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24 minutes ago, cashfl0w said:

If you had to say it like this, instead of using a cute word like 'abortion', this would not be a thing.

FACT.

The people that get in a tizzy over abortion generally aren't in a tizzy on guns, cars or wars or anything else that kills masses of people in numbers that we could do something to avoid but no one wants to go there because what we'd have to give up a way of life to prevent so we shup up about that or only protest it a little. 

That's the part i find interesting with people wanting others to have a say in other peoples affairs and try to guilt trip them. That's why people are so divided on this issue. 

The fact that it's babies makes it way more inhumane but it probably shouldn't be if they take that stance then it should be equal. They should be just as outraged on non abortion life/death issues but people largely aren't. 

FACT

 

 

Edited by StompGrind
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9 minutes ago, StompGrind said:

The people that get in a tizzy over abortion generally aren't in a tizzy on guns, cars or wars or anything else that kills masses of people in numbers that we could do something to avoid but no one wants to go there because what we'd have to give up a way of life to prevent so we shup up about that or only protest it a little. 

That's the part i find interesting with people wanting others to have a say in other peoples affairs and try to guilt trip them. That's why people are so divided on this issue. 

The fact that it's babies makes it way more inhumane but it probably shouldn't be if they take that stance then it should be equal. They should be just as outraged on non abortion life/death issues but people largely aren't. 

FACT

 

 

If it helps, I believe that it is wrong for a human to take the life of another regardless of the implement they use. 

But just as you won't find me campaigning to ban guns, you also won't find me campaigning to ban scalpels and forceps, or cars for that matter. 

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as a privileged white canadian male, i will have all the abortions that i want.    i dont care what the other dudes do with their bodies or their rape babies inside of them. it aint my business

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17 minutes ago, Bubba_Sparks said:

If it helps, I believe that it is wrong for a human to take the life of another regardless of the implement they use. 

But just as you won't find me campaigning to ban guns, you also won't find me campaigning to ban scalpels and forceps, or cars for that matter. 

That's fair. 

The way i look it is regardless of how immoral it may seem i don't view unborn about 6-9 weeks as i said as the same as a developed fetus. Maybe that's not scientifically accurate but i just don't. 

Is your take all the way at the moment of conception or a fertilized egg it's life? Like if someone used say plan B the day after sex do you consider that as a murder? If we could prove it should they be charged with murder? .....That's a bit far on the pro-life side if you ask me...

I view abortion within reason again up to about 6-9 weeks as a necessary tool to curb population & frankly it's mostly libs so we could use less of those lol. 

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Follow-up questions. 

Would you support abortion in the case of the rare medical emergency if the mother has a moderate to high chance of dying from complications? 

What about crack babies n such with super severe developmental complications? 

What about rape & incests? 

Are all these out of the question as well. 

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4 hours ago, Bubba_Sparks said:

In effect, you are proposing that convenience for the woman trumps a life. By that principle, we would also have to say that it's okay to kill a 3 year old if it's getting in the way of a woman's career, because her convenience and personal freedoms are more important than the life of her offspring. 

Except it's still inside the woman's body.  

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32 minutes ago, StompGrind said:

Follow-up questions. 

Would you support abortion in the case of the rare medical emergency if the mother has a moderate to high chance of dying from complications? 

What about crack babies n such with super severe developmental complications? 

What about rape & incests? 

Are all these out of the question as well. 

A No. As far as I'm aware, there's no condition where abortion increases the mother's chances of survival compared to delivering the child. Sadly in some instances that is way too early for the child to survive. 

B No. I've got a mate with a massively disabled kid. He has no regrets. Neither does the kid, even though life is tough. 

C No. Committing another moral crime doesn't somehow erase the one already committed. 

All that said - these account for around 0.02% of abortions. If we could stop the other 99.8% it would be a pretty strong step forward for society. 

I don't know enough about plan B to comment I'm afraid. 

I'm outta here for the rest of the day, but appreciate the civility of the discussion, @StompGrind. Usually these things just get written off as religious fanaticism, despite none of the arguments used being connected to religion, and a lot of supporters of the pro-life side being atheists. 

I'll tag in my colleague @SVTContour98 in case there are any further questions your honor. 

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2 hours ago, cashfl0w said:

If you had to say it like this, instead of using a cute word like 'abortion', this would not be a thing.

FACT.

Yes, nobody actually knows that it involves killing an unborn fetus. If that ever gets out nobody would do it. dumb a ss!

Edited by classicboxer
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8 minutes ago, classicboxer said:

Except it's still inside the woman's body.  

Why does the location of a life make a difference whether it's okay to kill it?

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38 minutes ago, Bubba_Sparks said:

A No. As far as I'm aware, there's no condition where abortion increases the mother's chances of survival compared to delivering the child. Sadly in some instances that is way too early for the child to survive. 

