The Nile House

[Megasoup]

There was a little Jewish city in Galilee named Sepphoris, just a few miles north of Nazareth.  It was  It was destroyed in 4 BC.  It was rebuilt during Jesus's life, and after his death there was a temple built called The Nile House.  The aim and the hope of the inhabitants of the city of Sepphoris were to preserve Judaism in the region of Galilee, and a lot of their efforts were put into the fine craftsmanship and exquisite art of the Nile House.  Among the art which has still survived the last 2000 years are its Mosaics.

 

The existence of these Mosaics put an end to any question regarding the ethnicity and the skin color of the Jewish Galileans during the time of Jesus Christ.  He was white.  

 

I find it vexxing that this sort of thing is even up for debate, as Jewish people still exist.  They have never conquered a nation or people in modern times, have intermingled very little with other people's, and for the most part have preserved themselves as a people.  With Jerry Seinfeld, Gal Gadot, Paul Reiser, Natalie Portman and thousand more celebrities (as well as every Jewish person you have met personally in real life,) we all have a pretty good idea what Jewish people look like. Still, there are people who argue.  So, here are Mosaics by Jewish people of that time and region, depicting Jewish people of that time and region.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's obviously many, many more of them.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Megasoup

[Bezerker101]

This  resembles the Opposition leader Benjamin Netanyahu-

 

[Megasoup]

I just handed every religious poster on this forum who is tired of hearing from snarky and vile progressives argue that "Jesus wasn't white," all the ammunition they would ever need to quickly demolish their argument, and no one wants to comment?

[Megasoup]

These images are what the people who share Jesus's religious and ethnic background looked like.  Jesus was white.  With their lighter hair and fair skin, the people of Galilee were whiter than Justin Trudeau and Gavin Newsom, and there's a distinct possibility that Jesus had blue eyes, as that was not uncommon for those who inhabited that area (A DNA study on hundreds of skeletal remains of an underground grave site in Galilee found that the allele that is responsible for blue eyes was associated with 49 percent of the sampled remains.) 

[Bwana]

I've never heard this particular theory before.

[Megasoup]

10 minutes ago, Bwana said:

I've never heard this particular theory before.

Theory?  No, these are facts.  Paul Reiser is a living, breathing person.  So are the rest of the actors who make up so much of Hollywood.  All those Jews you've met over the years, those white people, those were not figments of your imagination.  

 

The Levant is a real area, comprised of Israel, Lebanon and Syria and a smattering of other countries.  The leaders of those countries look like this:

 

Lebanon:

 

 

Syria:

 

Israel:

 

Iraq:

 

 

These are not black people, they are not dark-skinned Arabs, either.  And this is after 1500 years of Muslim rule, following a massive war and occupation, which resulted in wholesale rape and subsequent intermingling of the peoples from regions which were comprised of darker-skinned peoples of the Middle East (Muhammad was an Arab from Saudi Arabia, where he first gathered his Armies until his death.) One could only imagine what the people of this region looked like before the Muslim invasions, but it is obvious that they would have had much fairer skin and lighter hair. 

Jesus was white.  Any source which differs from this ignores geography, history, surviving sculpture, artifacts, paintings, and the very people who exist in this region today.

 

 

[Bwana]

Jews don't believe in a man named Jesus, and if he did exist he wasn't the Messiah.

[Megasoup]

7 minutes ago, Bwana said:

Jews don't believe in a man named Jesus, and if he did exist he wasn't the Messiah.

That really has nothing to do with any of this.  Whether or not he even existed has nothing to do with any of this.

 

If he existed, he would have been white.  If he had not existed, the people of that region still would have been white.   Jesus, whether he was just a regular guy who spent his short life as a wandering rabbi, or if he was the messiah, or even if he was an imaginary person the disciples agreed to write books about...was white.  

[Bwana]

3 minutes ago, Megasoup said:

That really has nothing to do with any of this.  Whether or not he even existed has nothing to do with any of this.

