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Toney: "Dana White's first offer was a joke"


TimmyTuppence

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UFC = Cheapo's when it comes to paying its fighters...

 

You say that, but it's the only way to do it. If they're gonna up their payments to fighters, then that means they'll have to cut a lot of fighters in order to keep within their budget, which means less fights and less cards. The UFC are rich, but they can't afford to be stupid with their money.

 

As for Toney, I think he actually needs to prove himself in MMA before he starts demanding big money. If Dana offered him $10,000, then fair enough. But if Toney's asking for $100,000+ then I'm sure Dana will tell him to get stuffed and go get some wins elsewhere first.

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UFC = Cheapo's when it comes to paying its fighters...

 

I'm glad they are in this case. I'd much rather they directed the millions this guy probably wanted to young dedicated MMA up and comers so they can keep training and improving. Not some old boxer looking for a spectacle payout because he has all the Boxing PPV draw of paint drying.

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I'm glad they are in this case. I'd much rather they directed the millions this guy probably wanted to young dedicated MMA up and comers so they can keep training and improving. Not some old boxer looking for a spectacle payout because he has all the Boxing PPV draw of paint drying.

 

Yeah I think his last fight wasn't even a pay per view, it was on Fox Sports net. What does the guy expect. I think it would be very disrespectful to pay Toney more than a proven MMA fighter and certainly not as much as a champion. But from a business standpoint he wil bring some draw to a card.

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I agree' date=' at the stage the sport is at now I think that Champs should be getting at least a Mil per fight from the UFC plus sponser money.[/quote']

 

I don't think anybody should get a Mil per fight Im a fighter myself and all of that money is not needed a half a Mil would be just fine. Boxers are overpaid and it leads to a huge downfall I think the UFC is doing a great job.

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You say that' date=' but it's the only way to do it. If they're gonna up their payments to fighters, then that means they'll have to cut a lot of fighters in order to keep within their budget, which means less fights and less cards. The UFC are rich, but they can't afford to be stupid with their money.

 

As for Toney, I think he actually needs to prove himself in MMA before he starts demanding big money. If Dana offered him $10,000, then fair enough. But if Toney's asking for $100,000+ then I'm sure Dana will tell him to get stuffed and go get some wins elsewhere first.[/quote']

 

+1

Just because boxing is over payed doesn't mean you should come into another sport and demand a bunch of money just because of who you are. Which I'm sure a lot of UFC fans have no clue of.

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http://www.mmabay.co.uk/Story%20A%2000405.html

 

I wonder what the offer was' date=' if you ask me he should get about $100,000 to $150,000 for his first fight, you cant pay him as much as the champions because he has no experience in MMA but I would say his name alone makes him worth that much.[/quote']

 

So how much does Fatty weigh in at these days?

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I don't think anybody should get a Mil per fight Im a fighter myself and all of that money is not needed a half a Mil would be just fine. Boxers are overpaid and it leads to a huge downfall I think the UFC is doing a great job.

 

+1

 

Everyone complains about boxing but fail to realize boxing's problems are due to financial things more than anything else. Dana has made it clear that in order to keep live event ticket and PPV prices manageable, UFC fighters will never make what a boxer can make per fight. What fans don't understand is that there is maybe 10 Boxers ( and that is a stretch) that pull 7 figures per fight on a consistant basis. Very few will get one big payday fight in their career, and most struggle in obscurity for the most part. Over a career, the middle of the road UFC guys stand to make lots more money than their boxing counterparts. The best UFC fighters should have longer careers than mostof the best boxers, so making half the money per fight, but having twice as many fights at that level means in the big picture the UFC fighter will have a longer career and more money making oppurtunities. Smart people know that long term finances are always better than short.

 

Anyway, I am sure Toney has set some insane, never before paid out ammount in order to give himself a reason to back out of earlier statements and proclamations. He will never fight in the UFC, count on it.

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I didn't really know anything about James Toney before there were talks of him possibly being signed by the UFC. From what I've read about him I couldn't care less whether or not the UFC ever signs him, there's no way he'd ever be a top contender, especially this late in his career.

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Seems like Toney like to talk a lot. He was calling out the Klitscho's and they ignored him so I guess he thought he would give MMA a try. I didn't see his last fight, but the last few years he has looked so out of shape one fight against a can is not going to change my opinion on a guy.

