Disrespecting OUR sport

[britishranger]

Who else is sick of all these former pro athletes coming into our sport to make a fast buck and gain an extra little bit of the spotlight. Ours is the toughest sport in the world yet these has been boxers finish their careers in boxing unable to compete at the highest level only to try and compete in MMA WTF If you cannot compete in Boxing you will be destroyed in the cage and anyone buying into the hype surrounding James Toney should also be ashamed of themselves as they are encouraging more has beens to our sport. Dana White should see the damage its doing to the credibility of our sport and stop trying to get 1 quick piece of media coverage. I know he is trying to sell our sport but to say okay this fighter is 35-36 years old and he cannot compete with the elite in Boxing so we are going to put him into the big show main card right away. He will not have to earn his spurs in MMA he will just step into the octagon to face a former champion on the biggest stage of all and he will earn an obscene amount of money for doing so probably 20x what other pro mma fighters will earn that night. I really hope Randy hurts him badly and finishes him with ground and pound or a choke late in the 1st round to discourage any more of his type thinking that they can step into our octagon for an easy ride

WAR RANDY

[UFCGOD1]

Who else is sick of all these former pro athletes coming into our sport to make a fast buck and gain an extra little bit of the spotlight. Ours is the toughest sport in the world yet these has been boxers finish their careers in boxing unable to compete at the highest level only to try and compete in MMA WTF If you cannot compete in Boxing you will be destroyed in the cage and anyone buying into the hype surrounding James Toney should also be ashamed of themselves as they are encouraging more has beens to our sport. Dana White should see the damage its doing to the credibility of our sport and stop trying to get 1 quick piece of media coverage. I know he is trying to sell our sport but to say okay this fighter is 35-36 years old and he cannot compete with the elite in Boxing so we are going to put him into the big show main card right away. He will not have to earn his spurs in MMA he will just step into the octagon to face a former champion on the biggest stage of all and he will earn an obscene amount of money for doing so probably 20x what other pro mma fighters will earn that night. I really hope Randy hurts him badly and finishes him with ground and pound or a choke late in the 1st round to discourage any more of his type thinking that they can step into our octagon for an easy ride

WAR RANDY

 

 

+ 1 i was disappointed that dana hired than has been , randy by GnP !! just to clarify something toney will not be getting a boxer paycheck at 118 he will even get paid less than randy thats for sure

[britishranger]

What Dana should have done is put the 5ft 9 inch 217 pound Toney in against our very own 6 ft 5 inch 265 pound champion Brock Lesnar in a non title fight just to show him how our heavy weight division stacks up. Why oh why dfid Dana decide to give him a match against a true LHW instead of showing him up for the chump he is and put him in with a true HW.

Tell me this guys how would Toney fair against

Shane Carwin

Frank Mir

Brock Lesnar

Junior Dos Santos

Cheick Kongo

Todd Duffee

Exactly he will have to drop weight and try to get into the LHW division just to stop himself from getting massacred

[britishranger]

+ 1 i was disappointed that dana hired than has been ' date=' randy by GnP !! just to clarify something toney will not be getting a boxer paycheck at 118 he will even get paid less than randy thats for sure[/quote']

 

Yes I know bro but he will still get something in the 6 figure bracket while nearly every other fighter will be getting less then $50,000 with some of the lower fighters receiving as little as $5000. I just think its ****ty when these boys have trained years in MMA and have fought in lots of fights to get where they are while Toney only needs to use his name from Boxing to top a bill at the UFC I just do not see what Dana is doing

[UFCGOD1]

Yes I know bro but he will still get something in the 6 figure bracket while nearly every other fighter will be getting less then $50' date='000 with some of the lower fighters receiving as little as $5000. I just think its ****ty when these boys have trained years in MMA and have fought in lots of fights to get where they are while Toney only needs to use his name from Boxing to top a bill at the UFC I just do not see what Dana is doing[/quote']

 

i have a feeling that toney is gonna get the W :S i mean why put him against a 50 years old LHW !! thats stupid

[lux_glassjaw]

i'm slightly torn on this subject. i think an infusion of pro boxers in a good thing, as it will hopefully strengthen the striking on the rest of the fighters.

 

anytime you look to mainstream something as ecclectic and testosterone driven as mma, you are gonna get a ton of wannabes, and wash ups.