 

If he existed, he would have been white.  If he had not existed, the people of that region still would have been white.   Jesus, whether he was just a regular guy who spent his short life as a wandering rabbi, or if he was the messiah, or even if he was an imaginary person the disciples agreed to write books about...was white.  

You can't emphatically state that as fact, many peoples moved and traveled in regions for food/work/escape slavery/religious persecution....these were dangerous times. I'm not trying to argue, just stating it's impossible to state that theory as a fact.

There's a reason he was stated to be white, it was easier for the masses to accept.

[Megasoup]

2 minutes ago, Bwana said:

You can't emphatically state that as fact, many peoples moved and traveled in regions for food/work/escape slavery/religious persecution....these were dangerous times. I'm not trying to argue, just stating it's impossible to state that theory as a fact.

There's a reason he was stated to be white, it was easier for the masses to accept.

Not a theory.  There is art from that region, from those people, from that time which is still around, and the people in the art are white.  Didn't you see all those photos I posted?

[Bwana]

Just now, Megasoup said:

Not a theory.  There is art from that region, from those people, from that time which is still around, and the people in the art are white.  Didn't you see all those photos I posted?

I saw the photos, and see no proof they depict Jesus himself. Religious scholars have spent decades studying the topic, and still disagree.

And you miss 1 very important point: Unless you've spent time researching ancestry.com on his parents Joseph and Mary, then throw the fact that it was an "immaculate conception" from God....it's impossible to dictate the genealogy of Jesus himself.

Are you a man of faith, or someone looking to stir the pot for entertainment ?

[Megasoup]

9 minutes ago, Bwana said:

I saw the photos, and see no proof they depict Jesus himself. Religious scholars have spent decades studying the topic, and still disagree.

And you miss 1 very important point: Unless you've spent time researching ancestry.com on his parents Joseph and Mary, then throw the fact that it was an "immaculate conception" from God....it's impossible to dictate the genealogy of Jesus himself.

Are you a man of faith, or someone looking to stir the pot for entertainment ?

I am a man of faith, which is why I find it offensive when people (who are almost never people of faith themselves) attempt to antagonize Christians by saying Jesus wasn't white.

 

Also, quit being obtuse.  You're being argumentative, and it's an annoyance.  I refuse to believe that you are not "getting" this, and I won't debate someone is being willfully ignorant just to be a troll. 

 

If someone 2000 years ago was born in China, to Chinese parents in a village that was 100% Chinese, that fella' is going to be Chinese and look Chinese.  Jesus was born in an area where everyone had fair skin and lighter colored hair and many of them had blue eyes, there is no outside chance that he was an Arab or a black man.

 

[Bwana]

1 hour ago, Megasoup said:

I am a man of faith, which is why I find it offensive when people (who are almost never people of faith themselves) attempt to antagonize Christians by saying Jesus wasn't white.

 

Also, quit being obtuse.  You're being argumentative, and it's an annoyance.  I refuse to believe that you are not "getting" this, and I won't debate someone is being willfully ignorant just to be a troll. 

 

If someone 2000 years ago was born in China, to Chinese parents in a village that was 100% Chinese, that fella' is going to be Chinese and look Chinese.  Jesus was born in an area where everyone had fair skin and lighter colored hair and many of them had blue eyes, there is no outside chance that he was an Arab or a black man.

 

You don't sound like a practicing Christian, speaking to me like that over a historical conversation.

[cashfl0w]

Debating the race of a dude from a story featuring walking on water, talking snakes, etc. lol

[classicboxer]

The Jews I grew up around, and worked with, were more like this picture. I wouldn't call them white.

[Megasoup]

3 hours ago, Bwana said:

You don't sound like a practicing Christian, speaking to me like that over a historical conversation.

I'm not speaking to you in any sort of way which would indicate that I am not a Christian.  Being a Christian does not mean that I am required to easily cave while debating something. 

 

Additionally, I'm not even being overly terse (if that was the tone you perceived, you were incorrect,) but I am being blunt and straightforward; calling your bluff on feigning ignorance.

