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WHY the Dragon won..


Che_Guevara

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First let me say it was an amazing fight, so technical that both fighters were afraid to overly expose themselves in respect for the others ability.

 

I'm a long time fan of Shogun as well, and glad to see him in championship calibur once again.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/278606-lyoto-machida-did-more-than-you-think-he-did-vs-shogun

 

^^ A great article to put the fight into perspective. I've read all the blatently uncalled for critiscism of Lyoto from former band-waggoning fans, so it's only fair you Shogun fans read this.

 

Machida won. I wouldn't say he BEAT shogun, but he definatley didn't lose..

 

He didn't win because the fight was fixed, it wasn't because the judges didn't acknowledge Shoguns punishing kicks..

 

It's simply because Lyoto WAS checking the kicks with counter lefts or gut/ liver wrenching knees just about every round.

 

Counters- many of which were drowned out in the commentary or missed in the excitement of Shoguns wracking kicks..

 

 

Shoguns strategy was to get lytoto out of his gameplan by attacking his legs and body. But even in the 4th and 5th rounds Lyoto was still landing similiar strikes which I think is what Cecil Peoples meant by "Innefective agressiveness". Also he stuffed ALL of Shoguns take down attempts in essence ruining Shoguns gameplan.

 

Check out the highlights at the end of the first 3 rounds... WHOS highlights were they? THE DRAGONS..

rk0m6v.gif

rt.gif

ds.gif

 

Now I wouldn't go as far as Anderson and say he won ALL 5 rounds, however it's pretty easy to argue the first 4. He was cranking those lunging knees back REAL hard...

 

Just ONE of those leveled Tito, Just ONE of those leveled Thiago...

 

Either way I think the rematch is a real healthy thing for the sport. Contreversey creates interest in a rematch casual fans might not usualy have been interested in seeing..

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I welcome all intelligent arguments. I don't see why Machida fans and Shogun fans have been at each others throats, downplaying and ridiculing each fighter.

 

When in reality this fight was historic. It will be looked back upon with different eyes.

 

Both fighters don't need to exchange in sloppy exchanges like you see in many average bouts or at you're local casino..

 

Fighters this great, choose their moments to strike, and thats what made it such a nerve recking fight.

 

At any time Shogun could've came with that overhand that knocked out Chuck and leveled Machida, while at the same time Lyoto could of countered and that'd be all she wrote...

 

=/

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Thanks bro.

 

I think this gives the LHW division plenty of time to adjust and usher in a new contender while setting up endless possibilities..

 

With Rashad and Thiago both having lost to the dragon, Forest being the only one to definitively beat Shogun..

 

You know Rampage would like a rematch with Shogun or his original match with Rashad, hell even a rematch with Forest..

 

Tito probably wants at Machida..

 

Forest has a win over Rampage...

 

Randy Cotoure CAN and will try to outwork anyone he fights, he's ALWAYS a threat and a style like his could possibly smother both Lyoto and Shogun.

 

It's interesting man....

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Shogun won. Those few knees that Machida threw were the only things he did good in that fight. Machida threw a lot of counter punches but almost all of them were blocked or were very weak. It didnt even phase Shogun. The most damaging strikes in the whole fight were Shoguns kicks and a few sucesufful strikes he hit Machida with. Even in that flurry that Machida threw the most damaging strike was Shoguns right hook to Machidas face. You could even see it on Machida when he fell forward.

Shogun was agressor the whole fight, he dictated the pace and he had Machida constantly backing up. Whever Machida decided to attack, Shogun immediatly countered. Shogun was also better in the clinch. Even those knees to the Machidas legs very pretty hard. Shogun won at least four rounds. Some were close but when you see someone dominating the second half of the fight common sense tells you that close rounds should be scored in the favour of the guy who is more dominating in the end.

Plus Shogun looked to finish the fight often but Macida was just backing out of action. There is a thin line between allusivnes and running away.

Great technical battle that deserves the rematch but that doesnt change the fact Shogun was robbed and that he is the LHW champion.

At the very least they could rule this a draw and strip Machida of the title. And let the rematch decide the champion beacuse Machida clearly isnt anymore. Even this last option would be generous to Machida though.

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I welcome all intelligent arguments. I don't see why Machida fans and Shogun fans have been at each others throats' date=' downplaying and ridiculing each fighter.

 

When in reality this fight was historic. It will be looked back upon with different eyes.

 

Both fighters don't need to exchange in sloppy exchanges like you see in many average bouts or at you're local casino..

 

Fighters this great, choose their moments to strike, and thats what made it such a nerve recking fight.

 

At any time Shogun could've came with that overhand that knocked out Chuck and leveled Machida, while at the same time Lyoto could of countered and that'd be all she wrote...

 

=/[/quote']

 

Agreed it was very good fight against two great fighters. I have nothing against both fighters but lets face it Lyoto lost and there is no shame in that

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Well first, Forrest has to fight Ortiz, and Machida has already beaten Ortiz.

 

Machida beat Rashad who beat Forrest...

 

I think that whoever wins in the Couture-Vera bout has a great chance against Machida. Couture displays great cardio and toughness and some of the best wrestling in the entire UFC, if he gets full mount over Machida its all over (but thats a big IF). Vera is similar to Shogun in his Muay Thai and lighter on his feet, but hes also different too, I think Vera is more unpredictable, and thats an edge over any fighter.

 

Id also like to see Belfort vs Machida. Both display great quickness, it will just be a matter of who catches who clean on chin first.

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Shogun won. Those few knees that Machida threw were the only things he did good in that fight. Machida threw a lot of counter punches but almost all of them were blocked or were very weak. It didnt even phase Shogun. The most damaging strikes in the whole fight were Shoguns kicks and a few sucesufful strikes he hit Machida with. Even in that flurry that Machida threw the most damaging strike was Shoguns right hook to Machidas face. You could even see it on Machida when he fell forward.

Shogun was agressor the whole fight' date=' he dictated the pace and he had Machida constantly backing up. Whever Machida decided to attack, Shogun immediatly countered. Shogun was also better in the clinch. Even those knees to the Machidas legs very pretty hard. Shogun won at least four rounds. Some were close but when you see someone dominating the second half of the fight common sense tells you that close rounds should be scored in the favour of the guy who is more dominating in the end.

Plus Shogun looked to finish the fight often but Macida was just backing out of action. There is a thin line between allusivnes and running away.

Great technical battle that deserves the rematch but that doesnt change the fact Shogun was robbed and that he is the LHW champion.

