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The answer for machida if he rematches rua


st762410

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basically, the only weapon rua had that was effective against mach was his leg kicks. if they rematch, im sure machida will throw leg kicks of his own. and if he does, he'll be more effective as rua is not as good a counter puncher as machida is. rua didnt really hurt machida with any punches. im not saying he didnt land. im saying he didnt hurt mach at any point with his hands. mach on the other hand, stunned rua a few times with his hands. fans of rua may not want to admit it, but he did. now, if machida can add the kicks with his already dangerous hands, i think he wins hands down, as rua wont be able to take mach to the ground (much like the first fight). btw, i thought rua won the first fight.

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Machida doesn't really throw the same kind of leg kicks. He has nice little sweeps and some vicious knees but his kicks are mainly head and midriff ones due to his stance and karate background.

 

Of course he could switch styles and try to outkick Rua but that would be like Rua trying to out punch Machida - choosing to fight on your opponent's turf - maybe it has a surprise factor but it's not exactly Art of War recommended.

 

I think we saw on Saturday that Rua is as fast as Machida was in that fight.

He also didn't get stunned by Machida's head punches like Thiago and Rashad did.

He also adopted a perfect Bas Rutten recommended anti-Machida strategy.

 

It may also have been an off night for Lyoto though as he looked a little slower than usual to me.

 

On the other hand Machida wasn't really phased by any of Rua's punches and easily stuffed his takedown attempts. He also almost took him down with those little sweeps a couple of times.

 

I think what Lyoto might do next time is spend the first round seeing if he can get his punches off faster and harder. If he can't or if Rua's leg kicks start getting through I think he might switch to trying for takedowns (with his superior wrestling and sweeps) and GnP...of course Rua has stellar clinches and BJJ so this is dangerous, but I can't see that Lyoto and his Blackhouse team will let the next fight become a carbon copy of the first one...he will lose the belt for sure next time if they do..

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I honestly believe that Machida and I mean the REAL Machida just needs to show up in the rematch. Granted the fight was controversial but thats because it was so close! IF Lyoto won then it should of been a split, anyway... Rua was on his game and thats the best I have seen him since his PRIDE days but Lyoto just din't show up. Machida when he is on his game is technically the best fighter in the world rivalled only by Anderson (shame we'll never see that one) but Rua will be full of confidence in the rematch and will think he has the beating of The Dragon. Can't wait!

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please show me a moment when machida STUNNED shogun lol please, the only hard hits machida landed were his lunging knees, nothing else, he had a bunch of combos that looked like were affective but he landed nothing and shogun countered beautifully, machida was exposed, he is no longer a mystery, ppl used to see him as untouchable but now he is just another top lhw in the mix of it all, the rematch will hopefully end in some sort of t(ko) or sub to end all the questions, who ever wins or loses the rematch, it will e a great fight

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bro i am a shogun fan but doesnt mean i quote u because of this...shogun was never hurt in the fight, machida hit rua and rua went for take downs never rocked...when chida rushed shogun and shogun got the best of the exchange with tha big right hand to machidas face, machida was hurt and clinched agree?

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Rua is as fast as "the dragon" - he is easily as good a stricker as machida and he was patient througout. I gave him 4 rounds to 1

 

dragon's wait for them to come to me is just NOT the ufc way...we expect our champions to fight with heart and not wait to sucker punch an aggressor.

 

Watch the fight again and see the "karate kid" pose in the first round go to mush by the 5 round...He just needs to face a few more Patient fighters to get put back in his box.

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Completely agree. with WAR_SHOGUN and with with Rogan...after every exchange...Machida was amazed to find that he came off the worse...Rua struck the cleaner blows in what is Machida's principle area of expertise....

Rua...brilliant strategy, brilliant patience, deserved the win.

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neither machida or rua were really hurt...

 

Machida was closer to ko rua ( by that i mean he actually try to land combos)

Shogun was closer to win a decision to machida ( by that i mean if there was another round rua would of took it for sure)

 

The rematch is going to be a lot different , shogun will probably be more agressive and machida will probably mix it up a little bit , maybe even change his karate stand and become the agressor..

 

I can see machida or rua winning the next match , I actually think one of those two may take the fight to the ground , I highly doubt rua will try the leg kicks for 5 rounds ..

 

I can see rua attacing lyotos legs from round 1 and then finishing lyoto in round 3 , but at the same time i really hope lyoto can come out with a strategy against ruas leg kicks...

