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Is counter striking lame?


shiftysask007

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I know its an art and I know is smart, but its pretty cowardly in a way. Honestly if Silva and Machida faught the first round feel out process would be ridiculous. Is AS better than say Wandy because he is more patient? For anyone who has ever played Socom, Halo, or Gears of War online, the counter strikers are the campers. Its within the rules for sure, but its kind of weasily to always wait for your opponent to make the first move. This is not a troll thread, but I honestly feel a Machida/A. Silva fight (if it ever happened and I know they are friends blah blah blah) would be 5 rounds with like 10 total strikes a round combined. If I had to fight Silva, I would try to get the first punch in and score a point, then just dance and make him come to me. So anyways, is counter striking a kinda cowardly and lame way to fight (when its all you ever do)?

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I know its an art and I know is smart' date=' but its pretty cowardly in a way. Honestly if Silva and Machida faught the first round feel out process would be ridiculous. Is AS better than say Wandy because he is more patient? For anyone who has ever played Socom, Halo, or Gears of War online, the counter strikers are the campers. Its within the rules for sure, but its kind of weasily to always wait for your opponent to make the first move. This is not a troll thread, but I honestly feel a Machida/A. Silva fight (if it ever happened and I know they are friends blah blah blah) would be 5 rounds with like 10 total strikes a round combined. If I had to fight Silva, I would try to get the first punch in and score a point, then just dance and make him come to me. So anyways, is counter striking a kinda cowardly and lame way to fight (when its all you ever do)?[/quote']

 

Not at all. There are martial arts dating back centuries that perfect the art of counter striking. In a sport like MMA where aggression is judged so highly, its perfect to let an aggressive oppenent attack you, make a mistake, and open himself up to a clean shot right on his button. Its genius and not cowardly in the slightest.

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Not at all. There are martial arts dating back centuries that perfect the art of counter striking. In a sport like MMA where aggression is judged so highly' date=' its perfect to let an aggressive oppenent attack you, make a mistake, and open himself up to a clean shot right on his button. Its genius and not cowardly in the slightest.[/quote']

 

nothing else really needs said on this

 

+1

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Counter-striking is the most technical form of striking and if done with ferocity and precision, is also the most beautiful. In no way is it lame....unless it's Lyoto Machida doing it. His counter-style is of the sissiest form imaginable, which probably gives the art a bad wrap.

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Not at all. There are martial arts dating back centuries that perfect the art of counter striking. In a sport like MMA where aggression is judged so highly' date=' its perfect to let an aggressive oppenent attack you, make a mistake, and open himself up to a clean shot right on his button. Its genius and not cowardly in the slightest.[/quote']

 

Yeah I am on the fence on this one, I just wanted to see what everybody else thought. I do agree with some of what you say. Its definately smart to use the counter strategy and its definately more glorious to go in swinging. It is a bit frusterating though having champions who are afraid to engage. I know that its up to the challengers to figure out how to beat the counter striking champs and that Shogun sure provided a good blueprint, but a small unintelligent part of me feels like Machida and Silva a little cowardly. And before everyone jumps on me saying they are not cowards because they step in the cage at all, which I agree with, they are a little more cowardly than aggressive fighters IMO.

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Eventually people will integrate their gameplans to counter guys like Machida and Silva. As of now the only solution i can see to beat them is to attack the legs(what Shogun did) slow down their pace and then methodically take shots to either KO them or take them to the ground.

 

This is probably the hardest thing to accomplish going into a fight because Machida and Silva both pack a large amount of power in their hands and feet, and one slip up will probably lose you the round if not the fight

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Yeah I am on the fence on this one' date=' I just wanted to see what everybody else thought. I do agree with some of what you say. Its definately smart to use the counter strategy and its definately more glorious to go in swinging. It is a bit frusterating though having champions who are afraid to engage. I know that its up to the challengers to figure out how to beat the counter striking champs and that Shogun sure provided a good blueprint, but a small unintelligent part of me feels like Machida and Silva a little cowardly. And before everyone jumps on me saying they are not cowards because they step in the cage at all, which I agree with, they are a little more cowardly than aggressive fighters IMO.[/quote']

 

I disagree, respectivefully of course :)

 

I think you are confusing cowardice with smart fighting. Cowardice in the cage would be something like Houston Alexander/Kimbo Slice, where Alexander literally ran circles around the ring out of firing range because he did not want to engage. Guys like AS, and to a certain extent Machida, stand in the pocket and counterstrike effectively. Now I know Machida stand out of range more then AS, but that is merely a style difference, not one that should be based on the courage of the fighter.

 

Truth is, counter strikers stand right in their opponents wheel houses waiting to be engaged because it is more effective. There are very few "aggressive" strikers in MMA that are ranked as high as counter strikers.

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not at all. There are martial arts dating back centuries that perfect the art of counter striking. In a sport like mma where aggression is judged so highly' date=' its perfect to let an aggressive oppenent attack you, make a mistake, and open himself up to a clean shot right on his button. Its genius and not cowardly in the slightest.[/quote']

 

+100

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Counter-striking is the most technical form of striking and if done with ferocity and precision' date=' is also the most beautiful. [b']In no way is it lame....unless it's Lyoto Machida doing it.[/b] His counter-style is of the sissiest form imaginable, which probably gives the art a bad wrap.