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I didn't really know anything about James Toney before there were talks of him possibly being signed by the UFC. From what I've read about him I couldn't care less whether or not the UFC ever signs him' date=' there's no way he'd ever be a top contender, especially this late in his career.[/quote']

 

Actually James "Lights Out" Toney (Sorry Chris Lytle, he had it first) is one hell of a fighter, and a multi division champion. If he could just pick up just a little TD defense and greco clinchwork , his hands could carry him pretty far and it would be exciting to see. That being said at this point in his career and life he would never be a champ, but could make for a good ticket draw.

But then again MMA is already full of big mouths and jag-offs just like him so nevermind, we definitely don't need him.

 

I'd actually like to see Michael Moorer fight MMA. He did do a little college wrestling.

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No matter what he gets paid, if they actually come to an agreement, he's gonna get his a** handed to him anyway! Boxing is WAY different than MMA. There are plenty of guys who have great hands & have trained for years in MMA and they still get taken down. Toney will be flat on his back inside of a minute, getting elbows on his face.

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I don't see why he's demanding such a huge payment anyway.

 

1) He's not as well known as he thinks. I know I'm not the biggest boxing fan but I know a lot of fighters and I've never heard of him. I know there are some on this forum that would think I'm crazy because of that, but I know a lot of others who haven't heard of him either.

 

2) He'll never compete at the top end of the division. Any fighters with any type of ground game are just gonna take him down and either pound him out or sub him.

 

3) He wouldn't sell PPVs. Guys like Brock and Anderson get high payments because they sell PPVs. They can make an otherwise pretty average PPV look good by appearing on it. I can't see the majority of MMA fans thinking that Toney's debut is much of a big deal.

 

If he really wants to be part of this sport, then he'll accept that he's not gonna earn huge money from the start. I don't think he does wanna be part of this sport, and if we never see him in the octagon, then I'm not that fussed.

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Jamey Toney has 83 bouts (72w 6l 3d 2nc), he does so many local shows and non ppv events that i cant see him being used to making big paydays.he's probably tryin to hype his self up with all the trash talk to reach the casual fan. as for his skills, if they can find a victory for kimbo, they'll be able to find at least 5 for toney including kimbo before he really gets tested ( if they choose to go that route). either way if he gets signed or not i dont really care,i just hope after his first KO of some can they throw him right in the fire, and dont just hand pick oppents for him

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UFC = Cheapo's when it comes to paying its fighters...

 

UFC pays based on fight contracts and the level of fighter in the divisions competition. of course a top tier 5 LW-HW fighter is getting paid more, of course the champ gets paid the most, why would someone below the champ get paid more? only if he has MASS amounts of sponsors, which once again are only given based on the popularity and level of fighter.

 

not to mention each division is as packed as they come in mma competition

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The guy previously KTFO Holyfield. But I think he should accept the initial offer of 10,000. That price plus some win bonus of 5,000 then if he could won the KO of the Night bonus of 50,000, he would go home with aroung 65,000 in his pocket, not bad at all. Also probably Dana is just testing his willingness & dedication to MMA initially. Remember what Dana said to Brock when Brock initially approach him to join the UFC, I think Dana's offer to Brock's first fight is also less than 100,000.

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This fight would only be a draw based on its freakshow qualities. People always like to speculate how a top tier boxer would fare in the MMA world. That's why there was so much hype about Mayweather stating that he would destroy MMA fighters. If this fight was hyped and marketed correctly and he was put in with a heavy handed one-dimensional striker like Yvel they would likely get PPV buys. The important thing is that Dana should pay him based on PPV proceeds and a winning bonus, as the better he hypes the fight and if he wins the more he makes. That is the only way to give him the opportunity to make some cash.

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I'm not that into boxing but I have never heard of the guy. I don't really think that he would pull in a significant additional amount of PPV buys. I would be interested to see how he does though. If he really wants to fight in the UFC he should get some MMA fights under his belt first or take a small amount of money to start off.

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I don't think anybody should get a Mil per fight Im a fighter myself and all of that money is not needed a half a Mil would be just fine. Boxers are overpaid and it leads to a huge downfall I think the UFC is doing a great job.

