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will strikeforce outstrike UFC??


MachoMan

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Strikeforce airs on CBS, UFC airs on Vs.

 

there is a big difference there, particularly in their ability to introduce the fighters to the talent within the operation. I see this being one of many factors that are going to eventually lift strikeforce to preeminence in the American MMA television market. Its simple dollars and sense, even myself, a longtime fan of mma, will be watching every single strikeforce broadcast, while i cherry pick my UFC pay - per - views based on whether or not i find the card to be of interest.

 

Also, Strikeforce is offering more money to the fighters. They have allready snagged Hendo and Fedor from the UFC. I dont see the trend changing any time soon. Fighters want exposure, competition, and most of all, money. As Strikeforce adds more and more top level fighters to its cache, i see more and more fighters being lured away from the old stronghold known as the UFC.

 

I think Dana and co. are going to need to make some changes to their business model if they expect to be the top promotion.

 

what do you guys think?

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I would love to debate this with you. Pick a single point from your topic and we will start there. That way we aren't going off track too much.

 

the floor is yours....

 

it seems to me that the level of competition on strikeforce is going to rise as they continue to buy off talent from UFC fighters when their contract expires. This will bring more and more long time viewers to the strikeforce promotions, while also exposing these fighters to new viewers who may be interested in the sport, but not interested enough to buy a pay per view.

 

IMHO this is going to be an extremely large factor in the success of the promotion.

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I think the only things Strikeforce has that UFC lacks are: network TV contract, Fedor, Mousasi, Henderson and Shields.

 

Of those thing s the most important are Fedor and the CBS contract.

 

Of course, I think that Strikeforce can be a huge success and it would only benefit the UFC. The idea that these two operations need to defeat one another is really bad business.

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Yes talent is a big part of a company's success. Granted, Stikeforce is making some good acquisitions. The Stikeforce roster however is still lacking depth. And really the talent is not necessarily choosing Stikeforce over the UFC, a lot of the guys going to Stikeforce are guys who have been dropped by the UFC for various reasons including, loss streaks, contract disputes etc.

 

A fighters choice will always be to go where the money is. The money is in the UFC. It's when they can't get a deal done that they end up going to Stikeforce knowing Stikeforce will sign them because Stikeforce needs them.

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I think the only things Strikeforce has that UFC lacks are: network TV contract' date=' Fedor, Mousasi, Henderson and Shields.

 

Of those things the most important are Fedor and the CBS contract.[/quote']

 

But at what stage do these no longer become smart business decisions? Lets take a look at that CBS contract... we know how quickly CBS is willing to drop MMA, we saw it when they dumped Elite XC. Elite pulled some of the highest ratings with the Kimbo fight yet CBS still pulled the plug. The business is about ratings, and with Fedor they got it on the first show... great ratings. The question is will it continue and more so, will it continue without Fedor on a card?

 

The problem is we have to think about the bottom line of Stikeforce. Stikeforce can't be bringing in huge revenues... yet their roster is growing and Vadim is raping half their money when Fedor is on the card. Sure we may see Stikeforce continue on CBS, but that is only 4 shows a year. The other Stikeforce cards aren't drawing any audience. I just don't see Stikeforce picking up any more than an additional 5% of market share. And that is not enough to allow them to compete with the UFC.

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The point is that the UFC does not benefit from Strikeforce doing poorly, and does benefit from Strikeforce doinbg well.

 

The failure of Afflication was and is bad for the UFC, in that it only reenforces the idea that MMA and MMA productions are bush league.

 

Professional football and baseball and hockey have all goner through this phase of competing organisations. It is only natuirall the MMA goes through it too, with the hopes that at the end you arrive at a true world wide sport.

 

The better Strikeforce does, the better the UFC does.

 

Although it seems to be a no-brainer ythere are lots of poeple who simply don;t get it.

 

Business is about cooperation more than competition. Those who cooperate the best profit the mnost.

