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Socialized Medicine


Megasoup

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Before I begin to get to terribly intricate, let me dismantle some naysayers arguments.

 

Doctors aren't going to leave the country. Where are they going to go?

 

The youth of America who currently have dreams of being a physician aren't going to change their plans and become accountants or architects.

 

The Pharmaceutical Industry isn't going to change their plans and start manufacturing potato chips.

 

The hospital buildings are well built and aren't going to crumble to the ground.

 

The professors at the Medical Schools aren't going to start teaching medicine that doesn't work.

 

Let me just throw some things out there to think about. Republicans are against raising the minimum wage, or having a minimum wage at all. They are against requiring employers to provide healthcare and they are against Socialized medicine. They are against ANY form of welfare or unemployment benefits. Without any of these things, our standard of living would be similiar to inhabitants of Bangladesh, where many companies are in the process of building factories to take advantage of these people.

 

Healthcare in countries with socialized medicine is fine. My family is from Australia (I'm American all the way) and things are great there. The Scandanavian countries are reported to have the highest standards of living worldwide. There is no crisis going on in the UK.

 

Those that use the argument that healthcare is not a right are retarded. What are rights? Who defines them? We live in a world where it is possible for every man, woman and child to have healthcare...and healthcare is a good thing...so let's do it. I don't care if some fat cat billionaire has to buy a smaller yacht. If some poor kid needs a heart transplant, I'm not going to listen to some cruel jerk telling me that healtcare is a privelage.

 

Nobody gets rich on their own. They gain their wealth through the efforts of every worker under them who sweat and toil the hours away. They OWE us. This whole notion of how "they work hard for their money" is B.S. Nobody works harder than a guy on a concrete foundation crew.

 

I could go on, but I'll instead respond to supporters and naysayers who post.

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If health care in other countries is so wonderful for everyone why are there countless cases of people seeking to get care in the US because they would have died on the thier countries "Waiting list"

 

I totally agree something needs to be done but America needs a custom plan. Not one based on what bairly works for other countries.

 

Sorry but there are many flaws in this plan and it will end up making the US economy even worse and it doesn't need a kick in the balls right now. This plan is worse than a Gonzaga kick.

 

One major problem is small businesses. Good bye full time employees.

 

Most of all though I see this as nothing more than a prelude to throwing the little freedoms we have left right out the window.

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If health care in other countries is so wonderful for everyone why are there countless cases of people seeking to get care in the US because they would have died on the thier countries "Waiting list"

 

If someone in Canada has a serious medical issue that could be fatal they will be pushed to the front of the line no questions asked, they will not be forced to wait and hope they get their procedure in time. People that do go to the US for healthcare are people who can afford it and dont want to wait for non-life threatening issues or like the Premier from out east who didnt want to wait in a line with the rest of the people that need transplants as they are all life threatening so you can't be pushed to the front, so he want to the US for his transplant.

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If someone in Canada has a serious medical issue that could be fatal they will be pushed to the front of the line no questions asked' date=' they will not be forced to wait and hope they get their procedure in time. People that do go to the US for healthcare are people who can afford it and dont want to wait for non-life threatening issues or like the Premier from out east who didnt want to wait in a line with the rest of the people that need transplants as they are all life threatening so you can't be pushed to the front.[/quote']

 

This is true for the most part but not for every case. If they won't pay for a certain test because it's deemed rare for thier age. What do they do? Die waiting to reach a certain age or go somewhere else.

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I like being able to pick and choose when I go to the Doctor and what Doctor I will see.[/img]

 

I'm not sure how different the bill the US is passing compared to Canada but I also like to choose who my doctor is and when I see my doctor, then I show him my Alberta Health Card and leave.

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healthcarecrisis_lg.jpg

 

Im not sure where you guys hear that people in Canada are dying left, right and center from poor Health Care but I live in Canada and I hear of no such horror stories. I have heard of people in the US being turned away from certain hospitals if they can't pay first.

 

And no a cartoon is not an example Fast, nice try lol

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If health care in other countries is so wonderful for everyone why are there countless cases of people seeking to get care in the US because they would have died on the thier countries "Waiting list"

 

I totally agree something needs to be done but America needs a custom plan. Not one based on what bairly works for other countries.

