The_Q Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 We basically assume that guys like Fedor, Lesnar, Machida, GSP, Silva, Penn, N0g, etc.... are the toughest fighters in the world. But how would they fair against a highly trained Green Beret, or Navy Seal? an Ex Russian Spetzna? An Israeli solider trained in Krav Maga (the REAL military-grade Krav Maga....not the local community center class taught by some guy who used to teach tai-chi and karate). obviously MMA fighters train to hurt, not to kill (though some submission techniques like chokes could kill, and joint locks could pretty much end a fight). and military hand-to-hand combat looks for the KILL quickly, with or without a weapon....and use eye gouges, groin strikes and throat shots. Could Anderson Silva hang with a highly trained special ops soldier? could he avoid getting killed? IMO, I don't think most MMA champs would stand a chance.....except Fedor, simply because Russian Combat Sambo is a military fighting style designed to kill on the field. it's just been softened for competition. Cro-Cop too, as he actually IS a trained and practicing Special Ops cop/soldier when he's not fighting. what say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtp Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Ben Saunders showed what happens when a Navy Seal tries his "Registered Weapons" in the Octogon. Bad day for the Seal. Brandon Wolff is his name. This was a while ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade7 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I think top MMA fighters would tear apart most special ops soldiers. It's just a question of time spent training- I don't care how tough some of the military guys are, their focus is not on hand-to-hand combat, and the MMA guys are going to have far superior reflexes and technique. I don't think the lethal moves that the military teaches would be enough to overcome that. As far as sepcial ops guys competing in MMA, check out what happened to Brandon Wolff, former SEAL, when he got in the octagon with Ben Saunders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtp Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I think top MMA fighters would tear apart most special ops soldiers. It's just a question of time spent training- I don't care how tough some of the military guys are' date=' their focus is not on hand-to-hand combat, and the MMA guys are going to have far superior reflexes and technique. I don't think the lethal moves that the military teaches would be enough to overcome that. [b']As far as sepcial ops guys competing in MMA, check out what happened to Brandon Wolff, former SEAL, when he got in the octagon with Ben Saunders[/b]. I SAID IT FIRST!!!!! JK. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade7 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I SAID IT FIRST!!!!! JK. Sorry. Haha, yeah, I posted that and read what you wrote and went "Doh!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtp Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 As a member of the military, not Spec ops, I thought I was tuffer than MMA guys, til i jumped into a Gracie-Barra gym... I still cry at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtp Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Haha' date=' yeah, I posted that and read what you wrote and went "Doh!" [/quote'] No Biggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Q Posted September 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 yah, I'm not sure the Saunders vs. Wolff fight is the end all to this discussion. Wolff just sucked, he was scared to even be in that cage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepper_man Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Seriously? No MMA fighter would stand a chance in a street fight with any special forces guys........they go for the kill, have no rules and are trained in everything that MMA fighters are not aloud to do coz they would cause death or seriously bad injuries simple!!!! In a cage match, then the MMA guys would win due to the rules that spec ops are not trained for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Q Posted September 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Seriously?No MMA fighter would stand a chance in a street fight with any special forces guys........they go for the kill' date=' have no rules and are trained in everything that MMA fighters are not aloud to do coz they would cause death or seriously bad injuries simple!!!! In a cage match, then the MMA guys would win due to the rules that spec ops are not trained for[/quote'] that's kinda what I'm thinking..... If Lesnar got kicked in the groin then punched in the throat in one fluid movement...i don't think his size or wrestling would matter much. the average MMA fighter does not know how to kill quickly or defend a kill shot most likely. why would they? in the cage, MMA guys have some advantages....though i would still love to see some other special ops guys in there just to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtp Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Seriously?No MMA fighter would stand a chance in a street fight with any special forces guys........they go for the