The true Gracie name is unrespectable.

[SamuraiHart]

Before reading this post, Note! I am not disrespecting the Gracie family in anyway, I appreciate everything they have done in the sport and I am not taking anything away from them.

 

The other day I was at my local bookstore looking for a book for my son, when I noticed a book titled Total MMA. It is a 350+ page book over the complete history of Mixed Martial Arts. I just read the first chapter this afternoon, and I am surprised by this information. I applaud the author on exploiting the true side of the Gracie family.

 

Well, as you all probably know, Mr. Helio Gracie had a huge run in with the greatest grappler of all time Masahiko Kimura. Thousands of people showed up to this fight, including the president of Brazil. Kimura ended up breaking Helio's arm in the now famous Kimura lock and Gracie's corner threw in the towel, making Kimura the victor by TKO. After the fight, the Gracies were outraged and began making up excuses on the lose. They made comments such as "Kimura outweighed him by too much, he was 220 pounds." Even though Kimura weighed in at 180 pounds and Helio was 177. Then they made the statement that before the fight Masahiko said to them that if Helio lasted more then 3 minutes with him, then it was a moral victory for the Gracies. Which in reality, is a complete Gracie myth. Kimura never said anything before the fight. And on top of this, Helio bought a coffin and brought it to the fight, saying that "It is for Kimura.". Obviously very egotistic indeed.

 

Now, in more modern times, a certain Mr. Kazushi Sakuraba had a rivalry with the Gracie name. He fought Royler Gracie at Pride 8. Kazushi won with a Kimura lock and the refree stopped the fight, fearing the arm was going to snap. Again, the Gracies were outraged. My least favorite Gracie, Rickson, became trashing Sakuraba and saying his win was tainted among a bible of excuses. Saying that he thinks Sakuraba is a chicken because when Royler called him to the ground, Kazushi never engaged. Which is quite humorous, since when Sakuraba after the fight called out Rickson, Rickson never fought Saku. So who is the chicken?

 

There are many other details to this exploitation, so I suggest picking up the book. It is a fantastic read if you are a huge MMA fan like myself. Any comments?

[AvengerdDub]

what point are you getting at?

 

that we should get this book based on he said she saids?

 

how are you not making a hit towards the Gracie name by your thread? saying that name is unrespectable? I've trained with a few Gracie's, complete and utter respect for the Gracie name and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu

[Insomnium]

I have read and own the book. Although that section provided alot of information that COULD be right, the fellow before me is correct. It is alot of he said, she said.

 

It truly is a fascinating book, though.

[Kable]

Without the Gracie's MMA wouldn't be as good as it is, that's a simple fact.

[SamuraiHart]

what point are you getting at?

 

that we should get this book based on he said she saids?

 

how are you not making a hit towards the Gracie name by your thread? saying that name is unrespectable? I've trained with a few Gracie's' date=' complete and utter respect for the Gracie name and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu[/quote']

 

Good point. To be honest, I do not like Helio or Rickson Gracie. The rest of the family I respect.

[KRYME]

Yeah I don't get the 'unrespectable' part

 

-buy the ticket. take the ride.

[1roycegracie]

Without the Gracie's MMA wouldn't be as good as it is' date=' that's a simple fact.[/quote']

 

This.

[Coltrane]

didn't the Gracie's start the UFC?

[1roycegracie]

didn't the Gracie's start the UFC?

 

Rorion Gracie had a lot do with it.

[hitchy17]

Good point. To be honest' date=' I do not like Helio or Rickson Gracie. The rest of the family I respect.[/quote']

 

How the **** do you not like helio??

 

if it wasnt for helio then the gracie family would not have a name, u basings ur dislike of him from a book that you read telling one side and its all he say she say... and honestly bringing a coffin to a fight... pretty sure we've seen Tito do worse stuff that that before and after a fight

[Hendoforpresident]

Before reading this post' date=' [b']Note![/b] I am not disrespecting the Gracie family in anyway, I appreciate everything they have done in the sport and I am not taking anything away from them.

 

The other day I was at my local bookstore looking for a book for my son, when I noticed a book titled Total MMA. It is a 350+ page book over the complete history of Mixed Martial Arts. I just read the first chapter this afternoon, and I am surprised by this information. I applaud the author on exploiting the true side of the Gracie family.