 

Also if you watch the fight again you can see that when lyoto decided to be the agressor he put rua against the fence , thing is lyoto never followed his attacks , instead he went back to his karate stand allowing rua to adopt his muay thai stand...

 

Its a great matchup

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basically' date=' the only weapon rua had that was effective against mach was his leg kicks. if they rematch, im sure machida will throw leg kicks of his own. and if he does, he'll be more effective as rua is not as good a counter puncher as machida is. rua didnt really hurt machida with any punches. im not saying he didnt land. im saying he didnt hurt mach at any point with his hands. mach on the other hand, stunned rua a few times with his hands. fans of rua may not want to admit it, but he did. now, if machida can add the kicks with his already dangerous hands, i think he wins hands down, as rua wont be able to take mach to the ground (much like the first fight). btw, i thought rua won the first fight.[/quote']

 

Are u serious right now, Machida never hurt Shogun with his hands. All lyoto did was throw love taps and tried to trip shogun while rua was throwing kicks to make it look like he stunned him. Its ********, if that was the case then wouldnt lyoto sworm all over shogun, he didnt cause he knew shogun wasnt phased.

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basically' date=' the only weapon rua had that was effective against mach was his leg kicks. if they rematch, im sure machida will throw leg kicks of his own. and if he does, he'll be more effective as rua is not as good a counter puncher as machida is. rua didnt really hurt machida with any punches. im not saying he didnt land. im saying he didnt hurt mach at any point with his hands. mach on the other hand, stunned rua a few times with his hands. fans of rua may not want to admit it, but he did. now, if machida can add the kicks with his already dangerous hands, i think he wins hands down, as rua wont be able to take mach to the ground (much like the first fight). btw, i thought rua won the first fight.[/quote']

 

For this to happen it would meen that Machida would be Thai boxing not using counter punching and Karate. So that would be a bad choice. I think he has no awnser atm as he needs to figure out how to check the leg kicks or possiably try to catch one and bull Rua to the mat. On getting to the mat he would have to bounce back up as he will not wanna stay down and possiably get sub'd. So I see the next fight as a sleeper. Machida will try to adapt a kick check to block those and back peddle even more waiting for one shot to open a flurry of counters with. Sad I think the next fight will be a marathon inside the octagon with lots of running.

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the only thing i think that machida can do as an answer for the leg kicks of shogun is check them. someone mentioned learning how to catch one like the silva/irvin fight, that would be a mistake. irvin doesnt throw leg kicks like shogun. trying to catch one of shogun kicks would most likely result in a broken hand. checking the kicks is definitely an option.

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basically' date=' the only weapon rua had that was effective against mach was his leg kicks. if they rematch, im sure machida will throw leg kicks of his own. and if he does, he'll be more effective as rua is not as good a counter puncher as machida is. rua didnt really hurt machida with any punches. im not saying he didnt land. im saying he didnt hurt mach at any point with his hands. mach on the other hand, stunned rua a few times with his hands. fans of rua may not want to admit it, but he did. now, if machida can add the kicks with his already dangerous hands, i think he wins hands down, as rua wont be able to take mach to the ground (much like the first fight). btw, i thought rua won the first fight.[/quote']

This would work working under the assumption that Machida's leg kicks are equally effective as Shoguns, but the reality of the situation is you're comparing getting hit by a baseball bat to getting hit by a tennis racket. Shogun has clubs for legs.

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again, if u look at the fight, you'll clearly see in the early rounds, that rua was stunned at least once. rua is a very experienced fighter so if u slightly daze him, its nothing. he'll shake it off immediately and keep his composure. thats what he did. most fighters, arent as experienced and composed in those situations.

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when they have their rematch, the Dragon would simply need to 'show up' his usual self! he was just a little slower then his previous fights. and credit to Rua, he did a wonderful job! the reason why Machida won the fights, ppl will need to undersatnd more martial art. i understand Rua hit/landed more powerful kick on Machida let's say 10. however Machida landed maybe 3 times more punch/kicks on Rua, which those hit were weaker. so as a martial artist, we all know 30 landed is better then 10. however if Rua was able to knock the Dragon down would be a different story, he would be scored higher.

