Kevbo_Jones Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I came across an interesting article about the LHC. What is your take on this machine, do you think the research should continue, and what do you think stands to be learned from this experiment? http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre6124yg-us-cern/ "Big Bang" collider may reveal mystery particle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Robert EvansPosted 2010/02/03 at 2:06 pm EST GENEVA, Feb. 3, 2010 (Reuters) ? Scientists operating the "Big Bang" particle collider at CERN could solve the mystery of what gives mass to matter during a nearly two-year non-stop run lasting until late 2011, a spokesman said on Wednesday. Gillies told Reuters the long-sought but elusive Higgs Boson particle could well appear during the extended experiment after the world's biggest and most expensive scientific machine is turned on again later this month. "If it is there, we have a reasonable chance of seeing it," said Gillies, referring to the particle which Scots physicist Peter Higgs said three decades ago would explain how matter came together and created the universe and everything in it. Gillies said the 18-24 month operation of the machine, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research on the Swiss-French border near Geneva, would produce a huge amount of information. Even if the Higgs Boson was not revealed, it would not mean that it did not exist. After the first long run and a year's break for preparations, the LHC would be turned on again at the highest possible energy level. "It may be that we require that intensity to capture it," Gilles added. The LHC was first turned on in September 2008 but had to be shut down after a huge explosion in the 27-kilometre (16.78 mile) circular tunnel through which it runs deep underground. The focus of the LHC is the collision of particles moving in opposite directions at high energy. The billions of collisions, each creating conditions that existed a minute fraction of a second after the "Big Bang" when the universe began 13.7 billion years ago, will produce data that some 10,000 scientists at CERN and around the world will record and analyze. The matter spewed out by the primeval explosion eventually produced the stars, planets and life on Earth -- but the Higgs theory says this was only possible if something like the Boson brought matter together, giving it mass. The LHC ran for some two months at the end of last year, staging particle beam collisions in the tunnel at an energy up to 2.36 tera-electron volts (TeV), the highest ever achieved. The next, long run with no winter break was decided at a meeting of CERN physicists, engineers and managers in Chamonix, France, last week. Gillies said the collision energy would be turned up gradually to 7 TeV when it got under way. Toward the end of next year, the collider will be closed down again for up to 12 months, allowing engineers to prepare the tunnel and the huge amount of equipment there for collisions at 14 TeV in the following run, probably starting in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Anesthetic Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I think this experiment is incredibly awesome. I'm not much of a physics buff, but confirming the existence of the 'god particle' might be able to shut a lot of ignorant people up... ...that or it will create a black hole & none of us will ever know WTF happened! (lol) Regardless, this thread is a great opporitunity for me to post this picture: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuMaster Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 They spent so much money already, they should try to finish the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaseline Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I dont see any good coming out of this really Fail in the making Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 They spent so much money already' date=' they should try to finish the project.[/quote'] i beleive there is far too much at stake for them to rush this project. I foresee a couple of disasters and setbacks but then the eventual explaination of why the universe exists putting and end to dogma's. At least for people with brains. BTW G_A I'm pretty sure that pic will get edited, but it is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I dont see any good coming out of this really Fail in the making Care to explain why you think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaseline Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Care to explain why you think that? those t3sticles are bound to touch each other enough said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 those t3sticles are bound to touch each other enough said LOL, so lets not push the boundaries of science and sit in a stagnant state of existence??? I'm well aware of the risks involved in this project, but the reward and explanation that will come with it's success will be revolutionary to mankind as we know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Anesthetic Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 BTW G_A I'm pretty sure that pic will get edited' date=' but it is funny.[/quote'] If that pic gets deleted I will understand but I will make a stink about the 'Jesus loves you but I think you are a c*nt' pic posted by our best buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkReflection Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I say let the research continue. But yeah...the miniature black holes are cause for at least mild concern. But word from the physicists is that IF...and it's a big IF apparently...if mini black holes are created...they will "exist" for only minute fractions of a second...and they will "collapse" without doing any harm... But still...no matter how long the odds are against disaster....if a viable black hole is created...that's the ball game folks.. But we were at a similar cross roads with the first nuclear weapon...some scientists believed that such a large explosion would ignite and consume the atmosphere killing off all life on earth....but they did it anyway...little sad really....a device meant for nothing but death...being worth..possibly killing the world. At least with the LHC it's purpose isn't dealing death..and it could do alot of good for humanity. So if we are going to take these kinds of long risks...I'd rather we take them on positive things...rather than interspecies hostility. Cheers -DR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 If that pic gets deleted I will understand but I will make a stink about the 'Jesus loves you but I think you are a c*nt' pic posted by our best buddy. It was the context I used it in that made it ok. Your context is not okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevelationWT Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 LOL' date=' so lets not push the boundaries of science and sit in a stagnant state of existence??? I'm well aware of the risks involved in this project, but the reward and explanation that will come with it's success will be revolutionary to mankind as we know it.