[Bezerker101]

1 hour ago, classicboxer said:

The Jews I grew up around, and worked with, were more like this picture. I wouldn't call them white.

 

Honestly, .. that looks like one Hasidic with three Palestinians 

[Megasoup]

1 hour ago, classicboxer said:

The Jews I grew up around, and worked with, were more like this picture. I wouldn't call them white.

These are not Jews.  These are Muslims.  Jews and Muslims, being from the same region, share all sorts of customs and rituals.  Some Muslims wear skullcaps (a Kippah,) but no Jews wear those patterned scarfs (keffiyah.). 

   

 

[Megasoup]

3 minutes ago, Bezerker101 said:

 

Honestly, .. that looks like one Hasidic with three Palestinians 

That may be the case, or it might not be.

[Megasoup]

Regardless of what sort of arguments anyone makes, whether you take it as a story or you take it as reality, these things are not debatable:

 

-The story of Jesus was about a Jewish man from Galilee 2000 years ago

-There are multiple paintings and frescos and mosaics in Galilee from 2000 years ago, crafted by Jews that depict other Jews, and they are white people. 

-These are not people who have ever watched a film, saw a photograph or have ever been in contact with anyone from Europe, so they weren't "making it up."  The idea of brown people pretending to be white people could not possibly occur.

-The story of Jesus, true or not, was the story of a white man, written by white men, who walked amongst other white men who looked like this:

 

 

[MoZZez]

34 minutes ago, Megasoup said:

I'm not speaking to you in any sort of way which would indicate that I am not a Christian.  Being a Christian does not mean that I am required to easily cave while debating something. 

 

 

Soup only caves on Child support payments,, midgets and prison rape.

Everything else he will stand up against!

[Megasoup]

20 minutes ago, MoZZez said:

Soup only caves on Child support payments,, midgets and prison rape.

Everything else he will stand up against!

Literally none of these things are true.  It's off topic, and your disdain (as well as your obsession) for me is as puzzling as it is pointless.

[MoZZez]

4 minutes ago, Megasoup said:

Literally none of these things are true.  It's off topic, and your disdain (as well as your obsession) for me is as puzzling as it is pointless.

Yeah, it's not like you abandoned your child, git shot by a midget and raped in prison. I mean, that is so unbelievable for the bulk**** you try and spew right?

Btw, Jesus was brown you ****.

[Megasoup]

27 minutes ago, MoZZez said:

Yeah, it's not like you abandoned your child, git shot by a midget and raped in prison. I mean, that is so unbelievable for the bulk**** you try and spew right?

Btw, Jesus was brown you ****.

You are retarded.

[Bwana]

Jesus was an olive skinned man with dark brown hair and eyes, he was never the blond haired blue eyed version the Europeans found more palatable to their race.

But most Christians worship God, so his son's skin color shouldn't matter unless you're a racist....along with God made people of all races, and had no preference towards the white skinned human.

[MoZZez]

25 minutes ago, Bwana said:

Jesus was an olive skinned man with dark brown hair and eyes, he was never the blond haired blue eyed version the Europeans found more palatable to their race.

But most Christians worship God, so his son's skin color shouldn't matter unless you're a racist....along with God made people of all races, and had no preference towards the white skinned human.

Soup isn't racist. He has sucked too much BBC to hate colored folk. 

[Megasoup]

27 minutes ago, Bwana said:

Jesus was an olive skinned man with dark brown hair and eyes, he was never the blond haired blue eyed version the Europeans found more palatable to their race.

I have brought forth a tremendous amount of evidence which I would regard as indisputable that contradicts this.

 

 No one who disagrees with me as contributed anything of note, but their own disagreement.  No facts.  No photos. No evidence. No anthropology. 

 

27 minutes ago, Bwana said:

But most Christians worship God, so his son's skin color shouldn't matter unless you're a racist.

It makes no difference in a religious sense.  But it still matters, because facts matter.  Truth matters.  I do not overlook things or pretend to feel a certain way because I’m afraid that a gullible person or a silly person with an agenda might call me racist.  