 

Well, as you all probably know, Mr. Helio Gracie had a huge run in with the greatest grappler of all time Masahiko Kimura. Thousands of people showed up to this fight, including the president of Brazil. Kimura ended up breaking Helio's arm in the now famous Kimura lock and Gracie's corner threw in the towel, making Kimura the victor by TKO. After the fight, the Gracies were outraged and began making up excuses on the lose. They made comments such as "Kimura outweighed him by too much, he was 220 pounds." Even though Kimura weighed in at 180 pounds and Helio was 177. Then they made the statement that before the fight Masahiko said to them that if Helio lasted more then 3 minutes with him, then it was a moral victory for the Gracies. Which in reality, is a complete Gracie myth. Kimura never said anything before the fight. And on top of this, Helio bought a coffin and brought it to the fight, saying that "It is for Kimura.". Obviously very egotistic indeed.

 

Now, in more modern times, a certain Mr. Kazushi Sakuraba had a rivalry with the Gracie name. He fought Royler Gracie at Pride 8. Kazushi won with a Kimura lock and the refree stopped the fight, fearing the arm was going to snap. Again, the Gracies were outraged. My least favorite Gracie, Rickson, became trashing Sakuraba and saying his win was tainted among a bible of excuses. Saying that he thinks Sakuraba is a chicken because when Royler called him to the ground, Kazushi never engaged. Which is quite humorous, since when Sakuraba after the fight called out Rickson, Rickson never fought Saku. So who is the chicken?

 

There are many other details to this exploitation, so I suggest picking up the book. It is a fantastic read if you are a huge MMA fan like myself. Any comments?

 

wouldnt that be a technical submission?

cuz he didnt tap and the thing broke

not a TKO

if you dont know that then you dont know MMA so...what you have said is irrelevant

[Vaseline]

only gracie i like or care about it royce

[BType13x2]

I'm going to say something that might piss alot of people off, but this is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

 

I respect what the Gracies did for MMA and their legacy is shown pretty much everytime a fight goes to the mat. However some of the things that they do are not honorable, I'd say they are borderline childish at times. The have in the past chose to selectively teach people training with them saving certain techniques for family members only. IT wasn't until it was financially damaging to them that they stopped doing this.

 

Then we get to the Gracie challenge nonsense, prime example, the Gracies challenged, Gene Labelle to a match, but they wanted the man who was almost 60 to fight Rickson Gracie who was alot younger and in much better shape then him at the time. Labelle responds by saying he would instead fight Helio who was closer in age to him. In response back The Gracies agreed to this only if Lebell would fight him at 140lbs..... Lebell weighed about 200lbs at the time. Kind of rediculous really.

 

Now we get to this other fact, the gracies seem to feel that if you beat one of them, another member of their family is entitled to a rematch with you. Okay I have no problem with someone wanting to avenge their losses, but how about the person who lost actually does their own dirty work? That is by in far a much more honorable approach then say losing, waiting for the person that beat you to age abit get out of shape and then sending a younger Gracie in much better shape off to "Avenge" this loss.

 

Again I respect what they did for the sport but I have hard time respecting all of their actions.

[Lechero]

Good point. To be honest' date=' I do not like Helio or Rickson Gracie. The rest of the family I respect.[/quote']

 

You don't like Helio or Rickson? first of all when Helio fought Kimura he was 43 and Kimura was 25.

 

They have a video of the match and you could see that Kimura was alot bigger than Helio.

 

Now Rickson would've destroyed Sakuraba during that time, sadly though his son Rockson died in a Motorcycle crash in New York while visiting his cousin Renzo.

 

Being that his son died he never fought again, after that Renzo fought Sakuraba instead whom was beating Sakuraba during the whole fight until he got caught 13 seconds left in the fight with a Kimura.

 

The internet if full of lies saying that Rockson had a drug overdose and misconstruing the real story.

 

Rorion started the UFC the idea of using a OCTAGON was Rorion's idea. So without Helio there wouldn't be no such thing as UFC

[BBNAS]

This thread is so stupid I don't even want to argue against it

 

On a side note, heres the video of the gracie/kimura fight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSPL2BFepgU, ignore the narration if you like though you can't argue the obvious size difference and the wonderful technique Helio displays. The gracies also always show respect to the fact ju-jitsu started in japan

[SamuraiHart]

How the **** do you not like helio??

