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How would Prime Wanderlei do in todays UFC?


So_Amazing

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We all saw what a non prime Rampage could do to Wandy in their second fight. I think the now prime Rampage would have still beaten him.

 

What I saw was Rampage hanging in the ropes sleeping. Twice. Non Prime ? Don't think so. He was a beast in PRIDE and hungrier for the title than he is today.

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What I saw was Rampage hanging in the ropes sleeping. Twice. Non Prime ? Don't think so.

 

Rampage was winning the second fight and made a mistake. And yes he is in his prime right now, he switched trainers, and he was working on his boxing when he came to the UFC. We all saw the results.

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Rampage was winning the second fight and made a mistake. And yes he is in his prime right now' date=' he switched trainers, and he was working on his boxing when he came to the UFC. We all saw the results.[/quote']

Don't get me wrong, I still think Wanderlei would win the man is pure heart, Rampage is not hungry anymore (At least I think so). Tough one think could play a major factor in the Fight, actually two: Rampage adpted well to UFC rules and the Octagon but Wandeco didn't.

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Don't get me wrong' date=' I still think Wanderlei would win the man is pure heart, Rampage is not hungry anymore (At least I think so). Tough one think could play a major factor in the Fight, actually two: Rampage adpted well to UFC rules and the Octagon but Wandeco didn't.[/quote']

 

Oh I forgot about the rules! Ok agree to disagree time before we can't be friends.lol Rampage would win at UFC rules. Wandy at Pride rules. Agree.

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Oh I forgot about the rules! Ok agree to disagree time before we can't be friends.lol Rampage would win at UFC rules. Wandy at Pride rules. Agree.

haha

Man, I consider everyone here a buddy until they start Stupi.d Trolling (Different from Smart Trolling like AK). This is just an argument. This is why we have forums. I sign on that. Maybe in an Ideal world Wandy will come back to 205 and his prime and maybe we will have a 4 one.

 

I forgot one think too. Wandy vs Shogun. That would be insane. Pride Wandy vs Pride Shogun.

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rampage was not winning the seconed fight lmfao. you need to open your eyes.

 

Rampage rocked Wandy, and had ground control, the second was a little closer but I had Wandy winning the second by a little. But this is just my opinion. You may see it differently.

 

The second fight can be considered even.

 

But now Rampage is better. Far better.

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Rampage rocked Wandy' date=' and had ground control, the second was a little closer but I had Wandy winning the second by a little. But this is just my opinion. You may see it differently.

 

The second fight can be considered even.

 

But now Rampage is better. Far better.[/quote']

i dont even think it was close in the standup dept. sure rampage got wandy down and LnP him but he didnt do any real damage. Wandy was just a killer. anyone see his first fight against cro cop where they had special rules? that was probably the most strategic fight plan iv ever seen wandy use. IMO he outstruck cro cop in that match but nothing is official because there were no judges. they agreed that if it went the distance it would be considered a draw.

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I'm all honesty, I feel he would probably do about as well as he's doing. I don't think he's fallen off nearly as much as some people like to believe.

People need to realise, that the competition is MUCH tougher in this day and age. When Wandy was bulldozing people back in Pride, he wasn't exactly fighting guys of today's calibre. His toughest opponents were Hendo, Rampage, Cro Cop, Arona and Mark Hunt.

 

You also need to realise, that there are some big differences between Pride and the UFC. Aside from the rule changes, Pride was also in the business of protecting their big fighters. When Rampage had Wandy on the mat, that would NOT have been stood up in the UFC. You could clearly see that Rampage was starting to get Wandy's game. He understood how to beat him. I predicted a Rampage victory when they had their fight in the UFC. I didn't see the crazy KO coming, though.

 

Bottom line, is that Wanderlei is STILL the same fighter that he was in Pride. That's his big problem. He's slowly starting to evolve, and if he can adapt and raise his game to the level that the new blood is on, he can be a factor again.

 

Don't get me wrong.. I love Wandy. This is in NO WAY a mean-spirited post about him. It's just the truth, as I see it. Other people will have other opinions, but this is just what I believe.

The competition that he was destroying back in the Pride days, wouldn't cut it AT ALL in today's UFC. The ones that have adapted, and also gave him some of his toughest fights, are the ones that are still relevant.

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I'm all honesty' date=' I feel he would probably do about as well as he's doing. I don't think he's fallen off nearly as much as some people like to believe.