 

Sorry but there are many flaws in this plan and it will end up making the US economy even worse and it doesn't need a kick in the balls right now. This plan is worse than a Gonzaga kick.

 

One major problem is small businesses. Good bye full time employees.

 

Most of all though I see this as nothing more than a prelude to throwing the little freedoms we have left right out the window.

 

I'm sick of hearing about these "countless cases." If there are so many cases, give me an example. What country(ies) are these patients coming from? What kinds of illnesses are we talking about? What do you know about this plan put forth by the president? Please don't quote a talk show or a so-called authority that you've spoken to. Tell me what you know.

 

As far as small businesses go, if one was starting a small business, wouldn't it be nice to know that coverage is assured? What if an employee pays into a healthcare plan for years and then one day decides to open a small business, takes some short cuts (figuring, he's healthy, he'll start a policy in a couple of months) and then comes down with a serious illness. Does the insurance company take into account all those years of premium he paid?

 

What if this same prospectice small business owner wants to do everything legit and start a policy but has a preexisting condition?

 

I need someone who's debating me to list a specific charge.

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Just to keep the argument the op is making clear, at least countries with guaranteed healthcare have a line to be in. In the US, you either do or don't have access to healthcare.

 

Many companies already keep full time employees to a minimum, to avoid offering insurance. Many people make barely enough to survive, but that is too much too qualify for current assistance plans. This will replace many current plans that are already budgeted for, so the total cost is less than the inflated public numbers that get thrown around.

 

The plan will certainly have flaws, but he arument he makes above is asking people to look at the reality, the actual things that will take place, and stop listening to doomsayers who are not contributing to a better solution.

 

If you plan to contribute and debate in this thread, please be objective, don't be rude, and only supply comments based in fact. I know it will be hard, but please try.

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Before I begin to get to terribly intricate' date=' let me dismantle some naysayers arguments.

 

Doctors aren't going to leave the country. Where are they going to go?

 

The youth of America who currently have dreams of being a physician aren't going to change their plans and become accountants or architects.

 

The Pharmaceutical Industry isn't going to change their plans and start manufacturing potato chips.

 

The hospital buildings are well built and aren't going to crumble to the ground.

 

The professors at the Medical Schools aren't going to start teaching medicine that doesn't work.

 

Let me just throw some things out there to think about. Republicans are against raising the minimum wage, or having a minimum wage at all. They are against requiring employers to provide healthcare and they are against Socialized medicine. They are against ANY form of welfare or unemployment benefits. Without any of these things, our standard of living would be similiar to inhabitants of Bangladesh, where many companies are in the process of building factories to take advantage of these people.

 

Healthcare in countries with socialized medicine is fine. My family is from Australia (I'm American all the way) and things are great there. The Scandanavian countries are reported to have the highest standards of living worldwide. There is no crisis going on in the UK.

 

Those that use the argument that healthcare is not a right are retarded. What are rights? Who defines them? We live in a world where it is possible for every man, woman and child to have healthcare...and healthcare is a good thing...so let's do it. I don't care if some fat cat billionaire has to buy a smaller yacht. If some poor kid needs a heart transplant, I'm not going to listen to some cruel jerk telling me that healtcare is a privelage.

 

Nobody gets rich on their own. They gain their wealth through the efforts of every worker under them who sweat and toil the hours away. They OWE us. This whole notion of how "they work hard for their money" is B.S. Nobody works harder than a guy on a concrete foundation crew.

 

I could go on, but I'll instead respond to supporters and naysayers who post.[/quote']

 

You are spouted off substance with zero content, how do you know thiese things....The government has failed miserably in any program they have ever attempted to run (medicare, medcaid, social security, fannie mae and freddie mac) In capital markets in promotes inefficiency. as far as minimum wage goes in capital markets we would have zero unemployment without minimum wage and salary would be determined strictly on supply and demand if you think you deserve more money then you should A.) change companies or B.) develop a skill set that gives you a competitive advantage in the job market.............All of your points are based on someone that has zero knowledge on economics or how these policies dectate an outcome. You can not say this will not happen on every point when every federal program ever inserted in to our economy has failed miserably......Different countries have different structures that suit their form of lifestyle and which seem to work well within their structure...and just because it works well in one particular way does not mean it will fair well in another......its like taking a practice from one completely different industry with completely different variables and applying it to another...its irrational...thats why it is important to have an understanding of cause and effect within an economic structure an applying accordingly

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Let us look at the pros and cons

 

First the Pros

The number of uninsured citizens has grown to over 45 million (although this number includes illegal immigrants, etc.).

