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Everyone changed their bout BJ


joshiec1203

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I ususally just read the threads, and every now and then I'll make a comment here and there, but I had to make a thread bout this...

 

Before the Sanchez fight, about 90% of the people on here, on every BJ-related thread, had to make sure to emphasis the point that "it's about time he's done jumping around and is committed to staying at 155 where he belongs. He was an idiot for jumping up a weight class." And now EVERYONE on here thinks it is ridiculous for him to stay at 155 and dominate, which is EXACLY what you were wanting him to do before that fight.

 

Anytime members like myself said anything about how he should contiune to move up here and there and work his way through WW contenders to see how he would do, people insisted that was the most idiotic idea ever because he could never beat GSP, couldn't hang with the top WW, and should ONLY fight 155 "where he belongs."

 

Well make up your f-ing mind!!! I've have been endlessly pissed off reading all these comments about how BJ HAS to move up now, when before staying and dominating 155 was all you wanted him to do. Everyone knew, or should have known, that BJ was this much better than the LW division WAY before he fought Diego. Who has even competed with him there since Pulver? No one.

 

I hope, just to spite all the haters out there, he never fights WW again, dominates LW to the point where people would like to see a rematch with GSP just to see if there is even a possiblity of a different outcome, and he never does it just to say "Kiss my a$$" to everyone that said he only belonged to the 155 division.

 

He can, and could've throughout his career, hang in at the WW level, could hang with a lot of MW (thought maybe not the top 5 or so), and has toyed around with heavier people from time to time (including Machida). Although I'm glad a lot of you are now believers, it irritates me to no end to see you talking like you've known this all along and slammed people like myself for ever even mentioning it.

 

Ok, I'm done with my rant now lol. Thanks for dealing with that...

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When people said this...

 

 

 

They were right.

 

I know this is going to come off sounding like a know-it-all, but i'm really just curious...

 

You really don't think he could compete with fitch, alves, kos, hardy, or daley with his stand up being as technical as it is (not as powerful, but better technically), and with the fact that his BJJ would be the best in the division, his takedown defense possibly the best (don't bring up the GSP fight, thats a different level of takedowns than anyone else lol), and the fact that his condition/strength/expolsivness has improved quite a bit?

 

I'm not saying his going to dominate these guys, but i definitely think he competes and the odds would be even as to the outcome with these guys...

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ya i do see some back and forth flip flopping about BJ staying at 155 or going back to 170. I think he should just stay at 155 and clean it out (unless someone beats him) he should Face almost everyone. He beat Stevenson, Sherk, Florian, and Sanchez. Now Edgar is next. others waiting in line are Maynard, Griffin, Pearson, Gomi, Sotiropolous, Guida :( (If he can win matches) If BJ truly will dominate the LW division then that will be his time to decide if going back up to WW is the thing to do or Dana has to sign more competition.

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I know this is going to come off sounding like a know-it-all' date=' but i'm really just curious...

 

You really don't think he could compete with fitch, alves, kos, hardy, or daley...[/quote']

 

You are correct, I don't think he would stand much of a chance against Fitch, Alves and Kos...I've yet to be sold on Hardy and Daley. The welterweight division isn't the same place it was back when Penn was somewhat competitive there. He's just too small.

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You are correct' date=' I don't think he would stand much of a chance against Fitch, Alves and Kos...I've yet to be sold on Hardy and Daley. The welterweight division isn't the same place it was back when Penn was somewhat competitive there. He's just too small.[/quote']

 

 

are you the type that doesn't like bj for his attitude, or do you think that he just doesn't posses the skill/size to do it at that weight class?