At the very least they could rule this a draw and strip Machida of the title. And let the rematch decide the champion beacuse Machida clearly isnt anymore. Even this last option would be generous to Machida though.[/quote']

 

I think many of Machidas punches DID hurt Shogun. He's a very precise striker, and a few of them landed plush like in the picture at the top of the thread..

 

There were 2-3 times in the fight were shogun was forced to take a step back from a counter, indicating he got hurt. So it's hard to argue.

 

Shogun in the post fight interview also has a rather large welt/bruise on his forehead and a mouse on his eye.

 

Alot of people were measuring damage by machidas face, which isn't realy reflective. If someone gets knocked out, like say Rashad when they come to, often times they can show less damage than say someone who took a heavy beating but didn't fall only bled.

 

Plus chins don't bruise ;)

 

Southpaw Straight left down the middle FOR THE WIN.

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At the very least they could rule this a draw and strip Machida of the title.

 

Ugh... More of this "Shogun won any way you slice the cake" crap. How can you say that Shogun landed the most devastating strikes, and then mention how he stunned Machida off the cage but then not acknowledge the few strikes from the clips in the post above you where Shogun had to attempt a shot on Machida because he was slightly hurt!? It's unbelievable how Shogun fans refuse to look at the fight the way it actually happened but instead insist that their man won "hands down" etc.

 

The fight was very close. At the end of it I actually had it 48-47 Shogun. BUT, I was not surprised at all it went to Machida. The second round was very close as was the 5th depending on how you looked at it. I think too many people are looking at how fresh Shogun looked at the end of the fight compared to how dejected Machida looked and judging everything off that. If you look at the fight round by round you'll see it's a very close fight. Either man could have won.

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Shogun won. Those few knees that Machida threw were the only things he did good in that fight. Machida threw a lot of counter punches but almost all of them were blocked or were very weak. It didnt even phase Shogun. The most damaging strikes in the whole fight were Shoguns kicks and a few sucesufful strikes he hit Machida with. Even in that flurry that Machida threw the most damaging strike was Shoguns right hook to Machidas face. You could even see it on Machida when he fell forward.

Shogun was agressor the whole fight' date=' he dictated the pace and he had Machida constantly backing up. Whever Machida decided to attack, Shogun immediatly countered. Shogun was also better in the clinch. Even those knees to the Machidas legs very pretty hard. Shogun won at least four rounds. Some were close but when you see someone dominating the second half of the fight common sense tells you that close rounds should be scored in the favour of the guy who is more dominating in the end.

Plus Shogun looked to finish the fight often but Macida was just backing out of action. [b']There is a thin line between allusivnes and running away.[/b]Great technical battle that deserves the rematch but that doesnt change the fact Shogun was robbed and that he is the LHW champion.

At the very least they could rule this a draw and strip Machida of the title. And let the rematch decide the champion beacuse Machida clearly isnt anymore. Even this last option would be generous to Machida though.

 

Don't call it running away. Running away means to turn around and run away from your opponent with your back facing him and him chasing your back. While it may not be pure elusiveness either, Lyoto always faced Shogun everytime he repositioned himself, almost like a luring manner in which to frustrate Shoguns aggressive kicks and hence counter on.

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Agreed it was very good fight against two great fighters. I have nothing against both fighters but lets face it Lyoto lost and there is no shame in that

 

Machida lost?

I thought he is in Balem with the title as i type.

 

 

Oh, he is.

Because he beat Shogun.

Get over it and stop being a cry baby

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Also, I think Machida would handle Couture quite easily. We've already seen that Couture has major problems against top level strikers who are good at takedown defense and love to counter strike (Lidell whooped him twice). Vera, man this guy is way too inconsistent to be a threat to much of anyone in the top 5 right now. Remember, he pretty much only looks good against bums, and whenever he gets in there with someone of some talent he looks very average. We'll see how he handles Couture.

 

As far as Belfort. I don't know how big he gets between fights, but Machida might just be too big for him. Also remember he's only had one fight back. It was very impressive, but one good fight does not a top LHW contender make. I'm guessing Silva puts him on his back with little tweety birds floating around his head 3 mins in to the first round.

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Machida won. I wouldn't say he BEAT shogun' date=' but he definatley didn't lose..

 

He didn't win because the fight was fixed, it wasn't because the judges didn't acknowledge Shoguns punishing kicks..

 

It's simply because Lyoto WAS checking the kicks with counter lefts or gut/ liver wrenching knees just about every round.

 

Counters- many of which were drowned out in the commentary or missed in the excitement of Shoguns wracking kicks..

 

 

Shoguns strategy was to get lytoto out of his gameplan by attacking his legs and body. But even in the 4th and 5th rounds Lyoto was still landing similiar strikes which I think is what Cecil Peoples meant by "Innefective agressiveness". Also he stuffed ALL of Shoguns take down attempts in essence ruining Shoguns gameplan.

 

Check out the highlights at the end of the first 3 rounds... WHOS highlights were they? THE DRAGONS..

[img']http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j48/Biom3/rt.gif[/img]

ds.gif

rk0m6v.gif

 

Now I wouldn't go as far as Anderson and say he won ALL 5 rounds, however it's pretty easy to argue the first 4. He was cranking those lunging knees back REAL hard...

 

Just ONE of those leveled Tito, Just ONE of those leveled Thiago...

 

Either way I think the rematch is a real healthy thing for the sport. Contreversey creates interest in a rematch casual fans might not usualy have been interested in seeing..

 

It's also pretty easy to argue Shogun won rounds 1, 2, 4, 5. There is no argument Machida won round 4, it was Shoguns best round. Now I'm no judge nor an expert but as a fan I had it 49-46 Shogun. Even when he said 48-47 I thought fair enough you could give Machida round 2, and when they said unanimous decision I thought it was definitely Shogun's, as surely not all 3 of them could have given it against the rightful champ? I think if it was a split decision then there wouldn't be so much uproar, as at least one of the judges saw the right fight, however seeing as all 3 judges gave the questionable call to Machida there is alot more anger. 90% of the people watching think Shogun won that fight, however the 3 people who's opinions count were in the minority so there is alot of backlash.

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Don't EVER count Randy Cotoure out. He is a beast.

 

Look at what he did to Ganzaga..

 

He may seem unimpressive as of late, but he's easily the only one who even put up a match against Brock Lesnar..

 

and Noguira is a legend in the sport. It was not in his best interest to grapple with him..

 

I could see Cotoure landing alot of dirty elbows and uppercuts on both Lyoto and Shogun.

