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Maybe the Pride stars aren't passed their prime


So_Amazing

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Think about it, Rampage has been in a lot of wars and he is still really good. Just because there are better fighters now that beat Wandy or Yvel. The same can go with Chuck. Let's see who he lost to recently, Rampage, Shogun, and Evans. Any of these guys could have cleaned the LHW division that Chuck dominated. I will admit though, that if Tito beats Chuck bad then Chuck has got to go.

 

Now look at Randy, still going strong. At age 43, he whipped Tim Sylvia and Gonzaga, and controversially beat Vera.

 

After all this is just a theory.

 

What's your take?

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im a little confused at how randy got thrown in there.. but anyway. i think some of the pride guys are past their prime. theres a few that are still going strong though.

 

Agreed. Some of those fighters like W. Silva have just been in a ton of wars which were common in Pride but there are those like Rampage and Big Nog who can still go on a tear.

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Agreed. Some of those fighters like W. Silva have just been in a ton of wars which were common in Pride but there are those like Rampage and Big Nog who can still go on a tear.

 

I dunno, Nog seems about tapped honestly. He's still no slouch by any means but he's not the same man we saw in Pride.

 

Rampage is still going strong, Hendo is going to steamroll Strikeforce, and Shogun is on his way back.

 

W. Silva and Cro Cop are about done though honestly. Silva will wreck Bisping, but won't do anything major afterwards.

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Think about it' date=' Rampage has been in a lot of wars and he is still really good. Just because there are better fighters now that beat Wandy or Yvel. The same can go with Chuck. Let's see who he lost to recently, Rampage, Shogun, and Evans. Any of these guys could have cleaned the LHW division that Chuck dominated. I will admit though, that if Tito beats Chuck bad then Chuck has got to go.

 

[b']Now look at Randy, still going strong. At age 43, he whipped Tim Sylvia and Gonzaga, and controversially beat Vera.

[/b]

After all this is just a theory.

 

What's your take?

 

Age has a little to do with it, but you can't use Randy as an example because he is just a freak of nature.

 

The real issue here is the number of wars Pride fighters had. Wandy already had 40 fights when he came to Pride, that's just huge. Mirko had 27 MMA fights, which is still a lot, but he also had 23 kickboxing fights. You can't expect a fighter to still perform the same after 40+ fights. IMO, if Randy had that number of fights he wouldn't even be fighting anymore right now.

 

Big Nog, Rampage and Hendo had less fights. But one thing they all have in common is crazy strong chin, I think that just helped them a lot.

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Think about it' date=' Rampage has been in a lot of wars and he is still really good. Just because there are better fighters now that beat Wandy or Yvel. The same can go with Chuck. Let's see who he lost to recently, Rampage, Shogun, and Evans. Any of these guys could have cleaned the LHW division that Chuck dominated. I will admit though, that if Tito beats Chuck bad then Chuck has got to go.

 

Now look at Randy, still going strong. At age 43, he whipped Tim Sylvia and Gonzaga, and controversially beat Vera.

 

After all this is just a theory.

 

What's your take?[/quote']

rampage hasnt had as many wars as some guys like wandy. wandy fought in vale tudo fights before ufc or pride. he has over 40 fights plus not to mention how many wars he has been in with his teamates at chute boxe academy.

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rampage hasnt had as many wars as some guys like wandy. wandy fought in vale tudo fights before ufc or pride. he has over 40 fights plus not to mention how many wars he has been in with his temates at chute boxe academy.

 

Yea, doesn't really help to go full power while sparring if you want to have a long career. Even if Wandy managed to do it.

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Think about it' date=' Rampage has been in a lot of wars and he is still really good. Just because there are better fighters now that beat Wandy or Yvel. The same can go with Chuck. Let's see who he lost to recently, Rampage, Shogun, and Evans. Any of these guys could have cleaned the LHW division that Chuck dominated. I will admit though, that if Tito beats Chuck bad then Chuck has got to go.

 

Now look at Randy, still going strong. At age 43, he whipped Tim Sylvia and Gonzaga, and controversially beat Vera.