 

i feel, as long as the fighter is serious, they have my respect. lashley seems serious. lesnar, as much as i dont really like the guy, seems serious--in all actuallity, he could have quit and faded into the annals of mma obscurity if he saw fit, but he didnt. brock stuck with it, and i'm eager to see what he does with it.

 

i have more of an issue with "outsiders" and casual fans disrespecting the sport.

[britishranger]

i have a feeling that toney is gonna get the W :S i mean why put him against a 50 years old LHW !! thats stupid

 

I really think that Randy will beat him but I defo know what you are saying when you ask why Dana has chosen to put him in with 47 year old LHW Randy when he could have showed the world that Boxers has beens have no place in our sport by putting him in with a young true HW. Even put in Stefan Struve or someone of that elk and I still think the MMA artist beats the retired boxer everytime Sly Old Dana is up to something me thinks lol

[britishranger]

i'm slightly torn on this subject. i think an infusion of pro boxers in a good thing' date=' as it will hopefully strengthen the striking on the rest of the fighters.

 

anytime you look to mainstream something as ecclectic and testosterone driven as mma, you are gonna get a ton of wannabes, and wash ups.

 

i feel, as long as the fighter is serious, they have my respect. lashley seems serious. lesnar, as much as i dont really like the guy, seems serious--in all actuallity, he could have quit and faded into the annals of mma obscurity if he saw fit, but he didnt. brock stuck with it, and i'm eager to see what he does with it.

 

i have more of an issue with "outsiders" and casual fans disrespecting the sport. [/quote']

 

I don't think you can compare Brock or Bobby with James Toney as they came to MMA in their prime and came from very good wrestling backgrounds. Whereas Toney found he could not compete at the elite end of the boxing world anymore so came to MMA. He must think that MMA is a step below boxing and giving him instant fame in the sport kind of backs his thinking. He should not be seen as a star of MMA until he has earned his stripes and no one should ever be put into a UFC main event on their debut MMA fight as it just belittles all the other fighters acheivements

[MoneyShot7]

Yeah I find it very disrespectful especially when they run their mouth about how they going to beat the champs. I hope Toney actually gets injured broken arm or jaw or fractured cheek something like that.

 

I also think letting people in who have put videos of themselves fighting on youtube is stupid.

[lux_glassjaw]

I don't think you can compare Brock or Bobby with James Toney as they came to MMA in their prime and came from very good wrestling backgrounds. Whereas Toney found he could not compete at the elite end of the boxing world anymore so came to MMA. He must think that MMA is a step below boxing and giving him instant fame in the sport kind of backs his thinking. He should not be seen as a star of MMA until he has earned his stripes and no one should ever be put into a UFC main event on their debut MMA fight as it just belittles all the other fighters acheivements

 

i think that toney is viable, not really as a contender, but as a gatekeeper. mercer took sylvia out in a blink of an eye. with the tiny gloves and technique that a pro boxer--retired, or whathaveyou--is nothing but a good thing in terms of the future of the sport.

 

mma has had ammature boxers, kj noons (i believe) fought in some pro boxing bouts; and now we get some boxers with skill and experience, although not in their prime. hopefully current boxing threats will make their way into the cage. i hope they feel they have something to prove.

 

as far as what the fighters are paid, i have no control over the issue. i understand that you need the money to get the names--just as an example, king mo has stated that he is a "money weight", meaning he fights at the weight that pays the most. the same concept goes for a man like toney, where you have to make it worth him fighting (mercer seems less motivated by money, and more interested in the physical challenge).

 

i understand your frustration; why waste the money on an aged boxer when the same ammount of cash could sustain an up-and-comer for years. it does seem awefully short-sighted.

 

it's kinda like this, dana wants to get the casuals in with a spectacle (see also kimbo), whilst also putting on decent fight-fights for the hardcore. i think at times dana slips up on his priorities, in trying to capture the casual/mainstream fan, and forgets what the hardcore is wanting.

 

either way, progress is always welcome

[Vendur]

You act like Toney is some bum boxer off the street, not a former heavy weight champ. He's a bit old for a fighter of any sport, but so what? Didn't stop randy from doing well in MMA.

[UndisputedKing]

i have a feeling that toney is gonna get the W :S i mean why put him against a 50 years old LHW !! thats stupid

 

Toney is 41 and Randy is 46.... age wise its the perfect match up.

