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IF Machida gets past shogun again, who in lhw can beat him???


Dwillin87

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any thoughts on this? ive been going through the lhw fighters' date=' and idk who can do it. if you have an idea let me know.[/quote']

 

Anyone - Machida's false hype was destroyed last Saturday, and he looks barely better than an average fighter. Rashad could take him in a rematch, Rampage would definitely ruin him. This stigma that the guy is the second coming was hilarious, and it was shattered by Shogun. There will be no Machida era, mark my words.

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Anyone - Machida's false hype was destroyed last Saturday' date=' and he looks barely better than an average fighter. Rashad could take him in a rematch, Rampage would definitely ruin him. This stigma that the guy is the second coming was hilarious, and it was shattered by Shogun. There will be no Machida era, mark my words.[/quote']

 

Ok.. I KNOW you are a huge Shogun fan (nothing wrong with that)....so for your own sake please think before you post.

 

You say Lyoto barely looked better then an average fighter. Your own words there.

 

Now... Lyoto has a VERY VERY close match with Shogun. Like.. razor thin decision close.

 

Now if Lyoto looked barely better then average what does that say about Shogun? He must be barely better then average too... after all that was a close fight.

 

sigh...

 

We both know Shogun is better then average. a lot better. And in a fight that was that close that HAS to mean lyoto is better then average as well.

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Yes, it's true. Rua exposed Machida's weakness during their match. In fact, I remember one blogger in this forum saying that there will indeed be one fighter who will be able to exploit and capitalize on Lyoto's lapse in gameplan- and that one fighter is Shogun. But remember- all great fighters had their lackluster moments, hollow victories and tragic losses. Although his battle with Rua wasn't counted as a loss technically, it wasn't exactly a shining moment for the Dragon. Even Machida and his camp can attest to that. But a mark of a true warrior and a champion is not being able to maintain a flawless record but to bounce back from a loss or a dubious win. The Dragon CAN and WILL get better! I'm not one to say his style is close to perfection in spite of his back-to-back wins against the toughest fighters UFC has to offer. In fact, I was one of those Machida fans that didn't underestimate or trivialize Shogun because he has never face his likes before. And far be it from me to be saying that Machida will KO Shogun this time around, because that would be like shooting for the stars. What I' m pointing out is that if he wins this time, it will be more convincing and he will be vindicated.

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Apparently you watched a differant fight than I did.IMO Shogun beat Machido.I did not think it was really that close.Everybody but those ref's and loyal Machido fans thought Shogun won the fight.Dana White needs to step in before the UFC starts to lose credibility with the fans.

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Ok.. I KNOW you are a huge Shogun fan (nothing wrong with that)....so for your own sake please think before you post.

 

You say Lyoto barely looked better then an average fighter. Your own words there.

 

Now... Lyoto has a VERY VERY close match with Shogun. Like.. razor thin decision close.

 

Now if Lyoto looked barely better then average what does that say about Shogun? He must be barely better then average too... after all that was a close fight.

 

sigh...

 

We both know Shogun is better then average. a lot better. And in a fight that was that close that HAS to mean lyoto is better then average as well.

 

Dude, I've said the same thing in one of the other threads. You and I share a brain. Most of your replies are things that I've said to my friends to convince them that Machida won that fight! lol

 

Maybe Exodus thinks Keith Jardine could beat Machida!! He's got some NASTY leg kicks of his own!

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Apparently you watched a differant fight than I did.IMO Shogun beat Machido.I did not think it was really that close.Everybody but those ref's and loyal Machido fans thought Shogun won the fight.Dana White needs to step in before the UFC starts to lose credibility with the fans.

 

You obviously didn't understand a word I said. I never said I agreed with the way he won the match. I watch the match, and even as a big fan of the Dragon, I was not impress by Machida's performance. In fact, I think the fight went in Rua's way. I'm just saying that the Dragon still has enough fight left in him to redeem his good name. And believe me, he will do just that.

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Ok.. I KNOW you are a huge Shogun fan (nothing wrong with that)....so for your own sake please think before you post.

 

You say Lyoto barely looked better then an average fighter. Your own words there.

 

Now... Lyoto has a VERY VERY close match with Shogun. Like.. razor thin decision close.

 

Now if Lyoto looked barely better then average what does that say about Shogun? He must be barely better then average too... after all that was a close fight.

 

sigh...

 

We both know Shogun is better then average. a lot better. And in a fight that was that close that HAS to mean lyoto is better then average as well.