B No. I've got a mate with a massively disabled kid. He has no regrets. Neither does the kid, even though life is tough. 

C No. Committing another moral crime doesn't somehow erase the one already committed. 

All that said - these account for around 0.02% of abortions. If we could stop the other 99.8% it would be a pretty strong step forward for society. 

I don't know enough about plan B to comment I'm afraid. 

I'm outta here for the rest of the day, but appreciate the civility of the discussion, @StompGrind. Usually these things just get written off as religious fanaticism, despite none of the arguments used being connected to religion, and a lot of supporters of the pro-life side being atheists. 

I'll tag in my colleague @SVTContour98 in case there are any further questions your honor. 

All good. Not gonna lie i didn't like where the conversation was going when you started throwing out the heart strings stuff & calling people murderers. 🤣

Which is why i made those points about well aren't we all just hypocrites on other stuff we don't seem to get as up in arms about but maybe we should view a little more seriously. 

I don't agree with you on ABC but i respect your opinion & i can see a case for all of them. About plan B....I've had GF's use it b4. Also known as the day after pill. Can be effective for something like up to 4-5 days after but that's the limit. 

Plan B works like other birth control pills to prevent pregnancy. Plan B acts primarily by stopping the release of an egg from the ovary (ovulation). It may prevent the union of sperm and egg (fertilization). If fertilization does occur, Plan B may prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the womb (implantation).

On the topic against taking life at all ideally agree but i disagree on that for all situations. It's not because i think it's swell & i'd hope no one has to confront that but there is a cold reality to this world & it's ugly. 

Examples...

1. Self defense i'm ok with a person taking life if their life is in danger & they tried taking courses of action to avoid but could not. 

2. Police/military are often in scenarios were they have to in order to survive. Those scenarios there's a really thin line between doing their job & what's necessary or doing what's horrific or a collateral mistake or miscalculation of the job that they will have to live with. Intent & justification are often tricky here. Tough job but someone's gotta do it. 

3. When bad people do really evil $hit like take people hostage & things of that nature i'm A OK with protectors of life double tapping them in the face before they can end someone for whatever selfish or crazy reason. 

 

Edited by StompGrind

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40 minutes ago, classicboxer said:

Yes, nobody actually knows that it involves killing an unborn fetus.

Good call, they actually don't. In case you didnt know, the doctor actually doesn't detail what he's doing. In Illinois, at least. They make it seem like a simple surgical procedure, like they're sucking out a cancerous growth or something.

So yeah, if it was stated bluntly that you're scrambling a child inside of them, a lot of people would pass.

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6 hours ago, Bubba_Sparks said:

There is, however, life. 

All this talk of taking freedoms is a very strange argument. We don't have freedom to take someone else's property. We don't have freedom to force ourselves on someone sexually. And we don't have freedom to take another person's life. 

Every tired anti- abortion argument trotted out on these pages is a strawman argument... change my mind!

I doubt anyone will change your mind.

Just like I doubt  12er, Oz or anyone else's mind changes on any topic really.

We are all entrenched in our ideas and stubborn.

 

Myself, I dont believe that a zygote is a baby, I dont believe a fetus is a baby. I dont believe they have life at that point NY different than any other cluster if cells that grow in your body, good ones or bad.

That said, the do eventually grow into a child.

So I look at it like that. When it is at the stage if a child, I say the mothers can suck it up and have the child. Before that I dont see it any different than removing anything else from your body.

 

Change my mind?

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I'm Pro choice, and find confusion that the hard right is against abortion....yet have zero issues with stripping children from their mothers at the border, then deporting the mothers back home to Guatemala. Then ship the children off to foster homes in the US, like we OWN them at that point.

The inconsistency of that thought process baffles me to be honest, so protect unborn fetuses but not toddlers and small children.

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Pelosi threatened Barr and Trump with impeachment this morning if they procede to fill Ginsberg's seat before the election .

 

 

-sick chit ....

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36 minutes ago, MoZZez said:

I doubt anyone will change your mind.

Just like I doubt  12er, Oz or anyone else's mind changes on any topic really.

We are all entrenched in our ideas and stubborn.

 

Myself, I dont believe that a zygote is a baby, I dont believe a fetus is a baby. I dont believe they have life at that point NY different than any other cluster if cells that grow in your body, good ones or bad.

That said, the do eventually grow into a child.

So I look at it like that. When it is at the stage if a child, I say the mothers can suck it up and have the child. Before that I dont see it any different than removing anything else from your body.

 

Change my mind?

I don't think allowing some abortion is unreasonable and it is in fact wise overall. 

