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Machida = overrated


CigarMelon

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After reading SOOOOOO much about this fight - who beat whom, Machida this, Rua that. Honestly, there are a lot of BS statements out there, and mine can be seen as BS too. But in my opinion, the UFC did a wonderful job in promoting a fighter that just doesn't have what it takes. The 'karate kid' was a great angle. The fact that Lyoto and Anderson are best friends - that must mean Lyoto is good!?! Lyoto, the true martial artist - training at ancient Aztec ruins in Brazil. The fact that he was undefeated, and was knocking people out - people couldn't fight his style, and no one will be able to.

 

This is all going to end, and Machida won't ever be the same. Rematch goes to Rua.

 

No, this is not sarcasm, it is my opinion.

 

My intention is not to keep this argument going, but to state my opinion...

 

I will not answer posts that are childish and try and attack me. It's far too easy to ridicule someone by typing on a keyboard.

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I got a question though. Before this fight, this forum was crawling with Machida fans. Now, were they just fare weather fans? Band wagoners? What is it? Do you stop being a fan cause you think he should have lost? He won the fight. I am so surprised with all the negativity. I truly am. He won the first three rounds. They were close, but he won them. Is he over rated? Certainly not. If you think he is, please tell me by who.

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After reading SOOOOOO much about this fight - who beat whom' date=' Machida this, Rua that. Honestly, there are a lot of BS statements out there, and mine can be seen as BS too. But in my opinion, the UFC did a wonderful job in promoting a fighter that just doesn't have what it takes. The 'karate kid' was a great angle. The fact that Lyoto and Anderson are best friends - that must mean Lyoto is good!?! Lyoto, the true martial artist - training at ancient Aztec ruins in Brazil. The fact that he was undefeated, and was knocking people out - people couldn't fight his style, and no one will be able to.

 

This is all going to end, and Machida won't ever be the same. Rematch goes to Rua.

 

No, this is not sarcasm, it is my opinion.

 

My intention is not to keep this argument going, but to state my opinion...

 

I will not answer posts that are childish and try and attack me. It's far too easy to ridicule someone by typing on a keyboard.[/quote']

 

He's overrated because he beat a very good fighter by decision?, whatever..

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You can only talk about something for little while before it begins to get kind of annoying. You have to state the facts and after everyone has their says. Thats pretty much it.

 

And, I do not feel that each and every forum member needs their own thread on the same subject.

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I got a question though. Before this fight' date=' this forum was crawling with Machida fans. Now, were they just fare weather fans? Band wagoners? What is it? Do you stop being a fan cause you think he should have lost? He won the fight. I am so surprised with all the negativity. I truly am. He won the first three rounds. They were close, but he won them. Is he over rated? Certainly not. If you think he is, please tell me by who.[/quote']

 

Im still a machida fan, and I always will be. Some people are just sooooo, ify. They change theirs minds in a heart beat. It confuses me too.

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I got a question though. Before this fight' date=' this forum was crawling with Machida fans. Now, were they just fare weather fans? Band wagoners? What is it? Do you stop being a fan cause you think he should have lost? He won the fight. I am so surprised with all the negativity. I truly am. He won the first three rounds. They were close, but he won them. Is he over rated? Certainly not. If you think he is, please tell me by who.[/quote']

 

Thats how some people are, i recall 90% of these guys saying Shogun did'nt even deserve a title shot and now all of a sudden he's the best LHW in the world.

Also if the judges would have given the fight to Shogun i can bet that all the Shogun fans who are complaining would be saying that Cecil Peoples is a brilliant judge and the best thing since sliced bread.

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I got a question though. Before this fight' date=' this forum was crawling with Machida fans. Now, were they just fare weather fans? Band wagoners? What is it? Do you stop being a fan cause you think he should have lost? He won the fight. I am so surprised with all the negativity. I truly am. He won the first three rounds. They were close, but he won them. Is he over rated? Certainly not. If you think he is, please tell me by who.[/quote']

 

Like I alluded to, the UFC did a great job in promoting Lyoto - growing his fan base. I always liked Lyoto because of his dedication and respect for the sport and for the history of martial arts. That being said, I was torn about who would win this fight. In the end, my gut told me Rua because I think too much attention was being put on Lyoto. This is why, IMO, he was overrated. IMO, Lyoto was set up to fail, and that was unfair.

