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Gays in the military


Bonobo

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It sounds like the US is finally going to join the rest of the civilized world in ending the backwards practice of discriminating against gays and lesbians who want to serve their country.

 

Welcome to the 21st century.

 

Your reason for being on the front lines in supporting homosexuality?

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And if they're outed they're discharged under the "Don't ask don't tell" policy.

 

Surely you must be aware of that?

 

That is old news. That stopped happening in the 90's. I was in the military with a couple openly gay soldiers in my unit. No one gave them crap for it and they certainly were not discharged for it. The only real regulation they have to follow is the uniformed public display of affection guidelines that every soldier has to follow.

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That is old news. That stopped happening in the 90's. I was in the military with a couple openly gay soldiers in my unit. No one gave them crap for it and they certainly were not discharged for it. The only real regulation they have to follow is the uniformed public display of affection guidelines that every soldier has to follow.

 

Lol...what?

 

Have you not been near a television or a newspaper in the last 20 years?

 

According to Servicemember's Legal Defense Network' date=' an advocacy organization for LGBT military personnel, over 12,500 service members have been discharged from the U.S. military since the "don't ask, don't tell" policy was signed into law (1993) and enacted in 1994. [/quote']
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While I completely believe that you may have been in a unit that was tolerant of gays and lesbians it surely is the exception to the norm. Have you not heard all the hoopla surrounding Obama's promise to repeal don't ask don't tell? Have you not seen the countless news stories about gays and lesbians being discharged after being outed? Here's a small sample of the thousands of news stories that come up if you google the subject,

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14052513/

 

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/56143

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/01/dan-choi-usa-gay-military

 

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/05/gays_being_kick.html

 

http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-07-01/news/17217144_1_openly-gay-rights-movement-military-leaders

 

http://cjonline.com/stories/020809/kan_385832549.shtml

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While I completely believe that you may have been in a unit that was tolerant of gays and lesbians it surely is the exception to the norm. Have you not heard all the hoopla surrounding Obama's promise to repeal don't ask don't tell? Have you not seen the countless news stories about gays and lesbians being discharged after being outed? Here's a small sample of the thousands of news stories that come up if you google the subject' date='

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14052513/

 

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/56143

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/01/dan-choi-usa-gay-military

 

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/05/gays_being_kick.html

 

http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-07-01/news/17217144_1_openly-gay-rights-movement-military-leaders

 

http://cjonline.com/stories/020809/kan_385832549.shtml

 

i know here in britain a woman got paid huge compensation due to the fact she was a lezzer and the men and other women in her camp or whatever made constant fun of her i beleive she got ?650,000 in compensation

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You are correct that people are still discharged for being gay. I think the military has become more tolerant...and even if they know you are gay, if you aren't doing anything physical or blatantly discussing it...they tend to leave it alone.

 

I disagree with the fact that a homosexual soldier cannot have the same rights to a private life as do the heterosexual individuals. Everything should be merit based...as long as the soldier is doing their job and constantly striving for excellence like all soldiers are expected to do...I've got no problem where that soldier sleeps at night..and who they are with.

 

That's why I think we should repeal DADT. Because as somone said...it's about human rights...and freedom....and if the men and women FIGHTING for that freedom don't deserve to excercise their freedom....then who among us really does?

 

Cheers

 

-DR

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Being gay sure isnt cool!

 

What are talking about?

 

Gay is totally in!

 

In fact I read that this season gay is the new black :)

 

Being gay sure isnt cool! and we dont need soldiers who are going to slap the enemy.....

Man you need some chicks...of all you got to do is post this crap on a UFC website!

 

Seriously, this is the kind of backwards mentality that makes the rest of the world loathe the US.

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Being gay sure isnt cool! and we dont need soldiers who are going to slap the enemy.....

Man you need some chicks...of all you got to do is post this crap on a UFC website!

 

i dont see anything wrong about gays or anthing but i do for the ones that think they have to be outrageously camp just because there gay or the ones that think the world owes them something thats a pain in the **** but i know a few gays and they are as manly as we are

 

they just like peen instead of foof for men (anyway)

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You are correct that people are still discharged for being gay. I think the military has become more tolerant...and even if they know you are gay' date=' if you aren't doing anything physical or blatantly discussing it...they tend to leave it alone.