 

if it wasnt for helio then the gracie family would not have a name' date=' u basings ur dislike of him from a book that you read telling one side and its all he say she say... and honestly bringing a coffin to a fight... pretty sure we've seen Tito do worse stuff that that before and after a fight[/quote']

 

And I don't like Tito either? Look, my apoligies for the title, I do respect the entire Gracie family. But it isn't he says she says type of book, guys. If you have 20 dollars go out and buy it. It has actual interviews by Mr. Helio Gracie, and it had information from Kimura's side. It isn't like this dude just went out there and started writing a book on anything. Get your facts straight.

[SamuraiHart]

wouldnt that be a technical submission?

cuz he didnt tap and the thing broke

not a TKO

if you dont know that then you dont know MMA so...what you have said is irrelevant

 

No, it would be a technical submission if the refree stopped the fight. Helio's corner threw in the towel, thus making it a TKO. Idiot.

[t0xyg3n]

Gracie isn't unrespectable its just not perfect.

 

In the Kimura bout, Gracie was choked unconscious but came to after Kimura released and he was atleast dazed from the many high magnitude throws Kimura had.

 

Sakuraba is a great submission fighter, he could be a ADCC or Mundial champ... but he wasn't a well rounded fighter. So he was almost molded to beat the Gracies but he was deficient in other areas because of it.

 

So you see, Gracie is a reputable name in BJJ and MMA, just not at the DEMIGOD LIKE status that they once held.

[150dbXfitter]

Gracie isn't unrespectable its just not perfect.

 

In the Kimura bout' date=' Gracie was choked unconscious but came to after Kimura released and he was atleast dazed from the many high magnitude throws Kimura had.

 

Sakuraba is a great submission fighter, he could be a ADCC or Mundial champ... but he wasn't a well rounded fighter. So he was almost molded to beat the Gracies but he was deficient in other areas because of it.

 

So you see, Gracie is a reputable name in BJJ and MMA, just not at the DEMIGOD LIKE status that they once held.[/quote']

 

+1 The Gracies are mortals and due to that they are not perfect. I actually think that many families could take a page from their way of looking at it. If the family is so close that another is willing to take on someone who just beat another family member in a fight, kudos to them. At least it stays in the ring (I think).

 

Saying this or that family is unrespectable due to some childish antics is like saying Eddie Bravo can't be respected because he likes to get baked. He may be a stoner but

10th Planet BJJ has added some very valuable things to the no gi side of things. MMA in general would be a shell of its' current self with out the things the Gracies and others have brought to the table.

 

On another note I found that Rickson was a decent guy when I got to train with him, he is just all business when he rolls with you, by roll with you I mean taps you in roughly 20 seconds.

[FirstHero]

Umm, this is basic knowledge of the gracies in the Mma world. They're in no shape the epitome of honor or respect. They've been known to choke out opponets past tap-out for lulz. Ruthless family though.

[JujitsWho]

wouldnt that be a technical submission?

cuz he didnt tap and the thing broke

not a TKO

if you dont know that then you dont know MMA so...what you have said is irrelevant

 

No, throwing in the towel is usually ruled a TKO, but can be ruled a submission as well

 

A technical submission is when the ref stops the match due to an injury or a fighter passing out in a choke.....usually if its a choke the will just call it a submission, but if a fighter is injuried they will stop it and call it a technical submission

 

By rule a technical submission could also be ruled a TKO though.....depending on the rules used by the promotion

[SamuraiHart]

Gracie isn't unrespectable its just not perfect.

 

In the Kimura bout' date=' Gracie was choked unconscious but came to after Kimura released and he was atleast dazed from the many high magnitude throws Kimura had.

 

Sakuraba is a great submission fighter, he could be a ADCC or Mundial champ... but he wasn't a well rounded fighter. So he was almost molded to beat the Gracies but he was deficient in other areas because of it.

 

So you see, Gracie is a reputable name in BJJ and MMA, just not at the DEMIGOD LIKE status that they once held.[/quote']

 

Great point. And once again, I did not mean to title it "unrespectable", I just couldn't think of another word to describe what I meant.

[t0xyg3n]

Great point. And once again' date=' I did not mean to title it "unrespectable", I just couldn't think of another word to describe what I meant.[/quote']

 

well to say unrespectable is really insulting. i know if someone said that about my family there would be an issue. if you can't find the right word error away from offensive.

[TechniqueSeeker]

well to say unrespectable is really insulting. i know if someone said that about my family there would be an issue. if you can't find the right word error away from offensive.