Health care has become increasingly unaffordable for businesses and individuals.

We can eliminate wasteful inefficiencies such as duplicate paper work, claim approval, insurance submission, etc.

We can develop a centralized national database which makes diagnosis and treatment easier for doctors.

Medical professionals can concentrate on healing the patient rather than on insurance procedures, malpractice liability, etc.

Free medical services would encourage patients to practice preventive medicine and inquire about problems early when treatment will be light; currently, patients often avoid physicals and other preventive measures because of the costs.

Patients with pre-existing conditions can still get health coverage.

 

 

Now the cons

 

There isn't a single government agency or division that runs efficiently; do we really want an organization that developed the U.S. Tax Code handling something as complex as health care?

"Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes; expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, etc.

Profit motives, competition, and individual ingenuity have always led to greater cost control and effectiveness.

Government-controlled health care would lead to a decrease in patient flexibility.

The health-care industry likely will become infused with the same kind of corruption, back-room dealing, and special-interest-dominated sleeze that is already prevalent in other areas of government.

Patients aren't likely to curb their drug costs and doctor visits if health care is free; thus, total costs will be several times what they are now.

Just because Americans are uninsured doesn't mean they can't receive health care; nonprofits and government-run hospitals provide services to those who don't have insurance, and it is illegal to refuse emergency medical service because of a lack of insurance.

Government-mandated procedures will likely reduce doctor flexibility and lead to poor patient care.

Healthy people who take care of themselves will have to pay for the burden of those who smoke, are obese, etc.

A long, painful transition will have to take place involving lost insurance industry jobs, business closures, and new patient record creation.

Loss of private practice options and possible reduced pay may dissuade many would-be doctors from pursuing the profession.

Malpractice lawsuit costs, which are already sky-high, could further explode since universal care may expose the government to legal liability, and the possibility to sue someone with deep pockets usually invites more lawsuits.

Government is more likely to pass additional restrictions or increase taxes on smoking, fast food, etc., leading to a further loss of personal freedoms.

Patient confidentiality is likely to be compromised since centralized health information will likely be maintained by the government.

Health care equipment, drugs, and services may end up being rationed by the government. In other words, politics, lifestyle of patients, and philosophical differences of those in power, could determine who gets what.

Patients may be subjected to extremely long waits for treatment.

Like social security, any government benefit eventually is taken as a "right" by the public, meaning that it's politically near impossible to remove or curtail it later on when costs get out of control.

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Just to keep the argument the op is making clear' date=' at least countries with guaranteed healthcare have a line to be in. In the US, you either do or don't have access to healthcare.

 

Many companies already keep full time employees to a minimum, to avoid offering insurance. Many people make barely enough to survive, but that is too much too qualify for current assistance plans. This will replace many current plans that are already budgeted for, so the total cost is less than the inflated public numbers that get thrown around.

 

The plan will certainly have flaws, but he arument he makes above is asking people to look at the reality, the actual things that will take place, and stop listening to doomsayers who are not contributing to a better solution.

 

If you plan to contribute and debate in this thread, please be objective, don't be rude, and only supply comments based in fact. I know it will be hard, but please try.[/quote']

 

its called prioritizing by the american consumer:

It should be

1.health care

2.mortgage

3. automobile (within reason)

 

instead it is

1. Escalade

2. Clothes you buy to impress people, you don't even know

3. More sh*t you don't need

4. mortgage

5. healthcare

 

second part healthcare does need adjusting but from a cost perspective, reform without looking at the real root of all evil (the cost to practice medicine) will be a huge burden on the taxpayer and further drown America in the debt it is already in.

 

Healthcare reform does sound nice however it is not feasible not with our government behind the wheel...their track record speaks for itself

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Do you have an example of that?

 

No I don't but I will look for it. Im almost certain the woman was from the UK and yes she would have died if she didn't come to america to get the test she needed.