 

I disagree with the fact that a homosexual soldier cannot have the same rights to a private life as do the heterosexual individuals. Everything should be merit based...as long as the soldier is doing their job and constantly striving for excellence like all soldiers are expected to do...I've got no problem where that soldier sleeps at night..and who they are with.

 

That's why I think we should repeal DADT. Because as somone said...it's about human rights...and freedom....and if the men and women FIGHTING for that freedom don't deserve to excercise their freedom....then who among us really does?

 

Cheers

 

-DR[/quote']

 

It is only enforced in rare cases in the Army, I know that from experience. Like I said there were several gays in my last unit, everyone was aware those people were gay, they even were able to bring their partners to unit functions. They were not however allowed to show their affection in public while in uniform just like a heterosexual soldier is not allowed to do the same. These people also didn't tend to be overly affectionate when at public functions, probablly due to stereotypes and generally not flaunting the fact that they were gay. The US military is far more tolerant of this type of thing than 10-15 years ago. There are still stone aged regulations that call for deaths by firing squad and other out dated regs that still exist aswell, they're just not even remotely enforced.

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i dont see anything wrong about gays or anthing but i do for the ones that think they have to be outrageously camp just because there gay or the ones that think the world owes them something thats a pain in the **** but i know a few gays and they are as manly as we are the just like peen instead of foof

 

 

1. A lot of homosexuals don't seem to be able to stop being "outrageously camp". Seriously, they can't help themselves.

 

2. Many of the ones that think the world owes them something have been mistreated and are bitter. Dosen't make it right but, it is true for many people, not just gays.

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I've got alot of gay friends. I love em...great people...awesome conversationalists.

 

The more "flamboyant" gay people tend to be the younger ones with a chip on their shoulder. But the reason for it is until very recently, and we're still working on it...they've grown up in a world where they have been hated...and literally spat upon...told they are going to hell etc.

 

So that OVER flamboyance is very often a response to that hatred. It isn't something that comes from being gay...it comes when people are tired of being belittled and beaten down by people who hate them for something over which they have no control.

 

I would venture to say...that as our society and world comes to be more accepting of the fact that gay people exist...and there's nothing inherently wrong with it....the levels of overt "gayness" will drop drastically until being gay is as unremarkable as being tall or really short.

 

When there is no longer a reason to go out there and stand for being gay...people will stop doing it and everyone can just go on with their lives and try to find some measure of happiness.

 

Cheers gentlemen

 

-DR

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It is only enforced in rare cases in the Army' date=' I know that from experience. Like I said there were several gays in my last unit, everyone was aware those people were gay, they even were able to bring their partners to unit functions. They were not however allowed to show their affection in public while in uniform just like a heterosexual soldier is not allowed to do the same. These people also didn't tend to be overly affectionate when at public functions, probablly due to stereotypes and generally not flaunting the fact that they were gay. The US military is far more tolerant of this type of thing than 10-15 years ago. There are still stone aged regulations that call for deaths by firing squad and other out dated regs that still exist aswell, they're just not even remotely enforced.[/quote']

 

Yes a mere 12,500 cases of it so far.

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It is only enforced in rare cases in the Army' date=' I know that from experience. Like I said there were several gays in my last unit, everyone was aware those people were gay, they even were able to bring their partners to unit functions. They were not however allowed to show their affection in public while in uniform just like a heterosexual soldier is not allowed to do the same. These people also didn't tend to be overly affectionate when at public functions, probablly due to stereotypes and generally not flaunting the fact that they were gay. The US military is far more tolerant of this type of thing than 10-15 years ago. There are still stone aged regulations that call for deaths by firing squad and other out dated regs that still exist aswell, they're just not even remotely enforced.[/quote']

 

I just posted links to half a dozen news stories by reputable sources that clearly state that gays and lesbians have routinely discharged since DADT was introduced...

 

According to Servicemember's Legal Defense Network, an advocacy organization for LGBT military personnel, over 12,500 service members have been discharged from the U.S. military since the "don't ask, don't tell" policy was signed into law (1993) and enacted in 1994.

 

How can you just ignore that evidence and claim otherwise?

