceal carry is the best option available here, as far as normal, rational people are concerned, for defence purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL4TRU_STRENGTH Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 If i had the solution if or anyone did it would be in place now' date=' but that doesn't mean we should stop looking for it. Why does anyone need more then one gun? The fact that most of these guns were acquired through legal channels means there not going to the guy on the street to get them, there just walking into a shop and picking what they want. Hey if you have to limit there ammo aswel I would of course still be dead but that doesn't mean i would wish others to go down with me, why would i or anyone want that? The way i look at it is like this, if just one life is saved then it was worth doing.[/quote'] Heres the point, and while I am not sure you will actually get it, I hope you will at least try to, even if you disagree; yes, it feels good to presume it matters if your in some way "reducing" the number of deaths caused by shootings. However, the bottom line needs to be, what will it take to deter people from resorting to this manner of violence at all? IMHO, one life lost is too much and need not be marginalized as in any way acceptable or tolerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fobar Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 If the guy didn't have a gun' date=' he couldn't have shot those people, that much is obvious,[b'] but slowly I'm coming round to the idea the conceal carry is the best option available here[/b], as far as normal, rational people are concerned, for defence purposes. IMO that has always been the best option, anywhere. especially here in the UK with rising gun crime and the current gun laws we have. I am one of the minority that has a permit and if I go to certain areas never leave home without my 2, so I am better protected than the police on paroling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarbinger Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 IMO that has always been the best option' date=' anywhere. especially here in the UK with rising gun crime and the current gun laws we have. I am one of the minority that has a permit and if I go to certain areas never leave home without my 2, [b']so I am better protected than the police office paroling[/b] That's ****ed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fobar Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 That's ****ed up. UK baby, where the police can have the power to say 'Stop Police' and wait for a kid to pull a gun a start firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarbinger Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 UK baby' date=' where the police can have the power to say 'Stop Police' and wait for a kid to pull a gun a start firing.[/quote'] What happens if a crazy gunman starts shooting civilians in broad daylight in the street? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fobar Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 What happens if a crazy gunman starts shooting civilians in broad daylight in the street? people run for cover and we have to wait for the gun unit to arrive, luckily we dont get that scenario very often but gangs have more guns than they ever have and Police patrolling the estates have none. they may have a Taser tho or if I was in the area I would shoot them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarbinger Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 people run for cover and we have to wait for the gun unit to arrive' date=' luckily we dont get that scenario very often but gangs have more guns than they ever have and Police patrolling the estates have none. they may have a Taser tho or if I was in the area I would shoot them[/quote'] I don't understand, why aren't UK police allowed to carry fire arms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL4TRU_STRENGTH Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Just curious, is there any kind of push to arm the police? How do unarmed police respond to armed criminals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jduk Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 people run for cover and we have to wait for the gun unit to arrive' date=' luckily we dont get that scenario very often but gangs have more guns than they ever have and Police patrolling the estates have none. they may have a Taser tho or if I was in the area I would shoot them[/quote'] how do you have a permit? from your military service? I could get one for a hunting rifle/shotgun but not for general carry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fobar Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Just curious' date=' is there any kind of push to arm the police? How do unarmed police respond to armed criminals?[/quote'] there is know push for armed police and they are supposed to wait for back up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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