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Yes talent is a big part of a company's success. Granted' date=' Stikeforce is making some good acquisitions. The Stikeforce roster however is still lacking depth. And really the talent is not necessarily choosing Stikeforce over the UFC, a lot of the guys going to Stikeforce are guys who have been dropped by the UFC for various reasons including, loss streaks, contract disputes etc.

 

A fighters choice will always be to go where the money is. The money is in the UFC. It's when they can't get a deal done that they end up going to Stikeforce knowing Stikeforce will sign them because Stikeforce needs them.[/quote']

 

YOu are correct that they currently are using alot of talent that could no longer hack it in UFC.

 

They have other talent like fedor that is one loss away from losing the respect of their fan base. the promotion is certainly currently lacking depth, i dont see strikeforce in its current form ever surpassing UFC. I do however see strikeforce continuing to gain fighters, thus growing their depth and marketability. I easily see them grabbing fighters like jardine, whos career course in UFC has lost steam if not validity, and even guys like A. Silva who only has a few more fights left, and may be looking for different competition.

 

also guys like fitch and ortiz who have had fallings out with UFC mgmt in the past.

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That is not true if one of the competing business owns more than 90% of the market share. Please remember back to when UFC used to regularly co-promote with other MMA organizations, remember when you do that every single time, the UFC got screwed in the pooch.

 

The failure of Affliction made the UFC stronger because it allowed the UFC to acquire more talent. It also showed the world that viable MMA organizations need to be smart with their money to survive in this business.

 

Is Stikeforce being smart with their money?

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I would love to debate this with you. Pick a single point from your topic and we will start there. That way we aren't going off track too much.

 

the floor is yours....

 

Why is the UFC showing a re-run past pay per view instead of putting on a new card this Saturday to compete with Strike Force?

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YOu are correct that they currently are using alot of talent that could no longer hack it in UFC.

 

They have other talent like fedor that is one loss away from losing the respect of their fan base. the promotion is certainly currently lacking depth' date=' i dont see strikeforce in its current form ever surpassing UFC. I do however see strikeforce continuing to gain fighters, thus growing their depth and marketability. I easily see them grabbing fighters like jardine, whos career course in UFC has lost steam if not validity, and even guys like A. Silva who only has a few more fights left, and may be looking for different competition.

 

also guys like fitch and ortiz who have had fallings out with UFC mgmt in the past.[/quote']

 

You mention guys who all, even though they were pissed at the UFC all crawled back to Dana wanting a job, why do you think that is?

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I think Strikeforce is doing the best they can do, which is basically what every business is trying to do.

 

I don;t think that the talent the UFC got from Afflication makes up for the black eye that the whole fiasco gives MMA.

 

And I don't think that because the UFC got "screwed in the pooch" in the past on co promotions changes the fact that thet more success MMA in general has the more success the UFC in particular will enjoy.

 

I know I was really excited after Fedor/Rogers show, and that carried over into wanting to see the next UFC more than ever.

 

If you go back in history to the wars between the American League and the National league, or between the NFL and the AFL, you will see that this is nothing new. The UFC could easily be the NFC and Strikeforce the AFL.

 

The beiggest victory the NFC ever had was bringing the AFL into the fold and creating a 'world' league - even though NFC hard cores believed - and were coe=rrect to belive - that the AFL was a minor leaguie in comparison to the NFC.

 

Its all food or thought.

 

I have always believed the best leaders - business and otherwise - were those who can bring people together.

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Perhaps we can look at that and say that the UFC is bringing the MMA world together in it's acquisitions... purchasing Pride, purchasing IFL, working the deal with Affliction; it allows the UFC to bring together top talent and expand the company larger, allowing them to showcase MMA and the UFC worldwide, live in more countries.

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I think Strikeforce is doing the best they can do' date=' which is basically what every business is trying to do.

 

I don;t think that the talent the UFC got from Afflication makes up for the black eye that the whole fiasco gives MMA.