 

Sometimes the man is overwhelming, and Randy even believes he's the best fighter he's ever been so it's tough to say.

 

Let Randy defeat vera before we start match making him..

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I just think that if there's any one type of fighter that is Couture's weakness it's the fist-striking counter puncher who sits back and picks his moments and refuses to be taken down. We've seen Randy get eaten up by these fighters before. Lyoto is percisely that fighter. I'm not saying Randy CAN'T compete, I just think stylistically it plays directly to his one weakness.

 

I don't think Randy would be able to clinch very well against Lyoto. Lyoto is really good at staying away from people, and his foot sweeps are unbelievable. BTW, where were those against Shogun? He didn't even try one. I was expecting a bunch of footsweeps.

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It's also pretty easy to argue Shogun won rounds 1' date=' 2, 4, 5. There is no argument Machida won round 4, it was Shoguns best round.[/quote']

 

The first four were pretty close rounds, and ultimately I think the stuffed takedowns was the only other criteria to split these rounds.

 

Lyoto was landing his power punch and flying body knee on Shogun EVERY round..

 

It's hard to argue man. But Cecil Peoples explained his reasoning for judging things the way he did and the other 2 judges seemed to agree with him..

 

**** what the fans say. These are the very same fans that just a fight ago boo'd Andreson Silva for a "lackluster" performance.

 

The same drunk fans who usualy can't appreciate any sort of grappling or ground game whatsoever.

 

The same fans who called machida boring and unable to finish a fight.

 

The same fans who said Shogun was past his prime and only beat old men...

 

Fans are Fickle.

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Honestly, Couture, Liddell, Griffin and Franklin are done, Che Guevara.

 

Couture will try no to be smashed at 205lbs. Like a heavyweight it's over.

 

Liddell performed well dancing with the stars. He is a cool guy and will certainly work at UFC anyway. He doesn't have any chance for title but can put on the last show in 2010.

 

Griffin never ripped me off. He is overrated and got the title thanks to UFC judges. He didn't deserve that win over Rampagem at all.

 

Franklin the same as The Iceman. He will accomplish his contract with some more good fights but won't get anywhere.

 

I respect all of them for their past but don't see them on the top like on the other times.

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I just think that if there's any one type of fighter that is Couture's weakness it's the fist-striking counter puncher who sits back and picks his moments and refuses to be taken down. We've seen Randy get eaten up by these fighters before. Lyoto is percisely that fighter. I'm not saying Randy CAN'T compete' date=' I just think stylistically it plays directly to his one weakness.

 

I don't think Randy would be able to clinch very well against Lyoto. Lyoto is really good at staying away from people, and his foot sweeps are unbelievable. BTW, where were those against Shogun? He didn't even try one. I was expecting a bunch of footsweeps.[/quote']

 

Yeah I definatley see what you mean. Speaking on that- Lyoto's take down defense percentage has to be up the roof!! lol

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Honestly' date=' Couture, Liddell, Griffin and Franklin are done, Che Guevara.

 

Couture will try no to be smashed at 205lbs. Like a heavyweight it's over.

 

Liddell performed well dancing with the stars. He is a cool guy and will certainly work at UFC anyway. He doesn't have any chance for title but can put on the last show in 2010.

 

Griffin never ripped me off. He is overrated and got the title thanks to UFC judges. He didn't deserve that win over Rampagem at all.

 

Franklin the same as The Iceman. He will accomplish his contract with some more good fights but won't get anywhere.

 

I respect all of them for their past but don't see them on the top like on the other times.[/quote']

 

I can see what you mean, I wouldn't say neccasarily "overrated", but in the face of fighters like Anderson Silva many of these guys just get outclassed..

 

There are such well rounded fighters these days, and I think in the decade to come were only going to see fighters evolve into far more well rounded fighters training in BJJ, Taekwondo, Karate, Kickboxing, Judo, just about everything...

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Well yeah you got arguably the best leap-in leap-out counter attacker in Machida vs arguably the best wrestler in at least the LHW division in Couture. Machida doesnt even have to change his style to nullify Randys take downs, because if he cant get to him he is forced to strike. Furthermore, Randys main tools in striking is his boxing, and hes facing the kick-punch combinations from Machida, so Machida has the edge there.

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At the very least they could rule this a draw and strip Machida of the title.

 

Ugh... More of this "Shogun won any way you slice the cake" crap. How can you say that Shogun landed the most devastating strikes' date=' and then mention how he stunned Machida off the cage but then not acknowledge the few strikes from the clips in the post above you where Shogun had to attempt a shot on Machida because he was slightly hurt!? It's unbelievable how Shogun fans refuse to look at the fight the way it actually happened but instead insist that their man won "hands down" etc.

 

The fight was very close. At the end of it I actually had it 48-47 Shogun. BUT, I was not surprised at all it went to Machida. The second round was very close as was the 5th depending on how you looked at it. I think too many people are looking at how fresh Shogun looked at the end of the fight compared to how dejected Machida looked and judging everything off that. If you look at the fight round by round you'll see it's a very close fight. Either man could have won.[/quote']

 

Shogun won and its not fan crap its just the way it happened. I am sick of Machida fans who are trying to convince us that Shogun wasnt robbed. If the roles would be reversed you would be saying that Machida never lost a round and you know it. Bottom line Machida was beaten in the end and Shogun wasnt and that is ALL that matters in the fight.

No one will convince me that when the fight ended he thought that Machida was the winner. Everyvone thought that Shogun won even Machida.

You know when you start looking fight too closely and you already know the result you are bound to find something that you think favours your fighter.

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Stop looking yourself in the mirror and rather post something smart. Machida has a paper title

 

A paper title and 200,000 dolars. It seems you look at the same mirror.

 

This is not passion, this is fight. It's no use to analyse with fanatism. Machida won three rounds. I am a huge fan of Shogun but instead of listening to his corner - that said he was winning - he had to face Machida and make the necessary points to beat him without doubt.

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double_ouch_feature.jpg

First let me say it was an amazing fight' date=' so technical that both fighters were afraid to overly expose themselves in respect for the others ability.

 

I'm a long time fan of Shogun as well, and glad to see him in championship calibur once again.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/278606-lyoto-machida-did-more-than-you-think-he-did-vs-shogun

 

^^ A great article to put the fight into perspective. I've read all the blatently uncalled for critiscism of Lyoto from former band-waggoning fans, so it's only fair you Shogun fans read this.

 

Machida won. I wouldn't say he BEAT shogun, but he definatley didn't lose..