 

After all this is just a theory.

 

What's your take?[/quote']

 

Why does everyone insist that the win over Vera was controversial? He had clear dominance over the course of the entire fight. He took a few good shots that almost ended it but he controlled the match and pace at which it was faught. There was no controversy to it. Jeez I am getting sick of seeing that. Shogun and Machida was controversial.

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Why does everyone insist that the win over Vera was controversial? He had clear dominance over the course of the entire fight. He took a few good shots that almost ended it but he controlled the match and pace at which it was faught. There was no controversy to it. Jeez I am getting sick of seeing that. Shogun and Machida was controversial.

 

Okay...I agree that Machida Rua is controversial...particularly because a title was on the line..and because the guy no one thought could win DID..and he was denied his title..

 

That said..

 

The Vera Couture fight was controversial because..Couture...pushed Vera into the cage...and.............................

 

That's the problem...he did nothing...with Gonzaga he was working the man over...but with Vera..it was just smother...that's it...it was like lay n pray while upright...seriously..Vera wasn't in trouble..

 

meanwhile back at the objective viewer table...Vera landed the most devastating and closer to fight ending shot/s....Randy fell to the ground grimacing like his appendix had ruptured..

 

THAT is why people call it controversial...did Vera do ALOT..no...because Randy held him and didn't allow him to do anything..

 

But did Couture do alot? NO. He didn't do anything but hold.

 

Much like being on top position...holding someone shouldn't count for nearly as much as it does in the eyes of the judges at present...it's called a fight...not a "hold" and Vera..fought better...and more.

 

For the record..I was pulling for Randy though..I just don't like to see a guy who has PUT IN THE WORK...who mans up enough to step into a cage...be denied what's rightfully his..I was WAY WAY WAY more upset over the Machida Rua fight...but I understand why the Vera Couture fight is also controversial.

 

Cheers

 

-DR

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why does everyone insist that the win over vera was controversial? He had clear dominance over the course of the entire fight. He took a few good shots that almost ended it but he controlled the match and pace at which it was faught. There was no controversy to it. Jeez i am getting sick of seeing that. Shogun and machida was controversial.

 

now hold on no controversy.machida just won flat-out.

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Hey guys thanks for the input. I used Randy because at his age you start to lose your reaction. Now obviously Wandy isn't at that age yet. HIs chin seems alright still, as we saw against Chuck, who landed bombs on Wandy. So the question is what's wrong with Wandy. All I can come up with is that he either isn't training hard, or the UFC is to much for him.

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Hey guys thanks for the input. I used Randy because at his age you start to lose your reaction. Now obviously Wandy isn't at that age yet. HIs chin seems alright still' date=' as we saw against Chuck, who landed bombs on Wandy. So the question is what's wrong with Wandy. All I can come up with is that he either isn't training hard, or the UFC is to much for him.[/quote']

people already explained to you that its because he has had so many fights already, that takes a tole on a mans body. age has nothing to do with it. a person can take only so much abuse before there body starts to slow down. what dont you get?

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people already explained to you that its because he has had so many fights already' date=' that takes a tole on a mans body. age has nothing to do with it. a person can take only so much abuse before there body starts to slow down. what dont you get?[/quote']

 

if you knew anything about health, you would know that age brings your reflexes to a hault.

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if you knew anything about health' date=' you would know that age brings your reflexes to a hault.[/quote']

look at RB in the NFL they dont last long at all before there body breaks down. next thing ya know they cant make the cuts they used to, they cant burst up to speed like they used to. same thing for a MLB sluggers they start losing bat speed not long into there 30s. its gotta be 5x worse for a fighter especialy someone with the style of wanderlei. maybe you should try to educate yourself about "health"

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Wandarlei doesnt look as goood in the ufc as he did in pride and i think its because ufc has compleatly different rules. In pride you couldnt use elbows to the head/face, but you could kick a grounded opponent to the head and wandarlei used to do that a lot. I think pride rules were better and ufc rules favour wrestlers and decision grinding.