[/quote'] They could at least wait till 2013! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Anesthetic Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 It was the context I used it in that made it ok. Your context is not okay. You know you laughed when you saw it! When something is named "Hadron" jokes must be made... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 You know you laughed when you saw it! When something is named "Hadron" jokes must be made... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 They could at least wait till 2013! Of course. Everyone knows the Annunaki will come and destroy us in 2012... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyboy Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 You know you laughed when you saw it! When something is named "Hadron" jokes must be made... I laughed. and just how long have you been waiting for the right moment to use such a pic?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erjabo Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 There was an old saying that if an Empire wasn't growing or stopped conquering other territories than it was only getting smaller. I think this can also be applied to scientific discovery. If we are not going forward, we are only going backward. If we attempt to no longer discover new things, then our minds will stagnate and we will start going backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 There was an old saying that if an Empire wasn't growing or stopped conquering other territories than it was only getting smaller. I think this can also be applied to scientific discovery. If we are not going forward' date=' we are only going backward. If we attempt to no longer discover new things, then our minds will stagnate and we will start going backwards.[/quote'] This^^^. We stand to gain far too much from this experiments success then to not at least try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Anesthetic Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I laughed. and just how long have you been waiting for the right moment to use such a pic?? Too long my friend. Too long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSanta Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I say let the research continue. But yeah...the miniature black holes are cause for at least mild concern. But word from the physicists is that IF...and it's a big IF apparently...if mini black holes are created...they will "exist" for only minute fractions of a second...and they will "collapse" without doing any harm... But still...no matter how long the odds are against disaster....if a viable black hole is created...that's the ball game folks.. But we were at a similar cross roads with the first nuclear weapon...some scientists believed that such a large explosion would ignite and consume the atmosphere killing off all life on earth....but they did it anyway...little sad really....a device meant for nothing but death...being worth..possibly killing the world. At least with the LHC it's purpose isn't dealing death..and it could do alot of good for humanity. So if we are going to take these kinds of long risks...I'd rather we take them on positive things...rather than interspecies hostility. Cheers -DR Well Put but I don't know. We can't be so sure that these Mini black holes will close themselves up again no harm no foul. All it would take is for one of those miniature black holes to get bigger and we are all doomed. When we tested with nuclear warfare, yes I agree that it is a death machine and that we still did it anyway, however look what that has resulted in? Nowadays 20 someodd countries can push a button and we would have nuclear fireworks resulting in Nuclear Winter. I respect what the LHC experiment is trying to prove and what it is all about but the risks are potentially catastrophic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Well Put but I don't know. We can't be so sure that these Mini black holes will close themselves up again no harm no foul. All it would take is for one of those miniature black holes to get bigger and we are all doomed. When we tested with nuclear warfare' date=' yes I agree that it is a death machine and that we still did it anyway, however look what that has resulted in? Nowadays 20 someodd countries can push a button and we would have nuclear fireworks resulting in Nuclear Winter. I respect what the LHC experiment is trying to prove and what it is all about but the risks are potentially catastrophic.[/quote'] The potentially positive impact could be revolutionary though. Possibly renewable energy sources and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openeye Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 The potentially positive impact could be revolutionary though. Possibly renewable energy sources and the like. If someone finally discovers a way to make this a viable solution (fusion is possible already, but it consumes almost as much energy as it produces in the end) this will be the breakout of the MILLENNIUM. Can you imagine? Producing gigantic amounts of energy out of water? Man, I'm eagerly awaiting the result of this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forbidden Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I came across an interesting article about the LHC. What is your take on this machine' date=' do you think the research should continue, and what do you think stands to be learned from this experiment? http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre6124yg-us-cern/[/quote'] You guys know nothing about physics. Each day the earth is hit by cosmic rays with more energy than any LHC could create. If you think it could generate dangerous mini-black holes, we would see their effects everywhere in the universe and our solar system but we don't. Know why? Hawking radiation. This experiment exists to test grand unification theories, which right now is the most important problem in the field of physics. Physics has fundamental unanswered issues that only grand unification theories can fix. It is so important, that Einstein dedicated more of his life to this rather than relativity theory. The reason why we don't hear about it, is because at the time technology wasn't good enough to test his theories, so he wasn't able to solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kable Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I think this experiment is incredibly awesome. I'm not much of a physics buff' date=' but confirming the existence of the 'god particle' might be able to shut a lot of ignorant people up... ...that or it will create a black hole & none of us will ever know WTF happened! (lol) Regardless, this thread is a great opporitunity for me to post this picture: [img']http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b21/richble/1214477765427.png[/img] LMAO I went in this thread to read the article and i am hit with a picture on the 2nd post that makes the first post impossible to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOGMAN Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 i beleive there is far too much at stake for them to rush this project. I foresee a couple of disasters and setbacks but then the eventual explaination of why the universe exists putting and end to dogma's. At least for people with brains. BTW G_A I'm pretty sure that pic will get edited' date=' but it is funny.