 

And I don't think that because the UFC got "screwed in the pooch" in the past on co promotions changes the fact that thet more success MMA in general has the more success the UFC in particular will enjoy.

 

I know I was really excited after Fedor/Rogers show, and that carried over into wanting to see the next UFC more than ever.

 

If you go back in history to the wars between the American League and the National league, or between the NFL and the AFL, you will see that this is nothing new. The UFC could easily be the NFC and Strikeforce the AFL.

 

The beiggest victory the NFC ever had was bringing the AFL into the fold and creating a 'world' league - even though NFC hard cores believed - and were coe=rrect to belive - that the AFL was a minor leaguie in comparison to the NFC.

 

Its all food or thought.

 

I have always believed the best leaders - business and otherwise - were those who can bring people together.[/quote']

 

i think that if strikeforce and UFC came together like that, it would be a huge win for strikeforce considering the current state of things, but i dont see it as impossible given 5 or 6 years.

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Why would they? They get the same results without spending any money.

 

The upcoming Strike Force Card is not one of the best, but it is a showcasing Lashley fighting though. I have already seen the pay per view as has many more on this forum, so why woudl I desire to watch a re-run when I could watch a new fights?

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Strikeforce airs on CBS' date=' [b']UFC airs on Vs[/b].

 

 

K, 2 thing on this opening line. UFC is on;y doing 2 events on vs. They are still primarilly Spike and PPV.

 

Second being on a mjor network is not a guarantee of success. Remember "Elite" XC.

Unlees you are a Kimbo fanboy you likely don't, but they were on ABC and are now are barely a skidmark on the UFC Underoos.

 

Boosh!

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but all of this is technically off topic - strikeforce stands to gaan a lot by bringing in casual fans, and getting them hooked on watching their events. using outside stars like lashley and walker helps too, even though it is a tactic i think they will abandon once they get more respect and ratings.

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but all of this is technically off topic - strikeforce stands to gaan a lot by bringing in casual fans' date=' and getting them hooked on watching their events. using outside stars like lashley and walker helps too, even though it is a tactic i think they will abandon once they get more respect and ratings.[/quote']

 

What makes you think that they will get more ratings than they did with Fedor's first fight? Then what? How will Stikeforce expand? If it doesn't expand and start bringing in more money, they won't get more talent and won't put on more shows. Without growth they won't compete with anyone...

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What makes you think that they will get more ratings than they did with Fedor's first fight? Then what? How will Stikeforce expand? If it doesn't expand and start bringing in more money' date=' they won't get more talent and won't put on more shows. Without growth they won't compete with anyone...[/quote']

 

i think they will bring in ratings with their first hendo fight, but i am thinking more in the long run, if they continue to snatchj up fighters, ratings, and headlines, they will be a growing force. plus, a picked up fighter comes with a built in fan base - so you dont just buy the guy, you buy his guys too, if you see what i mean.

 

in the long run - putting these guys on a major network is going to hold more weight than it will on VS.

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Perhaps we can look at that and say that the UFC is bringing the MMA world together in it's acquisitions... purchasing Pride' date=' purchasing IFL, working the deal with Affliction; it allows the UFC to bring together top talent and expand the company larger, allowing them to showcase MMA and the UFC worldwide, live in more countries.[/quote']

 

WHy bother?

 

If you argue that Strikeforce succeeding and broadening the base of MMA is irrelevent then how can the UFC doing the same thing matter?

 

It seems a contradiction.

 

A successful Strikeforce would be the best thing that ever happened to the UFC.

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i think that if strikeforce and UFC came together like that' date=' it would be a huge win for strikeforce considering the current state of things, but i dont see it as impossible given 5 or 6 years.[/quote']

 

They don;t even have too come together in order for both to profit from the othgers success.

 

There seems to be a misapprehension that the only way things can be resolved is for the UFC to destroy Strikeforce or for the two organisations to merge as equals.

 

There is a universe of options in between those two things.

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Here is my take on Fedor.