[UndisputedKing]

And every body is saying he should be in with the heavys, when Randy walks around heavier than Toney does!

 

Its a perfect match up! Size and Age wise. Cardio to Randy.

[britishranger]

i think that toney is viable' date=' not really as a contender, but as a gatekeeper. mercer took sylvia out in a blink of an eye. with the tiny gloves and technique that a pro boxer--retired, or whathaveyou--is nothing but a good thing in terms of the future of the sport.

 

mma has had ammature boxers, kj noons (i believe) fought in some pro boxing bouts; and now we get some boxers with skill and experience, although not in their prime. hopefully current boxing threats will make their way into the cage. i hope they feel they have something to prove.

 

as far as what the fighters are paid, i have no control over the issue. i understand that you need the money to get the names--just as an example, king mo has stated that he is a "money weight", meaning he fights at the weight that pays the most. the same concept goes for a man like toney, where you have to make it worth him fighting (mercer seems less motivated by money, and more interested in the physical challenge).

 

i understand your frustration; why waste the money on an aged boxer when the same ammount of cash could sustain an up-and-comer for years. it does seem awefully short-sighted.

 

it's kinda like this, dana wants to get the casuals in with a spectacle (see also kimbo), whilst also putting on decent fight-fights for the hardcore. i think at times dana slips up on his priorities, in trying to capture the casual/mainstream fan, and forgets what the hardcore is wanting.

 

either way, progress is always welcome [/quote']

 

Damn you are an intelligent fellow and this forum needs more folk like you on here.

[britishranger]

And every body is saying he should be in with the heavys' date=' when Randy walks around heavier than Toney does!

 

Its a perfect match up! Size and Age wise. Cardio to Randy.[/quote']

 

 

You do know that Toney is only 5ft 9inches tall dont you as most of our LW division are around that height while the standard size of our HW are 6ft3 thats a massive difference and if you put him in with Stefan Struve it would mean a 1ft 1inch difference in height between the two and that is just silly. What happens when the fight hits the ground and Randy does his little push off elbows that he loves to do

[CavemanJesus]

Who else is sick of all these former pro athletes coming into our sport to make a fast buck and gain an extra little bit of the spotlight. Ours is the toughest sport in the world yet these has been boxers finish their careers in boxing unable to compete at the highest level only to try and compete in MMA WTF If you cannot compete in Boxing you will be destroyed in the cage and anyone buying into the hype surrounding James Toney should also be ashamed of themselves as they are encouraging more has beens to our sport. Dana White should see the damage its doing to the credibility of our sport and stop trying to get 1 quick piece of media coverage. I know he is trying to sell our sport but to say okay this fighter is 35-36 years old and he cannot compete with the elite in Boxing so we are going to put him into the big show main card right away. He will not have to earn his spurs in MMA he will just step into the octagon to face a former champion on the biggest stage of all and he will earn an obscene amount of money for doing so probably 20x what other pro mma fighters will earn that night. I really hope Randy hurts him badly and finishes him with ground and pound or a choke late in the 1st round to discourage any more of his type thinking that they can step into our octagon for an easy ride

WAR RANDY

 

First of all this isnt OUR SPORT' date=' this is an Athlete's sport.

 

All Athletes that want to test themselves both physically & mentally in a combat sport are more than welcomed. Its the true test of combat where you can win/lose at any given time. No one stays unbeaten or uncontested for long.......except if you're Fedor

It dont matter if they come from Football, Pro Wrestling, Baseball, or even Bowling. If wanna fight, put'em up or shut up.........Are you a fighter?

[CKH09]

Oh god! More hating on boxing. Who cares, boxers wouldn't whine if an mma guy came over to boxing. He's not hurting anything and has a better fighting background than 90% of the other guys that come in to the ufc. I agree if they're just in it for money, thats weak. But, who's to say that the guy doesn't just want to fight and try something new. All I'm saying is give the guy a shot, if he comes in and gets beat up then so be it. Not much different than when Lesnar came to the ufc, imo.

[CKH09]

Also, anybody that watches boxing knows, that James Toney is a very dangerous man and if Randy stands with him for more than a minute he will get put to sleep and it will be very ugly. I'm not sure what Toney's ground skill are like or if the exist so, if Randy takes him down the fight may be over for Toney too. Will at the very least be interesting.