 

It does really depend on who is reading it. For example, when I read the title and then read the opening post, I understood the connection. He was describing what was said in the book and putting out to us to see if it could be considered unrespectable behavior as far as some of their actions are concerned, not them personally or what they have done for the sport. Also he did state in that opening post it was not meant to disrespect them.

[slack_415]

theres 2 sides to every story

[BType13x2]

+1 The Gracies are mortals and due to that they are not perfect. I actually think that many families could take a page from their way of looking at it. If the family is so close that another is willing to take on someone who just beat another family member in a fight' date=' kudos to them. At least it stays in the ring (I think).

[/quote']

 

How is this any different then say you beating me up and me going and getting my brother to go kick your **** for it? Is that honorable on my part? Does that do a service to my family name? No it doesn't so why is it honorable for the Gracies to do just this in the MMA world?

 

Is it honorable for a 20 year old to go challenge a guy who is almost 60 to a fight to show that your fighting system is superior? I don't think it is.

 

You can respect what a group has done for a sport as a whole without respecting the people that make up that group. The Gracies helped MMA become what it is today and thanks for it, but some of the crap they do is inexcusable.

[Trodrigues]

Before reading this post' date=' [b']Note![/b] I am not disrespecting the Gracie family in anyway, I appreciate everything they have done in the sport and I am not taking anything away from them.

 

The other day I was at my local bookstore looking for a book for my son, when I noticed a book titled Total MMA. It is a 350+ page book over the complete history of Mixed Martial Arts. I just read the first chapter this afternoon, and I am surprised by this information. I applaud the author on exploiting the true side of the Gracie family.

 

Well, as you all probably know, Mr. Helio Gracie had a huge run in with the greatest grappler of all time Masahiko Kimura. Thousands of people showed up to this fight, including the president of Brazil. Kimura ended up breaking Helio's arm in the now famous Kimura lock and Gracie's corner threw in the towel, making Kimura the victor by TKO. After the fight, the Gracies were outraged and began making up excuses on the lose. They made comments such as "Kimura outweighed him by too much, he was 220 pounds." Even though Kimura weighed in at 180 pounds and Helio was 177. Then they made the statement that before the fight Masahiko said to them that if Helio lasted more then 3 minutes with him, then it was a moral victory for the Gracies. Which in reality, is a complete Gracie myth. Kimura never said anything before the fight. And on top of this, Helio bought a coffin and brought it to the fight, saying that "It is for Kimura.". Obviously very egotistic indeed.

 

Now, in more modern times, a certain Mr. Kazushi Sakuraba had a rivalry with the Gracie name. He fought Royler Gracie at Pride 8. Kazushi won with a Kimura lock and the refree stopped the fight, fearing the arm was going to snap. Again, the Gracies were outraged. My least favorite Gracie, Rickson, became trashing Sakuraba and saying his win was tainted among a bible of excuses. Saying that he thinks Sakuraba is a chicken because when Royler called him to the ground, Kazushi never engaged. Which is quite humorous, since when Sakuraba after the fight called out Rickson, Rickson never fought Saku. So who is the chicken?

 

There are many other details to this exploitation, so I suggest picking up the book. It is a fantastic read if you are a huge MMA fan like myself. Any comments?

 

I agree with a lot of things that you said, specially about rickson who is an *******.

 

I have this book(image from google)

http://www.grapplingstore.com/contents/media/l_Gracie%20Jiu-Jitsu%20Book.JPG

 

It tells the gracie family's story and teaches a lot of techniques(most of them unuseful for a BJJ praticioner because the book is 70% self-defense techniques), and it tells everything you just said. Kimura broke h?lio's arm because he didn't want to tap, and he even admits he passed out at one part of the fight and suddently woken up(kimura didn't seeit ).

 

Kimura broke h?lio's arm because he didn't want to tap, and he even admits he passed out at one part of the fight and suddently woken up(kimura didn't seeit ).

Kimura was a lot heavier then H?lio, who had a weak physique, and this weak body was the main reason why H?lio felt the JapaneseJiuJitsu needed a change, so he applied techniques which even a woman could do into it, and survived 12 minutes of fight.

 

I don't know if there is any lie on this book(like you said it was), I'm thankful to H?lio and the other creators of BJJ for creating it, but I really don't know what to think about gracies, Royce lost some of my respect for using steroids, and rickson, wtf rickson.. you just need to listen to him, the guy thinks he is the most feared man on the planet, his 11 fights were against crap fighters and everytime he had the chance of fighting someone decent he just created an excuse.