 

He didn't win because the fight was fixed, it wasn't because the judges didn't acknowledge Shoguns punishing kicks..

 

It's simply because Lyoto WAS checking the kicks with counter lefts or gut/ liver wrenching knees just about every round.

 

Counters- many of which were drowned out in the commentary or missed in the excitement of Shoguns wracking kicks..

 

 

Shoguns strategy was to get lytoto out of his gameplan by attacking his legs and body. But even in the 4th and 5th rounds Lyoto was still landing similiar strikes which I think is what Cecil Peoples meant by "Innefective agressiveness". Also he stuffed ALL of Shoguns take down attempts in essence ruining Shoguns gameplan.

 

Check out the highlights at the end of the first 3 rounds... WHOS highlights were they? THE DRAGONS..

[img']http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j48/Biom3/rt.gif[/img]

ds.gif

rk0m6v.gif

 

Now I wouldn't go as far as Anderson and say he won ALL 5 rounds, however it's pretty easy to argue the first 4. He was cranking those lunging knees back REAL hard...

 

Just ONE of those leveled Tito, Just ONE of those leveled Thiago...

 

Either way I think the rematch is a real healthy thing for the sport. Contreversey creates interest in a rematch casual fans might not usualy have been interested in seeing..

 

I Belive machida won ,round 3 maybe , but to say round 4 you are out of your mind ,he landed two strikes only in round 4 hahahahahhha

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Don't call it running away. Running away means to turn around and run away from your opponent with your back facing him and him chasing your back. While it may not be pure elusiveness either' date=' Lyoto always faced Shogun everytime he repositioned himself, almost like a luring manner in which to frustrate Shoguns aggressive kicks and hence counter on.[/quote']

 

Ok I will correct myself. I will call it avoiding the action. While I love Machidas style and his allusivnes that wasnt it. He was just backing up. It wasnt luring manner you are saying what you want to bealive. Shogun took him out of his own game and Machida didnt know what to do and he was retreating most of the fight.

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Shogun won and its not fan crap its just the way it happened. I am sick of Machida fans who are trying to convince us that Shogun wasnt robbed. If the roles would be reversed you would be saying that Machida never lost a round and you know it. Bottom line Machida was beaten in the end and Shogun wasnt and that is ALL that matters in the fight.

No one will convince me that when the fight ended he thought that Machida was the winner. Everyvone thought that Shogun won even Machida.

You know when you start looking fight too closely and you already know the result you are bound to find something that you think favours your fighter.

 

At first i thought Rua was robbed until i went back a couple days later and watched the replay.

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A paper title and 200' date='000 dolars. It seems you look at the same mirror.

 

This is not passion, this is fight. It's no use to analyse with fanatism. Machida won three rounds. I am a huge fan of Shogun but instead of listening to his corner - that said he was winning - he had to face Machida and make the necessary points to beat him without doubt.[/quote']

 

I dont think thats the truth. You are huge Machida fan. Oh I guess know we who think Shogun won are fanatics. LOL cmon give me a break everyvone knows what kind of robbery happened october 24th

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I understand when you say Machida was walking back but he also attacked as you can see in the gifs, and he took advantage when they got closer to each other. Not all Shogun's kicks damaged Lyoto's leg but it was a path to avoid his moves in the octagon, the beginning of the puzzle solution.

 

Some guys want to measure the intensity of the his or something else. Refs did a good job. The fight was close and the unique mistake was given Machida the unanimous decision. That was split.

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Ok I will correct myself. I will call it avoiding the action. While I love Machidas style and his allusivnes that wasnt it. He was just backing up. It wasnt luring manner you are saying what you want to bealive. Shogun took him out of his own game and Machida didnt know what to do and he was retreating most of the fight.

 

Well Machida had 2 options. 1 - stay stationary and get hammered in the legs by Shoguns Thai kicks, or 2 - back up, reposition and pick your spots which is exactly what he did. Theres only so many kicks a mans legs can take. Everytime Shogun threw a leg kick he would open a small window for Machida in exposing his head because he has to swing one of his hands down to get full power in his hips for the kick, and its that moment where Machida would counter with punches to his head. You can even see as the fight goes on Shogun gets hit like this and then after every leg kick he would immediately cover up his head cos he knows its coming.

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What is completely astonishing is that Joe Rogan?s commentary, which I used to enjoy, was the key bias that swayed the crowd away from the judges decision. Rogan is a commentator of what happens, NOT the judge of who won. Rogan overstepped his bounds, and did a huge disservice to Lyoto?s camp and all the fans listening.

For those on the internet, Joe Rogan on TV, and so many others that said ?EVERYONE? thought Rua won, all of us who are reasonable men, quiet in our convictions, and not bully-ego-boys who believe that our opinions are more important than those judging these very technical fights, we reasonable men are in the majority and we respect the sport and the moment to accept the judges UNANIMOUS decision: Lyoto was clearly the winner of that fight.

Real martial artists bow upon entering and leaving the octagon, bowing to those deciding, affording respect where respect is due.

It would be nice that all the Rua won! fans, would enter the discussion respectfully and know that the next bout neither fighter will leave any doubt as to who won.

My congratulations to Rua, who fought a great fight. Plus Rua?s handling of the matter deserves a bow of respect. However, it was his own corner that gave him false confidence that he was winning, that caused Rua?s own demise. I heard them doing it during the fight and knew that was the wrong message for Rua, at that point, as it might and probably would lead him to a sure defeat.

For all the unheard masses who believe what they saw and respect the judges? UNANIMOUS decision, I speak for you here that even though we are not disrespectfully vocal, we know in our hearts that Lyoto Machida won the fight, and he and his family are a very pleasant surprise for their composure during this trial.

In thanks for taking this lesson, Lyoto and family, and completing the task of beating Rua, in the very near future.

This followed by Dana White?s judgement of who won the fight, totally undermining both Lyoto?s camp and the judges? clearly accurate decision.

Then we have Fightmetrics exposed for it?s own inaccurate system as most of us saw so many strikes that biased Fightmetrics did not see, for some odd reason.

I think Judge Cecil People said it best in his analysis:

The main-event of UFC 104 saw Lyoto Machida defend his Light heavyweight title by winning a unanimous decision over Shogun Rua but not without controversy as many spectators felt the scorecards reflected poorly upon the fight. Long time MMA judge and referee, Cecil Peoples provided us with his reasoning behind his issued score of 48-47 in favour of the champion, Lyoto Machida.