[UndisputedKing]

You do know that Toney is only 5ft 9inches tall dont you as most of our LW division are around that height while the standard size of our HW are 6ft3 thats a massive difference and if you put him in with Stefan Struve it would mean a 1ft 1inch difference in height between the two and that is just silly. What happens when the fight hits the ground and Randy does his little push off elbows that he loves to do

 

What are you talking about?

 

Im not the one saying he should be a HW. I'm saying its dumb that people are saying he should be there...

[Kristufa]

Are you kidding?

It's called the ultimate testing ground for a reason.

If a fighter wants to test themself on the ultimate proving ground, so be it.

[CKH09]

i think that toney is viable' date=' not really as a contender, but as a gatekeeper. mercer took sylvia out in a blink of an eye. with the tiny gloves and technique that a pro boxer--retired, or whathaveyou--is nothing but a good thing in terms of the future of the sport.

 

mma has had ammature boxers, kj noons (i believe) fought in some pro boxing bouts; and now we get some boxers with skill and experience, although not in their prime. hopefully current boxing threats will make their way into the cage. i hope they feel they have something to prove.

 

as far as what the fighters are paid, i have no control over the issue. i understand that you need the money to get the names--just as an example, king mo has stated that he is a "money weight", meaning he fights at the weight that pays the most. the same concept goes for a man like toney, where you have to make it worth him fighting (mercer seems less motivated by money, and more interested in the physical challenge).

 

i understand your frustration; why waste the money on an aged boxer when the same ammount of cash could sustain an up-and-comer for years. it does seem awefully short-sighted.

 

it's kinda like this, dana wants to get the casuals in with a spectacle (see also kimbo), whilst also putting on decent fight-fights for the hardcore. i think at times dana slips up on his priorities, in trying to capture the casual/mainstream fan, and forgets what the hardcore is wanting.

 

either way, progress is always welcome [/quote']

 

I believe Anderson Silva has fought 3 or 4 pro boxing matches too and Marcus Davis. I think it can help the sport if, like you said earlier, they are taking it serious. And trust me, James Toney has no intention of going in there and embarassing himself. If it works, it will be great for the sport, if not, oh well. Sadly, mma will never get a pro boxer in his prime because they make so much more money than mma fighters so, there is obviously no reason to do it.

[Mikmania]

Toney loses 2nd round tko

[Exodus9mm]

Couture better shoot early and not even attempt to trade punches with Toney.

 

I love how nobody gives Toney a chance, even though he's a 6 weight former champion. Sure he's been outta the boxing game for awhile, but how is his standup capability not better than most HW's in the division (hands at least)? Junior Dos Santos has shown nothing but boxing skills in all of his UFC fights, and yet he's a top-ranked contender. Don't get me wrong, Cigano is a personal fav.....just saying.

 

If Randy gets Toney to the ground, Toney is done for, no questions.....but if the fight stays on the feet for any length of time, Couture is going night night.

[shakey79]

there is no doubt toney has power in his hands which alone makes him dangerous, but to start him off as main event makes me think something is up, maybe dana knows something we don't!!!!

[Mikmania]

there is no doubt toney has power in his hands which alone makes him dangerous' date=' but to start him off as main event makes me think something is up, maybe dana knows something we don't!!!![/quote']

 

are you thinking Toney by Kimura???

[slapped_meat]

First of all this isnt OUR SPORT' date=' this is an Athlete's sport.

 

All Athletes that want to test themselves both physically & mentally in a combat sport are more than welcomed. Its the true test of combat where you can win/lose at any given time. No one stays unbeaten or uncontested for long.......except if you're Fedor

It dont matter if they come from Football, Pro Wrestling, Baseball, or even Bowling. If wanna fight, put'em up or shut up.........Are you a fighter?

 

so true..i dont know why people cant just sit back and enjoy it. if toney has made a mistake he'll find it out. Plus people dont know how long toney has trained mma before this fight, he might have done martial arts for years but was just so good at boxing he chose to do it pro. I'm open minded and will just look forward to it. This 'our sport' things is silly...all we do is watch it.

[slapped_meat]

Couture better shoot early and not even attempt to trade punches with Toney.

