juice64011 Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Canada's leaders don't even want to use their healthcare system. http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2510700 Recap- New Foundland Premier Danny Williams is traveling to the U.S. to have heart surgery later this week. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Anesthetic Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 ...but I thought universal healthcare was the best thing ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevelationWT Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Are you going for controversy or satire by defending Brock going by the username 'juice'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommyguy518 Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 who cares canada has been a loft apartment above a really cool party for years now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieMGS Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Its ok to take the p*ss out of your own country's healthcare, but its not ok for foreigners to do it. Us english take the p*ss out of ourselves and our country all the time. But we dont like it if a foreigner tells us how sh*t it is Thats just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0xyg3n Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 ...but I thought universal healthcare was the best thing ever? o it's great. but if you need heart surgery you just have to wait behind all the meth and coke heads who are getting their freebies. you also have to go with the cut rate doc since the real talent works in US since $ is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceBlack Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Canada's leaders don't even want to use their healthcare system. http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2510700 Recap- New Foundland Premier Danny Williams is traveling to the U.S. to have heart surgery later this week. :eek: Although I agree that the US healthcare system is in need of serious reform going to socialized medicine, or whatever Obama and the Dems want to call it, is not the answer. I find it Ironic that this idea is being forced upon Americans when over 60% of us don't want it... I also find it ironic that as we are being railroaded into socialized medicine places like Canada and Germany are renouncing theirs. Also for as "good" as people think "free" healthcare is why is America on the forefront of nearly every medical breakthrough and has the most highly talented pool of doctors in the world? Because capitalism drives innovation and competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0xyg3n Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Although I agree that the US healthcare system is in need of serious reform going to socialized medicine' date=' or whatever Obama and the Dems want to call it, is not the answer. I find it Ironic that this idea is being forced upon Americans when over 60% of us don't want it... I also find it ironic that as we are being railroaded into socialized medicine places like Canada and Germany are renouncing theirs. Also for as "good" as people think "free" healthcare is why is America on the forefront of nearly every medical breakthrough and has the most highly talented pool of doctors in the world? Because capitalism drives innovation and competition.[/quote'] There are many that don't understand that just because change is needed any change is not necessarily good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice64011 Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Are you going for controversy or satire by defending Brock going by the username 'juice'? I just saw some people taking things too seriously in that other thread so I thought it was funny when I read this. It sounds like Williams is actually going to a group of heart specialists so I don't know what the big deal is. Never thought about the name before though:o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevelationWT Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I just saw some people taking things too seriously in that other thread so I thought it was funny when I read this. It sounds like Williams is actually going to a group of heart specialists so I don't know what the big deal is. Never thought about the name before though:o Thanks for quoting me man. I'm not serious and glad you enjoyed the joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBazin Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Ever heard of Penicillin or Insulin? Canadian discoveries. American discoveries; George Bush.... Twice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0xyg3n Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Ever heard of Penicillin or Insulin? Canadian discoveries. American discoveries; George Bush.... Twice! Nazis were pioneers in rocketry Rocketry is good Nazis are good? association fallacy fail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCCagerattler Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Canada's leaders don't even want to use their healthcare system. http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2510700 Recap- New Foundland Premier Danny Williams is traveling to the U.S. to have heart surgery later this week. :eek: SO a rich CAnadian can come down to the states anytime he wants and get overnight service for a procedure that a million poor Americans can't even get in a line for - AND THATS YOUR PROOF AMERICAN HEALTHACARE IS THE BEST???? (aside to foreign posters: perhaps you begin to appreciate the depth of the propaganda problem here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0xyg3n Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 SO a rich CAnadian can come down to the states anytime he wants and get overnight service for a procedure that a million poor Americans can't even get in a line for - AND THATS YOUR PROOF AMERICAN HEALTHACARE IS THE BEST???? (aside to foreign posters: perhaps you begin to appreciate the depth of the propaganda problem here) healthcare is a service, like hookers and travel agents. there is a cost, so pay it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCCagerattler Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Thats the American Way. In Canada and the rest of the Developed Worrld healthcare is a public