 

And no It wasn't a Fox news story. I can't stand those fear mongorers. I think I saw it on CNN or read it on the net can't remember which.

 

Im not Republican, nor am I a Democrat so I have no bias here. I tend to look at things and make my own decision unlike alot of other people who just go with whatever thier parties view is.

 

Im just against most of the ideas with the current plan which is riddled with flaws. I just really don't think it will work well for america. We have alot of people and it's utterly unsustainable what thier proposing and sadly what it's law now.

 

Even though it may not change much for me I still don't like it. Most of all though I don't like the idea of being force fed. Which opens a can of worms e.g...What's next. Will I get fined for taking a piss without permission.

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Before I begin to get to terribly intricate' date=' let me dismantle some naysayers arguments.

 

Doctors aren't going to leave the country. Where are they going to go?

 

The youth of America who currently have dreams of being a physician aren't going to change their plans and become accountants or architects.

 

The Pharmaceutical Industry isn't going to change their plans and start manufacturing potato chips.

 

The hospital buildings are well built and aren't going to crumble to the ground.

 

The professors at the Medical Schools aren't going to start teaching medicine that doesn't work.

 

[b']Let me just throw some things out there to think about. Republicans are against raising the minimum wage, or having a minimum wage at all. They are against requiring employers to provide healthcare and they are against Socialized medicine. They are against ANY form of welfare or unemployment benefits. Without any of these things, our standard of living would be similiar to inhabitants of Bangladesh, where many companies are in the process of building factories to take advantage of these people.[/b]

 

Healthcare in countries with socialized medicine is fine. My family is from Australia (I'm American all the way) and things are great there. The Scandanavian countries are reported to have the highest standards of living worldwide. There is no crisis going on in the UK.

 

Those that use the argument that healthcare is not a right are retarded. What are rights? Who defines them? We live in a world where it is possible for every man, woman and child to have healthcare...and healthcare is a good thing...so let's do it. I don't care if some fat cat billionaire has to buy a smaller yacht. If some poor kid needs a heart transplant, I'm not going to listen to some cruel jerk telling me that healtcare is a privelage.

 

Nobody gets rich on their own. They gain their wealth through the efforts of every worker under them who sweat and toil the hours away. They OWE us. This whole notion of how "they work hard for their money" is B.S. Nobody works harder than a guy on a concrete foundation crew.

 

I could go on, but I'll instead respond to supporters and naysayers who post.

 

 

When in the other thread you said you were gonna post a new thread about socialized medicine i seriously thought you were gonna have some good arguments. Obviously i assumed wrong... silly me.

 

YOUR whole post is stupidity at its finest. The first part was like some made up assumptions about the beliefs of a generalized people which ive personally never claimed any of them.

 

The parts i bolded im gonna have to give you some new information on. I'm against minimum wage but thats only because of countless hours of research that i just cant even nutshell its so vast. I know it sounds crazy but thats only because you dont understand.

 

And no without welfare or unemployment our standards of living would not be lower silly guy. Thats a straight assumption. WITHOUT JOBS our standard of living goes down. Not however without welfare or unemployment. But thats a whole different argument... this is about socialized medicine.

 

I do agree that free healthcare would be great but thats just not how life works. Hawaii did free health care for anyone under the ages of 18. Thats it. And you know what they couldnt even manage it. It went bankrupt in 6 months. Google it for details.

 

And you expect us to pay for it for our entire country? Thats insane.

 

I like your comment about saying that you dont care if a rich man has to buy a smaller yacht to provide a heart transplant. Well what if it wasnt a heart transplant say, something cheaper like a wheelchair. Something cheap enough you could provide? Like a wheel chair.

 

SO then YOU make a real sacrafice, and you can buy someone a wheel chair! You can say you would but you wouldnt i know you wouldnt. Because you are no better. You think your better and your on some f*cking pedastool but your not. Prove it to the forum. Record yourself giving something up and somehting of value and use that money to buy something really important for someone ok? DO it! Show me your such a ****ing good guy!

 

Ill tell you what SELL your car and ill buy you a moped and ill donate the Value of your car to red cross to provide health care to jacked up haitians right now. I swear to god ill do it and have the moped shipped to you.