 

About the fight, it's all in our interpretation. I am glad I am just a fan and my opinions don't affect the fighters lives. The first 3 rounds were close, but respectfully, I saw Rua winning at least 1 of the first 3 rounds.

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Personally I don't think we even saw Pride Shogun, Machida was outclassed by a B list fighter. I think that pretty much says he is overrated. Of course people are going to stop going for Machida when he loses, just like people stopped going for Chuck. Winners get fans and losers don't. Only the loyal fans will stay aboard and how can you be loyal to a fighter who has had some really boring fights and been exposed so early in his career? (Machida vs Rua was good and so was the Thiago Silva fight but the rest that I have seen have been awful)

 

I've never liked Machida so if I sound biased then im sorry but im no Shogun fan even I just think he deserved the victory in that fight.

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I have to say anyone who steps in that octagon deserves respect. Calling anyone overrated doesn't make any sense to me especially when the guy is winning. He won the decision because the judges saw things we didn't see. We are subjected to one camera angle at a time. The judges were right there and can see everything. Rua did put on a great performance but it wasn't enough to sway the vote in his direction.

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I have to say anyone who steps in that octagon deserves respect. Calling anyone overrated doesn't make any sense to me especially when the guy is winning. He won the decision because the judges saw things we didn't see. We are subjected to one camera angle at a time. The judges were right there and can see everything. Rua did put on a great performance but it wasn't enough to sway the vote in his direction.

 

Respect is different then being overrated. As far as the judges saw things we didn't, your right. They had to pear through black cagelink at one static angle. We had the fortune of different angles, the best angles according to the position of the fighters, and replay. We truly had the best angle to judge the fight. The judges DON'T see everything, lol.

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Okay since everybody with a level head agrees it was a great fight and it was close lets just sit back and enjoy the fact that we get to see this fight again in a few months and that one will be even better. Machida will want to come out and dominate rua and prove he's not a fluke...Rua will feel as though he won the last fight and he will be even more motivated to win the next fight be KO. It was a great fight very tactical and the rematch figures to be even better. Machida has the belt and Rua still wants it.. lets enjoy Machida Rua 2

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Respect is different then being overrated. As far as the judges saw things we didn't' date=' your right. They had to pear through black cagelink at one static angle. We had the fortune of different angles, the best angles according to the position of the fighters, and replay. We truly had the best angle to judge the fight. The judges DON'T see everything, lol.[/quote']

 

So, are you saying that all the judges sit on the same part of the Cage??

lol

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Here are some of the top fighters that Machida has beaten. There are 3 former UFC champions and 1 current UFC champ on that list. I am biased because I am a Machida fan but saying he is overrated when he is 16-0 or even 15-1 if you think that he lost the Rua fight doesn't make sense.

 

Rich Franklin-KO

BJ Penn-Unanimous Decision

Tito Ortiz-Unanimous Decision

Thiago Silva-KO

Rashad Evans-KO

Shogun-Controversial Unanimous Decision

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After reading SOOOOOO much about this fight - who beat whom' date=' Machida this, Rua that. Honestly, there are a lot of BS statements out there, and mine can be seen as BS too. But in my opinion, the UFC did a wonderful job in promoting a fighter that just doesn't have what it takes. The 'karate kid' was a great angle. The fact that Lyoto and Anderson are best friends - that must mean Lyoto is good!?! Lyoto, the true martial artist - training at ancient Aztec ruins in Brazil. The fact that he was undefeated, and was knocking people out - people couldn't fight his style, and no one will be able to.

 

This is all going to end, and Machida won't ever be the same. Rematch goes to Rua.

 

No, this is not sarcasm, it is my opinion.

 

My intention is not to keep this argument going, but to state my opinion...