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It is only enforced in rare cases in the Army' date=' I know that from experience. Like I said there were several gays in my last unit, everyone was aware those people were gay, they even were able to bring their partners to unit functions. They were not however allowed to show their affection in public while in uniform just like a heterosexual soldier is not allowed to do the same. These people also didn't tend to be overly affectionate when at public functions, probablly due to stereotypes and generally not flaunting the fact that they were gay. The US military is far more tolerant of this type of thing than 10-15 years ago. There are still stone aged regulations that call for deaths by firing squad and other out dated regs that still exist aswell, they're just not even remotely enforced.[/quote']

 

Oh yeah man, I'm not disagreeing with you. I was just saying that sometimes people are still discharged...which is one of the reasons why DADT should be abolished. But on the whole...it is obviously ALOT more tolerant than in times past. I think when you are being shot at by an enemy...and the guy to your left is throwing suppressive fire downrange...so you can find cover or reload...you stop giving a **** whether the dude is gay or not...your just glad he's there helping you stay alive...and you return the favor.

 

Cheers

 

-DR

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theres a gay i hate but its not because hes gay hes just an ******* overall

 

he think the world owes him something and there is no way hes been treated badly from parents or anything as the have just bought him a new nissan GTR if that aint love i dont know what is

 

but he starts arguments with you then u say something back and he yells out "oh your just saying that because im gay if i wasnt gay you wouldnt be talking to me like that!!"

 

then i get in trouble in my local pub for poking fun even though i didnt say anything at him for being gay just trying to get my point across that guys a ****

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I've got alot of gay friends. I love em...great people...awesome conversationalists.

 

The more "flamboyant" gay people tend to be the younger ones with a chip on their shoulder. But the reason for it is until very recently' date=' and we're still working on it...they've grown up in a world where they have been hated...and literally spat upon...told they are going to hell etc.

 

So that OVER flamboyance is very often a response to that hatred. It isn't something that comes from being gay...it comes when people are tired of being belittled and beaten down by people who hate them for something over which they have no control.

 

I would venture to say...that as our society and world comes to be more accepting of the fact that gay people exist...and there's nothing inherently wrong with it....the levels of overt "gayness" will drop drastically until being gay is as unremarkable as being tall or really short.

 

When there is no longer a reason to go out there and stand for being gay...people will stop doing it and everyone can just go on with their lives and try to find some measure of happiness.

 

Cheers gentlemen

 

-DR[/quote']

 

 

 

You make a great point but, at the same time some men are extremely feminine and some women are extremly masculine (many people interpret this as "flaunting"). This can't be helped and will never change.

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I just posted links to half a dozen news stories by reputable sources that clearly state that gays and lesbians have routinely discharged since DADT was introduced...

 

 

 

How can you just ignore that evidence and claim otherwise?

 

I think Kev knows that people are still discharged...he's just saying that it's gotten significantly better in the past few decades..and he's right. Long gone are the times when "Firing Squads" are called for. And that's a good thing.

 

I think he's just pointing out that things are improving. Doesn't mean that DADT shouldn't be abolished..think it should, but things are getting better.

 

Cheers

 

-DR

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theres a gay i hate but its not because hes gay hes just an ******* overall

 

he think the world owes him something and there is no way hes been treated badly from parents or anything as the have just bought him a new nissan GTR if that aint love i dont know what is

 

but he starts arguments with you then u say something back and he yells out "oh your just saying that because im gay if i wasnt gay you wouldnt be talking to me like that!!"

 

then i get in trouble in my local pub for poking fun even though i didnt say anything at him for being gay just trying to get my point across that guys a ****

 

 

 

lol...some people are just jerks!!

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theres a gay i hate but its not because hes gay hes just an ******* overall

 

he think the world owes him something and there is no way hes been treated badly from parents or anything as the have just bought him a new nissan GTR if that aint love i dont know what is

 

but he starts arguments with you then u say something back and he yells out "oh your just saying that because im gay if i wasnt gay you wouldnt be talking to me like that!!"

 

then i get in trouble in my local pub for poking fun even though i didnt say anything at him for being gay just trying to get my point across that guys a ****

 

Yeah in this case it has nothing to do with being gay. Idiots come in all varieties...and he's probably using the gay bit as a license to be a ****.

 

Cheers

 

-DR

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Yes a mere 12' date='500 cases of it so far.[/quote']

 

Considering the amount of people that have served, the portion that were gay, and the time frame that it was enforced. That was not that much.

 

 

Besides this. I WAS IN THE ****IN MILITARY IN THE LAST 8 YEARS!!! Some of you have yet to answer my question, are you in the service or have you been in service in the last years?