 

Point is you WONT do it. Because your no F*cking better! None of us are. We like our comforts. We lilke our starbucks. We like our badass tapout gear. We like our energy drinks. We like our monthly gym fees. We love it all.

 

So step up to the plate and start providing and get off your ****ing **** up and prove to us THROUGH YOUTUBE that you care more than everyone else.

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its called prioritizing by the american consumer:

It should be

1.health care

2.mortgage

3. automobile (within reason)

 

instead it is

1. Escalade

2. Clothes you buy to impress people' date=' you don't even know

3. More sh*t you don't need

4. mortgage

5. healthcare

[/b']

 

 

Thats exactly the problem. Put short and easy.

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No I don't but I will look for it. Im almost certain the woman was from the UK and yes she would have died if she didn't come to america to get the test she needed.

 

And no It wasn't a Fox news story. I can't stand those fear mongorers. I think I saw it on CNN or read it on the net can't remember which.

 

Im not Republican' date=' nor am I a Democrat so I have no bias here. I tend to look at things and make my own decision unlike alot of other people who just go with whatever thier parties view is.

 

Im just against most of the ideas with the current plan which is riddled with flaws. I just really don't think it will work well for america. We have alot of people and it's utterly unsustainable what thier proposing and sadly what it's law now.

 

Even though it may not change much for me I still don't like it. Most of all though I don't like the idea of being force fed. Which opens a can of worms e.g...What's next. Will I get fined for taking a piss without permission.[/quote']

 

If that is true and the woman wasn't just being overly dramatic then there is someone at a hospital in the UK that needs to be taken out back and given a reason to use their healthcare. I have never heard of anything like that, that is just sick.

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As far as small businesses go' date=' if one was starting a small business, wouldn't it be nice to know that coverage is assured? What if an employee pays into a healthcare plan for years and then one day decides to open a small business, takes some short cuts (figuring, he's healthy, he'll start a policy in a couple of months) and then comes down with a serious illness. Does the insurance company take into account all those years of premium he paid? [/b']

 

What if this same prospectice small business owner wants to do everything legit and start a policy but has a preexisting condition?

 

My brother owns a small business. With the cost of running it and having the money to complete his jobs day to day he has little money to cover full time employees with this plan. So guess what any full time employees he had will either be getting fired or have thier hours cut back. So In theory it will create more jobs but alot of people will need two or more part time jobs to get by.

 

Basically this plan is ok for big business ( they can afford it ) but small business gets trashed. Way to go helping the little guy buy kicking them in the balls.

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You are spouted off substance with zero content' date=' how do you know thiese things....The government has failed miserably in any program they have ever attempted to run (medicare, medcaid, social security, fannie mae and freddie mac) In capital markets in promotes inefficiency. as far as minimum wage goes in capital markets we would have zero unemployment without minimum wage and salary would be determined strictly on supply and demand if you think you deserve more money then you should A.) change companies or B.) develop a skill set that gives you a competitive advantage in the job market.............All of your points are based on someone that has zero knowledge on economics or how these policies dectate an outcome. You can not say this will not happen on every point when every federal program ever inserted in to our economy has failed miserably......Different countries have different structures that suit their form of lifestyle and which seem to work well within their structure...and just because it works well in one particular way does not mean it will fair well in another......its like taking a practice from one completely different industry with completely different variables and applying it to another...its irrational...thats why it is important to have an understanding of cause and effect within an economic structure an applying accordingly[/quote']

 

I have to say; a guy who doesn't have a firm grasp of punctuation or spelling is hardly the guy to determine that I have zero knowledge. This is not intended to be a cheap shot, it's just important to put things in perspective. I'm just saying you're probably not qualified.

 

How can you say that Medicaire. Medicaid, Social Security, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have failed miserably? Certainly there have been some flaws, but these instutions have helped millions of people for decades. There are other things that the government has run that have worked out REALLY well. The post office is incredible. For next to nothing a letter or package is delivered anywhere and is almost never misplaced. Our military is the best in the world. Our literacy rate is miles higher than before there was public schools in place.

 

This idea of no minimum wage is ridiculous. Employment conditions in our country were horrendous before there were restrictions put in place. Give me an example of a country without a minimum wage that has a high standard of living for it's inhabitants.