 

If you're judged only as good as your last fight (and there is no better example for this cliche than MMA), then I'd say Machida looked pretty average. And by no means was it razor close. It was at worst a UD for Shogun on 3 rounds, and a 4-1 Shogun decisive point victory in my opinion.

 

Honestly, Machida is a talented bastard for sure. He's rejuvenated a dying art and showed why it was so prominent for hundreds of years. But this recent hype as of late really annoyed me because I think it's way too soon to prop this guy up so high. And a very simple gameplan (albeit effective) employed by Shogun was enough to ruin him clearly. Guaranteed Shogun victory at the rematch. He's pissed, and you're gonna see Belfort-esque hands to go with the same devastating kicks we saw in the first one. Shogun is back baby. Lookout.

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If you're judged only as good as your last fight (and there is no better example for this cliche than MMA)' date=' then I'd say Machida looked pretty average. And by no means was it razor close. It was at worst a UD for Shogun on 3 rounds, and a 4-1 Shogun decisive point victory in my opinion.

 

Honestly, Machida is a talented bastard for sure. He's rejuvenated a dying art and showed why it was so prominent for hundreds of years. But this recent hype as of late really annoyed me because I think it's way too soon to prop this guy up so high. And a very simple gameplan (albeit effective) employed by Shogun was enough to ruin him clearly. Guaranteed Shogun victory at the rematch. He's pissed, and you're gonna see Belfort-esque hands to go with the same devastating kicks we saw in the first one. Shogun is back baby. Lookout.[/quote']

 

As soon as he starts to throw punches, he will get knocked out.

Considering you say Machida looked 'average', I guess Shogun is 'average' as well. You're not much of a Shogun fan, either, are you?

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Anyone - Machida's false hype was destroyed last Saturday' date=' and he looks barely better than an average fighter. Rashad could take him in a rematch, Rampage would definitely ruin him. This stigma that the guy is the second coming was hilarious, and it was shattered by Shogun. There will be no Machida era, mark my words.[/quote']

Shogun was able to pick him apart with kicks that neutralized his range game. I don't think Rashad's feet are that good. Rampage doesn't have anything on Machida. If you don't use your legs in the stand up game as a primary weapon Machida will dance around you and make you pay. Shogun is amongst the best in LHW with his legs and his kicks, and he couldn't finish Machida even exploiting his greatest weakness. I don't think Machida is an easy fight for anyone. I don't think he's even an easy rematch for Shogun.

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Im sure I'll be flamed but I think Thiago Silva could do it if he takes him down. He's a big strong guy and I could see him dominating on the ground.

 

The key would be to damage Lyoto early to make him less effective in the standup

 

Clinch>Knees to the thighs same as shogun did and take him down and ground n pound and be prepared for a 5 round war.

 

Don't know if anyone knows this but Shogun had the lowest resting heart rate of any fighter at 104. It was 44. That's fricken insane. He was in excellent shape for this fight.

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As soon as he starts to throw punches' date=' he will get knocked out.

Considering you say Machida looked 'average', I guess Shogun is 'average' as well. You're not much of a Shogun fan, either, are you?[/quote']

 

Not a huge fan, but a fan. I've seen a good chuck of his career, and have always been interested in watching him fight. He's an animal. A mans fighter. Machida is a backwards shuffling defensive counter-puncher. A womans fighter. I can't get into a guy who is always backing up. That aside, Machida is obviously a serious threat to anyone at LHW. But in my opinion, based on the pre-fight hype, Machida looked comparatively average. Shogun wasn't average. He was above average, if for nothing else than the fact that it was the best Shogun anyone has seen for a couple of years. A healthy, driven Shogun is not a man I'd want to fight.

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Shogun was able to pick him apart with kicks that neutralized his range game. I don't think Rashad's feet are that good. Rampage doesn't have anything on Machida. If you don't use your legs in the stand up game as a primary weapon Machida will dance around you and make you pay. Shogun is amongst the best in LHW with his legs and his kicks' date=' and he couldn't finish Machida even exploiting his greatest weakness. I don't think Machida is an easy fight for anyone. I don't think he's even an easy rematch for Shogun.[/quote']

 

A healthy, trained Page would annihilate Machida. My reason being, he's got one of the best chins/heads in the game. He's taken some of the biggest beatings and rarely been knocked out. I don't think Machida has the power in his punches to hamper Jackson. I see Rampage taking a Machida flurry, and ending the fight with a counter left hook (ala Wanderlei). This would obviously require a mentally/physically healthy, well trained, focused Rampage, which is about as far removed as you can get at this point.