Imagine if we convinced the whole world to ban abortion. Population would sky rocket & with it the whole system would fail shorty via less restrictions on all protections to keep the economic growth machine going, more conflict in crowded cities, more economic competition, more wars fighting over scarce resources & lands, more pollution & environmental damage, more chemicals in your food & water+ scarcity of supply & burden on farmers/ranchers, more plagues. The death toll from all that will make abortion seem completely trivial. 

Not saying moderate abortion prevents or causes a dent but maybe it can buy us time to deal with the emerging problems in the future so we're not in a situation were things are just completely out of hand. 

I mean fk we're almost at the tipping point already. Elon get our @ss to mars. 

I think most of us can agree China's 1 child policy isn't such a bad thing for the world in the long run & Islamic terrorist if they wanna abort more power to them less of them the better. 

Edited by StompGrind

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1 hour ago, MoZZez said:

I doubt anyone will change your mind.

Just like I doubt  12er, Oz or anyone else's mind changes on any topic really.

We are all entrenched in our ideas and stubborn.

 

Myself, I dont believe that a zygote is a baby, I dont believe a fetus is a baby. I dont believe they have life at that point NY different than any other cluster if cells that grow in your body, good ones or bad.

That said, the do eventually grow into a child.

So I look at it like that. When it is at the stage if a child, I say the mothers can suck it up and have the child. Before that I dont see it any different than removing anything else from your body.

 

Change my mind?

Speak for yourself. I changed my mind on gun ownership thanks to the fora. Not sure stubbornness is something to be worn as a badge of honor. 

That said, I'm kind of tired of talking about dead babies so I will cede the floor to zerkbot, who tends to share his news in clumps of 10 or more. 

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4 hours ago, StompGrind said:

Follow-up questions. 

Would you support abortion in the case of the rare medical emergency if the mother has a moderate to high chance of dying from complications? 

What about crack babies n such with super severe developmental complications? 

What about rape & incests? 

Are all these out of the question as well. 

 

Yes but the % of these situations that abortions are used for are so low its not even relevant. 

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3 hours ago, I_Take_Roids_m8 said:

 

Yes but the % of these situations that abortions are used for are so low its not even relevant. 

K so let's ban abortion world wide. We'll be having the great rat plague from China, India & who knows where else. 100% we ban abortion get ready for a big reset sooner than expected. May be unavoidable either way but why increase that risk in orders of magnitude? 

If you look at this from a global perspective & biology/physics/logistics POV instead of just social/morality/ethics we're gonna be unsustainable if we don't try to check population growth to sustain stability & security. We're already nearly at that point now just with covid/global unrest & with very near future technologies that are going to radically change the world on the horizon you can expect all the problems we have now to ramp that up so we won't be prepared to deal with the next big things. Unless we get AI & blockchain right as an accountability standard & solve all these problems super fast we are super fk'ed. 

Despite the morale argument banning all abortion may be fine for the USA right now but isn't a realistic global solution long term because if you did a % of population rising by orders of magnitudes that are unsustainable along with a growing number of exponential growth but also existential technology threats along with increased access, competition & burdens on supply/demand plus all the problems those forces cause along with all the other unforeseen disasters you would think we better start really thinking about that or we're gonna have some much tougher moral choices than abortion when the next series of global no knock warrants comes kicking in all our doors at a rate & complexity we no can defense in the VERY near future. 

 

Edited by StompGrind

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20 yrs from now @ the FightClub reunion

Group: Well we banned abortion yay for humanity but it sure all spiraled fast & we ended up with idiocracy. Pass that gatorade with electrolytes. 

Me: Dude I fkn told ya'll....smh

Group: STFU it probably would have happened anyway. 

Me: *Shrugs* I can't argue that. 

🤣

 

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3 hours ago, I_Take_Roids_m8 said:

 

Yes but the % of these situations that abortions are used for are so low its not even relevant. 

its pretty significant in the idyb family!

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57 minutes ago, StompGrind said:

20 yrs from now @ the FightClub reunion

Group: Well we banned abortion yay for humanity but it sure all spiraled fast & we ended up with idiocracy. Pass that gatorade with electrolytes. 

Me: Dude I fkn told ya'll....smh

Group: STFU it probably would have happened anyway. 

Me: *Shrugs* I can't argue that. 

🤣

 

Lol. Frankly, if we're going to go down the population culling route, I'd rather we start with murderers, rapists, idiots and French people.

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22 minutes ago, Bubba_Sparks said:

Lol. Frankly, if we're going to go down the population culling route, I'd rather we start with murderers, rapists, idiots and French people.

If we are on that trajectory path i say that's a good start but exchange French with Chinese. 

The growth of China's economy assuming nothing catastrophic happens is going to output the US and their economy is going to grow twice to 3 x that of the US in the next decade or so and we'll not be able to compete militarily when the AI revolution & autonomous systems age really takes off. If the United States is not able to out innovate to counter then China will economically & militarily rule the world easily. I don't even wanna speculate on what that means but I'm fairly certain it ain't good. 