 

I will not answer posts that are childish and try and attack me. It's far too easy to ridicule someone by typing on a keyboard.[/quote']

 

i agree shogun beat machida and exposed machidas weaknesses, but woudlnt go as far as saying he is overratted, machida is one of the best lhw in the world and has imressive vi ctories over top tier fighters, bj penn, rich franklin, thiago silva, tito ortiz, rashad evans, and soukejo or however you spell it

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Personally I don't think we even saw Pride Shogun' date=' Machida was outclassed by a B list fighter. I think that pretty much says he is overrated. Of course people are going to stop going for Machida when he loses, just like people stopped going for Chuck. Winners get fans and losers don't. Only the loyal fans will stay aboard and how can you be loyal to a fighter who has had some really boring fights and been exposed so early in his career? (Machida vs Rua was good and so was the Thiago Silva fight but the rest that I have seen have been awful)

 

I've never liked Machida so if I sound biased then im sorry but im no Shogun fan even I just think he deserved the victory in that fight.[/quote']

 

I am so tired of hearing people talk about the "Pride Shogun", and if we're ever going to see that version of Shogun. Shogun used soccer kicks and stomps in the majority of his Pride fights, and I'm not taking anything away from him but this isn't Pride. Unless Shogun decides to go to an organization that allows the same rules as Pride did, we will never see that version of Shogun, period. Calling Shogun a B list fighter is a completely ridiculous comment. He is one of the best 205'ers in the world so I'm not really sure why you would refer to him as a B list fighter.

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I got a question though. Before this fight' date=' this forum was crawling with Machida fans. Now, were they just fare weather fans? Band wagoners? What is it? Do you stop being a fan cause you think he should have lost? He won the fight. I am so surprised with all the negativity. I truly am. He won the first three rounds. They were close, but he won them. Is he over rated? Certainly not. If you think he is, please tell me by who.[/quote']

 

Of course they were Bandwagon Jumpers. Everyone is a jumper around here. Ive been a Rua fan since 2004. Back in the Pride days. Me and several others here were the only ones backing up Rua when this match was made months ago. Did you notice when AK jumped aboard it was when Lyoto became Champion. I was a fan of Lyoto's too when he beat Rich Franklin before even coming to UFC. And I was the one of the few who thought he would become Champion before he was even placed against Tito Ortiz. But Im glad I didnt praise him like everyone else did.

 

He's not overrated, just over-hyped. Thats all. I just hope there isnt any Rua jumpers now after UFC 104. Theres no room for Jumpers in Rua's camp..........

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im not just jumping on the shogun bandwagon, i said even before this fight that machida is extremely overrated and hasnt been tested by a truly top level striker. then shogun came along, and did just that. he fought machida like no one else had, a calculated aggression, and he won the fight

 

just because i say he is overrated doesnt mean im saying he sucks. on the contrary, he is a very good fighter, but to say he is a top p4p before even 1 title defense, or his own retaded comments about fighting lesnar after 5 defenses, those are idiotic

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he was overrated by the fans who hyped him up to be untouchable because of a couple fights. its the same way with the people who say brock is unbeatable. machida is a great fighter, one of the best and he made ortiz and evans look like amateurs, but people need to stop getting ahead of themselves. its not the first time someone has been overrated and it certainly isnt the last.

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he was overrated by the fans who hyped him up to be untouchable because of a couple fights. its the same way with the people who say brock is unbeatable. machida is a great fighter' date=' one of the best and he made ortiz and evans look like amateurs, but people need to stop getting ahead of themselves. its not the first time someone has been overrated and it certainly isnt the last.[/quote']

 

Exactly. He is overrated because people made him out to be untouchable and unbeatable. Shogun was a tremendous underdog going into the fight and he really exposed Machida's weaknesses. In that fight the 'untouchable' and 'unbeatable' qualities went out the window. Shogun demonstrated how to hurt Machida and how to approach beating him. Its just a matter of making a few small changes to please the judges.

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he was overrated by the fans who hyped him up to be untouchable because of a couple fights. its the same way with the people who say brock is unbeatable. machida is a great fighter' date=' one of the best and he made ortiz and evans look like amateurs, but people need to stop getting ahead of themselves. its not the first time someone has been overrated and it certainly isnt the last.[/quote']

 

Thank you. I like seeing rational comments from senior members with over 1000 posts. That's called credibility.

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Well alot of ppl said shogun didnt have a chance in this fight im not saying everyone but alot but i knew shogun had it in him from the pride days but hes more pateint now hes all round better and will win a close rematch only this time hel KO machida after using them leg kicks.