 

This notion that one can just so easily get another skill set is not well thought out. What about people that are dumb? Some people are born stupid. Should we line up people with low IQ's and just send them straight to the rock pile to work until they die from exhaustion. You know the powers that be used to do that. Others that are more fortunate in the brains department may have a family to feed and aren't in a position to just "get another skill set." School costs time and money, you know. Sometimes we''re just talking about some frickin' penicillun for an ear infection dude.

 

I don't need someone to shake their thesaurus/book of technical terminology at me. If you want to make a point, maybe you need to work on your content.

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I have to say; a guy who doesn't have a firm grasp of punctuation or spelling is hardly the guy to determine that I have zero knowledge. This is not intended to be a cheap shot' date=' it's just important to put things in perspective. I'm just saying you're probably not qualified.

 

How can you say that Medicaire. Medicaid, Social Security, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have failed miserably? Certainly there have been some flaws, but these instutions have helped millions of people for decades. There are other things that the government has run that have worked out REALLY well. The post office is incredible. For next to nothing a letter or package is delivered anywhere and is almost never misplaced. Our military is the best in the world. Our literacy rate is miles higher than before there was public schools in place.

 

This idea of no minimum wage is ridiculous. Employment conditions in our country were horrendous before there were restrictions put in place. Give me an example of a country without a minimum wage that has a high standard of living for it's inhabitants.

 

This notion that one can just so easily get another skill set is not well thought out. What about people that are dumb? Some people are born stupid. Should we line up people with low IQ's and just send them straight to the rock pile to work until they die from exhaustion. You know the powers that be used to do that. Others that are more fortunate in the brains department may have a family to feed and aren't in a position to just "get another skill set." School costs time and money, you know. Sometimes we''re just talking about some frickin' penicillun for an ear infection dude.

 

I don't need someone to shake their thesaurus/book of technical terminology at me. If you want to make a point, maybe you need to work on your content.[/quote']

 

Zero knowledge....if you could get by the grammar and spelling (Sorry I'm doing 10 things at one time) They have failed miserably because they are broke!! I would graph out how supply and demand dictate wages but I don't think you could grasp it......If you think you are worth more than $4 dollars an hour develop a skill set and get a better job....you are to fixed on a number other than the substance......

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Zero knowledge....if you could get by the grammar and spelling (Sorry I'm doing 10 things at one time) They have failed miserably because they are broke!! I would graph out how supply and demand dictate wages but I don't think you could grasp it......If you think you are worth more than $4 dollars an hour develop a skill set and get a better job....you are to fixed on a number other than the substance......

 

you also made the argument about dumb people....That's the whole argument if we allow people to try not to progress in society we dont prosper as a country....I can't believe that is your argument!

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My brother owns a small business. With the cost of running it and having the money to complete his jobs day to day he has little money to cover full time employees with this plan. So guess what any full time employees he had will either be getting fired or have thier hours cut back. So In theory it will create more jobs but alot of people will need two or more part time jobs to get by.

 

Basically this plan is ok for big business ( they can afford it ) but small business gets trashed. Way to go helping the little guy buy kicking them in the balls.

 

I'm in support of Socialized Medicine. I never implied that I am for Obama's weak little compromise. , though I admit, I know very little of the details of it. I'm sure everyone else on here has read his bill from cover to cover and hired an attorney to interpret some of the legal terminology.

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I'm in support of Socialized Medicine. I never implied that I am for Obama's weak little compromise. ' date=' though I admit, I know very little of the details of it. I'm sure everyone else on here has read his bill from cover to cover and hired an attorney to interpret some of the legal terminology.[/quote']

 

so how can you be for it, if you don't know what is in there!!!! That is irrational as it gets!! The idea of government intervention is scary, especially with their track record

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I have to say; a guy who doesn't have a firm grasp of punctuation or spelling is hardly the guy to determine that I have zero knowledge. This is not intended to be a cheap shot' date=' it's just important to put things in perspective. I'm just saying you're probably not qualified.

