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The progression of British fighters


NangaParbatWinter16

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I know we had guys like Remedios, Freeman, thompson etc fight in the UFC before he came along but Mike Bisping is of course our first true contender. Easily the face of UK MMA the emergence of the count should have seen a steady rise in British contenders but it simply never happened. John Hathaway still could be a challenger depending how his body holds up (he has Crohns disease too) but there is no one else. Guys like Pearson etc are top ten gatekeepers and Jojo has not filled her potential.

 

Does there need to be a radical shake up of the Gyms in the UK? Or is it simply down to lack of talent?

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Michael "the cyclops" Spitscan is going to get his eyebrows waxed with one punch this weekend, and Androsterone is a washed up bum!

 

I don't think I can even watch. It's going to be too sad to watch Patster's post fight rustle!

 

Don't lie bro

 

I KNOW you KNOW that Michael is going to body that steroid using can

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Michael "the cyclops" Spitscan is going to get his eyebrows waxed with one punch this weekend, and Androsterone is a washed up bum!

 

I don't think I can even watch. It's going to be too sad to watch Patster's post fight rustle!

Mike's eye has worried me since the accident happened, I would bet my savings he has under 80% vision out of that eye

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The British are not athletes.

 

They are shop keepers and perhaps good at writing sonnets.

How dare you express even the slightest doubt in our sonnet-writing abilities?

 

OP seems to have forgotten about Dan Hardy, but otherwise, it's a valid point.

 

Fundamentally though, the "issue" (if it is even an issue) is more related to the Brits' inability to wrestle.  As far as I can tell, wrestling is a huge part of American school sports and a lot of top MMA fighters have a strong wrestling base.  So a shake up of the gyms would not really solve the issue of very few Brits having solid wrestling fundamentals.

 

I'm not that fussed tbh honest; I'd rather we get better at football, rugby and cricket than MMA.

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How dare you express even the slightest doubt in our sonnet-writing abilities?

 

OP seems to have forgotten about Dan Hardy, but otherwise, it's a valid point.

 

Fundamentally though, the "issue" (if it is even an issue) is more related to the Brits' inability to wrestle. As far as I can tell, wrestling is a huge part of American school sports and a lot of top MMA fighters have a strong wrestling base. So a shake up of the gyms would not really solve the issue of very few Brits having solid wrestling fundamentals.

 

I'm not that fussed tbh honest; I'd rather we get better at football, rugby and cricket than MMA.

The wrestling at a school level is literally THE key point to America's dominance in MMA and other countries being a bit slow to catch up. We're too busy shagging girls in high school to be touching other dudes butts 25/8
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The wrestling at a school level is literally THE key point to America's dominance in MMA and other countries being a bit slow to catch up. We're too busy shagging girls in high school to being touching other dudes butts 25/8

lol :lol:  

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We do have some cracking fighters and have had some cracking fighters like Pearson, Hardy, Daley, and we have exciting talent at home but they are all not good enough when it comes to the elite in MMA (Hardy got an undeserved title shot and was completely dominated). Bisping is the only one that has been a mainstay in a divisions top ten for years though Pickett was relevant for a good while at lower weights. Even so the talent coming through is still too rare at the moment, I thought Bisping's arrival would have marked the beginning of Brit fighters securing title shots, titles, numerous top tens etc but it just has not happened and it genuinely amazes me because I go to a lot of pro and amatuer shows around the UK and we do have the natural talent but the fighters just do not seem to progress past a certain stage

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There is a lot of British talent but they're too busy stacking funds in Bellator for casual fans to recognise.

 

Bisping at his absolute BEST is always just gonna be a guy who beat Charles McCarthy in 2008

 

Liam McGeary is a perfect highlighter of my point, The guy is English but trains and fights out of the States, has never even fought over here yet is definitely a top 10 Light heavy in the world. Does that highlight my point about British gyms holding back the fighters? Bisping seemed to improve too when a bunch of yanks joined Wolfslair

 

As a PS the llad McGeary is actually ranked #9 Light heavy by Sherdog

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Liam McGeary is a perfect highlighter of my point, The guy is English but trains and fights out of the States, has never even fought over here yet is definitely a top 10 Light heavy in the world. Does that highlight my point about British gyms holding back the fighters? Bisping seemed to improve too when a bunch of yanks joined Wolfslair

 

As a PS the llad McGeary is actually ranked #9 Light heavy by Sherdog

McGeary wouldn't even be TOP 10 in the UFC. But he's good, not UFC championship material, but he's not bad.

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McGeary wouldn't even be TOP 10 in the UFC. But he's good, not UFC championship material, but he's not bad.

McGeary would need to make the obligatory weight cut to enter the UFC and be a giant WCC boss at WW. I honestly think MVP is potentially a future UFC Champ
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McGeary would need to make the obligatory weight cut to enter the UFC and be a giant WCC boss at WW. I honestly think MVP is potentially a future UFC Champ

 

 

Page is a very exciting guy his striking is crazy and I remember him winning at the troxy with a crazy spinning kick and then he just stood there not even looking at his opponent  he just knew it was finished. My worry is when he starts facing powerful wrestlers though he is a London Shootfighter and trains with John Hathaway so his wrestling will not be poor

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6RbnOg0q2Y

 

Not sure if you have seen it but here is that kick finish I was talking about

yeah I know the one. Guys a monster - I think his TDD will be ok, Bellator would be smart to throw him in against some of the stronger Sambo fighters they have to test his TDD for the inevitable move to UFC
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Biggest aspect for me still remains the grappling.