 

You failed my brotha. :P

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Punch someone in the face' date=' if they knock you out with an immediate flurry then it's not so lame. If they reel backward and leave themselves open to more punches then it is.

 

It's lame if you suck at it, it's brilliant if you do it well.[/quote']

 

Another great answer.

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Counter-striking is the most technical form of striking and if done with ferocity and precision' date=' is also the most beautiful. In no way is it lame....[b']unless it's Lyoto Machida doing it. His counter-style is of the sissiest[/b] form imaginable, which probably gives the art a bad wrap.

 

 

really?

 

 

11.gif

 

 

lyotorashadkick.gif

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Counter-striking is the most technical form of striking and if done with ferocity and precision' date=' is also the most beautiful. In no way is it lame....unless it's Lyoto Machida doing it. His counter-style is of the sissiest form imaginable, which probably gives the art a bad wrap.[/quote']

 

u must be jokin.how is knockin out ace, rashad, the tiago and many others wit counterstriking lame.douchbag

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It is difficult to block countered strikes when your limbs are extended. Therefore, countering is a very effective way to crack an opponent in the mouth, who would almost certainly otherwise be covering up with a high block. So essentially a good counter-striker uses your aggression against you and will exploit the openings that occur when hands and feet are extended on offense. This can certainly backfire if the aggressor lands anything significant on the exchange, but done with great accuracy and speed we've seen it a lot in fights, counter-striking works great for ending fights.

 

I have to agree though, that two fighters with very disciplined game plans to only counter would tend to be a dance competition. If both fighters insist on countering, who will throw the first punch? In reality this probably turns into a leg kick festival like Rua vs. Machida. A festival that Rua should have won.

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There's something to be said about being one-dimensional. This applies to being a guy who only counters his opponents. That is when it's lame.

 

When this sport evolves a little more, we'll see people countering the counter. As of now the attempts to counter the counter are in the form of feints. But a more confident striker can throw a calculated punch, knowing it won't connect nor trying to make it connect, anticipating the opponents counterstrike and countering them. It's kind of tough to do, but by no means an impossible feat. I've done it in the gym and in fights (boxing.) It's like a feint, but with more commitment.

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I disagree' date=' respectivefully of course :)

 

I think you are confusing cowardice with smart fighting. Cowardice in the cage would be something like Houston Alexander/Kimbo Slice, where Alexander literally ran circles around the ring out of firing range because he did not want to engage. Guys like AS, and to a certain extent Machida, stand in the pocket and counterstrike effectively. Now I know Machida stand out of range more then AS, but that is merely a style difference, not one that should be based on the courage of the fighter.

 

Truth is, counter strikers stand right in their opponents wheel houses waiting to be engaged because it is more effective. [b']There are very few "aggressive" strikers in MMA that are ranked as high as counter strikers[/b].

 

This is my point. Its easier to counter strike. Is A. Silva that much of a better fighter than Wandy or is he just more patient. This is mixed martial arts not mixed patience arts.

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I know its an art and I know is smart' date=' but its pretty cowardly in a way. Honestly if Silva and Machida faught the first round feel out process would be ridiculous. Is AS better than say Wandy because he is more patient? For anyone who has ever played Socom, Halo, or Gears of War online, the counter strikers are the campers. Its within the rules for sure, but its kind of weasily to always wait for your opponent to make the first move. This is not a troll thread, but I honestly feel a Machida/A. Silva fight (if it ever happened and I know they are friends blah blah blah) would be 5 rounds with like 10 total strikes a round combined. If I had to fight Silva, I would try to get the first punch in and score a point, then just dance and make him come to me. So anyways, is counter striking a kinda cowardly and lame way to fight (when its all you ever do)?[/quote']

 

yes i think counter striking is very lame,

 

think about it if everyone was a counter striker there would NEVER be any fighting.

 

like with Silva unless you throw a punch he wont.

 

the way I see it anyone can be better if they counter punch and they can ko more people

 

but its just some people go to actually fight and are willing to take a risk, counter punchers

 

wont take a risk, and they look good cause they usually fight people who arent puzzies

 

and arent afraid of striking first.

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I disagree' date=' respectivefully of course :)

 

I think you are confusing cowardice with smart fighting. Cowardice in the cage would be something like Houston Alexander/Kimbo Slice, where Alexander literally ran circles around the ring out of firing range because he did not want to engage. Guys like AS, and to a certain extent Machida, stand in the pocket and counterstrike effectively. Now I know Machida stand out of range more then AS, but that is merely a style difference, not one that should be based on the courage of the fighter.

 

Truth is, counter strikers stand right in their opponents wheel houses waiting to be engaged because it is more effective. There are very few "aggressive" strikers in MMA that are ranked as high as counter strikers.[/quote']

 

One big thing is though that usually Machinda will revert to a plan B if needed. He did this with Tito for example and use other options to win the fight. Anderson Silva on the other hand if his style is getting the job done he won't revert to taking the lead.