?First of all what you need to understand is that from where the judges are sitting, we get to see things that the fans at home may miss. Mauricio Rua was being aggressive but it wasn?t effective aggressiveness which is what we as the judges look for when scoring a fight. The way I saw it, Lyoto was landing the more cleaner and damaging strikes throughout the fight ? if you take a look at the judging criteria clean strikes are valued more-so than the quantity of strikes landed. Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyoto?s diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida. You have to keep in mind we always the favour the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don?t do that.?

?When both fighters are engaged in a striking match what I always look for is the fighter who is being judicious, picking his spots, being accurate and landing the cleaner strikes which ultimately is what Lyoto did more effectively than Rua. Lyoto made Shogun come after him, he determined where the fight took place which in my opinion constitutes as effective Octagon control. I recognize the fact that Rua did have a few takedown attempts during the course of the fight however Lyoto defended them all successfully which counts as effective grappling in his favour, where as ununsuccessful takedown attempts are not scored at all. Therefore going by that criteria, I believe Lyoto won the fight clearly. I?m just glad the other judges on the panel saw it the same way and I?m sure the fans who understand the technicalities of the sport agree with the decision too.?

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I think many of Machidas punches DID hurt Shogun. He's a very precise striker' date=' and a few of them landed plush like in the picture at the top of the thread..

 

There were 2-3 times in the fight were shogun was forced to take a step back from a counter, indicating he got hurt. So it's hard to argue.

 

Shogun in the post fight interview also has a rather large welt/bruise on his forehead and a mouse on his eye.

 

Alot of people were measuring damage by machidas face, which isn't realy reflective. If someone gets knocked out, like say Rashad when they come to, often times they can show less damage than say someone who took a heavy beating but didn't fall only bled.

 

Plus chins don't bruise ;)

 

Southpaw Straight left down the middle FOR THE WIN.[/quote']

 

You know those knees by Machida... it honestly looks to me like Shogun is telegraphing them... like he knows he is going to throw them... and then attempting to take him down. Because lets face it... its harder to avoid a takedown on one leg lol. And Machida throws those knees alot... so i honestly thought Shogun did his homework on Machida, and was taking abit of impact from the knees in order to get a takedown... However he didnt get the take downs haha, but you know what i mean. He saw the knees coming... but like purposely dropped into them to try get the takedown. Thats what it appeared like to me.....

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What is completely astonishing is that Joe Rogan’s commentary' date=' which I used to enjoy, was the key bias that swayed the crowd away from the judges decision. Rogan is a commentator of what happens, NOT the judge of who won. Rogan overstepped his bounds, and did a huge disservice to Lyoto’s camp and all the fans listening.

For those on the internet, Joe Rogan on TV, and so many others that said “EVERYONE” thought Rua won, all of us who are reasonable men, quiet in our convictions, and not bully-ego-boys who believe that our opinions are more important than those judging these very technical fights, we reasonable men are in the majority and we respect the sport and the moment to accept the judges UNANIMOUS decision: Lyoto was clearly the winner of that fight.

Real martial artists bow upon entering and leaving the octagon, bowing to those deciding, affording respect where respect is due.

It would be nice that all the Rua won! fans, would enter the discussion respectfully and know that the next bout neither fighter will leave any doubt as to who won.

My congratulations to Rua, who fought a great fight. Plus Rua’s handling of the matter deserves a bow of respect. However, it was his own corner that gave him false confidence that he was winning, that caused Rua’s own demise. I heard them doing it during the fight and knew that was the wrong message for Rua, at that point, as it might and probably would lead him to a sure defeat.

For all the unheard masses who believe what they saw and respect the judges’ UNANIMOUS decision, I speak for you here that even though we are not disrespectfully vocal, we know in our hearts that Lyoto Machida won the fight, and he and his family are a very pleasant surprise for their composure during this trial.

In thanks for taking this lesson, Lyoto and family, and completing the task of beating Rua, in the very near future.

This followed by Dana White’s judgement of who won the fight, totally undermining both Lyoto’s camp and the judges’ clearly accurate decision.

Then we have Fightmetrics exposed for it’s own inaccurate system as most of us saw so many strikes that biased Fightmetrics did not see, for some odd reason.

I think Judge Cecil People said it best in his analysis:

The main-event of UFC 104 saw Lyoto Machida defend his Light heavyweight title by winning a unanimous decision over Shogun Rua but not without controversy as many spectators felt the scorecards reflected poorly upon the fight. Long time MMA judge and referee, Cecil Peoples provided us with his reasoning behind his issued score of 48-47 in favour of the champion, Lyoto Machida.

“First of all what you need to understand is that from where the judges are sitting, we get to see things that the fans at home may miss. Mauricio Rua was being aggressive but it wasn’t effective aggressiveness which is what we as the judges look for when scoring a fight. The way I saw it, Lyoto was landing the more cleaner and damaging strikes throughout the fight – if you take a look at the judging criteria clean strikes are valued more-so than the quantity of strikes landed. Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyoto’s diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida. You have to keep in mind we always the favour the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don’t do that.”

“When both fighters are engaged in a striking match what I always look for is the fighter who is being judicious, picking his spots, being accurate and landing the cleaner strikes which ultimately is what Lyoto did more effectively than Rua. Lyoto made Shogun come after him, he determined where the fight took place which in my opinion constitutes as effective Octagon control. I recognize the fact that Rua did have a few takedown attempts during the course of the fight however Lyoto defended them all successfully which counts as effective grappling in his favour, where as ununsuccessful takedown attempts are not scored at all. Therefore going by that criteria, I believe Lyoto won the fight clearly. I’m just glad the other judges on the panel saw it the same way and I’m sure the fans who understand the technicalities of the sport agree with the decision too.”[/quote']

 

Ok... i would understand if there was closer to a 50:50 split in who thought Machida won and who thought Shogun won. The fact that there is such a sheer amount of people that thought Shogun won, makes your argument that Rogan swayed the 'crowd' into thinking Shogun won, completely invalid. EVERY single site that has reviewed the fight has said Shogun WON. Nearly every fighter, apart from TWO, has said Shogun was robbed. Nearly every site has called the fight one of the worst decisions in history. The fact is, so many people who thought Shogun was going to get destroyed by Machida, think that Shogun won. Look... id understand if it was a closer split. But noway can Rogans commentary 'brainwash' EVERYONE into thinking Shogun won haha. You have to be extremely stupid to believe that. Either that or your just trying to make excuses. The sheer amount of people that are saying Shogun was robbed, is just far to large to support your argument that Rogan influenced everyone into thinking that haha. I have never once been influenced by someones commentary in the 11 years i have watched fight events haha. And i doubt many others are.... i watch the fight and decide for myself. And also... you do realise the CROWD that were there at 104, cant actually HEAR Rogan lol.