kill' date=' have no rules and are trained in everything that MMA fighters are not aloud to do coz they would cause death or seriously bad injuries simple!!!! In a cage match, then the MMA guys would win due to the rules that spec ops are not trained for[/quote'] +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrockCarwin Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Here's the thing gentleman.... Hand to hand combat im sorry but MMA folks would kill any trained Special Ops dude...i mean seriously... What seperates SOF(special ops forces) is not their hand to hand combat skills but their training with weapons...from knives to automatic weapons..... Hand to Hand MMA>SOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebutterflybee Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I think this is actually a tough one. I dont think the best fighters are the ones that compete in MMA necessarily. There may be people somewhere, some bad **** dudes that just dont want to, but could rip anyone limb from limb. Also, no rules changes things a bit. Actually not just a bit, alot. yes there are some MMA fighters who would transition to no-rules well, but there are some that wouldn't, and consequently the same can be said of SO guys. And throw the Israelis in there with that crazy dirty hand to hand shi* (krag maga, or something), who knows. People always say that being punched in the face makes a black belt a blue belt, well being kicked in the nuts, and having your ear bitten off would make alot of amazing MMA fighters sh*t a brick and fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCFMRE Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I think fighters like Anderson Silva and Machida would be able to beat a special ops guy in a real hand-to-hand fight because they spend so much time working on avoiding strikes and then countering with powerful strikes. I think that kind of fighting would be very effective. Other more aggressive MMA fighter might run into trouble with no rules. Generally though, I think an MMA fighter would own in the cage and the spec ops guy would win in a no rules fight outside of the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade7 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 The fact that there are no rules and you can kick someone in the groin or gouge their eyes doesn't mean you would be able to- seriously, how many people would be able to actually kick Anderson Silva in the groin in a fight? I know that special ops guys get great training, are in top physical shape, and have a terriffic mindset, but how much training in hand-to-hand combat do they actually receive? A few hours? There is no way most of those guys are on anywhere near the same level at unarmed combat as a professional MMA fighter who trains every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRrugbyleague Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 We basically assume that guys like Fedor' date=' Lesnar, Machida, GSP, Silva, Penn, N0g, etc....are the toughest fighters in the world. But how would they fair against a highly trained Green Beret, or Navy Seal? an Ex Russian Spetzna? An Israeli solider trained in Krav Maga (the REAL military-grade Krav Maga....not the local community center class taught by some guy who used to teach tai-chi and karate). obviously MMA fighters train to hurt, not to kill (though some submission techniques like chokes could kill, and joint locks could pretty much end a fight). and military hand-to-hand combat looks for the KILL quickly, with or without a weapon....and use eye gouges, groin strikes and throat shots. Could Anderson Silva hang with a highly trained special ops soldier? could he avoid getting killed? IMO, I don't think most MMA champs would stand a chance.....except Fedor, simply because Russian Combat Sambo is a military fighting style designed to kill on the field. it's just been softened for competition. Cro-Cop too, as he actually IS a trained and practicing Special Ops cop/soldier when he's not fighting. what say you?[/quote'] who cares?? if you wanna know things like this watch deadliest warrior or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepper_man Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 The fact that there are no rules and you can kick someone in the groin or gouge their eyes doesn't mean you would be able to- seriously' date=' how many people would be able to actually kick Anderson Silva in the groin in a fight? I know that special ops guys get great training, are in top physical shape, and have a terriffic mindset, but how much training in hand-to-hand combat do they actually receive? A few hours? There is no way most of those guys are on anywhere near the same level at unarmed combat as a professional MMA fighter who trains every day.