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Not a huge fan' date=' but a fan. I've seen a good chuck of his career, and have always been interested in watching him fight. He's an animal. A mans fighter. Machida is a backwards shuffling defensive counter-puncher. A womans fighter. I can't get into a guy who is always backing up. That aside, Machida is obviously a serious threat to anyone at LHW. But in my opinion, based on the pre-fight hype, Machida looked comparatively average. Shogun wasn't average. He was above average, if for nothing else than the fact that it was the best Shogun anyone has seen for a couple of years. A healthy, driven Shogun is not a man I'd want to fight.[/quote']

 

So what you're saying, is that because this was the best Shogun we've ever seen, that it makes Machida look 'average'?

Wow man.. I'd LOVE to be an 'average' fighter!!

 

Your problem, is that you let other people and sources dictate what you think of a certain fighter. Pre-fight hype is there to garner the interest of the casual fan, which I'm assuming you're not.. though your actions the last few days are leading me to believe otherwise.

If you bought into the pre-fight hype of Machida as an invincible knock-out artist, you obviously haven't seen very many Machida fights.

Stop letting people tell you what you should think of certain fighters, and come up with your own conclusion.

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Rashad by decision, Rampage by T/KO and Shogun of course.

There is more than one way to beat Machida. I think if Rashad pressured him for a takedown he would either get it eventually or work Machida's legs until he got frustrated. As for Rampage he probably could just brawl with Machida and topple him over as long as he picked off his shots at first and waited for a clear opening (yes Machida can be hit).

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So what you're saying' date=' is that because this was the best Shogun we've ever seen, that it makes Machida look 'average'?

Wow man.. I'd LOVE to be an 'average' fighter!!

 

Your problem, is that you let other people and sources dictate what you think of a certain fighter. Pre-fight hype is there to garner the interest of the casual fan, which I'm assuming you're not.. though your actions the last few days are leading me to believe otherwise.

If you bought into the pre-fight hype of Machida as an invincible knock-out artist, you obviously haven't seen very many Machida fights.

Stop letting people tell you what you should think of certain fighters, and come up with your own conclusion.[/quote']

 

I have my own opinions of Machida. That's what I've been explaining. I never bought into the hype. As stated, I feel he's overhyped. And I've seen 3/4 of Machidas fights. I'm on here ragging on those who bought the Machida hype, and saw a "COMPARATIVELY" average Machida. With such a huge odds difference to boot, what Machida showed was poor at best. I couldn't be any clearer in my personal opinion of Machida, so I'm not sure how you are implying that my opinion is based on anything but my own perception.

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Rashad by decision' date=' Rampage by T/KO and Shogun of course.

There is more than one way to beat Machida. I think if Rashad pressured him for a takedown he would either get it eventually or work Machida's legs until he got frustrated. As for Rampage he probably could just brawl with Machida and topple him over as long as he picked off his shots at first and waited for a clear opening (yes Machida can be hit).[/quote']

 

Agree that if Rashad had utilized his amazing wrestling skills, he could have gone for an easy GnP over Lyoto. Rashad went from wrestler to striker, and I wish he had a better blend going on.

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I have my own opinions of Machida. That's what I've been explaining. I never bought into the hype. As stated' date=' I feel he's overhyped. And I've seen 3/4 of Machidas fights. I'm on here ragging on those who bought the Machida hype, and saw a "COMPARATIVELY" average Machida. With such a huge odds difference to boot, what Machida showed was poor at best. I couldn't be any clearer in my personal opinion of Machida, so I'm not sure how you are implying that my opinion is based on anything but my own perception.[/quote']

 

Bottom line, is that it's only hype of you believe it.

If you expected to see a Machida that was moving forwards and looking for a knockout, you need to brush up on your MMA knowledge.

Why do you even care about hype or what other people think, anyways?

Most knowledgeable fans would have agreed that this fight was going to be WAYYYY closer than the oddsmakers had it.

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Bottom line' date=' is that it's only hype of you believe it.

If you expected to see a Machida that was moving forwards and looking for a knockout, you need to brush up on your MMA knowledge.

Why do you even care about hype or what other people think, anyways?

Most knowledgeable fans would have agreed that this fight was going to be WAYYYY closer than the oddsmakers had it.[/quote']

 

I didn't expect anything from Machida, other than what we saw. It went exactly as I thought it would, minus the knockout. I'm well aware of his counter-fighting.

It's entertaining to come on and return fire to the folks who were screaming "guaranteed 100% Machida win, KO 1st round" prefight. That's all.