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look at RB in the NFL they dont last long at all before there body breaks down. next thing ya know they cant make the cuts they used to' date=' they cant burst up to speed like they used to. same thing for a MLB sluggers they start losing bat speed not long into there 30s. its gotta be 5x worse for a fighter especialy someone with the style of wanderlei. maybe you should try to educate yourself about "health"[/quote']

 

Ok, lets use big Nog. He has been through a lot, if not more than Wandy, and yet he is still able to beat top level fighters. Why do you think that is? Maybe he just adapted to the rules better than Wandy. But to say Wandy is passed his prime, I just find crazy. His cardio was down, as he stated. So maybe that's why we saw slow hand speed. Now he said its gotten better. Lets see who Wandy lost to in the UFC, Chuck, Rampage, and Rich(I had this one a draw). There is no shame in any of those losses. Maybe they are better fighters. Did you expect Forrest to beat Rampage? I know I wouldn't have thought that considering what we saw him do in Pride. But it happened, and I think that you are in denial by the fact that maybe Wandy is not as good as the today's stars.

As for the health issue, Google what I'm talking about and you'll see what I mean. I'm off.

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Ok' date=' lets use big Nog. He has been through a lot, if not more than Wandy, and yet he is still able to beat top level fighters. Why do you think that is? Maybe he just adapted to the rules better than Wandy. But to say Wandy is passed his prime, I just find crazy. His cardio was down, as he stated. So maybe that's why we saw slow hand speed. Now he said its gotten better. Lets see who Wandy lost to in the UFC, Chuck, Rampage, and Rich(I had this one a draw). There is no shame in any of those losses. Maybe they are better fighters. Did you expect Forrest to beat Rampage? I know I wouldn't have thought that considering what we saw him do in Pride. But it happened, and I think that you are in denial by the fact that maybe Wandy is not as good as the today's stars.

As for the health issue, Google what I'm talking about and you'll see what I mean. I'm off.[/quote']

you dont even try to take in what other people are saying to you. guys in there 30s fall out of there prime all the time in sports, like i stated earlier NFL RB and MLB sluggers are prime examples. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, and your gonna sit there and argue the fact with me. whatever bro. you can THINK your right but your not.

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Ok' date=' lets use big Nog. He has been through a lot, if not more than Wandy, and yet he is still able to beat top level fighters. Why do you think that is? Maybe he just adapted to the rules better than Wandy. But to say Wandy is passed his prime, I just find crazy. His cardio was down, as he stated. So maybe that's why we saw slow hand speed. Now he said its gotten better. Lets see who Wandy lost to in the UFC, Chuck, Rampage, and Rich(I had this one a draw). There is no shame in any of those losses. Maybe they are better fighters. Did you expect Forrest to beat Rampage? I know I wouldn't have thought that considering what we saw him do in Pride. But it happened, and I think that you are in denial by the fact that maybe Wandy is not as good as the today's stars.

As for the health issue, Google what I'm talking about and you'll see what I mean. I'm off.[/quote']

another thing, Big nog has not been threw as many wars as wandy, thats just stupid to say. first off nog takes pride in his BJJ and wandy is a muay thai brawler. not to mention wandy fought in vale tudo fights before ufc or pride. also, wandy was part of chute boxe and they knocked each other out on a regular basis. no other camped trained the way those guys did.

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another thing' date=' Big nog has not been threw as many wars as wandy, thats just stupid to say. first off nog takes pride in his BJJ and wandy is a muay thai brawler. not to mention wandy fought in vale tudo fights before ufc or pride. also, [b']wandy was part of chute box[/b]e and they knocked each other out on a regular basis. no other camped trained the way those guys did.

 

People need to realize that there is no such thing as sparring when you train in Chute Boxe, the guys are actually fighting and trying to take the other guy's head off.

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you dont even try to take in what other people are saying to you. guys in there 30s fall out of there prime all the time in sports' date=' like i stated earlier NFL RB and MLB sluggers are prime examples. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, and your gonna sit there and argue the fact with me. whatever bro. you can THINK your right but your not.[/quote']

 

Ok well first off I know people in their 30's fall out of their prime. Ali wasn't the same. De la Hoya wasn't the same.