People need to realise, that the competition is MUCH tougher in this day and age. When Wandy was bulldozing people back in Pride, he wasn't exactly fighting guys of today's calibre. His toughest opponents were Hendo, Rampage, Cro Cop, Arona and Mark Hunt.

 

You also need to realise, that there are some big differences between Pride and the UFC. Aside from the rule changes, Pride was also in the business of protecting their big fighters. When Rampage had Wandy on the mat, that would NOT have been stood up in the UFC. You could clearly see that Rampage was starting to get Wandy's game. He understood how to beat him. I predicted a Rampage victory when they had their fight in the UFC. I didn't see the crazy KO coming, though.

 

Bottom line, is that Wanderlei is STILL the same fighter that he was in Pride. That's his big problem. He's slowly starting to evolve, and if he can adapt and raise his game to the level that the new blood is on, he can be a factor again.

 

Don't get me wrong.. I love Wandy. This is in NO WAY a mean-spirited post about him. It's just the truth, as I see it. Other people will have other opinions, but this is just what I believe.

The competition that he was destroying back in the Pride days, wouldn't cut it AT ALL in today's UFC. The ones that have adapted, and also gave him some of his toughest fights, are the ones that are still relevant.[/quote']

you couldnt be more wrong dude. ANYBODY who watched wandy during pride can see that he has slowed down. and that he isnt the axe murderer anymore. his hand speed isnt the same and he isnt as hungry simple as that. seriously bro im not arguing for the sake of arguing here. wandy has slowed down ALOT. not to mention you left good names of his list of oppnents. wandy has one of the toughest fight lists ever. ill make a list if you want and i dare you to find one that is tougher. the guy has had over 40 fights. of course he isnt as hungry or as dominate as he used to be. why dont you understand that?

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you couldnt be more wrong dude. ANYBODY who watched wandy during pride can see that he has slowed down. and that he isnt the axe murderer anymore. his hand speed isnt the same and he isnt as hungry simple as that. seriously bro im not arguing for the sake of arguing here. wandy has slowed down ALOT. not to mention you left good names of his list of oppnents. wandy has one of the toughest fight lists ever. ill make a list if you want and i dare you to find one that is tougher. the guy has had over 40 fights. of course he isnt as hungry or as dominate as he used to be. why dont you understand that?

 

I'll agree that he's not as ferocious as he once was, but I think that's due to him being KO'd numerous times in his last 7 or 8 fights. He's definitely a little more tentative, and can you blame him?

I know his fight history, but feel free to post it so that many others can see it. I also don't think I'd have too difficult of a time at finding somebody with a tougher list of fights.

I know that you have to take into account when the fights happened and how people were ranked at that point in time, but I'm just talking about the overall level of fighter these days.

These days, the 'average' competition, is a LOT tougher than it was 5-8 years ago. You'd have to agree with that.

 

It's just my opinion, that the 'average' competition of today, is about equal to the 'top tier' competition of years ago.

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I'm all honesty' date=' I feel he would probably do about as well as he's doing. I don't think he's fallen off nearly as much as some people like to believe.

People need to realise, that the competition is MUCH tougher in this day and age. When Wandy was bulldozing people back in Pride, he wasn't exactly fighting guys of today's calibre. His toughest opponents were Hendo, Rampage, Cro Cop, Arona and Mark Hunt.

 

You also need to realise, that there are some big differences between Pride and the UFC. Aside from the rule changes, Pride was also in the business of protecting their big fighters. When Rampage had Wandy on the mat, that would NOT have been stood up in the UFC. You could clearly see that Rampage was starting to get Wandy's game. He understood how to beat him. I predicted a Rampage victory when they had their fight in the UFC. I didn't see the crazy KO coming, though.

 

Bottom line, is that Wanderlei is STILL the same fighter that he was in Pride. That's his big problem. He's slowly starting to evolve, and if he can adapt and raise his game to the level that the new blood is on, he can be a factor again. also i left some names off because people wouldnt know who they were anyways, they are from his vale tudo days.

 

Don't get me wrong.. I love Wandy. This is in NO WAY a mean-spirited post about him. It's just the truth, as I see it. Other people will have other opinions, but this is just what I believe.