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After reading SOOOOOO much about this fight - who beat whom' date=' Machida this, Rua that. Honestly, there are a lot of BS statements out there, and mine can be seen as BS too. But in my opinion, the UFC did a wonderful job in promoting a fighter that just doesn't have what it takes. The 'karate kid' was a great angle. The fact that Lyoto and Anderson are best friends - that must mean Lyoto is good!?! Lyoto, the true martial artist - training at ancient Aztec ruins in Brazil. The fact that he was undefeated, and was knocking people out - people couldn't fight his style, and no one will be able to.

 

This is all going to end, and Machida won't ever be the same. Rematch goes to Rua.

 

No, this is not sarcasm, it is my opinion.

 

My intention is not to keep this argument going, but to state my opinion...

 

I will not answer posts that are childish and try and attack me. It's far too easy to ridicule someone by typing on a keyboard.[/quote']

 

I will not try to be childish and attack you. What makes you any different from all the other Pride/Shogun wanna-be's who have a seemingly endless supply of tears? That fight was the first time in like seven UFC fights that Lyoto was even touched, never mind hurt. So we should just throw out everything he has accomplished, because he got hit with a few leg kicks? Go ask Franklin, Penn, Evans, Tito, Silva etc, if the Dragon is the real deal. That post may be the MOST ignorant, unintelligent statement I have ever seen on this forum, and that is saying alot. Pride is over, and so is Shogun's title shot, so get used to it.

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Here are some of the top fighters that Machida has beaten. There are 3 former UFC champions and 1 current UFC champ on that list. I am biased because I am a Machida fan but saying he is overrated when he is 16-0 or even 15-1 if you think that he lost the Rua fight doesn't make sense.

 

Rich Franklin-KO

BJ Penn-Unanimous Decision

Tito Ortiz-Unanimous Decision

Thiago Silva-KO

Rashad Evans-KO

Shogun-Controversial Unanimous Decision

 

This is exactly how I was going to start my post. He has also beat Stephan Bonnar. CigarMelon you have a fair opinion but I think it is a touch misguided. Overrated is definately the wrong word used here, misinterpreted maybe? Everyones already said it, he was overhyped to the lead up of the fight, and you can see why since he is undefeated and coming off 2 knockout wins prior. He is only human, far from unbeatable, but still a force to be reckoned with. Just like Anderson Silva is only human, and im gonna put it out there and say that Marquardt is gonna beat him if he ever gets the chance.

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I got a question though. Before this fight' date=' this forum was crawling with Machida fans. Now, were they just fare weather fans? Band wagoners? What is it? Do you stop being a fan cause you think he should have lost? He won the fight. I am so surprised with all the negativity. I truly am. He won the first three rounds. They were close, but he won them. Is he over rated? Certainly not. If you think he is, please tell me by who.[/quote']

 

No. Still a fan of Machida. Just not a fan of the way the decision was handed to him at UFC 104. I am not Shogun's fan but was very impressed with the manner in which he defeated Machida.

 

A true warrior acknowledges his defeats and learns from it.

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Respect is different then being overrated. As far as the judges saw things we didn't' date=' your right. They had to pear through black cagelink at one static angle. We had the fortune of different angles, the best angles according to the position of the fighters, and replay. We truly had the best angle to judge the fight. The judges DON'T see everything, lol.[/quote']

 

How do you know what judges can see or not? Have you ever sat in their seat? Calling someone overrated is being disrespectful. Considering he had to work his way to even get a title shot let alone become the champion does not qualify anyone to be overrated. I am trying to understand your logic but it doesn't make any sense to me. If you could elaborate more I would appreciate it.

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I've thought Machida was overrated ALONG time ago. I admit though he impressed me in his fight with Shogun, I thought if a fighter pulled him into deep water he wouldn't be able to make it out with a win, and I was proven wrong (by judges but still he got the W and that's what matters). Basically, I agree with you.

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Maybe CigarMelon is just another "Shogun '****'" LOL

 

I think Machida is a phenominal fighter.

 

I also think Shogun is an extraordinary fighter.