[/quote'] Im no SAS expert, but im sure that spec ops get more then a few hours training in hand to hand ocmbat. At the end of the day there lives depend on them being able to fight, MMA guys rely on a pay check. I just cant see with the training, mind set, fitness that ne 1 from MMA would b able to last 10 sec with a SAS CQB instructor. Look at some of the krav maga stuff the army learn, kicking knees out, striking groin, neck eyes etc. Its all stuff designed to take the figting out of the other guy in 5 to 10 sec. good topic, but I just cant see ne spec ops losing, there is a reasion 99.9% of us wont even pass day 1 selection, there r a very special breed of people, and deadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMCN Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 As mentioned: It depends a lot on the situation. Octagon versus no octagon, rules vs no rules And in the street it matters a lot if there is space or if you are in a crowded, compact area. Jits, krav maga and Muay Thai are much better styles for close combat than for instance TKD and karate, who might fare better when the fighters have space to move, keep distance, etcetera. And options of weapons might also influence the situation, especially if you are trained in weapons. A beer bottle, or just a brick thats lying around could have mayor influences on time spent training, style, and what not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wing_chun Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 how would a mma guy go in a war zone? probably not so well, not trained for it in a cage with mma rules, same difference not trained for it mma is a sport and is now reaching a pretty high level, they train every day for it, its hard to match that. on the street with SAS dunno, those guys are kinda superhuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRrugbyleague Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 how would a mma guy go in a war zone? probably not so well' date=' not trained for it in a cage with mma rules, same difference not trained for it mma is a sport and is now reaching a pretty high level, they train every day for it, its hard to match that. on the street with SAS dunno, those guys are kinda superhuman[/quote'] dont forget that the russian spetznaz has learnt the technique of absorbing punches and blocking out unbearable pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMCN Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 And MMA fighters haven't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRrugbyleague Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 And MMA fighters haven't? well in mma fighters trainig they dont get tied to a chair and beaten repeatedly with fists and weapons and drowned. but at the end of the day it depends on where and who in the fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thechemicals Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 MMA fighter wins in a fight. MMA fighter also wins them in the street. Do you really think MMA fighters follow the rules of the octagon in a street fight? Military trained means very little against a guy with multiple blackbelts and veteran fights. Im not hating on military either, its just fact. I was a scout in the army and got my **** handed to me in a Jiu Jitsu camp and in boxing. Either style could have torn me a new one on the street also. If you think otherwise you have no idea of the skill of a black belt....its sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRrugbyleague Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 MMA fighter wins in a fight. MMA fighter also wins them in the street. Do you really think MMA fighters follow the rules of the octagon in a street fight? Military trained means very little against a guy with multiple blackbelts and veteran fights. Im not hating on military either' date=' its just fact. I was a scout in the army and got my **** handed to me in a Jiu Jitsu camp and in boxing. Either style could have torn me a new one on the street also. If you think otherwise you have no idea of the skill of a black belt....its sick.[/quote'] thats nice to know, but mate you were in friggin military camp for 7 year olds, you werent a spetznaz or green beret, so no wonder you got beaten up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhet Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 If they teach them in the army how to avoid getting punched in the face by Anderson Silva then they would already be teaching this in MMA. But they don't. If they teach them in the army how to avoid getting kicked in the knee cap by Anderson Silva then they would already be teaching this in MMA. But they don't. If they teach them in the army how to punch or kick Anderson Silva before he kicks or punches them then they would already be teaching this in MMA. But they don't. If Fedor holds you in a rear naked choke, then - having no rules - you could e.g. poke him in the eyes to free yourself. BUT, having no rules, Fedor would brake your neck right away in the first place. If you had a guy like Fedor or Mir holding your body in some sorta lock - but in a situation where they would not be aiming at only submitting you, but could do anything they wanted to do - they'd brake your limbs and twisted your neck in seconds. Watch this: UFC fighter Frank Mir talks guns, knives, and martial arts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyosha24 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 MMA fighter wins in a fight. MMA fighter also wins them in the street. Do you really think MMA fighters follow the rules of the octagon in a street fight? Military trained means very little against a guy with multiple blackbelts and veteran fights. Im not hating on military either' date=' its just fact. I was a scout in the army and got my **** handed to me in a Jiu Jitsu camp and in boxing. Either style could have torn me a new one on the street also. If you think otherwise you have no idea of the skill of a black belt....its sick.