 

Sorry, but your post makes you sound pretty silly, if you think Rogan can brainwash people into thinking things. Maybe a few people... not all the professional fighters... and all the media aswell, and all the dedicated.. independent MMA sites. Just noway man... Noway at all.

 

By the way, Cecil Peoples scored the Thales Leites vs A. Silva fight 48-47... Thats all i need to tell you about that guy lol. He is a complete joke.

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Remember also that the people that booed in the stands in LA didnt have to listen to Rogen, they just saw the fight how it was. Rogen HIGHLIGHTED things Shogun did ALOT more than things Machida did for viewers watching and listening on TV. Whether that persuades you of a winner is entirely up to the TV viewer alone, but the only peoples voice you're listening to on TV while watching are the commentators, and if all they are doing is saying how great Shoguns leg kicks are and highlighting his every move then you are more likely to focus more on Shogun and possibly turn a blind eye to Machida.

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Ok... i would understand if there was closer to a 50:50 split in who thought Machida won and who thought Shogun won. The fact that there is such a sheer amount of people that thought Shogun won' date=' makes your argument that Rogan swayed the 'crowd' into thinking Shogun won, completely invalid. EVERY single site that has reviewed the fight has said Shogun WON. Nearly every fighter, apart from TWO, has said Shogun was robbed. Nearly every site has called the fight one of the worst decisions in history. The fact is, so many people who thought Shogun was going to get destroyed by Machida, think that Shogun won. Look... id understand if it was a closer split. But noway can Rogans commentary 'brainwash' EVERYONE into thinking Shogun won haha. You have to be extremely stupid to believe that. Either that or your just trying to make excuses. The sheer amount of people that are saying Shogun was robbed, is just far to large to support your argument that Rogan influenced everyone into thinking that haha. I have never once been influenced by someones commentary in the 11 years i have watched fight events haha. And i doubt many others are.... i watch the fight and decide for myself. And also... you do realise the CROWD that were there at 104, cant actually HEAR Rogan lol.

 

Sorry, but your post makes you sound pretty silly, if you think Rogan can brainwash people into thinking things. Maybe a few people... not all the professional fighters... and all the media aswell, and all the dedicated.. independent MMA sites. Just noway man... Noway at all.

 

By the way, Cecil Peoples scored the Thales Leites vs A. Silva fight 48-47... Thats all i need to tell you about that guy lol. He is a complete joke.[/quote']

 

Most people judged the fight after seeing it only once like the fighters backstage the crowd etc. I also did think Shogun won the fight the first time i watched but on seeing it a second time Machida did win the fight, many others have changed their oppinion also after watching it again. Joe Rogan did sway alot of people into thinking Shogun was winning, also add in the way Machida was not fighting in his usuall dominating way and ofc that is going to cloud peoples judgements.

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double_ouch_feature.jpg

First let me say it was an amazing fight' date=' so technical that both fighters were afraid to overly expose themselves in respect for the others ability.

 

I'm a long time fan of Shogun as well, and glad to see him in championship calibur once again.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/278606-lyoto-machida-did-more-than-you-think-he-did-vs-shogun

 

^^ A great article to put the fight into perspective. I've read all the blatently uncalled for critiscism of Lyoto from former band-waggoning fans, so it's only fair you Shogun fans read this.

 

Machida won. I wouldn't say he BEAT shogun, but he definatley didn't lose..

 

He didn't win because the fight was fixed, it wasn't because the judges didn't acknowledge Shoguns punishing kicks..

 

It's simply because Lyoto WAS checking the kicks with counter lefts or gut/ liver wrenching knees just about every round.

 

Counters- many of which were drowned out in the commentary or missed in the excitement of Shoguns wracking kicks..

 

 

Shoguns strategy was to get lytoto out of his gameplan by attacking his legs and body. But even in the 4th and 5th rounds Lyoto was still landing similiar strikes which I think is what Cecil Peoples meant by "Innefective agressiveness". Also he stuffed ALL of Shoguns take down attempts in essence ruining Shoguns gameplan.

 

Check out the highlights at the end of the first 3 rounds... WHOS highlights were they? THE DRAGONS..

[img']http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j48/Biom3/rt.gif[/img]

ds.gif

rk0m6v.gif

 

Now I wouldn't go as far as Anderson and say he won ALL 5 rounds, however it's pretty easy to argue the first 4. He was cranking those lunging knees back REAL hard...

 

Just ONE of those leveled Tito, Just ONE of those leveled Thiago...

 

Either way I think the rematch is a real healthy thing for the sport. Contreversey creates interest in a rematch casual fans might not usualy have been interested in seeing..

 

You are just like Machida. refusing to take a stand, he could'n even aswer the question when asked if he thought he wonthe fight his answer , the 3 refs scored the fight not me, If that is not lack of confidence i don't know what is.

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Ok... i would understand if there was closer to a 50:50 split in who thought Machida won and who thought Shogun won. The fact that there is such a sheer amount of people that thought Shogun won' date=' makes your argument that Rogan swayed the 'crowd' into thinking Shogun won, completely invalid. EVERY single site that has reviewed the fight has said Shogun WON. Nearly every fighter, apart from TWO, has said Shogun was robbed. Nearly every site has called the fight one of the worst decisions in history. The fact is, so many people who thought Shogun was going to get destroyed by Machida, think that Shogun won. Look... id understand if it was a closer split. But noway can Rogans commentary 'brainwash' EVERYONE into thinking Shogun won haha. You have to be extremely stupid to believe that. Either that or your just trying to make excuses. The sheer amount of people that are saying Shogun was robbed, is just far to large to support your argument that Rogan influenced everyone into thinking that haha. I have never once been influenced by someones commentary in the 11 years i have watched fight events haha. And i doubt many others are.... i watch the fight and decide for myself. And also... you do realise the CROWD that were there at 104, cant actually HEAR Rogan lol.

 

Sorry, but your post makes you sound pretty silly, if you think Rogan can brainwash people into thinking things. Maybe a few people... not all the professional fighters... and all the media aswell, and all the dedicated.. independent MMA sites. Just noway man... Noway at all.

 

By the way, Cecil Peoples scored the Thales Leites vs A. Silva fight 48-47... Thats all i need to tell you about that guy lol. He is a complete joke.[/quote']

 

Finaly an objective post. People just cant bealive that their hero lost.

