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2 styles that will always domiate in the ufc/mma


redmanblood

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Wrestling has always been thought as the best background to have whn getting into MMA, but i wouldnt say it completely nullifys Muay Thai and Kickboxing. Kicking is an effective part of MMA and doesnt come from either boxing or wrestling. I assume there will be more sides to this argument that just mine, i welcome any comeback, feedback or just general critical comments haha.

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The only reason anyone thinks that wrestling/boxing is the best base is because it is the easiest disciplines to practice without life long dedication and still have the capability to win. It is a strong base and I would say that an Average wrestler w/boxing will beat an average BJJ/ Muay Thai fighter. But thats about it. Once you start getting into masters and black belts of these arts wrestling and boxing alone fade to the back.

 

 

I assume that your friend is a Brock Lesnar fan by his opinion, and you need to tell him one thing to remember. Brock is a freakish physical specimen. Without his size/speed combo he would just be a big Sean Sherk with worse boxing.

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HW Champ - Wrestling/Boxing

LW Champ - Karate/BJJ

MW Champ - Muay Thai/BJJ/Judo

WW Champ - Wrestling/Kickboxing

LW Champ - Boxing/BJJ

 

Wrestling doesnt look as if its doing better than any other style. Arguably only one good boxer is champ, that being BJ. Lesnar cant box to save his granny.

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HW Champ - Wrestling... No really thats it.

LHW Champ - Karate/BJJ

MW Champ - Muay Thai/BJJ/Judo

WW Champ - Wrestling/Karate

LW Champ - Boxing/BJJ

 

Wrestling doesnt look as if its doing better than any other style. Arguably only one good boxer is champ' date=' that being [b']Anderson[/b]. Lesnar cant box to save his granny.

 

Fixed

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i think that boxing wrestling are great disciplines but i think that a perfect balance is much better, just like GSP he trains with boxers, wrestlers, jiu jitsu grapplers, kickboxers and dont forget that he has a kyokushin karate background so, for me he is the definition of a great balance between many disciplines.

 

__________________________________

 

my Favs:

 

135 Benavides, Bowels

145 Faber, Aldo

155 Penn, Pearson, Florian

170 GSP, Alves, Fitch

185 Hendo, Mousasi, Mayhem

205 Shogun, Wandy, Rampage

206 plus Mir, Velazquez, Cro Cop

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No style is proven better than the other. Successful Boxer/Wrestlers include: Rampage, Rashad, Dan Henderson, Chuck Lidell, Randy Coture, GSP (sort of-Kickboxing/wrestling), Sean Sherk, Diego Sanchez, Koschek, Hughes, Tito etc..

 

Successful in other disciplines: Fedor: boxing/sambo, Anderson: MT/BJJ, Lyoto: Karate/BJJ, Shogun: MT/BJJ, Penn: Boxing/BJJ, Mousasi: Kickboxing/BJJ, Aoki: BJJ/Kickboxing, Mir: Boxing/BJJ, Florian: MT/BJJ etc...

 

All depends on the particular skill of the fighter in the discipline they are in, not the discipline itself

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guys who are pure boxers would get man handled by most wrestlers just because they dont have the strength to compete with a wrestler. a boxer with jiu jitsu can be dangerous. a wrestler who can swing are the most dangerous like brock lesnar, rashad evans,rampage.gsp, and randy couture. frank mir is a black belt jiu jitsu who is becoming pretty good at striking. im comparing frank mir and fedor in type of fighter. mir started young in the ufc and his father was a jiu jitsu guy so he been around it his whole life the standup performance againgst big nog and kongo shows me he is similar to fedor. elite black belt jiu jitsu guys can beat any inexperience fighter that has been proven

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Early in a career a fighter can rely on wrestling to win him matches.A lot of times those wins are ugly wins where the wrestler practices lay and pray. Boxing will help him with his standup but once he reaches the next level, he better be well versed in defending against subs and kicks or he'll be put to sleep.

 

There is a reason why the sport is called MMA, you need to utilize all the tools at your disposal to nullify your opponent. There is one trend that is going to be interesting int he next generation of fighters. A ton of MMA schools have opened up that try to teach everything. I'm curious how a generation of fighters that are adequate in everything will do compared to fighters that focus on one discipline and then branch out. Well them being well rounded allow them to dominate those that can't do everything? Or, will an elite be able to dominate them in that one aspect?

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Particular styles is not as important as the skill displayed by individual fighters.