[/quote'] i have to agree with you. most mma fighters have at least 1 blackbelt in something. s.o. soldiers are not trained to rely solely on hand to hand combat. it is something they have to fall back on. and you have to take into consideration that these military guys may have only had 3-5 years of extensive training. compare that to someone who has been training for ten fifteen years or longer. you cant take anything away from navy seals, green berets,delta force and army rangers. its just that hand to hand combat is not their specialty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daweedy Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 MMA fighter wins in a fight. MMA fighter also wins them in the street. Do you really think MMA fighters follow the rules of the octagon in a street fight? Military trained means very little against a guy with multiple blackbelts and veteran fights. Im not hating on military either' date=' its just fact. I was a scout in the army and got my **** handed to me in a Jiu Jitsu camp and in boxing. Either style could have torn me a new one on the street also. If you think otherwise you have no idea of the skill of a black belt....its sick.[/quote'] I agree completly. And I would add one thing, anyone can gauge eyes or kick groins or whatever. Like MMA fighters would avoid using stomps and other "illegal" moves if they fought on the street. No one is as trained in hand to hand combat as MMA fighters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodus9mm Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Being that special ops forces trained in Krav Maga, Spetznaz and any other lethal fighting system, and trained well, would destroy any of the MMA competitors today. Not in an MMA match, but in a street fight. No questions. Sure an MMA fighter could win a street fight, but I'd say 1 out of 10. Change that into a sanctioned MMA match, and the roles change drastically, but I would say a special forces guy could definitely beat many MMA fighters on their own ground quite regularly - 4 out of 10. Edge - Israeli Krav Maga, Russian Spetznaz The best guys in these systems are mind blowing, beyond explanation. The absolute last people you want to mess with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainSuperman Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 There is a reason that these guys are professionals, they spend years practicing and learning their sport. Hand to hand combat is just something that most forces practice on the side, along with all their other skills. A well trained MMA would defeat a well trained military fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tool46ntwo Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I think a Navy Seal trained in Krav Maga would have a better chance but your still just getting into what if's. Street fight a Seal would have a better chance but not in a cage unless he is doing constant practice in MMA. But that's just not very likely they have so many other (military) things to train and practice in they can't devote the time it takes to be a really proficient MMA fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodus9mm Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I think that most people are completely not understanding how good the top practitioners of Krav and Spetznaz really are - and this is to kill you. In a street fight, you're insane if you think Frank Mir could hang with any top Krav Maga practitioner. That's laughable. These are guys who know every submission you can think of, every critical point in your body, how to kill you with 1-2 blows. I can't believe this is even being debated, especially in street fight talk. MMA would do much much better in a sanctioned MMA event, but I bet most of these top military could hold their own more than an MMA guy could hold his own in a street fight. Keep in mind that the guys in these systems are well versed in grappling, wrestling, striking and death. If we're talking about who is the most badass, no question, Green Berets, Krav Maga, Spetznaz. And not all of them either, don't get me wrong. The top 10 practitioners of each in the world I'd say would ruin anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daweedy Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Being that special ops forces trained in Krav Maga' date=' Spetznaz and any other lethal fighting system, and trained well, would destroy any of the MMA competitors today. Not in an MMA match, but in a street fight. No questions. Sure an MMA fighter could win a street fight, but I'd say 1 out of 10. Change that into a sanctioned MMA match, and the roles change drastically, but I would say a special forces guy could definitely beat many MMA fighters on their own ground quite regularly - 4 out of 10. Edge - Israeli Krav Maga, Russian Spetznaz The best guys in these systems are mind blowing, beyond explanation. The absolute last people you want to mess with.