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You are correct' date=' I don't think he would stand much of a chance against Fitch, Alves and Kos...I've yet to be sold on Hardy and Daley. The welterweight division isn't the same place it was back when Penn was somewhat competitive there. He's just too small.[/quote']

 

he was never competative at WW hes 1 for 4 at WW

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I think it is his business to do what he wants to do. He is already recognized as the best LW in the world and probably the best LW ever. You can name potential good fights but reallistically not a one of those people really has a shot at dethroning BJ as long as he wants to be there and is committed to his fitness and conditioning. Gomi or Aoki would be big fights just because they have the established worldwide reputations as the top of the LW's, but on paper BJ is better than both of them everywhere, though I think Gomi's Judo and equally good Jits would make for BJ's biggest challenge.

I would like to see BJ transition to WW correctly, with proper strength and conditioning training and gaining lean muscle mass rather than Cheeseburger mass. If he can do that and keep his fitness level where it is now, which is the best it has been in his life, I think he walks through most WW's, has awesome fights with the upper echelon, and gives GSP a much better run than the last time they met.

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True.

 

I stand corrected.

 

most people forget that... yes he was champ when eh begged for a shot against hughes and he won... but it was not really that much differnt from the Serra win over GSP... then he had to fight GPS to get another shot which he was beaten... then GSP was hurt and BJ again begged for a title shot, he was soundly beaten by Hughes... then e comes back again begging for a rematch with GSP... and then he was taken to the wood shed an beat till he couldn't stand anymore

 

 

Penn is not a good WW... he fights at 155 and is solid there... but he would keep is losing record at WW

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he was never competative at WW hes 1 for 4 at WW

 

But this was all against title-level competition. he never faced contenders, or gatekeepers, or new/up-and-comers. 1-4 agains basically champion competition, with one of those loses being argualbe (not going to get all into that stuff) and the other coming to someone he has beaten doesn't make him uncompetitive.

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But this was all against title-level competition. he never faced contenders' date=' or gatekeepers, or new/up-and-comers. 1-4 agains basically champion competition, with one of those loses being argualbe (not going to get all into that stuff) and the other coming to someone he has beaten doesn't make him uncompetitive.[/quote']

 

Not only champion material but two of the most dominate champs the ufc has ever seen.

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most people forget that... yes he was champ when eh begged for a shot against hughes and he won... but it was not really that much differnt from the Serra win over GSP... then he had to fight GPS to get another shot which he was beaten... then GSP was hurt and BJ again begged for a title shot' date=' he was soundly beaten by Hughes... then e comes back again begging for a rematch with GSP... and then he was taken to the wood shed an beat till he couldn't stand anymore

 

 

Penn is not a good WW... he fights at 155 and is solid there... but he would keep is losing record at WW[/quote']

 

Well said.

 

I hate you but this is a very good post.

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But this was all against title-level competition. he never faced contenders' date=' or gatekeepers, or new/up-and-comers. 1-4 agains basically champion competition, with one of those loses being argualbe (not going to get all into that stuff) and the other coming to someone he has beaten doesn't make him uncompetitive.[/quote']

 

To be honest I don't think BJ would even want to be fighting gatekeepers or newbies, if he moves up in weight it's to fight against the top competition the WW division has to offer.

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Not only champion material but two of the most dominate champs the ufc has ever seen.

 

but they were not close fights with his "rematches" he was soundly beaten badly both times

 

 

some BJ nut dumplings like to argue the Split D vs GSP in their first fight... if you watch the fight BJ broke GSPs nose and that was about all he did... he acted as if thats all he had to do to win the fight... he won the first round but he did win any others, the fact that it was a split d shows that a judge just favored BJ he didn't watch the fight

 

 

edit: also keep in mind that the Hughes that beat Penn is not as good as Kos and Fitch are now... BJ would not beat a top 5 WW

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I'm fairly confident that I too could lose to the 2 most dominant UFC champions...does that mean I should be praised for it? Because that's what Penn fans do.

 

No one gets praise for losing. I'm not listing his losses as accomplishments but at the same time losing to two of the ufc most dominate champions while fighting above your weight is no shame on a fighter.

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Well said.

 

I hate you but this is a very good post.