 

Maybe you should tell A. Silva, BJ, Machida, GSP, that they will never get far since they aren't boxing and wrestling based. I am sure that Silva, Shogun, Amir, Florian, etc.. all would be happy to learn their Muay Thai is weak and worthless in MMA. And I am sure BJ, Nog, Hazelet, Maia, etc.. will be happy to hear that their BJJ is useless also.

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I dont know if my friend was high but he told me if your a boxer / wrestler you pretty much will dominate in mma/ufc. He said that bjj muai thai kickboxing are all crappy styles of fighting and really wouldn't take you anywhere against a really good boxer/ wrestler.

 

i dont think it matters a whole lot what style you have

it matters more how good you are at it

a good BJJ guy would dominate a mediocre wrestler

skills you have, not the style

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You gotta be MMartist:

 

Hendo = Boxer = Choked by Anderson Silva.

Maia = BJJ specialist = Ended up KO'ded

Minoutauro = BJJ specialist = Before defeating Tim Sylvia and Bob Sapp had a storm over him.

Evans = Wrestler = Ko'd by Machida

 

.... and so ON.

 

 

 

================================================================

 

The ones who would easily survive who are well prepared for any field battle:

 

Anderson Silva = REAL MMA FIGHTER.

Vitor Belfort

Shogun

Machida

Jon Jones

Junior dos Santos ( got work hard on the ground with minota)

Minotouro

Coulture

Forrest ( no power on his hands... just cannot finish fights... shogun had his arm ****ed)

Thales Leites = Had his chance to mix things... is doing now he is out of UFC

Nate Marquardt = Destroyer and dedicated

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Thales Leites = Had his chance to mix things... is doing now he is out of UFC

Thales Leites is NOT well rounded and hasn't changed at all even outside UFC even though he said he was training standup and Hendo is primarily wrestling, good post other than that.
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On average, wrestling is probably the best but it can be completely nullfied by good takedown defence/movement - see BJ Penn, Chuck Liddell (in his prime) and arguably Anderson Silva & Lyoto Machida.

 

If your wrestling is greater than an opponent's wrestling and you can overcome their takedown defence, then it allows you dictate where the fight goes and at worst allows you to grind out a UD victory through 'octagon control' even if your punches are weak and your BJJ non-existent.

 

However, good wrestlers without submission defence are prey to BJJ artists once they are on the ground, and good wrestlers who are up against opponents with good takedown defence and better striking will struggle when forced to stand with their opponents.

 

Boxing and Muay Thai are two flavours of the same thing, but I'd muay thai the edge because of the variety of strikes, angles and opportunities it presents.

 

Basically, there is no perfect formula apart from the be the best at EVERY style as well as being the fastest and the strongest.

 

It has been proved time and time again that style vs. style is redundant. The early UFCs saw BJJ predominate, but once submission defence came in, it's importance waned. Coleman and Tito brought Ground N Pound to prominence, but the firstly the superior wrestling of Couture, then the sprawl & brawl of Liddell broke that myth.

 

Nowadays we exist in the realm of the cross-style superstars. GSP is a top notch wrestler, karate practioner etc. while Anderson Silva is as home on his feet as he is on trhe mat - remember, he submitted the much-celebrated wrestler Dan Henderson.

 

There is no magic formaula, only to strive to be the best in all ways. As Genki Sudo says, we are all One...

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I dont know if my friend was high but he told me if your a boxer / wrestler you pretty much will dominate in mma/ufc. He said that bjj muai thai kickboxing are all crappy styles of fighting and really wouldn't take you anywhere against a really good boxer/ wrestler.

 

At this point with the growth of the sport, one or two base styles isnt going to be enough anymore. ie: Damien Maia - yes his Jits are amazing, but without good standup he's dead in the water. Brock Mir 1, Brock was clearly able to outwrestle Mir, but had limited knowledge of submissions and got caught in one. There are millions of examples of you could bring up.

 

Every fighter should at the least have a basic knowledge of each and every aspect, whether it be Wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Boxing, Muay Thai, or Kick Boxing.... or any of the other martial arts that I left out...

 

Each of the champions we have right now (minus - Brock, I don't really see him throwin' too many head kicks...) are well versed in both stiking and grappling.

 

GSP is an amazing wrestler, but has excellent Jiu Jitsu, as well as very good standup.

Lyoto Machida (even though I do think he lost to Shogun) has a SUMO background, which explains his good takedown defense, as well as submission skills and KO power in his striking.