The competition that he was destroying back in the Pride days, wouldn't cut it AT ALL in today's UFC. The ones that have adapted, and also gave him some of his toughest fights, are the ones that are still relevant.[/quote']

here is wanderlei's fight list.

 

you wont be able to find a tougher one.

 

mike van arsedale

vitor belfort

eugene jackson

tito ortiz

guy mezger

gilbert yvel

dan henderson x2

kazushi sakuraba x3

hidehiko yoshidax2

rampage jackson x3

cro cop x2

yuki kondo

mark hunt

ricardo arona x2

kazayuki fujita

chuck liddell

kieth jardine

rich franklin

 

it doesnt get any tougher than this list. not to mention walking away with an 18 fight win streak, a five year span as MW champ. and a record of 32-10-1-1 with 22 wins by knockout. the guy is without question the best 205lber of all time. him and liddell #1-A and #1-B.

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here is wanderlei's fight list.

 

you wont be able to find a tougher one.

 

mike van arsedale

vitor belfort

eugene jackson

tito ortiz

guy mezger

gilbert yvel

dan henderson x2

kazushi sakuraba x3

hidehiko yoshidax2

rampage jackson x3

yuki kondo

mark hunt

ricardo arona x2

kazayuki fujita

chuck liddell

kieth jardine

rich franklin

 

it doesnt get any tougher than this list. not to mention walking away with an 18 fight win streak' date=' a five year span as MW champ. and a record of 32-10-1-1 with 22 wins by knockout. the guy is without question the best LHW of all time. him and liddell #1-A and #1-B.[/quote']

 

Okay, but you have to consider this..

 

He lost to all the guys that are bolded.

Also, you forgot Cro Cop. Which yeah, adds to his quality of opponents, but also adds another KO loss.

As I've said, I'm not talking bad about Wandy. I like him, and respect him, and he's definitely one of the greatest of all time. BUT, I just don't think that he's evolved enough as a fighter. Violence and aggression will only get you so far in today's MMA.

We've been over this before, and I don't want this to turn into any kind of insult thread again. We're both better than that.

 

Would you like me to find somebody with a tougher opponent list?

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Okay' date=' but you have to consider this..

 

He lost to all the guys that are bolded.

Also, you forgot Cro Cop. Which yeah, adds to his quality of opponents, but also adds another KO loss.

As I've said, I'm not talking bad about Wandy. I like him, and respect him, and he's definitely one of the greatest of all time. BUT, I just don't think that he's evolved enough as a fighter. Violence and aggression will only get you so far in today's MMA.

We've been over this before, and I don't want this to turn into any kind of insult thread again. We're both better than that.

 

Would you like me to find somebody with a tougher opponent list?[/quote']

 

 

rampage 2-1

hendo 1-1

sakuraba 3-0

arona 1-1

cro cop 0-1-1 first fight under special rules., with no judges wandy won that fight ez.

mark hunt- outwieghed him by 90lbs both bas rutten and couture said after the fight wandy won this fight, wandy took fight on 2 days notice

liddell- they both fought past there prime was still a good battle.

franklin- many will argue wandy won that fight (while past his prime)

 

cant take nothing away from wandy sorry bro. i understand its your opinion and i respect it.

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so what that he lost to some of this guys

 

rampage 2-1

hendo 1-1

sakuraba 3-0

arona 1-1

cro cop 0-1-1 first fight under special rules.' date=' with no judges wandy won that fight ez.

mark hunt outwieghed him by 90lbs both bas rutten and couture said after the fight wandy won this fight

liddell they both fought past there prime was still a good battle.

franklin many will argue wandy won that fight (while past his prime.

 

[b']cant take nothing away from wandy[/b] sorry bro. i understand its your opinion and i respect it.

 

I'm not trying to take anything away from him. I'm just answering, with my opinion, the question in the thread title.

 

The guys that he lost to, are still relevant today. The guys that he's beaten, are pretty much nowhere to be found.

In your opinion, how would Sakuraba do in the UFC today?

 

As I said, I'm not taking anything away from him.

I just don't feel that he's as far gone as many people seem to believe. It's not that he's lost it, it's just that the competition is much tougher, and it's harder to get away with what he is good at.

 

FWIW, Bisping is probably better than 75% of Wandy's previous competition.

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I'm not trying to take anything away from him. I'm just answering' date=' with my opinion, the question in the thread title.

 

The guys that he lost to, are still relevant today. The guys that he's beaten, are pretty much nowhere to be found.