 

Lol. So i'm not going to sit here and research the damn database or anything, but i take it you and hizoka are not part of the group of people i was talking about that went from saying don't go to WW, to saying he needs to go to WW asap...?

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Lol. So i'm not going to sit here and research the damn database or anything' date=' but i take it you and hizoka are not part of the group of people i was talking about that went from saying don't go to WW, to saying he needs to go to WW asap...?[/quote']

 

no i am not stupid

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but they were not close fights with his "rematches" he was soundly beaten badly both times

 

 

some BJ nut dumplings like to argue the Split D vs GSP in their first fight... if you watch the fight BJ broke GSPs nose and that was about all he did... he acted as if thats all he had to do to win the fight... he won the first round but he did win any others' date=' the fact that it was a split d shows that a judge just favored BJ he didn't watch the fight[/quote']

 

I never said Bj should have won the first fight but it was a very competitive fight. Now obviously the 2nd fight vs Gsp was a absolute rape but the rematch with Hughes was great until lazy **** Bj gasses and broke a rib. I'm a huge Bj fan but hes to small for ww not to mention the fact that he has only started training like a real fighter in his last two fights.

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no wrong either... BJ has shown that he struggles against people who are above average wrestlers... guess what WW is full of wrestlers...

 

we can agree to disagree. i have a feeling one of us will be proven wrong by the end of the year anyways. no way he continues toying with these guys at LW, he'll get bored. and no way he fights anyone at WW that isn't in the top 5 cuz it wouldn't be worth it to him

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I never said Bj should have won the first fight but it was a very competitive fight. Now obviously the 2nd fight vs Gsp was a absolute rape but the rematch with Hughes was great until lazy **** Bj gasses and broke a rib. I'm a huge Bj fan but hes to small for ww not to mention the fact that he has only started training like a real fighter in his last two fights.

 

hes still not training like a real fighter because hes staying on that rock... BJs ego will not allow him to train with people who are better then he is at differnet aspects of the game, because of that he might improve his cardio, but his skillset is still the same as it was several years ago... hes just got a huge amount of raw talent

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I think people call for BJ to go up to 170 because they want to see him in a fight that truly tests him. Same reason for all the people that call for GSP to go to 185 and Silva to fight at 205.

 

These 3 are so dominant in their respective divisions that it doesn't seem to matter who the UFC lines up for them it becomes a forgone conclusion in most fans minds who will win the fight.

 

Bj vs Edgar beatdown train arriving.

 

BJ vs Thiago Alves or Koscheck, immediate interest. Has good fight all over it.

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most people forget that... yes he was champ when eh begged for a shot against hughes and he won... but it was not really that much differnt from the Serra win over GSP... then he had to fight GSP to get another shot which he was beaten... then GSP was hurt and BJ again begged for a title shot' date=' he was soundly beaten by Hughes... then e comes back again begging for a rematch with GSP... and then he was taken to the wood shed an beat till he couldn't stand anymore

 

Penn is not a good WW... he fights at 155 and is solid there... but he would keep is losing record at WW[/quote']

 

BJ was not soundly beaten by Hughes. BJ broke a rib in that fight, he was dominating up until that point. And the decision against George could have easily gone either way.

 

Clearly from your posts you're not a big fan of BJ, but you can't deny that the guy can hang with anyone.

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hes still not training like a real fighter because hes staying on that rock... BJs ego will not allow him to train with people who are better then he is at differnet aspects of the game' date=' because of that he might improve his cardio, but his skillset is still the same as it was several years ago... hes just got a huge amount of raw talent[/quote']

 

His skill set might not be improving but honestly it doesn't need to. Bj is imo top 5 in mma in boxing, bjj, and take down defense. His strength, speed, explosiveness, and endurance are all improving and in the past those have been the weak spots opponents have exploited in Bj.

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hes still not training like a real fighter because hes staying on that rock... BJs ego will not allow him to train with people who are better then he is at differnet aspects of the game' date=' because of that he might improve his cardio, but his skillset is still the same as it was several years ago... hes just got a huge amount of raw talent[/quote']

 

BJ is training in California, last I checked they don't call that the rock.