Edited June 22, 2022 by Megasoup

[Bubba_Sparks]

10 hours ago, Megasoup said:

I just handed every religious poster on this forum who is tired of hearing from snarky and vile progressives argue that "Jesus wasn't white," all the ammunition they would ever need to quickly demolish their argument, and no one wants to comment?

Whilst i appreciate your research, of all the areas of "apologetics" I've delved into over the years to defend the faith, Jesus' skin colour has never been one of them as it's literally never come up in any conversation about faith.  The Christian message is wholly independent of Jesus' physical appearance.

For all i know, he might not even have had a beard!

[Megasoup]

1 hour ago, Bubba_Sparks said:

Whilst i appreciate your research, of all the areas of "apologetics" I've delved into over the years to defend the faith, Jesus' skin colour has never been one of them as it's literally never come up in any conversation about faith.  The Christian message is wholly independent of Jesus' physical appearance.

For all i know, he might not even have had a beard!

The topic of Jesus's skin color is pretty popular over here, particularly among progressives.  

[classicboxer]

6 hours ago, Bezerker101 said:

 

Honestly, .. that looks like one Hasidic with three Palestinians 

I only used this example for the skin color and the curly hair. The Jews I knew looked similar to the picture.

[Bubba_Sparks]

1 hour ago, Megasoup said:

The topic of Jesus's skin color is pretty popular over here, particularly among progressives.  

Weird.

[MoZZez]

2 hours ago, Megasoup said:

The topic of Jesus's skin color is pretty popular over here, particularly among progressives.  

Soups Prison Church is very progressive. 

The 11th commandment was thou Shal not parent their children.

Thats why Soup isn't a deadbeat parent in his eye, he was only following his Christian faith...

[Bubba_Sparks]

12 minutes ago, MoZZez said:

Soups Prison Church is very progressive. 

The 11th commandment was thou Shal not parent their children.

Thats why Soup isn't a deadbeat parent in his eye, he was only following his Christian faith...

FWIW, i also find your obsession with Soup a bit odd.  Not sure why you can't let it go?

[SVTContour98]

16 hours ago, Megasoup said:

even if he was an imaginary person the disciples agreed to write books about.

Side note:  This is always one of the points "Jesus conspiracy theorists" avoid at all costs. 

Their logic goes:

Jesus didn't exist

The Disciples existed and made Him up to control the people

Then the Disciples gave up their families, wealth, jobs, to be scattered across the region, constantly targeted by govt goons, stoned/jailed multiple times, and ultimately exiled or die horrid deaths such as being crucified, crucified upside down or beheaded.

And even though they were given the chance, not once did any of them recant their known lie that Jesus was a fake and/or never existed at all.

MaKeS pErFeCt SeNsE

 

[SVTContour98]

i'm on board with @Bubba_Sparks on this one...i've had probably 50+, lengthy and in depth conversations with agnostics/atheists....and not once did skin color come up.

BUT - I will say I can definitely see how progressives would use his skin color to "deconstruct" Jesus.  That's one of their newer terms - Deconstruction.

I've never put any thought into his skin color.

 

I've always said, I think Mary was brown and the Holy Spirit, being perfect in all ways, was White.  Therefore Jesus was mixed.   LOLOLOL

[MoZZez]

3 hours ago, Bubba_Sparks said:

FWIW, i also find your obsession with Soup a bit odd.  Not sure why you can't let it go?

I just can't stand the prick. When he posts his stupid stories I figure, no ****s given when it comes to him.

[Bwana]

I have no problem accepting Jesus in whatever his skin color was, but this has been debated by scholars, historians, and theologians for centuries.

It's a proven fact that the depiction of Jesus morphed depending on the country, there are examples of white/black/Asian Jesus mosaics going back to the 2nd century. The Archbishop of Canterbury stated that Christianity was more easily accepted and spread through a region, by being portrayed as one of their own kind/culture/race. It was the European influence that forced the white version most people today acknowledge as Jesus.