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I didn't expect anything from Machida' date=' other than what we saw. It went exactly as I thought it would, minus the knockout. I'm well aware of his counter-fighting.

It's entertaining to come on and return fire to the folks who were screaming "guaranteed 100% Machida win, KO 1st round" prefight. That's all.[/quote']

 

I'll agree with you on that part. Everyone who was expecting a quick fight sure underestimated either Machida or Rua.

Personally, I thought Shogun was going to come apart in the later round due to a lack of conditioning, and maybe a sense of urgency. I thought he would grow tired of chasing Machida around the Octagon and would eventually get reckless and KO'd.

 

Would you agree with me if I said that Machida and Shogun are probably the top two LHW's in the world? Definitely somewhere in the top five if you add Anderson Silva and Gegard Mousasi to that list? The order you have them in really doesn't matter.. all I'm asking is that if you agree that they should be placed in the same group as fighters of that calibre.

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Ok.. I KNOW you are a huge Shogun fan (nothing wrong with that)....so for your own sake please think before you post.

 

You say Lyoto barely looked better then an average fighter. Your own words there.

 

Now... Lyoto has a VERY VERY close match with Shogun. Like.. razor thin decision close.

 

Now if Lyoto looked barely better then average what does that say about Shogun? He must be barely better then average too... after all that was a close fight.

 

sigh...

 

We both know Shogun is better then average. a lot better. And in a fight that was that close that HAS to mean lyoto is better then average as well.

 

Razor thin??? Close??? What fight were you watching?

 

The four criteria for scoring an mma fight are Control of the fight area (Octagon Control)' date=' Effective Aggressiveness and Defense [b'](Aggression)[/b], effective striking and effective grappling....

 

There was no grappling in this fight.

 

Aggression and Octagon Control have to go to Shogun for three reasons

 

1) Shogun pursued Machida all five rounds, with Machida running away while trying to sneak pop-shots.

 

2) Shogun threw more shots while advancing and during exchanges every round...

 

3) Shogun landed more shots and more power shots every round....

 

With that said, I still gave Machida round 3.....but that was generous.....

 

In order for a judge to score that fight for Machida, he would have to do three things.

 

1) Not count leg kicks at all.

 

2) Not count the strikes thrown or landed throughout each round.

 

and

 

3) Not count Aggression or Octagon Control as a scoring criteria for the fight.

 

numbers don't lie

 

http://compustrike.com/stats_files/ufc_104/MacHida-Rua.HTM

 

http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

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Razor thin??? Close??? What fight were you watching?

 

The four criteria for scoring an mma fight are Control of the fight area (Octagon Control)' date=' Effective Aggressiveness and Defense [b'](Aggression)[/b], effective striking and effective grappling....

 

There was no grappling in this fight.

 

Aggression and Octagon Control have to go to Shogun for three reasons

 

1) Shogun pursued Machida all five rounds, with Machida running away while trying to sneak pop-shots.

 

2) Shogun threw more shots while advancing and during exchanges every round...

 

3) Shogun landed more shots and more power shots every round....

 

With that said, I still gave Machida round 3.....but that was generous.....

 

In order for a judge to score that fight for Machida, he would have to do three things.

 

1) Not count leg kicks at all.

 

2) Not count the strikes thrown or landed throughout each round.

 

and

 

3) Not count Aggression or Octagon Control as a scoring criteria for the fight.

 

numbers don't lie

 

http://compustrike.com/stats_files/ufc_104/MacHida-Rua.HTM

 

http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

 

As I've said many times before..

You go make your arguments with some stupid numbers.

Anyone who quotes those numbers as fact, obviously hasn't seen the fight. They've probably just read the write-ups online, saw the inaccurate fightmetic stats, and listened to popular opinion.

 

Watch the fight before you post random nonsense.

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Machida needs to start being warned when fighting timidly, which is against the unified rules of mma. Intentionally and excessively avoiding engaging your opponent is a foul. First, he should have been warned, then, there should have been some deductions....

 

Machida literally ran so much that he was only able to throw 4 strikes per minute, he landed less than two a minute.....that might not seem that bad for an MMA match, but for one with no grappling, its godawful.....that is what the Timidity foul was designed to prevent against, unfortunately, I have never seen this rule enforced.....

 

The rule was designed to ensure that fights are kept entertaining, while creating a system that doesnt favor timid fighters....they need to go back to the yellow card system, at least that way, If machida puts on a bad show but manages to eek a decision, he loses money just like i did paying to watch his horrible fight.....

 

I thought Machida learned how to engage his opponents and not fight so scared after the Rashad and Thiago Silva fights.....I was wrong.....