[/quote'] Disagree 100 percent:) they would lose in MMA match and in a street fight. MMA fighters train in just fighting and trust me many of these guys also know other moves like groin shots or whatever beacuse they teach that in almost every martial art, they just dont use them in the ring. And special forces guys have much less training in martial arts then proffesional fighters. And one more thing Krav Maga guys have no hand tehnique whatsoever, they rely on surprise, eye gauges and groin kicks. They have no spparring everything they do is based on theory. That might do agains guys with no knowledge of any kind of martial art but I personally bealieve they would even have a problem with a trained boxer in a street fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodus9mm Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I think top MMA fighters would tear apart most special ops soldiers. It's just a question of time spent training- I don't care how tough some of the military guys are' date=' their focus is not on hand-to-hand combat, and the MMA guys are going to have far superior reflexes and technique. I don't think the lethal moves that the military teaches would be enough to overcome that. As far as sepcial ops guys competing in MMA, check out what happened to Brandon Wolff, former SEAL, when he got in the octagon with Ben Saunders.[/quote'] Brandon Wolff isn't nearly the best SEAL in the world. Nor are SEALS trained remotely close to those in Krav Maga or Systema. These systems are based off mixed martial arts techniques, with the added of inclusion of how to kill your opponent in 1 blow. There's no contest here. Forget the Berets and SEALS, learn about Krav and Systema. Sure SEALS and Berets could be beaten by MMA. I doubt the best Krav and Systema fighters in the world could be. These are the toughest men on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daweedy Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Brandon Wolff isn't nearly the best SEAL in the world. Nor are SEALS trained remotely close to those in Krav Maga or Systema. These systems are based off mixed martial arts techniques' date=' with the added of inclusion of how to kill your opponent in 1 blow. There's no contest here. Forget the Berets and SEALS, learn about Krav and Systema. Sure SEALS and Berets could be beaten by MMA. I doubt the best Krav and Systema fighters in the world could be. These are the toughest men on the planet.[/quote'] Systema is fake martial art and is only a myth. I suggest to you that you stop watching movies so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainSuperman Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Oh, if were talking street fighting, then most likely a fighter from the military would win. Think. MMA fight in sport, not to lose. Military forces train not to die. Imagine the most Liddell fights, Liddell backing up, hoping that he can throw a punch that will land and KO his opponent. While forces train for self defense, and for lethal kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodus9mm Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Disagree 100 percent:) they would lose in MMA match and in a street fight. MMA fighters train in just fighting and trust me many of these guys also know other moves like groin shots or whatever beacuse they teach that in almost every martial art' date=' they just dont use them in the ring. And special forces guys have much less training in martial arts then proffesional fighters. And one more thing Krav Maga guys have no hand tehnique whatsoever, they rely on surprise, eye gauges and groin kicks. They have no spparring everything they do is based on theory. That might do agains guys with no knowledge of any kind of martial art but I personally bealieve they would even have a problem with a trained boxer in a street fight.[/quote'] I'll point you to a synopsis of Systema. You don't think these guys are martial arts? They come from some of the most pure forms of it. No hand to hand combat? No striking? I think you need to do some more research. I've got a buddy who has trained Krav, Systema and even trains MMA fighters, and he's shown me the answer to this question. The guy is a die-hard MMA fan, and fully understands how deadly the best guys in Systema and Krav Maga really are. If you took one of the best Systema guys in the world, then trained him up hard on more rounded MMA, you'd have the toughest mother****er on the planet. These guys all have skills to hurt and kill other men. I would say this practice is much more refined in the elite fighting systems than MMA. Read up on this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systema You'll notice there are hybrid systems in place of Combat Sambo - oddly enough Fedor is one of the best at this, and coincidentally, he's the baddest man on the planet. Thread done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodus9mm Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Oh' date=' if were talking street fighting, then most likely a fighter from the military would win. Think. MMA fight in sport, not to lose. Military forces train not to die. Imagine the most Liddell fights, Liddell backing up, hoping that he can throw a punch that will land and KO his opponent. While forces train for self defense, and for lethal kills.