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double_ouch_feature.jpg

First let me say it was an amazing fight' date=' so technical that both fighters were afraid to overly expose themselves in respect for the others ability.

 

I'm a long time fan of Shogun as well, and glad to see him in championship calibur once again.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/278606-lyoto-machida-did-more-than-you-think-he-did-vs-shogun

 

^^ A great article to put the fight into perspective. I've read all the blatently uncalled for critiscism of Lyoto from former band-waggoning fans, so it's only fair you Shogun fans read this.

 

Machida won. I wouldn't say he BEAT shogun, but he definatley didn't lose..

 

He didn't win because the fight was fixed, it wasn't because the judges didn't acknowledge Shoguns punishing kicks..

 

It's simply because Lyoto WAS checking the kicks with counter lefts or gut/ liver wrenching knees just about every round.

 

Counters- many of which were drowned out in the commentary or missed in the excitement of Shoguns wracking kicks..

 

 

Shoguns strategy was to get lytoto out of his gameplan by attacking his legs and body. But even in the 4th and 5th rounds Lyoto was still landing similiar strikes which I think is what Cecil Peoples meant by "Innefective agressiveness". Also he stuffed ALL of Shoguns take down attempts in essence ruining Shoguns gameplan.

 

Check out the highlights at the end of the first 3 rounds... WHOS highlights were they? THE DRAGONS..

[img']http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j48/Biom3/rt.gif[/img]

ds.gif

rk0m6v.gif

 

Now I wouldn't go as far as Anderson and say he won ALL 5 rounds, however it's pretty easy to argue the first 4. He was cranking those lunging knees back REAL hard...

 

Just ONE of those leveled Tito, Just ONE of those leveled Thiago...

 

Either way I think the rematch is a real healthy thing for the sport. Contreversey creates interest in a rematch casual fans might not usualy have been interested in seeing..[/QUO great post! this is the fight i saw..lyoto won & i'm a fan of both, could of went either way & i would have been happy..i've been a big fan of shogansince watching his pride work but still believe machida won..i don't understand how true mma enthusiasts can say shogun got robbed..he was great in that fight but did not win split decision would have been more just

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You are just like Machida. refusing to take a stand' date=' he could'n even aswer the question when asked if he thought he wonthe fight his answer , the 3 refs scored the fight not me, If that is not lack of confidence i don't know what is.[/quote']

 

Well, when asked that question Machida could have said 'Yes absolutely, I totally agree with the judges and strongly feel I won the fight' which would have lost him alot of fans for being arrogant and shown lack of respect for Shogun who put up a hell of a fight. Machida's answer 'the 3 refs scored the fight not me' is the most professional answer you can give (I would have added 'I take my hat off to Shogun' as well).

 

If Machida didnt feel he won the fight, whats he going to accomplish by saying that? It wasnt a lopsided fight, it was a very close fight. It doesnt matter what he thinks, just the judges, and all 3 of them thought the same so the decision is unanimous. Machida's answer to that question was very appropriate and professional. If you dont like it as the losing fighter then become a judge or simply finish the fight yourself.

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I understand when you say Machida was walking back but he also attacked as you can see in the gifs' date=' and he took advantage when they got closer to each other. Not all Shogun's kicks damaged Lyoto's leg but it was a path to avoid his moves in the octagon, the beginning of the puzzle solution.

 

Some guys want to measure the intensity of the his or something else. Refs did a good job. The fight was close and the unique mistake was given Machida the unanimous decision. That was split.[/quote']

 

He attacked in the beginning but then he stoped beacuse he was getting punished from Shogun. Why would a split decision be better??? You are basiclly saying that 2 judges should agree with Machida winning and one with Shogun. It makes no sense. If you think Machida clearly won than why should one judge disagree with you?

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I felt that people were obviously swayed by Joe Rogan's comments. This can be seen by the way they are highlighting Shogun's leg kicks as the main evidence for a Shogun win. The fact they are ignoring the fact that they were frequently countered or checked by straight lefts by Machida much the same way as Joe Rogan did seems to support this. these punches did have an effect because each time they landed Shogun backed up and did not follow up his "devastating leg kicks" which were obviously not that devastating because Machida was able to remain standing and was still able to move lightly on his feet till the end of the match, also at on point Shogun catches Machida on one leg and kicks the supporting leg and fails to knock him down which does not point towards the suggested devastation. However Joe Rogan was very quick to point out how great the attack was.

 

I urge people to watch the fight again with the sound off as the bias showed by Joe Rogan is quite phenomenal. During round 3 Machida puts together the best attack of the bout and pushes Shogun back to the cage with a combination of strikes and takes a desperate defensive right hand at the end of the attack. Machida's pressure and effective striking goes without comment from Mr Rogan as he waxes lyrical about Shogun's right hand and even does the same in the mid round replay even though Shogun can clearly be seen to be under extreme pressure. This was the formula for the entire fight Joe Rogan didn't mention any of the stiff lefts halting Shogun in his tracks almost every time he threw a leg kick or any of the nice counter knees Machida connected with.

 

Yes the commentary can effect peoples judgement because I believe it has overplayed the effectiveness of Shoguns leg kicks. They could not have been that effective as they were so frequently countered with strikes that prevented him from following up. This was a UFC fight which scores rounds by, amongst other things, EFFECTIVE striking it is not amateur boxing where just making contact counts. A strike is not effective when the result of throwing it is you getting punched so hard in the face you have to stop your attack and reassess your position. Based on this I would give Machida the ascendancy in those encounters. All three judges seemed to agree and their cards were very similar .