When did I say that didn't happen?

 

As for me not responding to people, you barely responded to my previous comment. I gave you a possibility of why Wandy was slow didn't I. In your most previous comment yous said that I think I'm always right. In my first post I said it was a theory. So clearly you can't read. You are getting to defensive because you know its possible. Nog has been through a lot believe it or not. He was run over by a truck when he was nine, and half the time he gets the crap beat out of him before he submits somebody.

 

Well chutebox I have a challenge for you, respond to my previous post then we will talk.

 

Let's remember, this thread isn't just about Wandy.

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http://menshealth.about.com/od/fitness/a/boxing.htm

 

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/what-happens-to-aging-muscles.html

 

 

Ok I've done some research to prove some of my points. The first post focuses boxing injuries(which is much worse than mma injuries). The punishment to the head basically gives you brain problems and/or other head injuries. The body shots cause broken ribs, cuts, bruises etc. Damage to the eye just really damages your eye(I'm still not seeing where punishment slows you down, nor am I seeing how Wandy has any of these problems. Especially the body and eye injuries.).

 

The second article states that what happens to aging muscles. Pay close attention to the bottom of the article because that's where I prove you wrong, you lose your speed and reaction time as you age, not punishment.

 

You have just heard the truth. My name is So_Amazing, if you were to be proved wrong it would be by me...

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crocop seems to be the only one whos really fallen off the radar. And i assume a lot of that has to do with motivation.

 

w silva looks a bit stiffer, but it seems hes changed his style a bit.

 

Jackson has dominated UFC, only loss a close loss to griffin due to leg kicks. not very devistating

 

fedor is keeping it up

 

hendo only lost to non pride fighters inside the ufc(if you consider silva apart of the international/pride group)

 

overreem who didnt see too much pride success is on fire now

 

big nog has been pretty deadly. Was in some wars and came out on top

 

And it is pretty safe to say a lot of the pride fighters that had big names were getting old near the end of pride, which ended in 07. But really, for sure, Pride had better quality of fighters and fights during hits hay day

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I just realized we shouldn't be talking to So_Amazing' date=' his favorite WW is Matt Sera..........[/quote']

 

At least I can spell Matt Serra.

 

Also what's wrong him being my favorite?

 

Anyway as far as I'm concerned you were just proved wrong. Hahahahaha. Wow. And "I just realized we shouldn't be talking to So_Amazing, his favorite WW is Matt Serra.........." is your best comeback! I pity you.

 

Here's some advice, make like chuteboxcamp and disappear from this thread.

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This may have already been discussed but if not it is something that i think many people over look when looking at ex-Pride fighters now in the UFC. No not the ring/octagon, but did you ever notice that UFC fighters never did too well when doing a Pride event? Probably because it is not easy biologically to adjust to intensive physical activity when your internal clock is all jacked up.

 

Many of the former Pride fighters live outside of the US, and thinking that training a couple fo days before an event will condition you are terribly wrong. I guess you can chalk that up to them not being prepared, but as someone who has went to the other side of the planet before and had to perform at peak levels, it took us roughly 2 full weeks to adjust biologically before we were even starting to be able to go full speed. It is not an easy thing to do, just a thought.

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This may have already been discussed but if not it is something that i think many people over look when looking at ex-Pride fighters now in the UFC. No not the ring/octagon' date=' but did you ever notice that UFC fighters never did too well when doing a Pride event? Probably because it is not easy biologically to adjust to intensive physical activity when your internal clock is all jacked up.

 

Many of the former Pride fighters live outside of the US, and thinking that training a couple fo days before an event will condition you are terribly wrong. I guess you can chalk that up to them not being prepared, but as someone who has went to the other side of the planet before and had to perform at peak levels, it took us roughly 2 full weeks to adjust biologically before we were even starting to be able to go full speed. It is not an easy thing to do, just a thought.[/quote']

 

Thank you ,Kevbo_Jones, another possibility that can substitute the idea that Pride fighters are out of their prime.

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