service. It entails certain differences. And as I have said from the start - what is the difference if the average CAnadians is treated the exact same as the average Amerrican by the system? There is no advantage to being an American. This latest guy just proves it once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_Guy Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 The major issue with the Canadian Health Care is the wait time, but if you are willing to wait for surgery or whatever then you won't have to mortgage your house to have it done. Obviously premiere Danny has some money so he can afford to go to the US which im sure alot of Canadians do. Also I believe Lesnar was in Manitoba when he went to the hospital, one of their problems was their CT Scanner (or something like that was broken) and you cant just get one of those at Walmart so they were waiting for a piece of equipment. No offence to anyone from Manitoba but it isn't the first place that comes to mind when I think I need a major operation, places like Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa or Montreal come to mind. I've been to Manitoba once and it isn't a heavily populated place, best fishing i've ever seen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0xyg3n Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Thats the American Way. In Canada and the rest of the Developed Worrld healthcare is a public service. It entails certain differences. And as I have said from the start - what is the difference if the average CAnadians is treated the exact same as the average Amerrican by the system? There is no advantage to being an American. This latest guy just proves it once again. so you'd rather american's hold some me first priority in the US? next time i see some immigrants in line at McDonald's im going to try that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCCagerattler Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 so you'd rather american's hold some me first priority in the US? next time i see some immigrants in line at McDonald's im going to try that one. I would rather the service was there for anyone to receive whenever they needed it. You would rather rich people were allowed to buy it. Im sure they appreciate your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCCagerattler Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 The basic problem is that you cannot create a waiting list based on relative urgency AND provide overnight service to the rich. You can one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megasoup Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 First off, Brock went to the Mayo clinic, a major U.S.medical institution, (after going to the the Canadian doctors) and was misdiagnosed. I thought it was confusing how he slammed Canadian Healthcare and wasn't upset with similiar results from supposed cutting edge medical community. Now, let's compare medicine in America versus other countries. I got two wisdom teeth removed in South Korea and one in the U.S. South Korea; two teeth, no pain, in and out in less that 5 minutes. U.S.; one tooth, exessive discomfort, stretched my lips so that they were sore for about a week, it took forever and I still have a big depression where the tooth once was. Australia; my granny is apparently doing really well under there system. Nurses come by her house every day to check up on her. She is getting top care, no complaints. America again; I was framing houses with the carpenters union (damn hard work by the way) when the housing market went belly up with our beloved capitalist system at work and a Republican in office. Work was so slow I lost my insurance coverage because I couldn't get enough hours in per quarter. No fault of mine. So I get a job tending bar, get the company insurance. I quit the job to start my own business, (the store I'm at right now) and start paying about $1200 per month for Cobra. Through some error in submitting paperwork, one week before my wife is due for our 3rd child, we get canceled. The insurance company didn't return the money. They just canceled us before they fulfilled their obligation. Oh, of course the good doctor would take our cash. (the same doctor who accepted complete payment for our 2nd child, yet wasn't even there for the delivery) but would not have accepted Medicaid, which we tried to get but were ineligible for anyway. Our system sucks dude. Don't listen to what naysayers pretend to know about other countries. I have many more examples. But won't take up any more of your valuable reading time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0xyg3n Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I would rather the service was there for anyone to receive whenever they needed it. You would rather rich people were allowed to buy it. Im sure they appreciate your support. healthcare must be paid for. salaries, facilities, supplies, equipment, liabilities. i really don't see how adding a whole new department of gov't is going to improve the situation, nor how it could be deficit neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCCagerattler Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 healthcare must be paid for. salaries' date=' facilities, supplies, equipment, liabilities. i really don't see how adding a whole new department of gov't is going to improve the situation, nor how it could be deficit neutral.[/quote'] How is it CAnada has so much less debt when they do the healthcare thing and we don;t? See? It doesn;t have to make sense in Ameirca.It only has to sound like it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0xyg3n Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 How is it CAnada has so much less debt when they do the healthcare thing and we don;t? See? It doesn;t have to make sense in Ameirca.It only has to sound like it makes sense. What you're not getting is that you pay for healthcare one way or another. you are saying you want to pay the gov't your premium + their cut + the premiums of anyone who can't or won't pay their own to manage your healthcare. why not just fix it instead of expand the gov't? if health insurance was as easy as property insurance... you goto the company or an agent, buy your healthcare and pay your premiums and you get coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megasoup Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 If the government ran healthcare... Well, you could lop off 15% (the agents commission) of the cost of healthcare right off the top before we even get started. You could cut an additional figure, the cost of marketing right along with it. That means the doctors yellow page ad, his newspaper ads, hospital advertisements...anything related to advertising. That means Pharmaceutical companies too. Magazines, television commercials; this stuff gets expensive and it's a silly way to make healthcare decisions. Hey, you ever work as a waiter in a fancy restaurant? I have. Every one of them (the kind where you can't get in without a jacket) has at least two nights a week private parties hosted by pharmaceutical companies for doctors. Very expensive, they go all out...