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As I've said many times before..

You go make your arguments with some stupid numbers.

Anyone who quotes those numbers as fact' date=' obviously hasn't seen the fight. They've probably just read the write-ups online, saw the inaccurate fightmetic stats, and listened to popular opinion.

 

Watch the fight before you post random nonsense.[/quote']

 

I see you read the last line of my argument and thats all.

 

Explain how you think Machida demonstrated aggression or octagon control better than machida....Or how the hell he outstruck machida....shogun landed double. I knew that was robbery from the moment i watched....

 

Shogun had the right strategy......If Machida is going to run and try to point-spar you in a professional mma promotion......point-spar him back with longer reach....the rest is history.....

 

You ever hear the expression "the most logical explanation is usually the correct one?"

 

Which is more likely?

 

1) 90% of the MMA fans on the internet, compustrike, fightmetric, espn, all the fighters at UFC 104 (excluding A. Silva) and the 15,000 fans in attendance were all in some huge conspiracy to make it seem as though Shogun should have gotten the decision...with no motivation or provocation.

 

(keep in mind, most people thought Machida would win and most were rooting for him at the start. The crowd wasnt booing because their fighter lost, they were booing because Shogun was robbed)

 

or

 

2) There might be something about this fight or the scoring criteria for mma that you didn't see or don't quite get.

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Who else in LHW can beat Machida?

 

All you need is a more cut-throat blood-hungry version of Shogun, so Shogun, for starters. He had the PERFECT game plan, but maybe left out the killer instinct. He could have used a little bit of Vitor-blood in him. Which brings me to this: I would love to see Belfort vs Machida. When his mind is in the right place, Belfort is just as if not more exposive than Machida in my opinion. Furthermore I think Vitor has learned alot more and matured as a fighter alot, which is a threat to anyone opposing him.

 

I would also love to see Nate Marquardt move up to LHW and face Machida. I think that Marquardt is very well rounded smart fighter who can push the pace whenever he feels like it, which would be great to see against one of the best counter-attack fighters in the world.

 

And while we're at it lets just throw in a Couture vs Machida because Couture is facing any and every top contender in the division and is scared of no one. You just cant under-estimate Randy, and I think hes greco-roman wrestling and clinch skills will be a big test for Lyoto.

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Yes' date=' it's true. Rua exposed Machida's weakness during their match. In fact, I remember one blogger in this forum saying that there will indeed be one fighter who will be able to exploit and capitalize on Lyoto's lapse in gameplan- and that one fighter is Shogun. But remember- all great fighters had their lackluster moments, hollow victories and tragic losses. Although his battle with Rua wasn't counted as a loss technically, it wasn't exactly a shining moment for the Dragon. Even Machida and his camp can attest to that. But a mark of a true warrior and a champion is not being able to maintain a flawless record but to bounce back from a loss or a dubious win. The Dragon CAN and WILL get better! I'm not one to say his style is close to perfection in spite of his back-to-back wins against the toughest fighters UFC has to offer. In fact, I was one of those Machida fans that didn't underestimate or trivialize Shogun because he has never face his likes before. And far be it from me to be saying that Machida will KO Shogun this time around, because that would be like shooting for the stars. What I' m pointing out is that if he wins this time, it will be more convincing and he will be vindicated.[/quote']

 

Was it Me?

 

I remember posting on here that Leg Kicks as well as Body kicks are the way too beat Machida and that Shogun was the fighter that can do it!

 

Maybe its me, maybe its not me that said it.

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Who else in LHW can beat Machida?

 

All you need is a more cut-throat blood-hungry version of Shogun' date=' so Shogun, for starters. He had the PERFECT game plan, but maybe left out the killer instinct. He could have used a little bit of Vitor-blood in him. Which brings me to this: I would love to see Belfort vs Machida. When his mind is in the right place, Belfort is just as if not more exposive than Machida in my opinion. Furthermore I think Vitor has learned alot more and matured as a fighter alot, which is a threat to anyone opposing him.

 

I would also love to see Nate Marquardt move up to LHW and face Machida. I think that Marquardt is very well rounded smart fighter who can push the pace whenever he feels like it, which would be great to see against one of the best counter-attack fighters in the world.

 

And while we're at it lets just throw in a Couture vs Machida because Couture is facing any and every top contender in the division and is scared of no one. You just cant under-estimate Randy, and I think hes greco-roman wrestling and clinch skills will be a big test for Lyoto.[/quote']

 

I think Vitor can beat Anderson, but not Machida....his aggressive style would play right into machida's hand.....in order to beat machida, you have to turn it into a boring display of point sparring. The second you rush him, you are going to get hurt, he is good at that, which is why he runs so damn much. But if you slowly move toward him and fight his fight, he really cant do much.....except pray to Cecil Peoples for another miracle....