This wasn't started under a BLM or racial group intending to claim Jesus as their own, this is many centuries old as ancient paintings and mosaics depict. Professor Soup thinks he's reinvented the wheel with indisputable proof of his baseless "theory", while is has more holes than Swiss cheese under the guise of racism....as others have stated, Jesus's skin color is irrelevant to your beliefs and the basis of Christianity.

[Megasoup]

13 hours ago, Bubba_Sparks said:

Whilst i appreciate your research, of all the areas of "apologetics" I've delved into over the years to defend the faith, Jesus' skin colour has never been one of them as it's literally never come up in any conversation about faith.  The Christian message is wholly independent of Jesus' physical appearance.

For all i know, he might not even have had a beard!

He might not have had a beard, actually.  Short hair and shaven beard was the fashion in the era and in that region; beards were uncommon( though some philosophers kept a short beard. Jesus may have taken on that look,) and men wearing longer hair was very uncommon.

[Megasoup]

7 hours ago, SVTContour98 said:

i'm on board with @Bubba_Sparks on this one...i've had probably 50+, lengthy and in depth conversations with agnostics/atheists....and not once did skin color come up.

 

I am surprised to hear this.  It is such a common argument here.  I guess that could be attributed to the different thinking and the different arguments that occur in this country.  I often feel like our cultures have been completely homogenized into one, but apparently this is not really the case.  

[Megasoup]

6 hours ago, Bwana said:

I have no problem accepting Jesus in whatever his skin color was, but this has been debated by scholars, historians, and theologians for centuries.

It's a proven fact that the depiction of Jesus morphed depending on the country, there are examples of white/black/Asian Jesus mosaics going back to the 2nd century. The Archbishop of Canterbury stated that Christianity was more easily accepted and spread through a region, by being portrayed as one of their own kind/culture/race. It was the European influence that forced the white version most people today acknowledge as Jesus.

This wasn't started under a BLM or racial group intending to claim Jesus as their own, this is many centuries old as ancient paintings and mosaics depict. Professor Soup thinks he's reinvented the wheel with indisputable proof of his baseless "theory", while is has more holes than Swiss cheese under the guise of racism....as others have stated, Jesus's skin color is irrelevant to your beliefs and the basis of Christianity.

This is not a particularly strong argument.  You aren't really saying anything, you're not even taking a position, it appears.  You're just disagreeing with me.

 

 

Also, most of what you're saying isn't true.  I think you're making things up as you go along, believing your own fabrications because it "sounds right."

 

-You say that the depiction of Jesus is morphed depending on the country, but that's not really true.  Asians do not believe that Jesus was Asian; not in Korea, not in Japan and not in China.  Paintings of Jesus in Latin America depict the same figure we all know and love.  I don't care what Africa has to say, I did not bother googling it.

-The Archbishop of Canterbury?  Who cares what he says?   He's the figurehead for the Church of England, he's not the standing authority of Christianity (besides, I googled him as well, and he's a weirdo.). Should we look to what the leader of the Mormons say?  What about the Amish?  

-The European influence forced the white version of Jesus?  Dude, those mosaics from the Nile house in Sepphoris were crafted a thousand years before the crusades.  

 

Jesus was a Jew. 

Jews are white. 

They look white. 

They overwhelmingly identify themselves as white. 

They are considered white by pretty much everyone. 

The figures depicting Jews in the mosaics from the village a couple miles down the road from his, created during his lifetime, are definitely white.  

 

It doesn't matter either way, but just because it doesn't matter, doesn't give anyone license to make things up.  

 

[Bwana]

13 minutes ago, Megasoup said:

This is not a particularly strong argument.  You aren't really saying anything, you're not even taking a position, it appears.  You're just disagreeing with me.

 

 

Also, most of what you're saying isn't true.  I think you're making things up as you go along, believing your own fabrications because it "sounds right."

 

-You say that the depiction of Jesus is morphed depending on the country, but that's not really true.  Asians do not believe that Jesus was Asian; not in Korea, not in Japan and not in China.  Paintings of Jesus in Latin America depict the same figure we all know and love.  I don't care what Africa has to say, I did not bother googling it.