****tails and hors'doerves followed by a three course and dessert. Lots of wine and cigars. Waste, waste, waste. Government healthcare would stop that. A centralized billing department for Copays, no collections office needed. Costs are cut. No longer each doctor with his own team of secretaries, receptionists, accounting departments etc. We're talking efficiently. We're talking assembly line production. If you have an ear infection, why can't you just walk into a hospital, they look in your f##king ear and give you a pill in about 5 minutes flat. Give you a shot and pull your tooth. Put you under and yank your appendix. Doctors run inefficiently and are basically criminals anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCCagerattler Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 What you're not getting is that you pay for healthcare one way or another. you are saying you want to pay the gov't your premium + their cut + the premiums of anyone who can't or won't pay their own to manage your healthcare. why not just fix it instead of expand the gov't? if health insurance was as easy as property insurance... you goto the company or an agent' date=' buy your healthcare and pay your premiums and you get coverage.[/quote'] The insurance industry has cut their owen throats by refusing to insure so many millions of Americans. If the private insurers were doing their jobs none of these reforms would ever have been necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMA_Spawn Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 If you want to know what's wrong with the U.S. Healthcare System watch Sico by Michael Moore. The Canadian System is no where near perfect, but everyone has equal access. Yes we have delayed wait times, but when you need care you get it without hearing from your insurance company that you're not covered. I'll take our system the way it is, however, if I was ultra rich I would want to access the privatized system in the U.S., because you can buy nothing but the best while still living in a great country like Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0xyg3n Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 The insurance industry has cut their owen throats by refusing to insure so many millions of Americans. If the private insurers were doing their jobs none of these reforms would ever have been necessary. harsh reality of life: insurance company taking on a chronicly ill patient is like a bank making a bad loan. if insurance companies worked this way then we'd be bailing them out too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCCagerattler Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 harsh reality of life: insurance company taking on a chronicly ill patient is like a bank making a bad loan. if insurance companies worked this way then we'd be bailing them out too. The harsh reality of life is that the US government spends almost twice as much money on healthcare per person than the Canadian government does, and America still does not have universal coverage. THAT is the harsh reality that all our right wing yahoos are determined to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnydingo Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 You the man, Cagerattler. You're telling it just the way it is, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkReflection Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 The harsh reality of life is that the US government spends almost twice as much money on healthcare per person than the Canadian government does' date=' and America still does not have universal coverage. THAT is the harsh reality that all our right wing yahoos are determined to ignore.[/quote'] Amen sir. Dead on. We could deliver good health care to every American citizen and save money in doing so. And of course..you'll have people come on here and regurgitated right wing lies...but that's all they are...blatant lies. The conservatives/republicans/tea party idiots/right wingers are just helping protect the profits of the insurance industry. Because they have a deal with those companies...you (politicians) protect our (insurance co.) profits...and we'll contribute healthily to your campaigns...AND when you leave office we'll give you a multi-million dollar a year job. And it's not JUST the insurance industries...this happens all over the place...but the medical field has ALOT of this going on. I love how idiots who are against a single payer system...love to cry socialism..well...guess what..PRIVATE INSURANCE IS SOCIALISM.. Let me repeat...PRIVATE INSURANCE IS SOCIALISM... It's the EXACT SAME THING as a SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM.. The only difference is...only certain people are allowed in...and it's a "for profit" business.. Briefly...private insurance is....every member who is covered by one company..pays their monthly bills and co-payments if they are sick. The insurance company takes that POOL OF MONEY (SOCIALISM SOCIALISM SOCIALISM)...that came from a large number of people contributing ( SOCIALISM)...and they pay for a good part of the medical expenses that it's members accrue...assuming of course that they can't somehow deny you the treatment.....if they can deny you they will...but if there isn't a way out...sure they help out...and all you have to do ... is start paying HIGHER PREMIUMS into that socialist pool of funds..because you actually got sick once...or had a car accident... The BS thing about the system above...is that...not