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I think Vitor can beat Anderson' date=' but not Machida....his aggressive style would play right into machida's hand.....in order to beat machida, you have to turn it into a boring display of point sparring. The second you rush him, you are going to get hurt, he is good at that, which is why he runs so damn much. But if you slowly move toward him and fight his fight, he really cant do much.....except pray to Cecil Peoples for another miracle....[/quote']

 

Haha nice mention of Cecil Peoples.

 

Well, in saying that Vitor can beat Anderson but not Machida, does that mean that you think Machida's counter skills are better than Andersons? If anything I think the main difference between the two is Lyoto will block/step back move around and relocate, repeat the above and then counter. Anderson however may step back but he won't cut circles around you and relocate, he will step right back in the face, counter your moves with ducks and then catch you on the button (as seen from the Griffin fight).

 

The main reason I think Vitor has a chance vs Machida is because all he has to do is catch Machida once, not even on the button even, just enough to put off his rhythm, because as soon as Vitor sees you hurt he smells blood and then becomes a manic with punches quickest ive seen.

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I see you read the last line of my argument and thats all.

 

Explain how you think Machida demonstrated aggression or octagon control better than machida....Or how the hell he outstruck machida....shogun landed double. I knew that was robbery from the moment i watched....

 

Shogun had the right strategy......If Machida is going to run and try to point-spar you in a professional mma promotion......point-spar him back with longer reach....the rest is history.....

 

You ever hear the expression "the most logical explanation is usually the correct one?"

 

Which is more likely?

 

1) 90% of the MMA fans on the internet' date=' compustrike, fightmetric, espn, all the fighters at UFC 104 (excluding A. Silva) and the 15,000 fans in attendance were all in some huge conspiracy to make it seem as though Shogun should have gotten the decision...with no motivation or provocation.

 

(keep in mind, most people thought Machida would win and most were rooting for him at the start. The crowd wasnt booing because their fighter lost, they were booing because Shogun was robbed)

 

or

 

2) There might be something about this fight or the scoring criteria for mma that you didn't see or don't quite get.[/quote']

 

So you're admitting that you're a sheep? Well move along down the pasture with the rest of them. You take what everyone else is saying as gospel, and have nothing else new and informative to say.

 

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.. out of the 15000 people in attendance, how many of those people are actually educated fans of this sport? I'll tell you that it's a very small percentage. That small percentage of fans will EASILY be overrun by the loud, obnoxious, drunk people who came to see a brawl. The same ones that believed in the "Machida is an invincible, knockout machine" hype.

After this 'Machida guy' (as most would probably call him) failed to KO Shogun, and then viewing the visible damage to Lyoto's face (which occured in the 4th and 5th rounds), they quickly come to the conclusion that Shogun should be the winner.

There.. is that so hard to understand why 'everyone' was booing? (Point of fact here.. not EVERYONE was booing)

 

I've never said anything about any kind of conspiracy. I've also said on many occasions that Shogun got the better of Machida and won the battle... but he failed to win the first three rounds.

 

I completely understand the scoring criteria for an MMA fight.. which is probably why I had it the same way as two of the three judges (48-47, Machida wins the first 3 rounds). Nelson Hamilton scored it 48-47, but gave Machida rounds 2, 3, and 4. I fail to see how he could have scored the 4th round for Machida, but it was still very close.

 

I'd really love to be able to sit and watch the fight with the people that are convinced that Shogun 'absolutely destroyed' Machida. I would take great pleasure in pointing out how to PROPERLY score an MMA fight. It wouldn't hurt to educate yourselves.

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So you're admitting that you're a sheep? Well move along down the pasture with the rest of them. You take what everyone else is saying as gospel' date=' and have nothing else new and informative to say.

 

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.. out of the 15000 people in attendance, how many of those people are actually educated fans of this sport? I'll tell you that it's a very small percentage. That small percentage of fans will EASILY be overrun by the loud, obnoxious, drunk people who came to see a brawl. The same ones that believed in the "Machida is an invincible, knockout machine" hype.

After this 'Machida guy' (as most would probably call him) failed to KO Shogun, and then viewing the visible damage to Lyoto's face (which occured in the 4th and 5th rounds), they quickly come to the conclusion that Shogun should be the winner.