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we can agree to disagree. i have a feeling one of us will be proven wrong by the end of the year anyways. no way he continues toying with these guys at LW' date=' he'll get bored. and no way he fights anyone at WW that isn't in the top 5 cuz it wouldn't be worth it to him[/quote']

 

he will beg for something he has not earned... thats the story of BJs life... cry until you get your way... hes never earned a title shot in his life he was just thrown into them... the shots he EARNED he lost. if you do not belive me look at his record...

 

he won 4 fights leading to his fight shot at the UFC LW title he was beaten by Jens Pulver then.... then he won 2 fights to try for another shot at the title vs Uno, that fight was a draw... then he was tossed in to Matt hughes after being out of the UFC for nearly a year... then DW told him to take a hike because he demanded too much money... 2 years later he comes back to fight GSP for a shot at the title and loses... GSP get hurt so he begs for another shot at the title, he loses again.... then he wins the LW title then begs for yet another shot at the WW title and loses yet again...

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I think people call for BJ to go up to 170 because they want to see him in a fight that truly tests him.

 

Fighting someone at a disadvantage is not truly testing yourself. Thats like saying your not a true champ unless you can beat people with one hand. And if you think fighting smaller than your opponent inst a disadvantage your special.

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BJ was not soundly beaten by Hughes. BJ broke a rib in that fight' date=' he was dominating up until that point. And the decision against George could have easily gone either way.

 

Clearly from your posts you're not a big fan of BJ, but you can't deny that the guy can hang with anyone.[/quote']

 

the fight with geroge could not of gone the other way even if you were watching with your eyes closed... BJ won the first round then was soundly beaten the other 2

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I'm fairly confident that I too could lose to the 2 most dominant UFC champions...does that mean I should be praised for it? Because that's what Penn fans do.

 

Could you hold belts in two different weight classes?

Can you recieve your BB in BJJ in only three years and go on to win the BJJ BB world championship a week later?

Aside from holding various records in the LW division he was also competitive in three other weight classes. And has never been knocked down in a fight.

 

This is what I praise Penn for. Not for his losses.

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he will beg for something he has not earned... thats the story of BJs life... cry until you get your way... hes never earned a title shot in his life he was just thrown into them... the shots he EARNED he lost. if you do not belive me look at his record...

 

he won 4 fights leading to his fight shot at the UFC LW title he was beaten by Jens Pulver then.... then he won 2 fights to try for another shot at the title vs Uno' date=' that fight was a draw... then he was tossed in to Matt hughes after being out of the UFC for nearly a year... then DW told him to take a hike because he demanded too much money... 2 years later he comes back to fight GSP for a shot at the title and loses... GSP get hurt so he begs for another shot at the title, he loses again.... then he wins the LW title then begs for yet another shot at the WW title and loses yet again...[/quote']

 

Thats in the past, and that is usually the case with every fighter at some point. GSP didn't earn a rematch with Serra, but had one handed to him in his own backyard none the less. Silva got one after beating Leben. Lesner got his due to lack of other options at the time, not cuz he earned it. Really, Machida is the only current belt holder that worked his way through a division currently to get his belt.

 

And just because these guys didn't win 7 or 8 fights to get a title shot doesn't bother you, so why should bj's?

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no wrong either... BJ has shown that he struggles against people who are above average wrestlers... guess what WW is full of wrestlers...

 

I guess no one told Sherk, Stevenson, Sanchez about BJ's weakness for good wrestlers.

 

BJ has struggled with 2 of the consensus best wrestlers in the history of the sport and 2 of the most dominANT champions of all time, all while being in horrible shape and outweighed by 10-15 lbs on fight nights. And at least 2 of the times he has "struggled" was clearly after controlling the early portion of the fight and after his crap cardio was gone. To say he struggles with wrestlers is ludicrous and illinformed.