 

I love how nobody gives Toney a chance' date=' even though he's a 6 weight former champion. Sure he's been outta the boxing game for awhile, but how is his standup capability not better than most HW's in the division (hands at least)? Junior Dos Santos has shown nothing but boxing skills in all of his UFC fights, and yet he's a top-ranked contender. Don't get me wrong, Cigano is a personal fav.....just saying.

 

If Randy gets Toney to the ground, Toney is done for, no questions.....but if the fight stays on the feet for any length of time, Couture is going night night.[/quote']

 

exactley, i love it when people say about gsp and his takedowns...'if he takes you down you're done for' it's pretty true but then they dont want to concede that if you stand with toney you're done for..works both ways...there is no better striker than toney in the UFC...good strikers yes but seriously nobody is better. (until they prove otherwise) but you dont have a boxing career like toneys by not being great at it

[Mikmania]

so true..i dont know why people cant just sit back and enjoy it. if toney has made a mistake he'll find it out. Plus people dont know how long toney has trained mma before this fight' date=' he might have done martial arts for years but was just so good at boxing he chose to do it pro. I'm open minded and will just look forward to it. This 'our sport' things is silly...all we do is watch it.[/quote']

 

you make solid points

[Mikmania]

exactley' date=' i love it when people say about gsp and his takedowns...'if he takes you down you're done for' it's pretty true but then they dont want to concede that if you stand with toney you're done for..works both ways...there is no better striker than toney in the UFC...good strikers yes but seriously nobody is better. (until they prove otherwise) but you dont have a boxing career like toneys by not being great at it[/quote']

 

what's your prediction for the fight then?

[slapped_meat]

what's your prediction for the fight then?

 

if randy can get it to the matt i'd have to say he'll win, i dont know about what toneys ground game is like. If he dirty boxes against the cage it'll be hard to see..toney is short..short solid arms can generate huge power in short range so tying him up could prove hard...if its straight stand up i'd have to give it to toney as a former pro boxer. It will be inetersesting to see, i think thats some of the reason the match up has been made.

[shakey79]

are you thinking Toney by Kimura???

 

haha i wouldn't go that far,but maybe he's actually got a takedown defence or something along those lines??

[slapped_meat]

haha i wouldn't go that far' date='but maybe he's actually got a takedown defence or something along those lines??[/quote']

 

i would have thought toney has some background somewhere along the lines and will be as prepared as he can be. He may be arrogant and all that but at the end he's a pro athlete and i doubt he thinks he'll just walk through randy.

[Mikmania]

should be a fun fight to see then

[Future_Champ]

Toney should have been thrown in the cage with Junior Dos Santos so people can realize MMA striking and Boxing are two very different forms of stand up and theres a big difference.The smaller gloves , the cage , the ability to throw kicks, knees, elbows, takedowns changes everything, Theres a different type of movement these MMA fighters have its just not so simple to say a Boxer would kill a MMA fight standing.... I mean a boxer would kill a MMA fighter in Boxing but thats very different. I think if Toney fought Junior Dos Santos , Toney would be knocked out in the very first round by dominating fashion and it would just add credit to our sport, people will make excuses when Randy takes Toney down saying "see your legend of the sport is scared to stand with a fat washed up boxer" and all that crap , Just an idea i even think Cheik Kongo would beat Toney up standing...... Any my two thoughts.

 

 

Take Care

[undisputed_rush]

Gives our fighters more recognition when they win so let them come

[Tim_A]

Who else is sick of all these former pro athletes coming into our sport to make a fast buck and gain an extra little bit of the spotlight. Ours is the toughest sport in the world yet these has been boxers finish their careers in boxing unable to compete at the highest level only to try and compete in MMA WTF If you cannot compete in Boxing you will be destroyed in the cage and anyone buying into the hype surrounding James Toney should also be ashamed of themselves as they are encouraging more has beens to our sport. Dana White should see the damage its doing to the credibility of our sport and stop trying to get 1 quick piece of media coverage. I know he is trying to sell our sport but to say okay this fighter is 35-36 years old and he cannot compete with the elite in Boxing so we are going to put him into the big show main card right away. He will not have to earn his spurs in MMA he will just step into the octagon to face a former champion on the biggest stage of all and he will earn an obscene amount of money for doing so probably 20x what other pro mma fighters will earn that night. I really hope Randy hurts him badly and finishes him with ground and pound or a choke late in the 1st round to discourage any more of his type thinking that they can step into our octagon for an easy ride

WAR RANDY

 

GET OVER YOURSELF.