 

I could go on about each of them right now (minus Brock) but it's getting redundant. Take a look at every one of the champions out there right now Fedor, Anderson, GSP, Lyoto, BJ.... there isn't a single position you put them in that they wouldn't know how to handle themselves... well you know what I'm sayin, they'll all lose eventually, but for the sake of the argument...

 

1 or 2 styles won't dominate anything - An excellent mix of them all will.

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It's not really about the style, as much as the fighter who practices the style, and how good they are at it

we can sit here and prove points for any style all day long

 

but we have seen great wrestling outdo jiu jitsu and jiu jitsu wrestling,

 

Perfect example:

Wanderlei [Muay Thai] absolutely destroyed Rampage [more of a boxer] twice

but once Rampage got better he Knocked out Wanderlei decisively...

it wasn't about the style, it was about the fighters...

 

NO two styles dominate MMA, we actually don't have two UFC champions that have the same styles.

 

If you are looking for styles to practice yourself... I would try EVERYTHING and find out where you are naturally most comfortable...

 

I always thought I would be a knock out artist... I love Anderson, Rampage, Wanderlei, ect... but when I trained I found out I'm naturally adept to Jiu Jitsu...

I still train Boxing and Muay Thai, but you gotta find out where you natural comfort zone is...

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Well since the most dominating fighters are muay thai/kickboxers/karate. when you can box, your only using HALF of the potential strikes. so right away id throw out that boxing is #1 striking used in mma.

 

As for wrestling, its just a great base that creates a smooth transition to learn BJJ. where as BJJ you cant really say the same when it comes to crossing over to wrestling. you dont develope that athletic explosiveness wrestling provides.

 

wrestling doesnt win fights, it wins decisions. Its the equvelant of great footwork in the standup. And of course im speaking of pure traditional wrestling coming into mma. where as bjj finishes fights. id take a world class bjj over world class wrestler any day if it were a grappling match with no time limit and judging.

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wrestling is good but a BJJ fighter doesn't need wrestling but wrestlers need some BJJ even just defensive. so BJJ is king imo.

 

boxing is far to one dimensional for MMA 8 point muay thai stiking is far superior imo.

 

the best fighters will use a bit of everything though take the best bits of each style that best suits them. boxing style punches with muay thai kicks, greco roman take downs with BJJ submissions, or any number of possible variations. thats what MMA the best sport in the world.

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A great Wrestler will always have a chance. As a rule in today's MMA if you don't widen your disciplines you wont go far. As a base only, Wrestlers seem to have more success in general and it only helps to make BJJ and Boxing that much more effective. With good TD's you keep an opponent off balance making your Boxing more effective and you first need to get your opponent down to use your JJ.

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guys who are pure boxers would get man handled by most wrestlers just because they dont have the strength to compete with a wrestler. a boxer with jiu jitsu can be dangerous. a wrestler who can swing are the most dangerous like brock lesnar' date=' rashad evans,rampage.gsp, and randy couture. frank mir is a black belt jiu jitsu who is becoming pretty good at striking. im comparing frank mir and fedor in type of fighter. mir started young in the ufc and his father was a jiu jitsu guy so he been around it his whole life the standup performance againgst big nog and kongo shows me he is similar to fedor. elite black belt jiu jitsu guys can beat any inexperience fighter that has been proven[/quote']

 

haha mirs dad is a kenpo karate teacher not bjj , it was his dad that recommended he learn bjj after watching gracie fight though

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The only reason anyone thinks that wrestling/boxing is the best base is because it is the easiest disciplines to practice without life long dedication and still have the capability to win. It is a strong base and I would say that an Average wrestler w/boxing will beat an average BJJ/ Muay Thai fighter. But thats about it. Once you start getting into masters and black belts of these arts wrestling and boxing alone fade to the back.

 

 

I assume that your friend is a Brock Lesnar fan by his opinion' date=' and you need to tell him one thing to remember. Brock is a freakish physical specimen. Without his size/speed combo he would just be a big Sean Sherk with worse boxing.[/quote']

 

+1

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Wrestling has always been thought as the best background to have whn getting into MMA' date=' but i wouldnt say it completely nullifys Muay Thai and Kickboxing. Kicking is an effective part of MMA and doesnt come from either boxing or wrestling. I assume there will be more sides to this argument that just mine, i welcome any comeback, feedback or just general critical comments haha.[/quote']

 

yeah i agree

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