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when they have their rematch' date=' the Dragon would simply need to 'show up' his usual self! he was just a little slower then his previous fights. and credit to Rua, he did a wonderful job! the reason why Machida won the fights, ppl will need to undersatnd more martial art. i understand Rua hit/landed more powerful kick on Machida let's say 10. however Machida landed maybe 3 times more punch/kicks on Rua, which those hit were weaker. so as a martial artist, we all know 30 landed is better then 10. however if Rua was able to knock the Dragon down would be a different story, he would be scored higher.[/quote']

 

no disrepsect, but i dont know where you got your stats. machida did not land more strikes in that fight. not even close.

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basically' date=' the only weapon rua had that was effective against mach was his leg kicks. if they rematch, im sure machida will throw leg kicks of his own. and if he does, he'll be more effective as rua is not as good a counter puncher as machida is. rua didnt really hurt machida with any punches. im not saying he didnt land. im saying he didnt hurt mach at any point with his hands. mach on the other hand, stunned rua a few times with his hands. fans of rua may not want to admit it, but he did. now, if machida can add the kicks with his already dangerous hands, i think he wins hands down, as rua wont be able to take mach to the ground (much like the first fight). btw, i thought rua won the first fight.[/quote']

 

Both fighters stated in the Post fight Conference, that not at one point in the fight were they stunned or rocked by any punches. IMO, the hardest punch that landed in the fight, was the punch at the end of that flurry Machida started, the one which Shogun landed, Shogun landed it, and it forced Machida to clinch up. Other than that, no other punches really rocked or stunned either fighters. IMO, it was the leg kicks and the body kicks that set apart the fighters, and that were the deciding factor as to who was on top in the fight. And thats where Rua should have won. Because overall, he inflicted more damage.

 

Anyway!!! Stop with these ****ing threads haha. Its getting annoying now haha.

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when they have their rematch' date=' the Dragon would simply need to 'show up' his usual self! he was just a little slower then his previous fights. and credit to Rua, he did a wonderful job! the reason why Machida won the fights, ppl will need to undersatnd more martial art. i understand Rua hit/landed more powerful kick on Machida let's say 10. however Machida landed maybe 3 times more punch/kicks on Rua, which those hit were weaker. so as a martial artist, we all know 30 landed is better then 10. however if Rua was able to knock the Dragon down would be a different story, he would be scored higher.[/quote']

 

Lol man, where you get your stats from? Rua landed over double the amount of strikes that Machida landed - FACT. He even landed more punches to the head... The only area where Machida landed more, was body shots. And even then he only landed 3 more bodyshots lol. Hmmm..... maybe your mistaken? Lol. Look, i just dont understand how EVERY MMA analyst scored Rua to win, and every pro fighter that watched the fight, and pretty much every fan that watched the fight scored Rua as the winner. So why is there this tiny minority that is so convinced that Machida won. Well... i take that back, because officially he did win. But, he shouldnt of. The way it was judged was just wrong. Favouring a specific style is wrong IMO.

 

DAM THESE THREADS LOL. I hate seeing them, but whenever i do i have to post on them haha.

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Lol man' date=' where you get your stats from? Rua landed over double the amount of strikes that Machida landed - FACT. He even landed more punches to the head... The only area where Machida landed more, was body shots. And even then he only landed 3 more bodyshots lol. Hmmm..... maybe your mistaken? Lol. Look, i just dont understand how EVERY MMA analyst scored Rua to win, and every pro fighter that watched the fight, and pretty much every fan that watched the fight scored Rua as the winner. So why is there this tiny minority that is so convinced that Machida won. Well... i take that back, because officially he did win. But, he shouldnt of. The way it was judged was just wrong. Favouring a specific style is wrong IMO.

 

DAM THESE THREADS LOL. I hate seeing them, but whenever i do i have to post on them haha.[/quote']

 

Where are you gettings your 'facts' from?

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Their fight showed me that Machida really has nothing on Shogun. Shogun didn't go for the finish because he didn't want to take any chances and honestly thought he was winning the fight. However, with he amount of damage Machida was taking to the legs he really wouldn't be able to survive a Shogun flurry. Btw the leg kicks are unavoidable for Machida because of his stance.

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HA! GTFO with that crap. All the people that quote fightmetric are sheep' date=' and I'm 100% positive that you haven't even seen the fight.

 

Here's a 'fact'.. the Earth is flat! See how easy that is?[/quote']

 

You asked me where i got my facts from haha? Thats the ONLY reason why i quoted fightmetric haha. Your 100% positive that i havnt seen the fight? When im a HUGE Shogun fan, who has been watching MMA for over 8 years now, and i practically live and breath martial arts lol, and i would miss a huge fight like that haha? Hmm na. Iv watched the fight a total of 5 times now. Call me sad.. but i had too!!! Do you not remember arguing with me about the fight 'seXXXpac'?