 

It's easy to data mine all the facts, I am telling you from a very fresh real life perspective that it is not nearly as bad as you 2 are trying to claim it is, recently, as in the lat 10 years.

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http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/09/06/military.obesity/index.html

Every year, between 3,000 and 5,000 service members such as Crane are forced to leave the military for being too fat.

http://www.4militarywomen.org/Pregnancy.htm

2004 2005 2006 2007

 

Women released prior to end of obligated service

 

Total Number 11,492 10,851 10,49 10,312

 

Per cent of total 5.41 % 5.34% 5.19 5.26%

 

________________________________________________________________________

 

Women released for reason of pregnancy

 

Total Number 2,635 2,663 2,476 2,711

 

Per cent of total 1.24% 1.31% 1.22% 1.38%

 

________________________________________________________________________

http://www.michaelshouse.com/featured-articles/drug-use-military.html

Since 1999, over 17,000 people have been discharged from the U.S. military because of drug use.

The Navy has discharged more individuals because of drug use during that time (3,400) than any of the other branches of the armed services.

 

 

I wonder if there were any bisexual crack **'s gettin knocked up??

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I think Kev knows that people are still discharged...he's just saying that it's gotten significantly better in the past few decades..and he's right. Long gone are the times when "Firing Squads" are called for. And that's a good thing.

 

I think he's just pointing out that things are improving. Doesn't mean that DADT shouldn't be abolished..think it should' date=' but things are getting better.

 

Cheers

 

-DR[/quote']

 

This is exactly what I'm saying. I don't care for the regulation, it should be abolished, but it's not going to happen over night because Obama said so, and even then it's not nearly as prevelant as it was in the past.

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Considering the amount of people that have served' date=' the portion that were gay, and the time frame that it was enforced. That was not that much.

 

 

Besides this. I WAS IN THE ****IN MILITARY IN THE LAST 8 YEARS!!! Some of you have yet to answer my question, are you in the service or have you been in service in the last years?

 

It's easy to data mine all the facts, I am telling you from a very fresh real life perspective that it is not nearly as bad as you 2 are trying to claim it is, recently, as in the lat 10 years.[/quote']

 

Data mine? WTF are you talking about. The only "fact" that has been presented is that 12,500 gays have been kicked out on DADT since it started.

 

That number wouldn;t include those he didn;t rep or those who released because they didn;t want to make an issue out of it.

 

That's lots as far as Im concerned.

 

DADT is a horrendous affront to the US Constitution, and as such it can;t go fast enough for me.

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http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/09/06/military.obesity/index.html

Every year' date=' between 3,000 and 5,000 service members such as Crane are forced to leave the military for being too fat.

http://www.4militarywomen.org/Pregnancy.htm

2004 2005 2006 2007

 

Women released prior to end of obligated service

 

Total Number 11,492 10,851 10,49 10,312

 

Per cent of total 5.41 % 5.34% 5.19 5.26%

 

________________________________________________________________________

 

Women released for reason of pregnancy

 

Total Number 2,635 2,663 2,476 2,711

 

Per cent of total 1.24% 1.31% 1.22% 1.38%

 

________________________________________________________________________

http://www.michaelshouse.com/featured-articles/drug-use-military.html

Since 1999, over 17,000 people have been discharged from the U.S. military because of drug use.

The Navy has discharged more individuals because of drug use during that time (3,400) than any of the other branches of the armed services.

 

 

I wonder if there were any bisexual crack **'s gettin knocked up??[/quote']

 

Kind of puts things into to perspective for the chicken littles claiming 12,000 since 1993 is some astronomical figure. That total has almost been reached each of the last 5 years with pregnant females.

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well homosexuals can do whatever they want in private..but as far as marraige is concerned im against it...and men and women dont have equal rights yet...lets get that right..then let the 'gays' get their rights..lol..but its not a choice being a homosexual...it can be cured

 

how????

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Data mine? WTF are you talking about. The only "fact" that has been presented is that 12' date='500 gays have been kicked out on DADT since it started.

 

That number wouldn;t include those he didn;t rep or those who released because they didn;t want to make an issue out of it.

 

That's lots as far as Im concerned.

 

DADT is a horrendous affront to the US Constitution, and as such it can;t go fast enough for me.[/quote']

 

I agree that DADT is horrible, but the figure that he DATA MINED is not that bad. Look at the stats posted by Willboy. Almost 12000 pregnant females are released from service a year since OIF and OEF started.

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