[/quote'] Interesting article. I'm all for advancing science, but explaining how the universe exist won't put an end to "dogmas" as you call them. My old preacher once did a sermon called "Prior To.." Where he explained that if science could prove that the big bang created the universe, there would still have to be some force that made it possible for the big bang to occur; something prior to the big bang. I don't really consider myself a religious person, but I do consider myself spiritual. Nobody has ever been killed in the name of spirituallity, but millions have been killed in the name of religion. Great post though. This is pretty interesting. Oh and by the way, I'm an engineer, so I do have a brain. Even though I beleive in crazy things like Jesus Christ dying for our sins. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 You guys know nothing about physics. Each day the earth is hit by cosmic rays with more energy than any LHC could create. If you think it could generate dangerous mini-black holes' date=' we would see their effects everywhere in the universe and our solar system but we don't. Know why? Hawking radiation. This experiment exists to test grand unification theories, which right now is the most important problem in the field of physics. Physics has fundamental unanswered issues that only grand unification theories can fix. It is so important, that Einstein dedicated more of his life to this rather than relativity theory. The reason why we don't hear about it, is because at the time technology wasn't good enough to test his theories, so he wasn't able to solve the problem.[/quote'] I don't really worry about mini black holes, so I don't know if this post was directed at me. I merely brought the article to the forum. Instead of trying to be condescneding to the general community maybe you should approach the topic with a bit of humility. Certainly you don't know all there is to the world of physics. Just discuss and learn with the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Interesting article. I'm all for advancing science' date=' but explaining how the universe exist won't put an end to "dogmas" as you call them. My old preacher once did a sermon called "Prior To.." Where he explained that if science could prove that the big bang created the universe, there would still have to be some force that made it possible for the big bang to occur; something prior to the big bang. I don't really consider myself a religious person, but I do consider myself spiritual. Nobody has ever been killed in the name of spirituallity, but millions have been killed in the name of religion. Great post though. This is pretty interesting. Oh and by the way, I'm an engineer, so I do have a brain. Even though I beleive in crazy things like Jesus Christ dying for our sins. I[/quote'] I disagree, dogma would be expelled with the proof of the Big Bang, however "spirituallity" as you put it, would not. It is part of the human psyche to create this image of all power to explain the things we do not understand. That is undeniable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielCharlesworth Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Interesting article. I'm all for advancing science' date=' but explaining how the universe exist won't put an end to "dogmas" as you call them. My old preacher once did a sermon called "Prior To.." Where he explained that if science could prove that the big bang created the universe, there would still have to be some force that made it possible for the big bang to occur; something prior to the big bang. I don't really consider myself a religious person, but I do consider myself spiritual. Nobody has ever been killed in the name of spirituallity, but millions have been killed in the name of religion. Great post though. This is pretty interesting. Oh and by the way, I'm an engineer, so I do have a brain. Even though I beleive in crazy things like Jesus Christ dying for our sins. I[/quote'] Religion always backdates God prior to everything. It always will, they know how to keep God in play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnsBACK Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I think this experiment is incredibly awesome. I'm not much of a physics buff' date=' but confirming the existence of the 'god particle' might be able to shut a lot of ignorant people up... ...that or it will create a black hole & none of us will ever know WTF happened! (lol) Regardless, this thread is a great opporitunity for me to post this picture: [img']http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b21/richble/1214477765427.png[/img] OMG! that pic is friggin AWESOME! LOL! huge win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenflower Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I disagree' date=' dogma would be expelled with the proof of the Big Bang, however "spirituallity" as you put it, would not. It is part of the human psyche to create this image of all power to explain the things we do not understand. That is undeniable.[/quote'] I don't know Kevbo....And God said, "Let there be light."...sounds like the big-bang to me lol. Anyways, I am so excited about the collider and I am practiaclly holding my breath to see what will be discovered. Have any of you guys seen the music video? It's nerdy and kind of bad....but awesome imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I don't know Kevbo....And God said' date=' "Let there be light."...sounds like the big-bang to me lol. Anyways, I am so excited about the collider and I am practiaclly holding my breath to see what will be discovered. Have any of you guys seen the music video? It's nerdy and kind of bad....but awesome imo.[/quote'] Pretty much think this would explain that statement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenflower Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Pretty much think this would explain that statement... Sweet, that's almost as cool as the ****** pic (the one with the peni). Did you see the video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade7 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 LOL' date=' so lets not push the boundaries of science and sit in a stagnant state of existence??? I'm well aware of the risks involved in this project, but the reward and explanation that will come with it's success will be revolutionary to mankind as we know it.