 

Im not saying it should get silly like boxing, but as the UFC grows so should the fighters wages, it makes sense they are the ones who provide the entertainment so they should be rewarded. Im not an expert but at the moment I would say about 10% of the UFC's profits go on fighters wages, it should be more than that in my opinion, but like I said im no expert.

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I am shocked that so many people don't know who James Toney is. I have never been a fan of the guy but he has been around and been champion in four divisions. He is over the hill and overrated but still he has fought a lot of good boxers. Guess not a lot of love for boxing here. With that being said I stand by my earlier posts and say Toney doesn't deserve to make as much as a top 5 guy.

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The way I look at it is what would make the ufc more money, a fight like Kimbo vs Toney or a fight like Mir vs Carwin who are top 5 no doubt, I can guarentee you Kimbo vs Toney would make the UFC a great deal more, so although they are not even close to the same skill level in MMA I would say they deserve to get paid as much as the top 5 which if im not mistaken is about $100,000 a fight. How much is Kimbo paid does anybody know?

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The way I look at it is what would make the ufc more money' date=' a fight like Kimbo vs Toney or a fight like Mir vs Carwin who are top 5 no doubt, I can guarentee you Kimbo vs Toney would make the UFC a great deal more, so although they are not even close to the same skill level in MMA I would say they deserve to get paid as much as the top 5 which if im not mistaken is about $100,000 a fight. How much is Kimbo paid does anybody know?[/quote']

 

Which is why I and a lot of people probably hope it doesn't happen. Good for the UFC bottom line and good for MMA as a sport are not always the same thing.

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I agree this is true' date=' but good for the UFC and good for the fighters pockets should always be the same thing.[/quote']

 

Maybe, but if the UFC and MMA are ever going to reach the mainstream status, which will generate exponentially more money for the fighters, they need to avoid sideshow crap like this. It reeks of Pro Wrestling style promotion.

 

I;m not against someone trying to crossover. I'm just of the opinion they should have to embark upon their MMA career like almost every other fighter. Starting off in lesser circuits and making their way to the big stages with wins.

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Maybe' date=' but if the UFC and MMA are ever going to reach the mainstream status, which will generate exponentially more money for the fighters, they need to avoid sideshow crap like this. It reeks of Pro Wrestling style promotion.

 

I;m not against someone trying to crossover. I'm just of the opinion they should have to embark upon their MMA career like almost every other fighter. Starting off in lesser circuits and making their way to the big stages with wins.[/quote']

 

Now that i think about it I dont remember the last time someone was in the UFC with a 0-0 record, I agree though they should avoid putting on these sort of shows, Lesnar was bad enough but at least he had a fight or two.

I think Toneys main goal is to prove Boxers are tougher than UFC fighters he has no intention of making a career, they should just stick him in there with JDS to prove a point.

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http://www.mmabay.co.uk/Story%20A%2000405.html

 

I wonder what the offer was' date=' if you ask me he should get about $100,000 to $150,000 for his first fight, you cant pay him as much as the champions because he has no experience in MMA but I would say his name alone makes him worth that much.[/quote']

 

i hope it was no more than $ 20-25,000. it's laughable that dana is even considering the idea. i hope he's just doing it to humour the punch drunk old man.

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For the money that the UFC brings in just off events, not to mention all the product they sell, the on demand and hugh audience that has been drawn in I think they HIGHLY underpay most of the fighters.

 

It's a joke what Lesnar made compared to Mir in the first fight and Lesnar lost. It was BS. I understand that it's a business but lets keep in mind that these fighters made this business what it is and Dana White is a very overpaid front man.

 

I think the reason Fedor ignored the UFC's offer is because of Dana White and how he pays the other fighters.

 

I'm not saying communism is okay but when some fighters are making 100k a fight compared to 5k, 8k... it's a bit ridicilious.

 

The money should be divided somewhat equally. Not right down but middle but then again not the way it is... I guess I'm going on and on but it's not right.

 

Just like Strikeforce's last event... Scott Smith only took home 55k after a win bonus and Cung Le took home 150k in defeat.

 

There is something wrong with that picture and the UFC plays that card much worse.