[/quote'] Let's be clear here. Quit using 'military' guy would win. This isn't the case. Most joe's in the military would get schooled by MMA fighters. We have to clarify that we're talking about the world's foremost practitioners of Systema and Krav Maga - I'll throw in a handful of the best Green Berets and SAS to keep the Yanks and Brits happy. This is a MASSIVE clarification. And this only applies to a street fight. If you put the Systema master in the cage in a sanctioned (rules) MMA fight, the MMA fighter has the edge. I think people are very mistaken about the martial arts that make up the focus of Systema and Krav Maga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade7 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Being that special ops forces trained in Krav Maga' date=' Spetznaz and any other lethal fighting system, and trained well, would destroy any of the MMA competitors today. Not in an MMA match, but in a street fight. No questions. Sure an MMA fighter could win a street fight, but I'd say 1 out of 10. Change that into a sanctioned MMA match, and the roles change drastically, but I would say a special forces guy could definitely beat many MMA fighters on their own ground quite regularly - 4 out of 10. Edge - Israeli Krav Maga, Russian Spetznaz The best guys in these systems are mind blowing, beyond explanation. The absolute last people you want to mess with.[/quote'] This is beginning to sound like the mythical kung-fu masters discussion. If there were so many unarmed fighting masters being produced by the world's special ops forces, they would be appearing in MMA matches and winning regularly. But somehow that's not happening. If the special ops guys were the true masters of unarmed combat, they would have torn up Gracie in the early days of the UFC when there were fewer rules. But they didn't. I'm sure a Krav Maga or Spetsnaz guy would be nasty in a street fight. But as dangerous as a top MMA fighter? Yes, maybe in certain situations, but overall, no way. It's not like there are any magical secrets possesed by these guys, or like an MMA fighter would be an idiot and follow rules either. I'm sure Gonzaga could kick a Spetsnaz guy in the balls faster and harder than he would be kicked in return. And just think about it for a moment: unarmed combat is just a tiny part of what a special forces soldier has to learn, and hardly the focus for someone who has to survive on a modern battlefield. How much time do they actually spend in unarmed combat training in a two or four year program, with all of the other skills they have to master? I mean no disrespect to special ops soldiers, they are the best at what they do- but let's be realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodus9mm Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Systema is fake martial art and is only a myth. I suggest to you that you stop watching movies so much Wow dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodus9mm Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 This is beginning to sound like the mythical kung-fu masters discussion. If there were so many unarmed fighting masters being produced by the world's special ops forces' date=' they would be appearing in MMA matches and winning regularly. But somehow that's not happening. If the special ops guys were the true masters of unarmed combat, they would have torn up Gracie in the early days of the UFC when there were fewer rules. But they didn't. I'm sure a Krav Maga or Spetsnaz guy would be nasty in a street fight. But as dangerous as a top MMA fighter? Yes, maybe in certain situations, but overall, no way. It's not like there are any magical secrets possesed by these guys, or like an MMA fighter would be an idiot and follow rules either. I'm sure Gonzaga could kick a Spetsnaz guy in the balls faster and harder than he would be kicked in return. And just think about it for a moment: unarmed combat is just a tiny part of what a special forces soldier has to learn, and hardly the focus for someone who has to survive on a modern battlefield. How much time do they actually spend in unarmed combat training in a two or four year program, with all of the other skills they have to master? I mean no disrespect to special ops soldiers, they are the best at what they do- but let's be realistic.[/quote'] This is the highest military levels we're talking here. Not corporate consumerism ala UFC. These guys have no interest in playing in the UFC or Strikeforce. First off, because their allegiances won't likely allow it, secondly, because it's irrelevant to why they are training certain systems. I love how this mentality that anyone who knows how to fight, would obviously be fighting for fame and fortune in the UFC. That's sad. Dana has done a great job on you guys. All I can say is read up on Systema dude. Your presumptions about unarmed combat are so wrong, I'll let you research it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daweedy Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I'll point you to a synopsis of Systema. You don't think these guys are martial arts? They come from some of the most pure forms of it. No