 

Fedor wanted a percentage of whatever company he signed with.

 

The UFC did not think he was entitled to a share of the UFC when he had nothing to do with growing it in the forst place.

 

Oddly enough both side are correct and reasonable.

 

Likewise it was reasonable for Strikeforce to offer Fedor the share in all things Strikeforce in order to sign him up. They are a new venture. The UFC is an established venture.

 

So really everything worked out such that everyone got what they wanted.

 

Strikeforce got a big star.

 

Fedor got the sort of contract he was entitled to.

 

The UFC got to maintain 100% of their own name.

 

The only loser is the fight fan who desperately wants to see Fedor in against the UFC HWs.

 

So that last dominoe to fall is to make that happen.

 

I predict it will happen.

 

I don;t know how, but somehow the UFC will get Fedor into the cage against their champion.

 

How this could be spun as a lose for anyone is beyond me.

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Thats a bit misleading.

 

It would be more accurate to say that all MMA companies fail.

 

The UFC dead in the water until Zuffa bought them.

 

Remember how many people laughed at Zuffa?

 

Not really misleading...

 

Pride - dead

Bodog - dead

Affliciton - dead

 

UFC was in serious trouble long after Zuffa bought them. It wasn't until they landed the airtime for TUF1 and aired the TUF 1 Finale that things turned around.

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don;t know how' date=' but somehow the UFC will get Fedor into the cage against their champion.

 

How this could be spun as a lose for anyone is beyond me.[/quote']

 

it will happen when dana thinks the #2 HW in the ufc could walk in and destroy Fedor .. whenever he feels that confident is when it will go down .. i dont think we will see UFC throw their baddest dude at fedor and risk that type of blow to their self esteem

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Not really misleading...

 

Pride - dead

Bodog - dead

Affliciton - dead

 

UFC was in serious trouble long after Zuffa bought them. It wasn't until they landed the airtime for TUF1 and aired the TUF 1 Finale that things turned around.

 

Yes, really misleading because lots of other fighters fought in those organisations that died, other organisations that Fedor fought for are still alive (M1) and because lots of other organisations that Fedor never was in also folded.

 

Elite - dead

World Cage - dead

Cage Fury - dead

WFA - dead

 

and on and on.

 

Dozens of dead MMA productions.

 

And I agree that TUF is what turned the trick for the UFC.

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it will happen when dana thinks the #2 HW in the ufc could walk in and destroy Fedor .. whenever he feels that confident is when it will go down .. i dont think we will see UFC throw their baddest dude at fedor and risk that type of blow to their self esteem

 

The UFC won;t even lets its own top HWs fight each other.

 

They bring in guys like Yvel and Kongo instead.

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Perhaps we can look at that and say that the UFC is bringing the MMA world together in it's acquisitions... purchasing Pride' date=' purchasing IFL, working the deal with Affliction; it allows the UFC to bring together top talent and expand the company larger, allowing them to showcase MMA and the UFC worldwide, live in more countries.[/quote']

 

if there so greta at doing this why dont they just buy strikeforce

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The UFC won;t even lets its own top HWs fight each other.

 

They bring in guys like Yvel and Kongo instead.

what are you talking about ? isnt that what is scheduled ? and i think they brought yvel in as a filler for JDS to figh someone .. wasnt everyone else already scheduled to fight ? dont know what you mean

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what are you talking about ? isnt that what is scheduled ? and i think they brought yvel in as a filler for JDS to figh someone .. wasnt everyone else already scheduled to fight ? dont know what you mean

 

Don;t know what I mean? There's been three HW fights since Lesnar got sick and none of the top guys fought each other.

 

Thats what I mean.

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Don;t know what I mean? There's been three HW fights since Lesnar got sick and none of the top guys fought each other.

 

Thats what I mean.

when did lesnar get sick ? i cant remember the date .. but i think they worked it out for a reason that way .. thats why they are gonna face each other now .. and at what rank in the ufc do you not consider guys to be "top" anymore ?

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