 

I think that what happened that night has every logical reason to be deemed as unfair, unjust and plain mindboggling. One might also say it was a fair and just decision. Depends on your point of view, depends if you were a true fan of either fighter, both or neither before the fight. And hey, if I was more of a Shogun fan before the fight than a Machida fan I would probably be ranting the exact same things as 10 billion other people have been on this board. But the bottom line is what has happened has happened, let it go. Im pretty sure just about everybody here respects Shogun a heck of a lot more now, and hes very deserving to say the least.

 

I also think when debating this over-debated argument most people have pointed the finger at the wrong people. Fact is 3 legitimate judges scored the fight to Machida, making him the current UFC LHW champion. Thats not a dream people, thats reality, like it or not. Another fact is that roughly 90some percent of people, MMA affiliated, fans, pro fighters, officials etc. all thought Shogun won. Which leaves me to this: if the vast majority of people can see that Shogun should have legitimately won the fight, but 3 judges cant see it, then the real problem is the scoring system. I truely believe that its uncommon to have 3 judges see things one way and just about everyone else in the world see it the opposite. In my opinion they were following a certain scoring criteria (briefly speculated by Cecil Peoples in 2 different interviews, see 'Cecil Peoples...' thread), and stuck to that criteria throughout the fight. Was the decision unfair? Perhaps so. Does the scoring system need to be reviewed and re-evaluated? Yes.

 

Dont blame human judges, blame the system. And do not even think to blame Machida let alone call him overrated, if he wasnt as good as he is Shogun would clearly have the title around his waist and none of you would be carrying on.

 

'Wooooosaaa', everyone.

 

Time to let it go.

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Machida did not win first 3 rounds. Replay and slow motion showed clearly misses and blocks. Clean hits goes to Shogun. Aggressiveness goes to Shogun. Machida was backing off most of the fights. I have no clue where you see him winning first 3 rounds. He won maybe 2 out of the 5. Clear shots score not blocked and misses. If that wasn't enough, his body, legs and face showed the damage done. I suggest you TIVO fights and watch them again. Thanx.

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I will not try to be childish and attack you. What makes you any different from all the other Pride/Shogun wanna-be's who have a seemingly endless supply of tears? That fight was the first time in like seven UFC fights that Lyoto was even touched' date=' never mind hurt. So we should just throw out everything he has accomplished, because he got hit with a few leg kicks? Go ask Franklin, Penn, Evans, Tito, Silva etc, if the Dragon is the real deal. That post may be the MOST ignorant, unintelligent statement I have ever seen on this forum, and that is saying alot. Pride is over, and so is Shogun's title shot, so get used to it.[/quote']

 

First of all, thanks for all the feed back. Listen, it is tough for any of us to properly express our points - thus, and lot of misperceptions are out there. So, let me clarify a few things. About being a Pride/Shogun wanna-be and a endless supply of tears, that was funny, but you are wrong. Honestly, this was my second ever fight watching Shogun. I have only seen highlights from his Pride days, and I am not going to judge him based on his highlight package. As far was what he got hit with...I think he got hit with more then just leg kicks. There were knees, elbows, and punches too. About it being the most ignorant...maybe this cleared it up. If not...oh well.

 

This is exactly how I was going to start my post. He has also beat Stephan Bonnar. CigarMelon you have a fair opinion but I think it is a touch misguided. Overrated is definately the wrong word used here' date=' misinterpreted maybe? Everyones already said it, he was overhyped to the lead up of the fight, and you can see why since he is undefeated and coming off 2 knockout wins prior. He is only human, far from unbeatable, but still a force to be reckoned with. Just like Anderson Silva is only human, and im gonna put it out there and say that Marquardt is gonna beat him if he ever gets the chance.[/quote']

 

Now, Lyoto has fought great guys and beat them. I am planning to YouTube them or something to see them. I never wanted to deny him of what he achieved in the past. I am refering to the NOW. You can be a great fighter and be overrated. It can happen. Lyoto was just put on too big a pedistal IMO. Sure his current fans stuck by him, but there were a LOT of new fans start in and, thus leading to a huge number of Lyoto '****s' making comments on these forums = getting overrated

.

How do you know what judges can see or not? Have you ever sat in their seat? Calling someone overrated is being disrespectful. Considering he had to work his way to even get a title shot let alone become the champion does not qualify anyone to be overrated. I am trying to understand your logic but it doesn't make any sense to me. If you could elaborate more I would appreciate it.