 

The freestyle and Greco wrestling styles might be getting more accessible in the uk in terms of training for mma but its still something very few kids have access to from a young age or in schools and realistically that's when you want to be getting in to it.

 

BJJ is at that stage where its just starting to become more popular and become something you see outside of mma.

 

Most people still think Sambo are Adidas trainers.

 

Judo is probably the most popular grappling form in the uk and although it is good training it doesn't give fighters the full repertoire of grappling moves they need. 

 

 

The Driving double/single leg takedowns is the main thing British fighters in terms of grappling need to improve in my opinion. Until they do that they will never be able to grind out decisions in close fights that are often decided by a couple of takedowns.

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No one has mentioned Darren Till... Very bright future and English

Till looked great for 2 rounds, but after his shoulder injury during his last fight he barely hung in there.

 

 

breese till, mvp mcgeary are the future of uk mma

 

uk has a bellator champ and not many countries outside of brazil, russia and america could even accomplish that.  Aus for example probably wont ever have a bellator champ

 

bisping has always sucked

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Lee Murray is a guy I know personally and he is one very very scary man, This was a guy who had a successful MMA career in front of him but thought F**K it and went after the big one a £52 million robbery!! Trust me when I say this guy knew violence and was honestly a frightening guy. I really believe he would have went on to become our very best fighter had he not decided to go become a legend in other circles.

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I call it how I see it.

Jokes aside, your son wrestles in tournaments right? From what you've said, it's a decent, competitive standard.

There is just no equivalent over here for kids.

 

This is why pretty much every British fighter ultimately comes unstuck when they face a decent grappler. No one grows up with it.

 

 

Whereas boxing...we've had more than our fair share of boxing champs because there's am infrastructure in place for boxing.

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Jokes aside, your son wrestles in tournaments right? From what you've said, it's a decent, competitive standard.

There is just no equivalent over here for kids.

 

This is why pretty much every British fighter ultimately comes unstuck when they face a decent grappler. No one grows up with it.

 

 

Whereas boxing...we've had more than our fair share of boxing champs because there's am infrastructure in place for boxing.

It is only really us the MMA fans who actually know that wrestling is an actual sport and not just a fake entertainment industry, So much so they nearly kicked it out of the Olympics (In the UK I mean about only mma fans knowing)

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Page is a very exciting guy his striking is crazy and I remember him winning at the troxy with a crazy spinning kick and then he just stood there not even looking at his opponent  he just knew it was finished. My worry is when he starts facing powerful wrestlers though he is a London Shootfighter and trains with John Hathaway so his wrestling will not be poor

 

Page is the future of the entire sport, not just British MMA.

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I know we had guys like Remedios, Freeman, thompson etc fight in the UFC before he came along but Mike Bisping is of course our first true contender. Easily the face of UK MMA the emergence of the count should have seen a steady rise in British contenders but it simply never happened. John Hathaway still could be a challenger depending how his body holds up (he has Crohns disease too) but there is no one else. Guys like Pearson etc are top ten gatekeepers and Jojo has not filled her potential.

 

Does there need to be a radical shake up of the Gyms in the UK? Or is it simply down to lack of talent?

I don't think it's either or. I think it's lack of talent and gyms at the same time. 

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Jokes aside, your son wrestles in tournaments right? From what you've said, it's a decent, competitive standard.

There is just no equivalent over here for kids.

 

This is why pretty much every British fighter ultimately comes unstuck when they face a decent grappler. No one grows up with it.

 

 

Whereas boxing...we've had more than our fair share of boxing champs because there's am infrastructure in place for boxing.

There are a few notable Jitz guys over there though. Roger Gracie and Braulio Estima being the most notable. 

 

Problem is your culture is still stuck in the stone age of MMA. i.e. everyone still has that 80's mentality and just wants to throw hands but none want to learn to grapple and few learn how to kick. Just a bunch of wanna be pub pugilists that think combat is only putting your dukes up and if you grapple or kick you're not a man. 

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Bisping like Crom said is a good wrestler he has proven that against the likes of Sonnen, Evans etc and Hathaway is an above average wrestler having won medals here in the UK in wrestling. It could simply be lack of elite coaches so maybe we should be looking at getting a young up and coming coach to relocate here lol

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Bisping like Crom said is a good wrestler he has proven that against the likes of Sonnen, Evans etc and Hathaway is an above average wrestler having won medals here in the UK in wrestling. It could simply be lack of elite coaches so maybe we should be looking at getting a young up and coming coach to relocate here lol

I think Bisping is a decent wrestler now, but still got fairly dominated by Kennedy.

Hathaway is also an above average wrestler but not a world class wrestler (he's certainly no Kosheck or Fitch for example)

 

However, I still think that fundamentally most British fighters start with good striking fundamentals and poor grappling; most American fighters start the other way round.  And as has been proven countless times, a good wrestler will generally beat a good striker.

 

Getting decent wrestling coaches would in my view only deal with the symptoms, but not the root cause.  WC fighters could still be produced (e.g GSO had no wrestling background), but I think they will be few and far between.

 

What may happen though over the net few years is that as MMA gets much more popular over here you will get a lot more people training all aspects from an early age, which will certainly help.

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I actually approached my oldest sons school a few years back and told them I had a Commonwealth games standard wrestler willing to coach kids after school for free. The head teacher looked at me like i had offered to teach the kids how to fire handguns, she told me to ask the education board which I did and it was refused on health and safety grounds .... Absolutely ridiculous

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