everyone can get in...they don't want sick people...basically they don't want to cover those WHO NEED INSURANCE...let me repeat...INSURANCE COMPANIES....DO...NOT!...WANT TO COVER..PEOPLE WHO ...NEED...COVERAGE... What insurance companies want..is healthy people writing them a check every month...because that means more houses and private jets...and tropical islands The more they can deny coverage...the more PROFIT... And THAT is the big one...Private insurance companies are about PROFIT.. So that "BIG SOCIALIST POOL OF MONEY" that private insurers collect from their members...DOES NOT GO EXCLUSIVELY TO HEALTHCARE FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE PLAN... No...they TAKE MONEY OFF THE TOP!!! **** that...and anyone who defends that system is either A..a complete idiot... or B. Benefiting from the system With a "single payer system" you have that SAME BIG POOL OF MONEY the private insurers collect from their members But the advantage is...it's a bigger pool...because EVERYONE is giving a little bit...if you are rich you give alot...but you can ****ing afford it so stop whining you *******. If you work at McDonalds...you pay VERY little...but EVERYONE IS COVERED UNDER THIS PLAN.. And the best part? ALL OF THE MONEY IN THE POOL GOES TO MAKING PEOPLE WELL!!! None of it goes into someones pocket...in private insurance you aren't paying for your health...you are paying for some millionaires 5th house... I hope that clarifies this issue for some of you who don't understand this debate. Cheers gentlemen -DR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yerbo Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 ...but I thought universal healthcare was the best thing ever? It's the best system overall....naturally like with anything else you can find individual exceptions within it. For example you might say the USA is the best country in the world, but even the most patriotic (read:brain dead) person would admit that not everything in the USA is better than everything in every other country. Does Canada have the best surgeons in the world of the type this guy needed? Maybe not. Does it have a system that takes care of a much higher % of it's population adequately and for far less cost than the USA? Without a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yerbo Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 SO a rich CAnadian can come down to the states anytime he wants and get overnight service for a procedure that a million poor Americans can't even get in a line for - AND THATS YOUR PROOF AMERICAN HEALTHACARE IS THE BEST???? (aside to foreign posters: perhaps you begin to appreciate the depth of the propaganda problem here) Good point hah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yerbo Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 What you're not getting is that you pay for healthcare one way or another. you are saying you want to pay the gov't your premium + their cut + the premiums of anyone who can't or won't pay their own to manage your healthcare. why not just fix it instead of expand the gov't? if health insurance was as easy as property insurance... you goto the company or an agent' date=' buy your healthcare and pay your premiums and you get coverage.[/quote'] And Americans pay WAY more for theirs than anyone else in the world because it is FOR PROFIT. I'm not sure how that's a point in favour of the US system. The USA has insurance companies running the show, Canadians have doctors and the government running it. I think I'll take my chances with the government over the insurance companies, at least if they screw me I can vote them out. Oh yeah...Is basic education for profit? NO, and neither should basic health care be. It should be a fundamental right in any nation. Hell Cuba has a better system than the USA in terms of actually caring for a large % of their population. Hope you like apples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yerbo Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 harsh reality of life: insurance company taking on a chronicly ill patient is like a bank making a bad loan. if insurance companies worked this way then we'd be bailing them out too. And I am so sure you'll have the same attitude when your father, mother or wife dies or loses everything they own because the insurance companies decide to cancel your insurance some day....riiiight. Time to go to your tea party isn't it? I can hear the propaganda machine winding up for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkReflection Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Sadly...you are correct when you say that insurance companies taking on a sick patient is like a bank making a bad loan. And that is the problem. Health care in the US is a for profit system. In the US Cancer is an opportunity to buy a new house. In most other countries...it is a horrible conditition that society feels obligated to help rectify. Health care SHOULD NOT be about making a buck. IF you want to profit off of disease..then become a doctor. Or nurse..or nutritionist. They deserve the get paid because THEY ARE PROVIDING A SERVICE. Insurance companies don't DO anything but collect money from millions and keep some in their pocket. If you are having a heart attack you don't call Blue Cross...you call the hospital. Pay the hospital...not evil greedy and immoral people in suits. Cheers -DR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCCagerattler Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Oddly enough the American insurance industry said for years and years that they could easily afford to carry sick people because they were such a small percentage of the population that the needs of the few could easily be met by the money of the many. Then came what has come to be know as deregulation of all things financial. Suddenly sick people were not able to be covered under the system, they were too expensive. Well, here's a tip kids: if your health insurance industry cannot meet the needs of the sick it |T IS NOT DOING ITS JOB. We are now in the unnerving position of having to listen to people say that health insurers cannot afford to take on health care problems. It is as if common and sense and logic were no longer applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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