 

I hope the post clears it up a little. It is tough to come off right in this manner. About the judges view' date=' sure all 3 judges are sitting ringside watching from different viewpoints. These viewpoints don't change for them. They don't run around the cage or up to the cage to get a better angle. They stay seated, move there heads TRYING to get the best angle from where they sit. We on the other hand, well I am sure you have seen a PPV. Many angle, enlarged, replays. Can't really argue about who has the best advantage point, can you?

 

 

Maybe CigarMelon is just another "Shogun '****'" LOL

 

I think Machida is a phenominal fighter.

 

I also think Shogun is an extraordinary fighter.

 

I think that what happened that night has every logical reason to be deemed as unfair, unjust and plain mindboggling. One might also say it was a fair and just decision. Depends on your point of view, depends if you were a true fan of either fighter, both or neither before the fight. And hey, if I was more of a Shogun fan before the fight than a Machida fan I would probably be ranting the exact same things as 10 billion other people have been on this board. But the bottom line is what has happened has happened, let it go. Im pretty sure just about everybody here respects Shogun a heck of a lot more now, and hes very deserving to say the least.

 

I also think when debating this over-debated argument most people have pointed the finger at the wrong people. Fact is 3 legitimate judges scored the fight to Machida, making him the current UFC LHW champion. Thats not a dream people, thats reality, like it or not. Another fact is that roughly 90some percent of people, MMA affiliated, fans, pro fighters, officials etc. all thought Shogun won. Which leaves me to this: if the vast majority of people can see that Shogun should have legitimately won the fight, but 3 judges cant see it, then the real problem is the scoring system. I truely believe that its uncommon to have 3 judges see things one way and just about everyone else in the world see it the opposite. In my opinion they were following a certain scoring criteria (briefly speculated by Cecil Peoples in 2 different interviews, see 'Cecil Peoples...' thread), and stuck to that criteria throughout the fight. Was the decision unfair? Perhaps so. Does the scoring system need to be reviewed and re-evaluated? Yes.

 

Dont blame human judges, blame the system. And do not even think to blame Machida let alone call him overrated, if he wasnt as good as he is Shogun would clearly have the title around his waist and none of you would be carrying on.

 

'Wooooosaaa', everyone.

 

Time to let it go.

 

Again, I think I am being mis-interpreted. Read above comments please. About the scoring system, YES YES YES it is a problem. You admit it, I admit it, Dana admits it, thousands of people KNOW this. I do blame the system for Rua's LOSS. Machida had nothing to do with it. BUT, if the judging system is wrong, and you agree it is, then how can you say Machida justifiably won if these judges said he won based on a flawed system?

 

Machida and Rua are both great fighters - but a flawed system said Machida clearly won (UD). That is what I struggle with.

 

 

I hope this clears some things up, and for the most part, thanks for not tearing into the thread too too bad. lol

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I got a question though. Before this fight' date=' this forum was crawling with Machida fans. Now, were they just fare weather fans? Band wagoners? What is it? Do you stop being a fan cause you think he should have lost? He won the fight. I am so surprised with all the negativity. I truly am. He won the first three rounds. They were close, but he won them. Is he over rated? Certainly not. If you think he is, please tell me by who.[/quote']

 

I am still a fan of Machida, I just think he lost that fight. I hope he does well in the rest of his fights and hope he beats Shogun next time around.

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I got a question though. Before this fight' date=' this forum was crawling with Machida fans. Now, were they just fare weather fans? Band wagoners? What is it? .[/quote']

 

Lol I know! Thats what pisses me off. People are so quick to jump ship. When Shogun lost to Griffin it bothered me but I never stopped being his fan. People are so quick to jump on and off bandwagons. They even took down their pictures of Machida next to their names. Everybody use to quote under their comments "The Machida era, 09 year of the Dragon" what happened to all those fans? Lol

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Machida is not "overrated". The guy KO'd two unbeatens. T Silva is damn good, and so is R Evans. I can't believe anybody could doubt that he's legit after watching his fights. He'd never even lost a ROUND until Shogun. If winning by a close margin against one of the top fighters to ever fight makes you overrated then that's pathetic.....Machida has proved himself time and time again. What else does he have to do to prove himself? You guys honestly expect him to just walk in there and KO everybody he faces?

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