 

There is nothing disrespectful about a great athlete changing sports. If anything its a sign of MORE respect that they would rather take a pay cut and do MMA then stick with thier sissy sport.

 

You have no idea how long he has been thinking about this or training. For most of the last 20 years MMA paid exactly jack ****. So top athletes and fighters went to other sports. The pay scale is finally starting to level out so some of those people are coming over into MMA. Deal with it.

[UndisputedKing]

Toney should have been thrown in the cage with Junior Dos Santos so people can realize MMA striking and Boxing are two very different forms of stand up and theres a big difference.The smaller gloves ' date=' the cage , the ability to throw kicks, knees, elbows, takedowns changes everything, Theres a different type of movement these MMA fighters have its just not so simple to say a Boxer would kill a MMA fight standing.... I mean a boxer would kill a MMA fighter in Boxing but thats very different. I think if Toney fought Junior Dos Santos , Toney would be knocked out in the very first round by dominating fashion and it would just add credit to our sport, people will make excuses when Randy takes Toney down saying "see your legend of the sport is scared to stand with a fat washed up boxer" and all that crap , Just an idea i even think Cheik Kongo would beat Toney up standing...... Any my two thoughts.

 

 

Take Care[/quote']

 

 

 

WOW...5'9" 205lb Tone vs. 6'4" 240lb JDS... Ya thats a fair fight.

[pistolfli]

I Have no problem with atheletes from other sports coming in and trying to prove themselves in mma (more big names = more recognition for the sport), the biggest problem with respect in mma is when fans start booing cos a fight goes to ground, but i guess the bought the ticket so they can do what they want.

[e_r_i_k]

Yes I know bro but he will still get something in the 6 figure bracket while nearly every other fighter will be getting less then $50' date='000 with some of the lower fighters receiving as little as $5000. I just think its ****ty when these boys have trained years in MMA and have fought in lots of fights to get where they are while Toney only needs to use his name from Boxing to top a bill at the UFC I just do not see what Dana is doing[/quote']

 

i agree

but i'd rather it be toney who came from a "real" combat sport

unlike our soon to be defunct HW champ

[Muay_Thai_Leeds]

Who else is sick of all these former pro athletes coming into our sport to make a fast buck and gain an extra little bit of the spotlight. Ours is the toughest sport in the world yet these has been boxers finish their careers in boxing unable to compete at the highest level only to try and compete in MMA WTF If you cannot compete in Boxing you will be destroyed in the cage and anyone buying into the hype surrounding James Toney should also be ashamed of themselves as they are encouraging more has beens to our sport. Dana White should see the damage its doing to the credibility of our sport and stop trying to get 1 quick piece of media coverage. I know he is trying to sell our sport but to say okay this fighter is 35-36 years old and he cannot compete with the elite in Boxing so we are going to put him into the big show main card right away. He will not have to earn his spurs in MMA he will just step into the octagon to face a former champion on the biggest stage of all and he will earn an obscene amount of money for doing so probably 20x what other pro mma fighters will earn that night. I really hope Randy hurts him badly and finishes him with ground and pound or a choke late in the 1st round to discourage any more of his type thinking that they can step into our octagon for an easy ride

 

I like you Ranger but you do talk sh*t. Dana and a lot of MMA fans have been dying for a top class boxer to come into the UFC so we can actually get a comparison and credit to Toney for taking up the chance because no other boxers were about to.

 

You forget where MMA all started - Most fighters in the UFC are masters of 1 dicipline and learn others to be able to compete, and there are still fairly unskilled MMAist that are making a decent living out of the sport - but just because they have been training for years they are okay??

[ImTheBest]

Who else is sick of all these former pro athletes coming into our sport to make a fast buck and gain an extra little bit of the spotlight.

 

thats doent bother me and no its not to make a fast bulk prowrestlers heh SADLY make so much more than real fighters, prowrestlers make millions a year when top notch contenders are lucky to break 300-400k a year,

 

i dont care if the want to step it up and do real fighting i just want them to leave this acting BS and their WWE wrestling entrances in the WWE not in mma thats my main complain about brock, i mean look at the way he entered the fight vs hearing. i wanted to hit him in the face with a baseball bat so hard....