In your opinion, how would Sakuraba do in the UFC today?

 

As I said, I'm not taking anything away from him.

I just don't feel that he's as far gone as many people seem to believe. It's not that he's lost it, it's just that the competition is much tougher, and it's harder to get away with what he is good at.

 

FWIW, Bisping is probably better than 75% of Wandy's previous competition.[/quote']

he has definitly lost it. it is my HONEST opinion that wanderlei has slowed down and his desire to be the best in the world has faded. without question it has to do with the fact that he has over 40 fights in his career. this isnt beach volleyball brother. you can only dominate at this sport for so long. so for you to say that wanderlei's skills have not diminished and that the reason he isnt doing so good now is because of the quality of his opponents is absurd. bisping better than 75% of wanderlei's past opponents is even more absurd. do you realize that PRIDE only sold out in 2007? seriously how much could the sport have evolved in 3 years? to the point that bisping is better than 75% of wanderlei's past opponents? thats ****ing stupidly rediculous. i take back me saying that i respect your opinion, because there is no way i can respect the kind of nonsense you are spewing. i need to end this debate now cuse you arent even making sense

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he has definitly lost it. it is my HONEST opinion that wanderlei has slowed down and his desire to be the best in the world has faded. without question it has to do with the fact that he has over 40 fights in his career. this isnt beach volleyball brother. you can only dominate at this sport for so long. so for you to say that wanderlei's skills have not diminished and that the reason he isnt doing so good now is because of the quality of his opponents is absurd. bisping better than 75% of wanderlei's past opponents is even more absurd. do you realize that PRIDE only sold out in 2007? seriously how much could the sport have evolved in 3 years? to the point that bisping is better than 75% of wanderlei's past opponents? thats ****ing stupidly rediculous. i take back me saying that i respect your opinion' date=' because there is no way i can respect the kind of nonsense you are spewing. i need to end this debate now cuse you arent even making sense[/quote']

 

Dude, I'm not trying to start any kind of argument. I'm just stating a fact.

Sure, Pride sold in 2007. You also have to realise, that Wanderlei is 2-5 since 2006, with his only "notable" victory, being over Keith Jardine.

Furthermore, you have to go back to 2004 to find a victory over anybody relevant in MMA today. That victory was over Rampage. Since then, he hasn't done a damn thing. He's 5-7 since that fight, with Jardine and Arona being the only people worth a damn on his victory list.

Considering the names that he's lost to, I'd say that he's pretty much right on par with how he would have done if he was still 25 years old.

 

And yes, Bisping is DEFINITELY better than the majority of his former opponents, and almost CERTAINLY better, than anybody that Wandy has never lost to.

 

That being said, I hope Wanderlei knocks his head off.

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LOL @ that comment. I have to agree. Did I mention that I hate Bisping?

 

It's not even about hating Bisping. I don't have this huge hate for Bisping since I don't watch TUF episodes(I watch the fights, don't care for that drama BS), and he's not so bad in interviews. But I am realist, he's a (Randleman's words) B level fighter.

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seXXXpac' date=' you were making sense to some degree, until you said Bisping is better than 75% of the people Wandy fought. That's just stupid.[/quote']

 

Just because you guys like to live in a fantasy world, I went and did the math on this..

 

Wanderlei has, by my count, had 36 different opponents over his career.

Out of those 36, I counted between 6-9 (depending on opinion, I guess) that are better than Bisping.

That leaves at least 27 people that Bisping is better than.

For the record, 27 is 75% of 36.

 

LOL @ that comment. I have to agree. Did I mention that I hate Bisping?

 

Bisping hate aside, you can't deny that he's a solid, well-rounded fighter.

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Just because you guys like to live in a fantasy world' date=' I went and did the math on this..

 

Wanderlei has, by my count, had 36 different opponents over his career.

Out of those 36,[b'] I counted between 6-9[/b] (depending on opinion, I guess) that are better than Bisping.

That leaves at least 27 people that Bisping is better than.

For the record, 27 is 75% of 36.

 

 

 

Bisping hate aside, you can't deny that he's a solid, well-rounded fighter.

 

I counted 25 who were better/about the same as Bisping.

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LOL!

Like hell you did.

 

Let's see, Bisping has 2 notable wins against average fighters. Now let's see which opponents that Wanderlei fought have about the same or better.