-The Archbishop of Canterbury?  Who cares what he says?   He's the figurehead for the Church of England, he's not the standing authority of Christianity (besides, I googled him as well, and he's a weirdo.). Should we look to what the leader of the Mormons say?  What about the Amish?  

-The European influence forced the white version of Jesus?  Dude, those mosaics from the Nile house in Sepphoris were crafted a thousand years before the crusades.  

 

Jesus was a Jew. 

Jews are white. 

They look white. 

They overwhelmingly identify themselves as white. 

They are considered white by pretty much everyone. 

The figures depicting Jews in the mosaics from the village a couple miles down the road from his, created during his lifetime, are definitely white.  

 

It doesn't matter either way, but just because it doesn't matter, doesn't give anyone license to make things up.  

 

Everything I stated was fact, you're crazy or demented if you think you're more knowledgeable than scholars of biblical times. I was speaking to you, I was stating known facts from history....maybe you just want the thread to yourself, or looking for a soapbox for loony ideas that hold no weight with true believers.

It appears you have a problem holding Jesus in high regard if he's not white, find a new religion.

[Megasoup]

4 minutes ago, Bwana said:

Everything I stated was fact, you're crazy or demented if you think you're more knowledgeable than scholars of biblical times. I was speaking to you, I was stating known facts from history....maybe you just want the thread to yourself, or looking for a soapbox for loony ideas that hold no weight with true believers.

It appears you have a problem holding Jesus in high regard if he's not white, find a new religion.

I have not yet debated a biblical scholar in this forum. What are you talking about?

 

You haven’t quoted a biblical scholar. You haven’t cited a biblical scholar.
You haven’t given me any clearly defined position or fact which comes from a biblical scholar.

 

 

You could use the term “biblical scholar” to attempt to add weight to your argument, but there’s been nothing scholarly about your argument whatsoever. 

[Megasoup]

I would bet everything I own and every dollar I make for the rest of my life that you couldn’t name a single biblical scholar without googling it first.  
 

You are being terribly dishonest in this debate by trying to add heft to your argument by representing it as though your positions are directly sourced from biblical scholars.

[Bwana]

I was attempting to have an intelligent conversation on your thread topic, instead your get rustled if someone doesn't agree with you. I can prove every single point I've stated, and many that contradict your views. Considering the very low number of believers on this site, that's a bit surprising to say the least...so much for calling a truce between us.

God bless

[MoZZez]

26 minutes ago, Megasoup said:

I would bet everything I own and every dollar I make for the rest of my life that you couldn’t name a single biblical scholar without googling it first.  
 

You are being terribly dishonest in this debate by trying to add heft to your argument by representing it as though your positions are directly sourced from biblical scholars.

You are betting the next 10 years of your miserable life's pennies?

**** me man, you wanna be homeless and not able to panhandle?

You're going too end up like a crack****, blow jobs for a McDonald's cheeseburger...

[Megasoup]

20 minutes ago, Bwana said:

I was attempting to have an intelligent conversation on your thread topic, instead your get rustled if someone doesn't agree with you. I can prove every single point I've stated, and many that contradict your views. Considering the very low number of believers on this site, that's a bit surprising to say the least...so much for calling a truce between us.

God bless

I do want peace, forum wide.  I apologize, but some topics are going to get people particularly agitated; one of them is religion.

 

I still want to get down to the bottom of this.  Let’s take Jesus out of the equation.

 

If you could answer this with a simple yes or no (followed by your logic, if you want,) it would satisfy me, we could be done with it:

 

Do you believe the Jewish people who lived in Galilee 2000 years ago were not white?

 

*Optional follow up questions.
 

-Why did the people of Galilei depict themselves as white in their art?

 

-How would they know that white people exist so that they could make mosaics depicting white people?

 

-of the many peoples out there, the Jews in particular have closely observed their traditions and faith, and have been vigilant in preserving their identity; marriage with outsiders being extremely rare.  Why are Jews white today if they were not white back then?