That is just a cold hard inevitability and simple math assuming nothing catastrophic happens b4 then. 

 

Edited by StompGrind

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10 hours ago, MoZZez said:

I doubt anyone will change your mind.

Just like I doubt  12er, Oz or anyone else's mind changes on any topic really.

We are all entrenched in our ideas and stubborn.

 

Myself, I dont believe that a zygote is a baby, I dont believe a fetus is a baby. I dont believe they have life at that point NY different than any other cluster if cells that grow in your body, good ones or bad.

That said, the do eventually grow into a child.

So I look at it like that. When it is at the stage if a child, I say the mothers can suck it up and have the child. Before that I dont see it any different than removing anything else from your body.

 

Change my mind?

My stances will shift on occasion.  Perfect example, I used to be the P5P #1 Jones hater on here, back when he was a WCC who used immoral shots to the knee and cheated,  but now I recognize that he works within the rules provided and is the undisputed GOAT of the UFC.  

 

I've also softened somewhat on Israel vs Palestine after I found out exactly how much control Hamas has over it's govt. 

 

Don't think I ever liked Soup though. Some times you're right all the way through. 

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9 hours ago, OmoGOAT said:

JRE has been killing it in the political arena lately. That Tim Kennedy podcast was amazing 

Until he bished out and apologized to the woketards for saying Antifa were being arrested for arson (which they were) 

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20 minutes ago, OzPride said:

My stances will shift on occasion.  Perfect example, I used to be the P5P #1 Jones hater on here, back when he was a WCC who used immoral shots to the knee and cheated,  but now I recognize that he works within the rules provided and is the undisputed GOAT of the UFC.  

 

I've also softened somewhat on Israel vs Palestine after I found out exactly how much control Hamas has over it's govt. 

 

Don't think I ever liked Soup though. Some times you're right all the way through. 

Politically speaking, most of us won't waiver by the ideas of others. We may bend a bit, but we don't break so to speak. Thats why I used the term stubborn earlier. Not as an insult to anyone, as i fall in the category myself, but our experiences have shaped our opinion, and me or you saying something wont open the others eyes to change what they have believed for so long.

I've let go somewhat on the time frame I believe abortions are fine because of conversion with SVT, but I haven't changed my mind on allowing them in that specific time frame.

 

 

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1 hour ago, OzPride said:

Until he bished out and apologized to the woketards for saying Antifa were being arrested for arson (which they were) 

I like that he takes a non apologetic stance on this trans garbage and calls it out for what it is, mental illness.

Edited by OmoGOAT
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1 hour ago, Bezerker101 said:

 

Not sure what to laugh at first, his speech or the echo bouncing round the empty room.

 

What a fcukin putz, lol.

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2 minutes ago, thestorm-1 said:

Huh? 

I thought the first debate was on September 29th?  ...9 days away.

 

it's 12:20/pm, Sept 21 here m8

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Biden wants you to vote with your conscience, hes right dont vote for a geriatric hair sniffing child molester.

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1 hour ago, TwennyFo said:

Not sure what to laugh at first, his speech or the echo bouncing round the empty room.

 

What a fcukin putz, lol.

Joe Biden: Due to Trump's Covid response it's estimated three...*confused* you know....the three thing...three trillion Americans are out of work. 

Handler: *Facepalm* Cut the feed!

Reporter: Joe we only have roughly  330 million people in America *shakes head*

Joe Biden: Come on man....Trump killed that many? 

Reporter: *Sigh*

Handler to security: Ok we're pulling him. Take Sniffer1 back to the basement for his IV. 

Security to Joe: Come with me sir we're going back to the basement

Biden: I'm not going anywhere you ain't black *gives Joe a tranquillizer shot & carries him out*

Handler in the basement: Wake up sleepy Joe. Joe you can't keep saying stupid $hit no one is gonna vote for you

Joe Biden: You lying dog faced pony soldier

Handler: FK this i quit. I can't take it anymore

Joe Biden: Wanna rub my legs and watch the hair stand back up? 

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15 minutes ago, agtx said:

Biden wants you to vote with your conscience, hes right dont vote for a geriatric hair sniffing child molester.

This is the time for a national write in campaign for someone who is competent 

 

Hell, replace all of them, House, Senate and Whitehouse.

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51 minutes ago, StompGrind said:

Wait so did Biden just secure himself 200 million more mail in votes after that speech? 

Both sides will do anything to win!

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18 minutes ago, StompGrind said:

Sedition is fun. 

 

Sick Liberal mofos, .. inherently dysfunctional,  a sub-human cretinous cancer set upon us for our sinful ways  👀

image.png.c6ff98ef4b26543b9fc9e401f4fd279c.png

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