hand to hand combat? No striking? I think you need to do some more research. I've got a buddy who has trained Krav' date=' Systema and even trains MMA fighters, and he's shown me the answer to this question. The guy is a die-hard MMA fan, and fully understands how deadly the best guys in Systema and Krav Maga really are. If you took one of the best Systema guys in the world, then trained him up hard on more rounded MMA, you'd have the toughest mother****er on the planet. These guys all have skills to hurt and kill other men. I would say this practice is much more refined in the elite fighting systems than MMA. Read up on this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systema You'll notice there are hybrid systems in place of Combat Sambo - oddly enough Fedor is one of the best at this, and coincidentally, he's the baddest man on the planet. Thread done.[/quote'] Fedor said he never trained in systema;) Look I trained ninjutsu for more than four years under the guy who is 13 degree black belt, and we were constantly training al this groin shots and eye gauges and neck attacks but we didnt have any sparring becuse ninjutsu is supposably to deadly for that. And there were a lot of police guys and special forces guys who were training this also. I must add that Ninjutsu is very similar to Krav Maga. And I once went to box with a friend who trained boxing for 5 months and I got my **** handed to me. I stopped trainig ninjutsu ever since beacuse now I KNOW that you cant be better in hand to hand combat against someone who constantly sparrs and has experience with different opponents. Learning this neck attack and eye gauges is easiest but training real standup techinqe is much more difficult. Special forces guys are efficient as a surprise units and with weapons but cant win in an open fight against true martial artists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhet Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Keep in mind that the guys in these systems are well versed in grappling' date=' wrestling, striking and death.[/quote']Hehe. What's being well versed in grappling when you stand against a top grappler in the world?? What's being well versed in wrestling when you stand against a top wrestler in the world?? What's being well versed in striking when you stand against Anderson Silva?? You cannot compete against a professional athlete, who is at the top of the food chain. Think about it, guys in the special forces, in the army or whatever - they run a lot and do other extensive cardio training, right?? But does it mean they could compete against an Olympic marathon runner in long distance running?? No. Not even close. Those athletes make an extreme and maximum possible adaptation of their bodies to the discipline they're performing. And similarily, MMA athletes' power, agility, strength, endurance, speed, reflexes and technique are at the maxium of human capabilities. ------------------------------- A Krav Maga guy may be well prepared and have dozen of moves when some guy puts an arm on his shoulder wanting to him with a bottle, but he is not prepared to fight a guy who has a black belt in jiu-jitsu and in judo or sambo, is an olympic level wrestler and has world level muai thai/kickboxing skills, plus some karate and some kung fu - and apart from which, has the level of fitness the Krav Maga guy has never even seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodus9mm Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 If well rounded MMA was considered the best fighting structure in the world, why then is every top level law enforcement and special forces in the world, learning Krav Maga? Again, do some more reading..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daweedy Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 This is beginning to sound like the mythical kung-fu masters discussion. If there were so many unarmed fighting masters being produced by the world's special ops forces' date=' they would be appearing in MMA matches and winning regularly. But somehow that's not happening. If the special ops guys were the true masters of unarmed combat, they would have torn up Gracie in the early days of the UFC when there were fewer rules. But they didn't. I'm sure a Krav Maga or Spetsnaz guy would be nasty in a street fight. But as dangerous as a top MMA fighter? Yes, maybe in certain situations, but overall, no way. It's not like there are any magical secrets possesed by these guys, or like an MMA fighter would be an idiot and follow rules either. I'm sure Gonzaga could kick a Spetsnaz guy in the balls faster and harder than he would be kicked in return. And just think about it for a moment: unarmed combat is just a tiny part of what a special forces soldier has to learn, and hardly the focus for someone who has to survive on a modern battlefield. How much time do they actually spend in unarmed combat training in a two or four year program, with all of the other skills they have to master? I mean no disrespect to special ops soldiers, they are the best at what they do- but let's be realistic.