There.. is that so hard to understand why 'everyone' was booing? (Point of fact here.. not EVERYONE was booing)

 

I've never said anything about any kind of conspiracy. I've also said on many occasions that Shogun got the better of Machida and won the battle... but he failed to win the first three rounds.

 

I completely understand the scoring criteria for an MMA fight.. which is probably why I had it the same way as two of the three judges (48-47, Machida wins the first 3 rounds). Nelson Hamilton scored it 48-47, but gave Machida rounds 2, 3, and 4. I fail to see how he could have scored the 4th round for Machida, but it was still very close.

 

I'd really love to be able to sit and watch the fight with the people that are convinced that Shogun 'absolutely destroyed' Machida. I would take great pleasure in pointing out how to PROPERLY score an MMA fight. It wouldn't hurt to educate yourselves.[/quote']

 

I was at buffalo wild wings watching the fight.....everyone was there rooting for machida.....i liked both fighters too much to root for either one, but i was ready to see a great fight.....the second the fight was over, I was going to go home and post what a robbery i thought it was, unfortunately, I was beat to it by 90% of the internet fans so i joined the discussion.....

 

You on the other hand are very quick to jump on the "its cool to say machida won" wagon....there is nothing worse than a wagon of blind detractors, looking for attention through arguing against such an obvious no-brainer.....

 

Where was aggression and octagon control for machida the entire fight????

 

I gave machida the third round on my scorecard, but it was so close it could have easily been given to shogun for aggression and octagon control with the striking being basically even.....

 

Machida won that fight if kicks, aggression and octagon control are not included....otherwise, he lost 49-46

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I was at buffalo wild wings watching the fight.....everyone was there rooting for machida.....i liked both fighters too much to root for either one' date=' but i was ready to see a great fight.....the second the fight was over, I was going to go home and post what a robbery i thought it was, unfortunately, I was beat to it by 90% of the internet fans so i joined the discussion.....

 

You on the other hand are very quick to jump on the "its cool to say machida won" wagon....there is nothing worse than a wagon of blind detractors, looking for attention through arguing against such an obvious no-brainer.....

 

Where was aggression and octagon control for machida the entire fight????

 

I gave machida the third round on my scorecard, but it was so close it could have easily been given to shogun for aggression and octagon control with the striking being basically even.....

[b']Thank GOD we don't have judges like you. I'm assuming you scored the Franklin/Silva fight in Wanderlei's favour.[/b]

 

Machida won that fight if kicks, aggression and octagon control are not included....otherwise, he lost 49-46

 

Meaning you were there with a bunch of drunken baffoons who know absolutely nothing about this sport? Nice. I'll take their opinion over that of 3 qualified judges any day.

/end sarcasm

 

Read my reply to you in the "Cecil Peoples responds.." thread for info on aggression and Octagon control.

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Are you guys serious? Machida has a couple impressive knock-outs, and he's the most devastating untouchable fighter in history. He has a questionable performance against another elite LHW and he's chopped liver. The fact is, he is very good, and so is Shogun. Nobody is unbeatable. Nobody ever will be unbeatable. Shogun could beat him in the next fight, but if he tries to push too hard, he could get caught and finished. Same is true with Lyoto. It just makes Anderson Silva and GSP's dominance at their weight classes that much more impressive.

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If you're judged only as good as your last fight (and there is no better example for this cliche than MMA)' date=' then I'd say Machida looked pretty average. And by no means was it razor close. It was at worst a UD for Shogun on 3 rounds, and a 4-1 Shogun decisive point victory in my opinion.

 

Honestly, Machida is a talented bastard for sure. He's rejuvenated a dying art and showed why it was so prominent for hundreds of years. But this recent hype as of late really annoyed me because I think it's way too soon to prop this guy up so high. And a very simple gameplan (albeit effective) employed by Shogun was enough to ruin him clearly. Guaranteed Shogun victory at the rematch. He's pissed, and you're gonna see Belfort-esque hands to go with the same devastating kicks we saw in the first one. Shogun is back baby. Lookout.[/quote']

 

i dont think it is way too soon to prop this guy up anybody who beats rich franklin, bj penn, shogun, and rashad evans and never lost a fight? are you serious? machida is an awesome fighter i know you said that i just disagree that you said he is getting too much hype when he actually deserves it. he isnt a bisping! im not sure who can beat machida after shogun. but if id have to just throw it out there i dont see why brandon vera couldnt.