 

[b']How can you say that Medicaire. Medicaid, Social Security, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have failed miserably? Certainly there have been some flaws, but these instutions have helped millions of people for decades. There are other things that the government has run that have worked out REALLY well. The post office is incredible. For next to nothing a letter or package is delivered anywhere and is almost never misplaced. Our military is the best in the world. Our literacy rate is miles higher than before there was public schools in place. [/b]

 

This idea of no minimum wage is ridiculous. Employment conditions in our country were horrendous before there were restrictions put in place. Give me an example of a country without a minimum wage that has a high standard of living for it's inhabitants.

 

This notion that one can just so easily get another skill set is not well thought out. What about people that are dumb? Some people are born stupid. Should we line up people with low IQ's and just send them straight to the rock pile to work until they die from exhaustion. You know the powers that be used to do that. Others that are more fortunate in the brains department may have a family to feed and aren't in a position to just "get another skill set." School costs time and money, you know. Sometimes we''re just talking about some frickin' penicillun for an ear infection dude.

 

I don't need someone to shake their thesaurus/book of technical terminology at me. If you want to make a point, maybe you need to work on your content.

 

The post office is broke. So much for incredible. Hey did you know that UPS and FedEx usually deliver all their packages too and they are privatized... Weird right?

 

All those social programs are broke... and i still get taxed on them... THATS CALLED FAILURE! Regardless what they did, what they are doing now is draining us. And thats a fact. Even Peter O. thinks it and hes the F'IN white house budget director.

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I like being able to pick and choose when I go to the Doctor and what Doctor I will see.

 

 

socialized%20medicine.gif

 

As a Canadian I choose when I go to the Doctor and who I want to see as well. You Americans can argue amongst yourselves all you want but don't bring us into it. Our health care system works for us and for the most part works very well.

 

I would lay money on the line that less people die on a organ donor wait list in Canada than die in the US from not being able to afford insurance or being denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

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I'm in support of Socialized Medicine. I never implied that I am for Obama's weak little compromise. ' date=' though I admit, I know very little of the details of it. I'm sure everyone else on here has read his bill from cover to cover and hired an attorney to interpret some of the legal terminology.[/quote']

 

I have to agree that Obama was unable to deliver what we or he actually wanted.

 

It is just physically impossible to get that through the system.

 

We will be lucky to hang onto half of the stuff he has managed to sign today.

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As a Canadian I choose when I go to the Doctor and who I want to see as well. You Americans can argue amongst yourselves all you want but don't bring us into it. Our health care system works for us and for the most part works very well.

 

I would lay money on the line that less people die on a organ donor wait list in Canada than die in the US from not being able to afford insurance or being denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

 

You also have what? A little over 30 million+ people maybe a little more. We have 300 million+.

 

Still think it will work for us. I don't. The minimal problems yours has will be huge for us.

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Zero knowledge....if you could get by the grammar and spelling (Sorry I'm doing 10 things at one time) They have failed miserably because they are broke!! I would graph out how supply and demand dictate wages but I don't think you could grasp it......If you think you are worth more than $4 dollars an hour develop a skill set and get a better job....you are to fixed on a number other than the substance......

 

Posters keep claiming how could dictate or explain or cite examples, but I wouldn't understand. I dare you guys to back up your knowledge. I'm completely comfortable with the concept of supply and demand.

 

I'm also well aware of other things that determine costs. Advertising in magazines and on television networks. Wining and dining physicians at supposed information briefings about drugs. Outrageous compensation packages for corporate officers. These are just a few things that are controlling costs for the pharmaceutical companies.

 

Commissions for Insurance agents. Individual offices for each agent. The marketing and billing deparments. Each insurance company has their separate underwriting department, actuary department, human resources department.

 

Doctors, many not all, maybe get paid a little much? I know, they save lives! But they claim they do it for the love of humanity. Let's see. I believe this new generation of doctors actually are doing it for these reasons. No more 4th generation doctors who are entitled by birthrite. Another inefficiency is yet another separate office, billing department, secretary and receptionist for every doctor.

 

We can shake these costs pretty easilly.

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You also have what? A little over 30 million+ people maybe a little more. We have 300 million+.

 

Still think it will work for us. I don't. The minimal problems yours has will be huge for us.

 

I don't see how population size has anything to do with it. Its all relative. The US has about a 10x bigger GDP that Canada to go along with the 10x bigger population. It has the doctors and infrastructure to support the bigger population.