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Anybody who doesn't know who James Toney is, is a fight noob. Yes, he's over the hill now, certainly by boxing standards - but let's get a reality check here donkeys:

 

Toney is 72-6 with 44 knockouts. The guy is a champion in 4 weight classes. Fighter of the Year in 1991 and 2003. Do you know what kind of PPV draw he'd bring from the hard boxing fan? Let's not forget what an even older Ray Mercer did to a Top 20 HW, by knocking him out in 9 seconds.

 

Toney is a beast, and could light up anyone at HW. Regardless of his lack of MMA training. He's got an amazing chin and hits like a train.

 

I don't know how much Toney wanted, so I can't say who's in the wrong here, but for the clowns who don't know Lights Out, get a clue.

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Brock wasn't a broken down has been when he joined the roster. Toney isn't even competitive in his own sport anymore and wouldn't know a submission if it broke his leg=)

 

I hope DW doesn't sign this clown.

 

Cindy

 

I never said he was, my point was that Brock didnt really have to prove himself before earning big $$, and as broken down as Toney is he would still probably out strike most of the UFC's HW division so if he has been working on his takedown defence I dont see why he cant give it a shot. I know I will be interested to see what happens, and I wont lie there is nothing I would like to see more than Toney getting slammed on his head and his face elbowed in to the canvas, it would be worth it just to hear his excuses afterwards.

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Brock wasn't a broken down has been when he joined the roster. Toney isn't even competitive in his own sport anymore and wouldn't know a submission if it broke his leg=)

 

I hope DW doesn't sign this clown.

 

Cindy

 

There are many one-dimensional HWs - in fact, most are. Toney is a younger-than-Couture with 5 times the fight experience, and 20 times the striking ability. Is he demanding too much? Who knows - is he a legit man to put in the cage against any HW? Absolutely. He'd be a big PPV draw, and could stylistically be matched up perfectly against guys like Kongo, Cigano, Carwin.....

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I don't think Toney knows how much MMA fighters get paid or something... He should get' date=' if he wins, which he won't unless he gets one good shot to the head, $60k, and when he loses, $30k[/quote']

 

I cant see him signing any deal for those numbers, he has achieved to much in his boxing career to sign any deal like that, I think $100,000 would be fair to start with.

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Look, UFC cheats most of its fighters. It does. I don't think anyone should be getting like a mil or anything, but no one other then the top tiered fighters are making decent money from the fights alone. Take a look at some of the payouts. 20 grand, 10 grand, to come fight on worldwide events. Keep in mind that these fighters have to pay for trainers, people who help them come up etc. I mean its a big deal when a fighter can train full time cause they can afford it in this sport. At this level, thats just crazy to me. They come and put on a show for the UFC, fight and risk getting hurt, all the while taking a measly paycheck from UFC.

 

I am not talking about anyone making over a hundred grand per fight, that to me is what they are paying their top tiered fighters. Just irks me to think that Dana is sitting in his mansion, meanwhile alot of the fighters who come fight can't even afford to train full time.

 

Disagree, thats fine. But lets be honest at what level the UFC is at. Its at the top in this sport, putting on massive events. It can afford to pay its fighters more.

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Look' date=' UFC cheats most of its fighters. It does. I don't think anyone should be getting like a mil or anything, but no one other then the top tiered fighters are making decent money from the fights alone. Take a look at some of the payouts. 20 grand, 10 grand, to come fight on worldwide events. Keep in mind that these fighters have to pay for trainers, people who help them come up etc. I mean its a big deal when a fighter can train full time cause they can afford it in this sport. At this level, thats just crazy to me. They come and put on a show for the UFC, fight and risk getting hurt, all the while taking a measly paycheck from UFC.

 

I am not talking about anyone making over a hundred grand per fight, that to me is what they are paying their top tiered fighters. Just irks me to think that Dana is sitting in his mansion, meanwhile alot of the fighters who come fight can't even afford to train full time.

 

Disagree, thats fine. But lets be honest at what level the UFC is at. Its at the top in this sport, putting on massive events. It can afford to pay its fighters more.[/quote']

 

But oddly enough, Zuffa is 450 million in the hole. I can see why they are so cheap now. It's because they're failing.