 

Mike Van Arsdale

Vitor Belfort

Tito Ortiz

Guy Mezger

Gilbert Yvel

Dan Henderson x2

Kazushi Sakuraba x3

Mirko Filipovic x2

Hidehiko Yoshida x2

Quinton Jackson x3

Mark Hunt

Ricardo Arona x2

Kazuyuki Fujita

Chuck Liddell

Keith Jardine

Rich Franklin

 

Was 24 my bad.

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Let's see' date=' Bisping has 2 notable wins against average fighters. Now let's see which opponents that Wanderlei fought have about the same or better.

 

[b']Mike Van Arsdale[/b]

Vitor Belfort

Tito Ortiz

Guy Mezger

Gilbert Yvel

Dan Henderson x2

Kazushi Sakuraba x3

Mirko Filipovic x2

Hidehiko Yoshida x2

Quinton Jackson x3

Mark Hunt

Ricardo Arona x2

Kazuyuki Fujita

Chuck Liddell

Keith Jardine

Rich Franklin

 

Was 24 my bad.

 

Woah, woah, woah.. hold on a second there, bud.

 

You can't count the same guy multiple times.

I said that Bisping is better than about 75% of his OPPONENTS. Having had 36 DIFFERENT opponents, you can't use Rampage to boost your stats.

 

Furthermore, the guys that are in bold, shouldn't be included. You will never convince me that Yoshida or Fujita are better fighters than Bisping.

Also, guys that are in red, are questionable, to say the least. Mark Hunt is a big guy, and he sure can take a punch, but as an MMA fighter, he kinda stinks. I would also say that Bisping could beat Jardine or Mezger or Tito.

I don't want to say anything bad about Sakuraba, but realistically, Bisping is a better fighter. Sakuraba was in his heyday, when he was submitting unevolved, one-dimensional fighters. He hasn't had a victory over anybody relevant since he beat Rampage almost ten years ago.

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Woah' date=' woah, woah.. hold on a second there, bud.

 

You can't count the same guy multiple times.

I said that Bisping is better than about 75% of his OPPONENTS. Having had 36 DIFFERENT opponents, you can't use Rampage to boost your stats.

 

Furthermore, the guys that are in [b']bold[/b], shouldn't be included. You will never convince me that Yoshida or Fujita are better fighters than Bisping.

Also, guys that are in red, are questionable, to say the least. Mark Hunt is a big guy, and he sure can take a punch, but as an MMA fighter, he kinda stinks. I would also say that Bisping could beat Jardine or Mezger or Tito.

I don't want to say anything bad about Sakuraba, but realistically, Bisping is a better fighter. Sakuraba was in his heyday, when he was submitting unevolved, one-dimensional fighters. He hasn't had a victory over anybody relevant since he beat Rampage almost ten years ago.

 

The fighers you have in bold should be in red. The fighters you have in red are all better than Bisping.

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Please explain to me how Tito' date=' Mezger or Sakuraba are better than Bisping.

I think I'd like to hear this.[/quote']

 

Tito. LHW champion, holds wins over Mezger, Silva, Tanner, Ken Shamrock, Patrick Cote, Vitor Belfort, Forrest Griffin. Had a draw with Rashad Evans because of a point deduction. Way above Bisping.

Mezger. Wins over Semmy Schilt, Tito Ortiz, Funaki. Better than Bisping.

Sakuraba. Holds wins over Carlos Newton, Vitor Belfort, Royler Gracie, Mezger, Renzo Gracie, Ryan Gracie, Rampage, Randleman, Ken Shamrock and Funaki. Much better than Bisping.

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Let's see' date=' Bisping has 2 notable wins against average fighters. Now let's see which opponents that Wanderlei fought have about the same or better.

 

Mike Van Arsdale

Vitor Belfort

Tito Ortiz

Guy Mezger

Gilbert Yvel

Dan Henderson x2

Kazushi Sakuraba x3

Mirko Filipovic x2

Hidehiko Yoshida x2

Quinton Jackson x3

Mark Hunt

Ricardo Arona x2

Kazuyuki Fujita

Chuck Liddell

Keith Jardine

Rich Franklin

 

Was 24 my bad.[/quote']

 

Dude why is Minowaman and Yuki Kondo not on your list. They're both 10 times better than Bisping. seXXXpac is on acid tonight or something.....

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