[/quote'] I say they should press ahead with it. The risks are worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0xyg3n Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 G-O L-H-C What's that spell? GO LHC! LHC CHEER SQUAD YEAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 Just thought I'd ressurect this thread because of an article thats been published... Hottest temperature ever heads science to Big Bang By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor Maggie Fox, Health And Science Editor ? Mon Feb 15, 11:23 am ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) ? Scientists have created the hottest temperature ever in the lab -- 4 trillion degrees Celsius -- hot enough to break matter down into the kind of soup that existed microseconds after the birth of the universe. They used a giant atom smasher at the U.S. Department of Energy's Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York to knock gold ions together to make the ultra-hot explosions -- which lasted only for milliseconds. But that is enough to give physicists fodder for years of study that they hope will help them understand why and how the universe formed. "That temperature is hot enough to melt protons and neutrons," Brookhaven's Steven Vigdor told a news conference at a meeting of the American Physical Society in Washington on Monday. These particles make up atoms, but they are themselves made up of smaller components called quarks and gluons. What the physicists are looking for are tiny irregularities that can explain why matter clumped out of the primeval hot soup. They also hope to use their findings for more practical applications -- such as in the field of "spintronics" that aims to make smaller, faster and more powerful computing devices. They used the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC, pronounced "rick"), a particle accelerator and collider that is 2.4 mile around and buried 12 feet underground in Upton, New York to collide gold ions billions of times. "RHIC was designed to create matter at temperatures first encountered in the early universe," Vigdor said. They calculate the 4 trillion degree temperature gets pretty close. "How hot is it?" he asked. In comparison, "The predicted melting temperature of protons and neutrons is 2 trillion degrees. The temperatures at the core of a typical type-2 supernova is 2 billion degrees," he said. The center of our sun is 50 million degrees, iron melts at 1,800 degrees and the average temperature of the universe is now 0.7 of a degree above absolute zero. BIRTH OF MATTER Vigdor's team believe they are looking at a recreation of the moment just before the quark-gluon soup condensed into hadrons -- the particles of matter that make up most of our universe. Something happened in the milliseconds after the Big Bang to create an imbalance in favor of matter over anti-matter. If there had not been this disparity, matter and anti-matter would have simply reacted to create a universe of pure energy. Later this year, physicists using the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland hope to smash lead ions together to create even hotter temperatures that should replicate moments even earlier in the birth of the universe. Brookhaven has also patented some potential commercial applications of the research, said theorist Dmitri Kharzeev. "The goal here is to create a device that can operate not only on the current of an electric charge but also on the current of spin," Kharzeev told the news conference. Quarks spin in different directions and understanding how and why they do this can help scientists harness the power. It may be possible to replicate a symmetrical spin in graphene, for example, said Kharzeev. Graphene is a so-called nanomaterial that scientists believe may replace silicon in super-fast and super-small devices. "We are thinking of other practical applications as well," said Kharzeev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 My prediction is that they will find nothing new by doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 My prediction is that they will find nothing new by doing this. You obviously didn't read the article then... It's not only an experiment to replicate the big bang but also to create other real world applications, such as replacing silicon in computing devices. Your close mindedness is sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TapUout1 Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 I'm not sure why people, which stand to gain nothing financially, support people risking all of our lives for their own curiosity and enjoyment. If there is merely a chance that they could send the universe into a black hole the project shouldnt be allowed to take place. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 I'm not sure why people' date=' which stand to gain nothing financially, support people risking all of our lives for their own curiosity and enjoyment. If there is merely a chance that they could send the universe into a black hole the project shouldnt be allowed to take place. IMO[/quote'] The black hole theory was created by people with limited knowledge of particle physics and more than likely of religious backgrounds. It's highly unsubstantiated. Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TapUout1 Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 The black hole theory was created by people with limited knowledge of particle physics and more than likely of religious backgrounds. It's highly unsubstantiated. Just saying... I have no idea, i've just heard that anti-matter is a VERY dangerous thing to play around with and i think that little angels and demons was just a way to minimize the feelings on the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbo_Jones Posted February 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 I have no idea' date=' i've just heard that anti-matter is a VERY dangerous thing to play around with and i think that little angels and demons was just a way to minimize the feelings on the subject[/quote'] Colliders are actually designed to create a reaction favoring matter, as opposed to anti-matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike58 Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 create a small black hole, dump a bunch of trash in it, close black hole, world clean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuMaster Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 The so called black hole is not really a hole. It is just a massive void of particles and or gases looking like a world pool, but has enormous gravitational pull like that of a planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike58 Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 hence our trash is compacted into almost nothing in said gravitational pull. I understand its not an empty bucket, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0xyg3n Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 its just not going to make a black hole. the energies are too great, the masses to small and the nuclear forces too strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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