[/quote'] Agreed and one more thing if these guys are so deadly why no one of them comes to UFC and destroys everybody. Surely being a UFC fighter is much more paid and much less life threatening than being a special forces guy:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kman747 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Well if there was no rules then the SEAL would destroy the MMA fighter, hands down. But UFC has many more restrictions than a all out anything goes fight. In a UFC fight i think a UFC fighter would most likely win because a SEAL's focus isn't on fighting, it's more on modern warfare (guns, missiles, stealth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodus9mm Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Fedor said he never trained in systema;) Look I trained ninjutsu for more than four years under the guy who is 13 degree black belt' date=' and we were constantly training al this groin shots and eye gauges and neck attacks but we didnt have any sparring becuse ninjutsu is supposably to deadly for that. And there were a lot of police guys and special forces guys who were training this also. I must add that Ninjutsu is very similar to Krav Maga. And I once went to box with a friend who trained boxing for 5 months and I got my **** handed to me. I stopped trainig ninjutsu ever since beacuse now I KNOW that you cant be better in hand to hand combat against someone who constantly sparrs and has experience with different opponents. Learning this neck attack and eye gauges is easiest but training real standup techinqe is much more difficult. Special forces guys are efficient as a surprise units and with weapons but cant win in an open fight against true martial artists[/quote'] I'm not talking about your abilities or Ninjutsu. I'm talking about the elite Krav Maga and Systema practitioners in the world vs the elite MMA fighters of the world. In a street fight. Take your cage win and walk away with some semblance of pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodus9mm Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Well if there was no rules then the SEAL would destroy the MMA fighter' date=' hands down. But UFC has many more restrictions than a all out anything goes fight. In a UFC fight i think a UFC fighter would most likely win because a SEAL's focus isn't on fighting, it's more on modern warfare (guns, missiles, stealth).[/quote'] I don't know how clearer I can make this - SEALS are not the best special ops fighters in the world, especially in hand to hand combat. We're talking about Systema and Krav Maga here - forget SEALS, or Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodus9mm Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Agreed and one more thing if these guys are so deadly why no one of them comes to UFC and destroys everybody. Surely being a UFC fighter is much more paid and much less life threatening than being a special forces guy:) As posted previously..... This is the highest military levels we're talking here. Not corporate consumerism ala UFC. These guys have no interest in playing in the UFC or Strikeforce. First off, because their allegiances won't likely allow it, secondly, because it's irrelevant to why they are training certain systems. I love how this mentality that anyone who knows how to fight, would obviously be fighting for fame and fortune in the UFC. That's sad. Dana has done a great job on you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade7 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 If well rounded MMA was considered the best fighting structure in the world' date=' why then is every top level law enforcement and special forces in the world, learning Krav Maga? Again, do some more reading..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga[/quote'] If Krav Maga was the best in the world, why isn't it appearing in the octagon? Have you considered that maybe Krav Maga's just the best for getting quick and dirty results when you have people who can't devote years and thousands of hours to training, but need to become competent in a few techniques that could save their lives after a short training program? And I really don't buy that these guys are some sort of moral purists who have given up money and worldly ways, and that's why we don't see them competing in MMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainSuperman Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Let's be clear here. Quit using 'military' guy would win. This isn't the case. Most joe's in the military would get schooled by MMA fighters. We have to clarify that we're talking about the world's foremost practitioners of Systema and Krav Maga - I'll throw in a handful of the best Green Berets and SAS to keep the Yanks and Brits happy. This is a MASSIVE clarification. And this only applies to a street fight. If you put the Systema master in the cage in a sanctioned (rules) MMA fight' date=' the MMA fighter has the edge. I think people are very mistaken about the martial arts that make up the focus of Systema and Krav Maga.[/quote'] Oh, I didn't read the first post, so I thought just by the topic we were talking about regular schmoes in the military. But in my second post, I had in mind the people highly trained in Krav Maga and such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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