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There's something to be said about being one-dimensional. This applies to being a guy who only counters his opponents. That is when it's lame.

 

When this sport evolves a little more' date=' we'll see people countering the counter. As of now the attempts to counter the counter are in the form of feints. But a more confident striker can throw a calculated punch, knowing it won't connect nor trying to make it connect, anticipating the opponents counterstrike and countering them. It's kind of tough to do, but by no means an impossible feat. I've done it in the gym and in fights (boxing.) It's like a feint, but with more commitment.[/quote']

 

this is a good point, counter striking isnt lame, but fighters who can only counter

 

(SILVA) are lame.

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the way i see it... A silva and machida are quickly going to become obsolete once these other strikers take Aldos road and realize that YES you can counter strike WHILE pressing the action. the key is pressing your opponent untill they have to strike their way out and counter from there. leg kicks are very key in this approach as seen from shogun, and as an even better example, from aldo when he fought faber.

 

anderson silva is an amazing striker, and when he sees that he can overwhelm someone... he'll do it unless for some reason they are maia... in which case... wtf was that. but the fact is you dont need to be backing up the whole time to perform precise counter shots, and sometimes pressing the action can force your opponent to commit and make mistakes that provide good countering opportunities.

 

i think the best examples of these types of fighters are: Aldo, paul daly, and j bones.

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Counter Striking is probaly also the more effective way to limit take down chances against a ground fighter. If you are back peddling its easier to stuff or avoid a shot then coming forward. Moving forward opens a striker up to a double leg.

 

That said, I wish the old Silva would come back. The guy that was grabbing the plum against Franklin and crushing him in his clinch with viscous knees. I personally enjoyed that Silva much more than the counter striking dancer we saw agaist Maia.

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It is definitely an effective technique; however, I disagree that Shogun was at fault for "not finishing the fight."

 

Being anymore willing to engage (IE. straight up charging Lyoto) would have gotten him knocked out in my opinion.

 

That being said, I enjoy Lyoto's style the most of any MMA fighters (reminds me more of the type of fighter you see in movies), but everyone (mostly Lyoto fans) that I watched that fight with agreed that he had lost the fight up until the point where the decision was announced.

 

Of course the announcers don't help a lot of the times, but even in slowed replays, I felt that Lyoto had lost and while it was going on, I actually thought he was going to get TKO'd just by the look on his face and the way he was limping towards the end of the match.

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I know its an art and I know is smart' date=' but its pretty cowardly in a way. Honestly if Silva and Machida faught the first round feel out process would be ridiculous. Is AS better than say Wandy because he is more patient? For anyone who has ever played Socom, Halo, or Gears of War online, the counter strikers are the campers. Its within the rules for sure, but its kind of weasily to always wait for your opponent to make the first move. This is not a troll thread, but I honestly feel a Machida/A. Silva fight (if it ever happened and I know they are friends blah blah blah) would be 5 rounds with like 10 total strikes a round combined. If I had to fight Silva, I would try to get the first punch in and score a point, then just dance and make him come to me. So anyways, is counter striking a kinda cowardly and lame way to fight (when its all you ever do)?[/quote']

 

I half agree with this. My big issue is not so much the counter punchers, but the guys who counter and SWING just 1 crazy baseball KO punch(evans or koscheck standup). Because the opponent can avoid that punch all day long, but they need to get in and fight, so they are lured into the strike zone because of the events set up, but if it were a streetfight, these guys wouldnt even come close to walking into that punch. Theres pressue from the sport and fans to walk into that zone, and sometimes they get KOed when they bring the fight to you.

 

And the guy who sat back and bored you with this disgusting fight, has a KO reel thats insane, but slightly unwarrented. This is just my frustration with these guys coming out. Dont mind me, just another rant for a rant thread.

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It is definitely an effective technique; however' date=' I disagree that Shogun was at fault for "not finishing the fight."

 

Being anymore willing to engage (IE. straight up charging Lyoto) would have gotten him knocked out in my opinion.

.[/quote']

 

That was true in the opening rounds. But in the later rounds he had Machida battered and could have won the fight if he wanted.

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I dont fully agree with OP, but it is kinda lame to never attack your opponent or push the pace so to say. Wrestlers get a lot of heat these days, but at least they go after their opponent and control the fitght. Where a lot of counter strikers just kinda wait, which could lead to nothing happening at all.

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I dont fully agree with OP' date=' but it is kinda lame to never attack your opponent or push the pace so to say. Wrestlers get a lot of heat these days, but at least they go after their opponent and control the fitght. Where a lot of counter strikers just kinda wait, which could lead to nothing happening at all.[/quote']

 

+1 Not totally lame but if you put two counter strikers together it can be a pretty lame fight.

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If i was fighting anderson silva i wouldn't play his stupid game. If he wants to counter every round then I am not going to engage on him first. I dont care if the 5 round match ends where im moving around the octagon (like the houston vs kimbo fight) and him dancing around the ring like a monkey. Sorry countering is a cowardly move and lame imo

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