 

I dont really get the point you are making with your last sentence...

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Their fight showed me that Machida really has nothing on Shogun. Shogun didn't go for the finish because he didn't want to take any chances and honestly thought he was winning the fight. However' date=' with he amount of damage Machida was taking to the legs he really wouldn't be able to survive a Shogun flurry. Btw the leg kicks are unavoidable for Machida because of his stance.[/quote']

 

Shogun didn't go for the finish, because every time he closed distance, Machida blasted him in the face.

FACT!

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You asked me where i got my facts from haha? Thats the ONLY reason why i quoted fightmetric haha. Your 100% positive that i havnt seen the fight? When im a HUGE Shogun fan' date=' who has been watching MMA for over 8 years now, and i practically live and breath martial arts lol, and i would miss a huge fight like that haha? Hmm na. Iv watched the fight a total of 5 times now. Call me sad.. but i had too!!! Do you not remember arguing with me about the fight 'seXXXpac'?

 

I dont really get the point you are making with your last sentence...[/quote']

 

Yes, I remember arguing with you about the fight. I'll also admit that you've been following the sport a little longer than I have, as I started really watching in 2002.

 

But for you to quote such inaccurate stats such as those on FM, is mind blowing. I can't see how you say that they are factual, when anyone with a properly functioning set of eyes, can tell that it wasn't nearly the way they have it.

I've watched the fight four times (I don't think you're sad, lol), and I'll be watching it again tonight with a friend of mine.. he also thinks Shogun won. I will be trying to point out how Machida won.

 

What I was getting at in my last sentence, was that ANYBODY can write something on the internet. You only choose to believe it as a fact if you want. We all know the Earth isn't flat, and most people should know that FM is biased and inaccurate.

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when they have their rematch' date=' the Dragon would simply need to 'show up' his usual self! he was just a little slower then his previous fights. and credit to Rua, he did a wonderful job! the reason why Machida won the fights, ppl will need to undersatnd more martial art. i understand Rua hit/landed more powerful kick on Machida let's say 10. however Machida landed maybe 3 times more punch/kicks on Rua, which those hit were weaker. so as a martial artist, we all know 30 landed is better then 10. however if Rua was able to knock the Dragon down would be a different story, he would be scored higher.[/quote']

Rua landed many many more strikes period. A higher percentage of Rua's strikes were power strikes as well, as opposed to paw's to the facial area like many of Machida's punches were.

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I think the answer for Machida is

 

1. Not to eat knees when they clinch buy not allowing Rua to press him against the cage. That was the start of Machida's troubles. He needs to reverse the position and put Rua against the cage and land his own knees or escape quickly or get double underhooks to look for a trip. He can't just sit there like he did defending the takdown but eating knees to the thighs.

 

2. When Rua comes in he needs to fient while he's moving back then come forward as Rua commits to counter attack with the straight left down the pipe and follow-up punches or with low/mid kicks as Rua retreats. Evading Rua's kicks and checking them from the southpaw position will be difficult and they may get through anyway. However he can switch stances absorb it and immediately catch/trap it and counter with an overhand. He can't play the outside game he needs to get inside and flurry away. He needs to make Rua pay as he comes in. One of the big mistakes he made was trying to evade then counter

 

3. He also needs to work an inside low kick himself to keep Rua guessing. He was being too predictable with his attacks. Rua knew all he had to worry about was a rear roundhouse kick to the body or head and the rear straight left cross with an occasional flurry.

 

4. He also needs to circle away from Rua's right side more. Lyoto often suffered from Bisping-itis quite a bit which left his legs and body open. While he was moving away he was still circling into to power. He did this quite a few times and payed for it everytime.

 

So to summerize he needs to circle away from power, add his own rear low kick inside threat and counterattack every time Rua commits even if he backs away when Rua fients he needs to come forward and counter as Rua attacks. Finally he needs to control the clinch or escape quickly before Rua can press him against the cage.

 

I also think Lyoto was a little tense and it threw off his timing a bit and made him tired sooner than usual. I think he came in with more pressure then Shogun and he didn't look as relaxed as Shogun. Just a little less tense and I feel he would have performed better. You can't be too lax in there but not too tense either. It's a fine line and Rua seemed to have that balance just about right.

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