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Anybody who doesn't know who James Toney is' date=' is a fight noob. Yes, he's over the hill now, certainly by boxing standards - but let's get a reality check here donkeys:

 

Toney is 72-6 with 44 knockouts. The guy is a champion in 4 weight classes. Fighter of the Year in 1991 and 2003. Do you know what kind of PPV draw he'd bring from the hard boxing fan? Let's not forget what an even older Ray Mercer did to a Top 20 HW, by knocking him out in 9 seconds.

 

Toney is a beast, and could light up anyone at HW. Regardless of his lack of MMA training. He's got an amazing chin and hits like a train.

 

I don't know how much Toney wanted, so I can't say who's in the wrong here, but for the clowns who don't know Lights Out, get a clue.[/quote']

 

 

 

 

Anybody who doesn't know who James Toney is, is a fight noob.

 

Not sure folks are disputing any knowledge of his existence... he simply is no longer relavent to his own sport, let alone this one.

 

 

Yes, he's over the hill now, certainly by boxing standards,,,

 

Yep... and he's too broken down AND inexperienced for the UFC.

 

 

Toney is a beast, and could light up anyone at HW. Regardless of his lack of MMA training. He's got an amazing chin and hits like a train.

 

LOL! He was gassing out while stalking DW in the media 2 weeks ago in an effort to get his mug on camera and when he finally did he was sweating like a ***** in church.

 

Then he embarrassed himself when DW asked him if he knew submissions-- his response was something awesome like, "I barely know addition, let alone submissions!"

 

Then DW asked him if he knew how to check kicks-- he gave another awesome response, something like, "'yeah, I know all of them... side leg check kick..."

 

Just ROFLMAO!!! He would have nothing more than a punchers chance of winning because he has zero ground game and ANY opponent would simply take him down and unleash some vicious ground and pound for a TKO victory over a dude that should have never been inside the Octagon to begin with.

 

I don't know how much Toney wanted, so I can't say who's in the wrong here, but for the clowns who don't know Lights Out, get a clue.

 

I'm sure MANY of us know WTF James Toney is... we simply don't care enough about him to see him in the UFC.

 

*shrugs*

 

Cindy

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Look' date=' UFC cheats most of its fighters. It does. I don't think anyone should be getting like a mil or anything, but no one other then the top tiered fighters are making decent money from the fights alone. Take a look at some of the payouts. 20 grand, 10 grand, to come fight on worldwide events. Keep in mind that these fighters have to pay for trainers, people who help them come up etc. I mean its a big deal when a fighter can train full time cause they can afford it in this sport. At this level, thats just crazy to me. They come and put on a show for the UFC, fight and risk getting hurt, all the while taking a measly paycheck from UFC.

 

I am not talking about anyone making over a hundred grand per fight, that to me is what they are paying their top tiered fighters. Just irks me to think that Dana is sitting in his mansion, meanwhile alot of the fighters who come fight can't even afford to train full time.

 

Disagree, thats fine. But lets be honest at what level the UFC is at. Its at the top in this sport, putting on massive events. It can afford to pay its fighters more.[/quote']

 

What you say is true but if they pay the lower tier fighters more they will have to pay the higher tier fighters more than a hundred grand. It is a joke what some of them earn though, the UFC should have a minimum pay of about $30,000 imo.

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I never said he was' date=' my point was that Brock didnt really have to prove himself before earning big $$, and as broken down as Toney is he would still probably out strike most of the UFC's HW division so if he has been working on his takedown defence I dont see why he cant give it a shot. I know I will be interested to see what happens, and I wont lie there is nothing I would like to see more than Toney getting slammed on his head and his face elbowed in to the canvas, it would be worth it just to hear his excuses afterwards.[/quote']

 

 

 

Timmy,

 

Brock has an amazing wrestling pedigree, youth, previous MMA training, the ability to sell tickets and was never a has been in professional wrestling. His big bucks were a direct result of these factors, none of which Toney has.

 

Yes, Toney is a striker but this isn't boxing... he isn't even close to being able to put two art forms together and compete-- Brock was.

 

Toney hasn't been working on squat that's MMA related because he didn't know what a submission was and he couldn't even answer how to effectively counter a leg kick. He can't talk the talk so HTF can he walk the walk???

 

I would have no problem with him going on TUF and trying to prove himself there just like Kimbo and the former pro football players did. That would be the right path, if he's interested.

 

Cindy

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