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Could you hold belts in two different weight classes?

Can you recieve your BB in BJJ in only three years and go on to win the BJJ BB world championship a week later?

Aside from holding various records in the LW division he was also competitive in three other weight classes. And has never been knocked down in a fight.

 

This is what I praise Penn for. Not for his losses.

 

yeah his BB is also something he begged for... he asked teh gracies for one before they thought he earned it... he he left them so someone else could hand it to him...

 

 

 

and before you harp on him winning the World Championship in BJJ keep in mind Matt Serra who did earn his BB from the Gracies Subbed a 2 time World BJJ champion in under 2 minutes

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ya i do see some back and forth flip flopping about BJ staying at 155 or going back to 170. I think he should just stay at 155 and clean it out (unless someone beats him) he should Face almost everyone. He beat Stevenson' date=' Sherk, Florian, and Sanchez. Now Edgar is next. others waiting in line are Maynard, Griffin, Pearson, Gomi, Sotiropolous, Guida :( (If he can win matches) If BJ truly will dominate the LW division then that will be his time to decide if going back up to WW is the thing to do or Dana has to sign more competition.[/quote']

 

 

 

OR...Just bring in some guys from WEC ..

 

I reall want to see Faber vs BJ for the Fans I would love this one even tho Faber is 145. I imagine he could gain 10 pounds or more

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I guess no one told Sherk' date=' Stevenson, Sanchez about BJ's weakness for good wrestlers.

 

BJ has struggled with 2 of the consensus best wrestlers in the history of the sport and 2 of the most dominANT champions of all time, all while being in horrible shape and outweighed by 10-15 lbs on fight nights. And at least 2 of the times he has "struggled" was clearly after controlling the early portion of the fight and after his crap cardio was gone. To say he struggles with wrestlers is ludicrous and illinformed.[/quote']

 

Sherk Stevenson and Sanchez are not the caliber of wrestler that is in the WW Div

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And just to make it clear, everyone seems to think that by saying he can compete at WW that means you are saying he can compete with GSP. THAT IS NOT WHAT I"M GETTING AT. Personally, I'm obviously a Penn fan, but i'll be the first to tell you i think he lost the first two fights rightfully, and i don't think he could beat him at the moment. But that does not mean he couldn't compete with him, and that does not mean he couldn't compete with everyone else, and possible win, in that division

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OR...Just bring in some guys from WEC ..

 

I reall want to see Faber vs BJ for the Fans I would love this one even tho Faber is 145. I imagine he could gain 10 pounds or more

 

Dude, you seen Faber lately? If that dude packs on ten more pounds of muscle he won't be able move his limbs. He's getting all the athleticism he possibly can outta his frame at 145. Sure, he could cut less weight and do it, cuz i think he cuts from around 165, but that wouldn't be a good career move

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yeah his BB is also something he begged for... he asked teh gracies for one before they thought he earned it... he he left them so someone else could hand it to him...

 

and before you harp on him winning the World Championship in BJJ keep in mind Matt Serra who did earn his BB from the Gracies Subbed a 2 time World BJJ champion in under 2 minutes

 

No one is denying Matt Serra's Jiu Jitsu. I know that's credible, but the only reason any of the Gracie's talk anything bad about Penn is because he took the fight with Renzo. Up until that point all Ralph was doing was praising him. Ralph even commented on his Jiu Jitsu becoming "Amazing." There's an interview where he talks about it.

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Dude' date=' you seen Faber lately? If that dude packs on ten more pounds of muscle he won't be able move his limbs. He's getting all the athleticism he possibly can outta his frame at 145. Sure, he could cut less weight and do it, cuz i think he cuts from around 165, but that wouldn't be a good career move[/quote']

 

Yea I seen him latley.last fight.. . If hes allready at 165, I guess he wouldnt have to loose that much weight then. I just would want to see this fight over Edgar because Faber is a good all around fighter and hes a fan fav. besides he knows how to go 5 rounds

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