 

So in summary I do agree with the poster that Machida won a close, technical and very enjoyable fight, however i feel that Joe Rogan's seriously flawed and biased commentary has affected many people's opinion

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I'm new member to the forum, but an avid reader. This debate may never end. I watched the fight with some friends, all of who are avid MMA fans. We all scored the fight individually. most of them had it 49-46 Rua. I scored it 48-47 Rua. Personally, while i do respect the technicality of the fight for all 5 rounds, it was very difficult to score. Machida is the Muhammed Ali of MMA. He's precise, a great counter striker and is hard to hit. Shogun on the other hand, I always saw as a bit wreckless and gung **. He usually finds a spot and than goes guns blazing. The fact that both guys fought with a similar style in this fight, to me, proves that there was a ton of mutual repsect for each other's striking ability. Not taking anything away from either fighter, I thought both fought not to lose, plain and simple. I do feel Shogun on the fight. I try to be as unbiased as possible when scoring fights and in most Machida fights I treat like scoring a boxing match. I count strikes landed and effectivness of strikes. I had shogun landing almost twice as man strikes. Many of both fighters strikes did not land the cleanest or were checked. I do not feel either fighter was significantly stunned or hurt during the fight at all. As a whole I sum up the fight simply: It was Shogun's leg/body kicks vs a few counter strikes and a couple "pseudo, mimi flurries" by Machida. While body and leg kicks are not going to knock anyone out, I did feel across the board they were the superior striking choice in this fight, so I scored in the end for Shogun. Machida did have a few small flurries where one would think he was really turning it on and going to try to end the fight, but if you slow it down, very little lands effectively. As far as the decision goes, Cecil Peoples, well I will not eve comment on my opinions of his abilities. I am a firm believer that to be the man you have to beat the man, doesn't have to be a complete domination or massacre of the champ. I thought Shogun pointed out a close decision. I think the biggest uproar is the fact that it was unanimous decision for Machida. We have all seen many fights where judging has been wrong. Bisping/Hamill for instance. The rematch will be exciting and i am looking forward to it. I just hope both come to fight and finish, because this debate is never ending. Decisions suck, Judges suck, MMA is the greatest sport in the world.

 

Take care,

 

PC

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I think many of Machidas punches DID hurt Shogun. He's a very precise striker' date=' and a few of them landed plush like in the picture at the top of the thread..

 

[b']There were 2-3 times in the fight were shogun was forced to take a step back from a counter, indicating he got hurt. So it's hard to argue.[/b]

 

Shogun in the post fight interview also has a rather large welt/bruise on his forehead and a mouse on his eye.

 

Alot of people were measuring damage by machidas face, which isn't realy reflective. If someone gets knocked out, like say Rashad when they come to, often times they can show less damage than say someone who took a heavy beating but didn't fall only bled.

 

Plus chins don't bruise ;)

 

Southpaw Straight left down the middle FOR THE WIN.

 

thats way less than the times machida back pedals from being kicked, and stumbled against the fence from being punched, you put up a great arguement, but all it prves is that machida put upa fight, but didnt win regardless, your first clip shows shogun throw a kick, machida counter with a punch, but yet shogun counters THAT with a punch of his own that throws machida back

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The small thing that seems to be forgotten by many of you on this thread is that Machida was the Defender of the title. This was not just the average fight. In most situations anything resembling a tie for a title will always go to the defender. Machida didn't have anything to prove he is already the title holder. It's the contender's job to take it. The truth of the matter is that Machida defended his title. Shogun was the one who had to prove something not Machida.

 

So you guys can go back and forth all you want to but the fact remains that Machida is the winner Shogun is the loser. Now please don't get me wrong...i like both fighters but from a non biased standpoint it's very simple to see that much of Machida's attacks were counter and half the time the commentators are raving about the actions of shogun so pyschologically speaking many viewers let the fight be dictated in their mind by the commentators not what was truly taking place. Try watching a fight with out commentators and the fight will play out much differenty that's why you sometimes get all worked up if the judges decision is not what you expect.

 

I believe a rematch with the two may prove to be an even more exciting fight now that they have a feel for each others style. just my two cents whether right or wrong!

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The small thing that seems to be forgotten by many of you on this thread is that Machida was the Defender of the title. This was not just the average fight. In most situations anything resembling a tie for a title will always go to the defender. Machida didn't have anything to prove he is already the title holder. It's the contender's job to take it. The truth of the matter is that Machida defended his title. Shogun was the one who had to prove something not Machida.

 

So you guys can go back and forth all you want to but the fact remains that Machida is the winner Shogun is the loser. Now please don't get me wrong...i like both fighters but from a non biased standpoint it's very simple to see that much of Machida's attacks were counter and half the time the commentators are raving about the actions of shogun so pyschologically speaking many viewers let the fight be dictated in their mind by the commentators not what was truly taking place. Try watching a fight with out commentators and the fight will play out much differenty that's why you sometimes get all worked up if the judges decision is not what you expect.

 

I believe a rematch with the two may prove to be an even more exciting fight now that they have a feel for each others style. just my two cents whether right or wrong!

 

i hate amatuers saying you have to take the title from the champ to be the champ, only because mike goldberg the biggest noob of all said it... please, how about you have to defend your title to keep your title, machida merely survived that fight, he proved nothing that he deserved to keep his belt, just because shogun didnt win in devastating fashion like ko or sub so that all of the mma newbs can be all like COOL!! doesnt mean he didnt win, a decision is a decision and thst decision shouldve been his

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Great article. I do agree that Machida won fair and square. A lot of people ignore his counters, but as long as Machida has his belt then justice is served.

 

Also, I hate it when people say that Machida "runs away". It is not called running away. It is called self-defense. What smart fighter would stand in front of his opponent and take their strikes?

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Aaaannndddddd

Cecil Peoples said something along the lines of...

 

The judging is based on striking, grappling, aggression, and octagon control

Shogun was more aggressive and won the striking, but Lyoto controlled the octagon and had better grappling, therefore at all times the fight took place where Lyoto wanted it.

Each fighter was favored in two aspects but the striking was barely won by Shogun, and the grappling and octagon control was very one sided and that's why Machida got the decision.

 

I still think it's bull crap, Shogun is the champion... because at the end of the day, all four off those aspects are just tools used to damage your opponent, and Machida took more damage for sure, but I guess the judge somewhat legitimized his reason. :/

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Obviously you are not a fighter so your commentary/review makes sense in that respect. Any fighter knows that if it's a close fight then you better inflict the most damage which Shogun CLEARLY DID. Machida's mouth was bloodied and his side looked like a porkrine! For anyone to say that Machida won that fight is so diluted that I am sure they think Punkbing beat Hamil too! The other response about a fine line between ellusiveness and running away was a GREAT comment and the latter is clearly what Machida did in this fight. Ellusive! Pahleese!

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Obviously you are not a fighter so your commentary/review makes sense in that respect. Any fighter knows that if it's a close fight then you better inflict the most damage which Shogun CLEARLY DID. Machida's mouth was bloodied and his side looked like a porkrine! For anyone to say that Machida won that fight is so diluted that I am sure they think Punkbing beat Hamil too! The other response about a fine line between ellusiveness and running away was a GREAT comment and the latter is clearly what Machida did in this fight. Ellusive! Pahleese!

 

Completly agreed with you.

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