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My brother owns a small business. With the cost of running it and having the money to complete his jobs day to day he has little money to cover full time employees with this plan. So guess what any full time employees he had will either be getting fired or have thier hours cut back. So In theory it will create more jobs but alot of people will need two or more part time jobs to get by.

 

Basically this plan is ok for big business ( they can afford it ) but small business gets trashed. Way to go helping the little guy buy kicking them in the balls.

 

I'm in support of Socialized Medicine. I never implied that I am for Obama's weak little compromise. ' date=' though I admit, I know very little of the details of it. I'm sure everyone else on here has read his bill from cover to cover and hired an attorney to interpret some of the legal terminology.[/quote']

 

What a complete cop out. This is the biggest problem with it though. People that are for it don't even realize that it's a recipe for ruin. Including the people that wrote the bill in the first place. I doubt they read it either. They just hurried to pass it with no fore thought so they could pat themselves on the back.

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I don't see how population size has anything to do with it. Its all relative. The US has about a 10x bigger GDP that Canada to go along with the 10x bigger population. It has the doctors and infrastructure to support the bigger population.

 

More people, more illness and more of a burdon on the average person to pay for it all.

 

In the long term it's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

Basically what ever problems other countries have will be compounded ten fold.

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More people' date=' more illness and more of a [b']burdon on the average person to pay for it all.

[/b]

In the long term it's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

Basically what ever problems other countries have will be compounded ten fold.

 

Oh, I didn't know all 350 million of you were going onto government health care.

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I have to agree that Obama was unable to deliver what we or he actually wanted.

 

It is just physically impossible to get that through the system.

 

We will be lucky to hang onto half of the stuff he has managed to sign today.

 

I totally agree...what we got isn't what we should have.

 

We SHOULD have a single payer system. But barring that we should have a PUBLIC OPTION.

 

The problem was we compromised both of those at the outset. We STARTED with the public option and bartered that away. We should have started with single payer and then negotiated down for the public option.

 

And yeah...it's virtually impossible to get anything done in todays system for a myriad of reasons that would probably be pointless to list here.

 

I'll say this....just look at the majority of the responses in this thread. And you'll see why passing meaningful reform is almost impossible. We've got millions of uneducated sheep that toe the line for the Limbaugh's of the word.

 

Cheers sir

 

-DR

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Oh' date=' I didn't know all 350 million of you were going onto government health care.[/quote']

 

Fair enough but alot people simply just can't afford it.

 

I'll give an example

 

Let's say someone is in debt and they can bairly afford to pay that off, pay thier other bills and afford health care. So they drop the health care and pay off thier debt for a few years.

 

If they get fined for doing that ( which is the law now ) what are they supposed to do. Lose thier house so they can pay for healthcare.

 

Also how can you grow an economy when the majority of people have little disposable income as it is.

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No' date=' not "nice." Ignorant and uneducated is more apropos.

 

Simply posting a picture that expresses' an ideological philosophy, does not constitute a coherent argument.

 

It's ignorance and you've thrown your support in with that lot.

 

Brilliant sir, truly.

 

Cheers

 

-DR[/quote']

 

Apparently you didn't get it. I thought the picture was funny and not an argumentive point.

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I totally agree...what we got isn't what we should have.

 

We SHOULD have a single payer system. But barring that we should have a PUBLIC OPTION.

 

The problem was we compromised both of those at the outset. We STARTED with the public option and bartered that away. We should have started with single payer and then negotiated down for the public option.

 

And yeah...it's virtually impossible to get anything done in todays system for a myriad of reasons that would probably be pointless to list here.

 

I'll say this....just look at the majority of the responses in this thread. And you'll see why passing meaningful reform is almost impossible. We've got millions of uneducated sheep that toe the line for the Limbaugh's of the word.

 

Cheers sir

 

-DR

 

Why is it that people still believe that big government is the way to go? All this bill did was give the government more control over an economy that it has way to much control over. Giving them the opurtunity to give the people a public option is ridiculous. Government doesn't exist to compete with insurance companies, it exists to protect us with the most minimal amount of government it can. Glad to see though that Obama has completely underminded the Constitution to grow government.

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