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Gegard Mousasi will beat Machida' date=' great Kickboxing and Judo. The longer the fight doesn't happen the better it is for Mousasi being 7 years younger than Lyoto. I don't see it happening for another 2-3 years and by that time i'd give the upper hand to Gegard[/quote']

 

You make a great point.

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I have my own opinions of Machida. That's what I've been explaining. I never bought into the hype. As stated' date=' I feel he's overhyped. And I've seen 3/4 of Machidas fights. I'm on here ragging on those who bought the Machida hype, and saw a "COMPARATIVELY" average Machida. With such a huge odds difference to boot, what Machida showed was poor at best. I couldn't be any clearer in my personal opinion of Machida, so I'm not sure how you are implying that my opinion is based on anything but my own perception.[/quote']

 

well you seem much more balanced in this post and less like a raging lunatic who is stalking shogun out of mad man love.... (main joking here.. smile!) so I'll post some more here.

 

Yes Machida's been over hyped. Putting him on P4P lists or saying he's the greatest ever to fight in the cage is stupid. It's to early. But that doesn't mean he isn't a very talented fighter. He is in fact very good and his timing is leaps and bounds ahead of MOST fighters. Not all.. but most. I think that is pretty hard to deny.

 

We did sorta see a comparatively average Machida.. but, imo, only compared to himself in previous fights. I think the hype got to him. He was forced to move his training camp to the family's country property rather then the gym just so he could get away from all the people. I think that goes a way to explaining why he looked less impressive this time around... and no I'm not taking anything away from shogun so don't go crazy yet.

 

The betting odds were retarded. And I have no idea how bookies could be that dumb to set 6:1 odds against Shogun. Someone was high when they made those odds. Shogun is no slouch and is a very good fighter (cept for the crap vs Coleman... but w/e everyone has an off day). And I'm sure any reasonably knowledgeable fan knew this would be a hard fight for Machida and a hard fight for Shogun.

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Razor thin??? Close??? What fight were you watching?

 

The four criteria for scoring an mma fight are Control of the fight area (Octagon Control)' date=' Effective Aggressiveness and Defense [b'](Aggression)[/b], effective striking and effective grappling....

 

There was no grappling in this fight.

 

Aggression and Octagon Control have to go to Shogun for three reasons

 

1) Shogun pursued Machida all five rounds, with Machida running away while trying to sneak pop-shots.

 

2) Shogun threw more shots while advancing and during exchanges every round...

 

3) Shogun landed more shots and more power shots every round....

 

With that said, I still gave Machida round 3.....but that was generous.....

 

In order for a judge to score that fight for Machida, he would have to do three things.

 

1) Not count leg kicks at all.

 

2) Not count the strikes thrown or landed throughout each round.

 

and

 

3) Not count Aggression or Octagon Control as a scoring criteria for the fight.

 

numbers don't lie

 

http://compustrike.com/stats_files/ufc_104/MacHida-Rua.HTM

 

http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

 

OK this I gotta respond to.

 

1. It was close. Most people are scoring the fight either 3-2 for machida or 3-2 for shogun. That is a close fight no matter how you look at it.

 

2. There WAS grappling. Takedowns are grappling and Shogun tried for a few, which he failed at.

 

3. Yes Shogun was the Agressor (got points for aggression or whatever) but he didn't get octogon control. Octogon control is not about sho is moving forward. It's about dictating your opponents placement in the octogon. It's about forcing the fight where you want it to be. I give it to Shogun in rounds 4 and 5. But not 1 2 3 . There are subtle differences. In the first 3 rounds Lyoto's movement was much better and he was following his usual gameplan of dance back and circle away. While Shogun was moving forward as the aggresor he wasnt' controling Lyoto's movement or his place in the octogon.

 

In rounds 4 and 5 he had Lyoto hurt enough that he wasn't able to dance back and circle as much and so Shogun had a much easier time to bullying him around and putting lyoto where he wanted him, of restricting his movement.

 

4. THE NUMBERS DO LIE!!!! You proved it yourself. You posted two links. Each link posted different numbers for the fight. If numbers don't lie, which one is right?

 

I think I need to add a signature that said Fightmetrics lies.

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Are you guys serious? Machida has a couple impressive knock-outs' date=' and he's the most devastating untouchable fighter in history. He has a questionable performance against another elite LHW and he's chopped liver. The fact is, he is very good, and so is Shogun. Nobody is unbeatable. Nobody ever will be unbeatable. Shogun could beat him in the next fight, but if he tries to push too hard, he could get caught and finished. Same is true with Lyoto. It just makes Anderson Silva and GSP's dominance at their weight classes that much more impressive.[/quote']

 

well said

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